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« Cards Turning Page On Fuentes? | Main | A's To Talk Contract With Giambi Soon »
Furcal Signs With Dodgers
FRIDAY, 8:37pm: The Furcal deal is official. Jesse Spector has quotes from the conference call.
WEDNESDAY, 9:08pm: Just to keep this baby going, we have the contract numbers from Tony Jackson. A backloaded three years, $30MM, $3MM of which is a bonus at the end of the contract. The 2012 option for $13MM does vest with 600 PAs in '11.
8:23pm: The deal may be done, but we still can't get the numbers nailed down. According to Tim Brown's writethru, it could be either $33MM or $30MM. Brown has "a Dodgers source" who says it's the latter "and includes a fourth-year option for $12 million, vesting with 600 plate appearances in the third year. Other incentives could bring the total worth of the deal to about $45 million." The AP report (below) that gave the $33MM figure had quoted " a person familiar with the negotiations."
7:43pm: This MLB.com report from Ken Gurnick says "it is believed the deal is pending the passing of a physical exam." That's probably about as final as we're going to get for now. It's worth noting that a little bit earlier, Tony Jackson talked to Kinzer, who said such a statement would be premature. (The Dodgers, like most teams, don't confirm deals until after the physical.)
7:08pm: The AP says the final numbers on the contract are 3 years, $33MM:
Furcal gets $7.5 million next season, $9.5 million in 2010 and $13 million in 2011. The deal includes a $13 million team option for 2012 with a $3 million buyout.
7:02pm: This wire report from CBSSports.com has a quote from Kinzer:
"They know we didn't have a signed contract, that we didn't have even a verbal agreement. We had, 'Things look very good and Raffy's going to sleep on it,'" Kinzer said after a news conference for another client, Francisco Rodriguez.
5:53pm: Rosenthal has updated his post with a bit more info and a timeline from Wren. Around midnight on Monday, after much negotiating, Kinzer told Wren, "we're good." Tuesday morning, says Rosenthal (note the slight discrepancy from Brown's report below), Wren "got a voicemail from Kinzer" asking for the term sheet to be put together and faxed to him, which Wren did. "Shortly thereafter, Kinzer began 'backpedaling,' saying he promised the Dodgers he would talk to them." And on Tuesday, the Dodgers "suddenly" appeared willing to grant Furcal a third year -- and today, the Braves were told that Furcal would not be joining them.
5:43pm: Tim Brown reports that the Braves had sent Furcal a signed term sheet, according to "a club source." Monday night, Kinzer asked for the paperwork to be faxed to him. Braves GM Frank Wren complied Tuesday morning. Writes Brown:
No member of the Braves’ front office – not Wren, not longtime former GM John Schuerholz – could recall a time when a signed term sheet was not the equivalent of a handshake agreement, ethically – if not legally – binding.
Brown adds that the Braves believe Kinzer shopped the term sheet to the Dodgers, who had been reluctant to commit to a third year.
4:47pm: The latest from Rosenthal:
The Dodgers and Furcal were still hammering out an agreement Wednesday afternoon, sources said, but the Braves had been informed that Furcal would not accept their deal.
4:10pm: Ken Rosenthal says Furcal decided to sign with the Dodgers.
Mark Bowman's latest doesn't suggest Furcal made a decision, but he does explain why the Braves thought they had a deal. Bowman's source believes the Dodgers offered three years plus a fourth-year player option.
11:48am: Yahoo's Tim Brown: Furcal is "nearing an agreement with the Dodgers." Joel Sherman learned from Kinzer that the Dodgers are in the lead, having matched the Braves' three-year, $30MM (plus a fourth-year vesting option) offer. Paul Kinzer told Sherman the idea of switching to second base for the Braves gave Furcal pause.
Kinzer told Danny Knobler there was never a verbal agreement with the Braves. Kinzer lives in Atlanta and received 50 phone calls from fans after the story broke yesterday.
9:39am: Yesterday we watched as Rafael Furcal and his agents seemingly ignored a gentleman's agreement with the Braves to continue negotiating with the Dodgers. Dylan Hernandez of the L.A. Times learned from Ned Colletti that the Dodgers improved their offer to Furcal (the original was two years with a vesting option).
According to Buster Olney, the Braves offered three years, $30MM with a vesting option for the fourth year. Olney says the A's were at $38MM guaranteed over four years.
Sarah Green also contributed to this post.
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"And I think his point was the DIFFERENCE between Peavy and Vazquez (when contracts are considered as well) isn't worth Escobar and another prospect, not that Peavy isn't worth Escobar and a prospect."
That was my initial point, yes. :)
However...
"I guess you should be happy with mediocrity Melonis Rex...and to say Peavy is worth Esobar and one prospect you are nuts !"
Escobar is an above average SS; actually, when taking into account offense AND defense, the only better ones are Rollins, Reyes, Hanley, Hardy, Tulo, and Jeter(defense is bad though). And all but Hardy are very unavailable. He's underrated like crazy b/c he's in the same division as elite SSs named Rollins, Reyes, and Hanley.
Escobar: 5 years, 2 of them at league minimum, the other 3 at arbitration rates. Let's say he makes 20MM total over his 3 arb years. So, you pretty much have him at 5/21MM.
Peavy: 4yr/63MM, or if his option is guaranteed, 5yr/85MM. Yes, he's one of the best pitchers in the game right now. He will net less than Haren did because of his contract status though.
If the deal is Escobar + Gorkys/Rohrborough for Peavy, that's a very fair deal for both sides.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 01:25 PM
And yes, I put a lot of emphasis on team control and pre-arb status. Flame all you want.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 01:28 PM
Kinzer is starting to act worse then Boras.
Posted by: BravesRed | December 17, 2008 at 01:31 PM
Greed will make you Bleed!
Furcal good luck with your back but if you pull this stunt If I were the BRAVES I would give you the time of day from this day forward. There are some ruthless agents out there and it sounds to me like they used the Braves to get the Dodgers to negotiate.
Posted by: Cobra09 | December 17, 2008 at 01:41 PM
As a braves fan, I could care less if Furcal signs with us. Yes it would be nice to fill the leadoff hitter role which we haven't had since he left, but paying that much money for a 2B that is injury prone, doesn't make me over joyed. Why is everyone so in love with Kelly Johnson? When has he ever come up and gotten a big hit when you needed it. Also his defense is mediocre at best. Trade him for a LF/SP and move Prado into 2B. His offensive production and ability to play other positions make him as if not more valuable than KJ. As for everyone crying about what has happened, get over it. Has this offseason taught you nothing? I agree it seems like a classless move but who cares what any of us think. It is his agents job to get him the best deal possible for that player. As somebody previously stated, I miss john schuerholz.
Posted by: lueds20 | December 17, 2008 at 01:42 PM
well all I can say is that I wish the Braves would tell Furcal to stick it! Go out and find someone who will come to Atlanta and get them.
I heard Frank Wren is going to be on a talk show this afternoon on 105.5 Macon Georgia with host Bill Shanks.
Posted by: Cobra09 | December 17, 2008 at 01:49 PM
Good stuff, melonis rex.
Posted by: Smoltz's Beard | December 17, 2008 at 01:53 PM
Lueds20...if you really want to play the "obscure moment when player X impressed/didn't impress me" game how about the game when Kelly hit two bombs against the Mets? Pretty sure one of them was the go ahead run. And if I'm not mistaken there was another game where he came off the bench and hit a pinch-hit grand slam to go ahead in the game (not trying to make fun of Mets fans, just making a point).
His defense is average at 2B, true, but it's better than Prado's according to +/-. And what does it matter that Prado can play more positions? If we were to trade KJ the only position Prado would be playing is 2B. If you're willing to hand over the starting 2B job to Prado after 250 PAs of stats inflated by a .357 BABIP you're in for a rude awakening.
Posted by: Smoltz's Beard | December 17, 2008 at 02:05 PM
It's a done deal...Furcal 4/80 million to the Yankees...He will play CF and setup for Mo' in the 8th innings...
Posted by: bartendermlb | December 17, 2008 at 02:05 PM
"It's a done deal...Furcal 4/80 million to the Yankees...He will play CF and setup for Mo' in the 8th innings..."
No, its 5/82.5. He'll play third, and they'll bench A-Rod.
Posted by: BravesRed | December 17, 2008 at 02:10 PM
"am i the only F$@#%(* professional here?!?!"
haha. no worries, phils.
Posted by: mr.pink | December 17, 2008 at 02:13 PM
Wow, if getting a DUI right before the playoffs didn't endear him to the Braves nation, this slap in the face surely will.
Maybe he has mad cow .....
Posted by: ChillyMutt | December 17, 2008 at 02:17 PM
As a dodgers fan I kinda feel like a couple of the braves commenters about not really needing him, but it would be nice to have him so they can do other things. Hopefully Furcal stops acting like a primadonna and signs somewhere so the two teams (and fans) can move on with their offseasons
Re: Peavy
The San Diego payroll still has to be lowered, and If you believe Alderson when he says Peavy is unlikely to be traded then you've gotta think that Giles (esp in light of the ugly skeletons coming out of his closet) is going to have to be traded to lower payroll. He's the only one left that makes money, right? Pads are going to be a weird looking team next season.
Posted by: Garrett | December 17, 2008 at 02:18 PM
Kinzer lives in ATL? Man, it would really suck to be him if Furcal inks with the Dodgers. Maybe he should think about moving to LA, cause if that happens I doubt his neighbors will still like him.
Posted by: Drew | December 17, 2008 at 02:18 PM
"Why is everyone so in love with Kelly Johnson? When has he ever come up and gotten a big hit when you needed it. Also his defense is mediocre at best. Trade him for a LF/SP and move Prado into 2B."
Oh please stop with the clutch argument. He's a good hitter, period, especially for the 2B position. Look at the numbers. Oh. Martin Prado's offensive season was a fluke. If anything, the Braves might be smart to sell high on him. If the Braves are concerned with KJ's defense, trade him for a LF/SP, don't move him to LF and kill his value.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 02:18 PM
Smoltz's Beard- Thank you. Oh, I dig the username.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 02:20 PM
wtf wtf wtf wtf hate paul kinzer. wtf wtf wtf how come we're not in on lowe. wtf wtf wtf or sheets. wtf wtf wtf 45 mill. to spend and nothing to show for it. WTF
Posted by: OklahomaBrave | December 17, 2008 at 02:39 PM
How would moving KJ to LF kill his value? The positional adjustment from 2B to LF is 0.5 WAR, which means KJ would only have to be about 5 runs better in LF defensively to maintain his value, and he will probably be at least 10 runs better...
Posted by: iamnobody | December 17, 2008 at 02:43 PM
"How would moving KJ to LF kill his value? The positional adjustment from 2B to LF is 0.5 WAR, which means KJ would only have to be about 5 runs better in LF defensively to maintain his value, and he will probably be at least 10 runs better..."
Yeah, you're right on that one. Then don't trade KJ. Just move him to LF if the Braves absolutely have to move him.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 02:48 PM
iamnobody...you're a little off, and the only reason I even know that is because I was just having a discussion with someone on another site about it.
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/complete_war_2008/
+0.25 2B/3B/CF
-0.75 LF/RF
Posted by: Smoltz's Beard | December 17, 2008 at 02:50 PM
Ah, thanks, much closer in that case.
Posted by: iamnobody | December 17, 2008 at 02:52 PM
Furcal should play in LA for free for getting paid to be hurt for so long.
Posted by: Adam Guyot | December 17, 2008 at 02:53 PM
If you equate a win to 10 runs, if KJ is 10 runs better in LF than he is at 2B, he'd break even on the value scale when putting in positional adjustments then.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 02:57 PM
If he goes back to the dodgers, he and kinzer should be looking into selling their atlanta homes
Posted by: bravesfan22193 | December 17, 2008 at 03:25 PM
This situation is killing me....just tell me already...so I can go on dreaming the Braves will win more games this year...
Posted by: bartendermlb | December 17, 2008 at 03:47 PM
Cobrasnake,
Yes, I agree that the possibility of Furcal playing 2B probably did not appeal to him. Same reason why he didn't seriously entertain playing 2B for the Mets.
But I also think, at the end of the day, he wanted to stay in L.A. if they were willing to match the best deal.
The Dodgers were not willing to go 4yrs/$40 mill like the A's. But Raffy didn't really want to play there.
The Dodgers MAY have been willing to do the 3yrs/$30 mill OR they may have offered something like 2yrs + 1yr vesting option that could average $13 mill a year if he stays healthy. That would allow Furcal to make more than the Braves' guaranteed $30 mill as long as he's healthy.
We'll just have to see when the contract is signed.
Posted by: Die-Hard Dodger Fan | December 17, 2008 at 03:50 PM
The Braves should take the money sign Colon, Wolf and Smoltz. or look into Sheets and Smoltz...
Posted by: bartendermlb | December 17, 2008 at 03:55 PM
I don't buy this Dodger signing until its official....
I like Colon, Sheets, and Smoltz better than Colon, Wolf, and Smoltz, btw.
Posted by: melonis rex | December 17, 2008 at 04:13 PM
Good, hope this whole mess is finally over. The signing never really made since to me unless they did indeed trade kelly or yunel, which supposedly was not thier plan. Moving kelly to left did nothing for the braves in 2009. It didnt put the right handed bat between chipper and mac, and i dont want to trade yunel or kelly unless we get an ace in return, and with wren unwilling to restart the peavy negotiations and grienking not seeming to be available this seemed unlikely. I would like to see the braves sign sheets and burrell and if they have enough money resign smoltz, if not resign ohman. Then trade french for maholm and try to sign thames to play right if not jus march brandon jones out there or something...
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 04:18 PM
So that means he's a Brave, right?
Posted by: daslied | December 17, 2008 at 04:19 PM
No, he's clearly a Baltimore Oriole.
Posted by: FineHamAbounds | December 17, 2008 at 04:21 PM
Man, Furcal did the Braves dirty
Posted by: YankFan408 | December 17, 2008 at 04:22 PM
rosenthal's reporting it... since he's almost never right about anything he reports, this must mean furcal is really going to atlanta...
:-X
Posted by: dodgrdog88 | December 17, 2008 at 04:22 PM
"KEn Rosenthal reports..." should be followed by a caveat emptor every time. Seriously, after all the misreporting on the Furcal Saga, you'd think Rosenthal would WAIT til he had official confirmation, or at least something more than anonymous sources. Wasn't everyone burned on that 2 days ago? Guess he doesn't care.
I care though -- wake me when it's official.
Sorry, Braves fans, if true. (But as an LA fan I'm happy. This would prevent NedCo from signing Orlando Cabrera or something else stupid.)
Posted by: Craig Phillips | December 17, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Furcal has hit over 600 PAs every year since '01 with the exception of this one season. Whichever team got him would have made themselves significantly better. Tell me, you have been an SS your whole career, would you go to the team offering more years, your good position and the same amount of money, or to the team that is offering you to move positions, one less year, and will be in a much tougher division...hmmm..
Posted by: B3NG4L | December 17, 2008 at 04:26 PM
I just got major news from a source. A major highway is shut down in LA, so Furcal can't sign with the Dodgers.
Posted by: BravesRed | December 17, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Adam, are you an eleven year old, or do you just post comments like one?
Posted by: Craig Phillips | December 17, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Good riddance. Escobar is better, younger, cheaper, and healthier than him anyway.
Posted by: Ron Edwards | December 17, 2008 at 04:28 PM
f*ck you to furcal
Posted by: kcbraves7 | December 17, 2008 at 04:29 PM
"Whichever team got him would have made themselves significantly better"
I honestly dont think getting him would have made the braves significantly better. Even with furcal in the lineup there is no power in that line up. They would be MUCH better signing burrell to play left and keeping kelly at 2nd.
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 04:30 PM
I am glad this saga has ended.
Posted by: OmegaMan | December 17, 2008 at 04:32 PM
I think the Atlanta Journal Const. got a little carried away initially.
According to Kinzer, he never told the Braves that they had any agreement, "gentelman's" or otherwise.
Sounds like that someone in Braves management got a little too optimistic w/negotiations w/Furcal and leaked bad info to the press.
Personally, I always felt that Raffy wanted to stay in LA. Sure, he may not have wanted to play 2B but I also think Raffy was going to give the Dodgers a last chance to match the Braves' offer or at least sweeten their own offer.
When Colleti saw the legit best offer out there for Raffy, he just put together a deal that was either better or close enough to make Raffy come back to LA.
Raffy is loved in LA, he loves living in LA and he gets to be the catalyst on a contender. Its not hard to see why he chose to re-sign.
IMO, he was only leaving if a team like the A's, Royals or Braves overpaid significantly for him, which none of them did in this market.
As long as the terms are reasonable, its a good signing for the best free agent SS out there and, best of all, doesn't cost us our 17th pick which is what Orlando Cabrera would have done.
Posted by: Die-Hard Dodger Fan | December 17, 2008 at 04:34 PM
I used to have respect for this piece of crap but not now. When you have an agreement with a team and you back out it makes you a straight up jerk
Posted by: jonathon | December 17, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Next headlines:
"Atlanta GM Frank Wren's head explodes."
"Wren invites Kinzer, Towers and Braunecker to Atlanta via private jet."
"Bonds says 'No thanks' to Bravos."
"Glavine claims to have never left Mets."
I'm so happy I can't stop crying.
Posted by: daslied | December 17, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Really don't like the way this has been played out. Furcal wanted to be a Dodger, but he wanted four years, so he went out and shopped around, basically extorting the Dodgers to meet his demands, even though that's where he wanted to end up at anyway. A-hole.
Posted by: Grizzlyfox | December 17, 2008 at 04:34 PM
So...are we sure about this now? I mean, is there a signed contract, a physical scheduled, agreement from both sides, anything definitive??
Posted by: rememberthecoop | December 17, 2008 at 04:35 PM
"""But as an LA fan I'm happy. This would prevent NedCo from signing Orlando Cabrera or something else stupid."""
Scared of NedCo signing Cabrera! Come on, this is Ned Colletti we are talking about!... Frankly, I was scared he'd sign Omar Vizquel to some multi-million, multi-year deal!
Posted by: DodgersLBC | December 17, 2008 at 04:38 PM
As a long time Braves fan and baseball fan, I can't remember one team having such an unlucky season (Braves players missed more games due to injury than any other team) followed by such an unlucky offseason (Peavy, Burnett, Furcal). If there's any justice in this world, Peavy, Burnett, and Furcal's arms will fall off during spring training.
Posted by: fuzbal | December 17, 2008 at 04:40 PM
I love how people who have no actual proof as to WHAT went down -- did he for a fact say "I'm signing with Atlanta?" or did it get miscommunicated? And if people were mislead, isn't it more likely it's his agents who played everyone off each other? It's find if people want to be mad at him or bitter or whatever, but to be commenting on something based on rumor and supposition is a waste of time.
The only thing we know - if we even know this much- is that he needed time to think about it, had second thoughts about having to play second in Atlanta, and wanted all the information before making a decision. Do any of us know for a fact what was said, when, and how? No, we don't.
Posted by: Craig Phillips | December 17, 2008 at 04:41 PM
whoooo furcal is back in blue!!!
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | December 17, 2008 at 04:42 PM
Btw, tim, just a suggestion, but given how the last two days have played out, and it's only Ken Rosenthal so far reporting this, might be good to change this subject header at least for now to "Furcal Chooses Dodgers - Maybe" or something less definitive. ;-)
Posted by: Craig Phillips | December 17, 2008 at 04:44 PM
I think we still need to wait for someone other than Rosenthal to verify this.
So you have to excuse me before I give any final analysis of the deal until its actually verified and terms are laid out there.
Posted by: Die-Hard Dodger Fan | December 17, 2008 at 04:48 PM
"It's find if people want to be mad at him or bitter or whatever, but to be commenting on something based on rumor and supposition is a waste of time."
This site is called mlbtraderumors.com. It probably wouldn't exist without rumor and supposition. Thanks for wasting your time with us.
Regarding Furcal, I do agree with Grizzlyfox that this seems odd. It seems like he used his affinity for Bobby Cox and Atlanta in order to squeeze L.A. for more money and an extra year. Totally Bush league if that's the case.
Posted by: fuzbal | December 17, 2008 at 04:50 PM
The Dodgers now have the infield set... I think the best bet would be to take the $25M per year they have marked for Manny and split it between Sheets and Dunn. And then maybe call up Towers and see if they can come up with a reasonable package for Peavy that included Hu.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 04:53 PM
I don't know how it is "bushleague". Sounds like business to me. When has a player not tried to give himself some leverage when negotiating a contract?
Posted by: dusto | December 17, 2008 at 04:54 PM
i'm enjoying reading all this hate towards furcal from braves fans.
i'm still not convinced he's agreed to play in L.A. again just yet. i learned to never believe the media until the team is holding a press conference to announce a signing. (i learned my lesson three years ago when i believed the media after they reported the dodgers had traded for tim hudson from oakland).
somehow a report in the middle of the night tuesday morning came out that he was leaning towards the braves, and someone ran with the story as if he had agreed to a deal in atlanta. next thing you know, every national and atlanta media outlet had furcal in atlanta today for a physical.
if you braves fans want a scapegoat in all this, blame the media (or the two braves front office people who probably had no business speaking to the media about any of these negotiations, and jumped the gun on it), not the player. people tend to believe everything they read on the internet and papers, and hear everything they see on TV, as the concrete truth before the team or player ever acknowledge it.
Posted by: dodgrdog88 | December 17, 2008 at 04:55 PM
I don't want Peavy or Sheets. Sheets is just another Jason Schmidt. I want someone who can earn his money.
Posted by: dusto | December 17, 2008 at 04:55 PM
lol, i could care less if furcal choose the braves or dodgers....but i do not believe ken rosenthal anymore, I have to hear it from a better source. rosenthal is not reliable any more.
Posted by: da510nica | December 17, 2008 at 04:56 PM
this is why u cant trust a convict with a "gentlemens agreement". too funny. its great to see that no one wants to go to atlanta. gunna have to start overspending like the yankees since no one wants to go there anymore either
Posted by: kevinhendrix9 | December 17, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Sheets is injury prone. Id rather them sign Manny, Pettite and Garland.
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | December 17, 2008 at 04:57 PM
"I don't want Peavy or Sheets. Sheets is just another Jason Schmidt. I want someone who can earn his money."
Sheets had a 139 ERA+. He's 29. If anything, I'd compare him more the Pedro with the Red Sox (obviously not as good) than Schmidt. Sheets needs to take his annual DL trip, yes. But he's an ACE when healthy. He's 10 times the pitcher AJ Burnett is. And with the Dodgers depth as SP with McDonald and Stults, they can afford an August DL trip each year for the next 3 years.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 05:02 PM
"Sheets is injury prone. Id rather them sign Manny, Pettite and Garland."
So instead of signing the great pitcher who is 29 who will give you 160 innings of dominance, you'd rather have 2 pitchers who will give you 400 innings of crap? That's dumb.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 05:06 PM
WOW PROSPECTS WIN WORLD SERIES DONT THEY. NO ACTUALLY THEY DONT OR THE DODGERS WOULD BE WINNING THEM EVERY YEAR. YOU SURE HAVE A BRIGHT FUTURE WHEN NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN WITH YOUR TEAM FROM THAT GOD AWFUL SMELL WREN SPEWS. REGARDLESS YOU WONT WIN IN YOUR DIVISION FOR YEARS TO COME. THAT IS BLEAK
Posted by: MattsdodgersSD | December 17, 2008 at 05:07 PM
Frank Wren just did an interview on Bill Shank's radio show. He said there was an agreement Monday night and Kinzer requested a terms sheet. The Braves faxed it over and it was never signed. Next thing they knew the Dodgers are back in it. So its basically who do you believe, the Braves or Furcals people.
Posted by: tsweet9000 | December 17, 2008 at 05:07 PM
As a braves fan, All braves fans need to take off the blinders and look at this offseason not for who we are in 2009 but in the years to come. While wren did get caught with his pants down on this furcal deal, he needs to be commended for deals he hasnt made. In a few years when schafer, hanson, heyward, and freeman come up with yunel STILL at SS is when they braves will prosper again. Also, adding a SP and a LF along with smoltz will end up being a good offseason without overspending or losing loads of prospects (so far only Flowers)
Posted by: lueds20 | December 17, 2008 at 05:08 PM
Craig Phillips,
From O'Brien's AJC blog, a poster who heard an interview on an Atlanta talk show today took these notes:
*Wren said they had an agreement. Furcal’s representatives asked them to send over a Terms Sheet. The Braves signed it and faxed it but the Dodgers never signed and returned it.
*Wren said this is the first time this has happened to him. Every time he’s sent a Terms Sheet, a deal has been done. Agent’s purposefully don’t ask teams to send Terms Sheets unless the deal is done.
*Wren said Furcal told him he was excited about moving to 2B in order to return to the Braves.
This is third-hand info, but Bowman at MLB.com pretty much repeats the same info.
So it looks as if Furcal gave Wren a pretty strong indication that he was coming back to Atlanta.
Posted by: ink-stained scribe | December 17, 2008 at 05:10 PM
Saw it on ESPN yesterday morning that Furcal was signing pending physical.
Thats when I congratulated Braves fans.
Anyway they will do better with younger guy there. 3 yrs he'll be 34 and free agent again, I think he can count on not trying Atlanta for a contract.
Posted by: Cyyoung | December 17, 2008 at 05:10 PM
"The Braves aren't currently commenting on this matter."
That's the best news I've heard in a while. Stop letting everyone know what your plans are and this problem doesn't happen. As much as I enjoy rumors, I'll be estatic to hear an official press release about a signing or a trade from the Braves. Run a tight ship, and let people know when its done.
Posted by: soupdujour | December 17, 2008 at 05:11 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApxCbHlfUol9a5oNgJYaqEI8R9MF?slug=ti-furcalbravesoffer121708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
That article says a signed agreement that Furcal will accept the Braves offer.
Posted by: BravesRed | December 17, 2008 at 05:11 PM
onley was jus on sports center and said its not for sure it just "looks like hes headed back to L.A."... He described it as " last week he was dating oakland, this week he was engaged to atl, and now the ex-husband is about to steal him back"... lol
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:12 PM
Soeaking of spewing crap, listening to dodger fans is almost as nauseating as listening to philly and mets fans.
Posted by: lueds20 | December 17, 2008 at 05:12 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApxCbHlfUol9a5oNgJYaqEI8R9MF?slug=ti-furcalbravesoffer121708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
That article says a signed agreement that Furcal will accept the Braves offer.
This article makes it sound like if the dodgers backed out at the last second that the braves would be unable to back out and furcal would have the legal right to accept their contract since it is signed by wren, wow thats jus pathetic, ive lost ALL respect for furcal.
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:15 PM
Die-hard Dodger Fan,
Did you keep up with the story? I was following it pretty closely and I don't think there was any point when the AJC broke any of the details on this. Ken Rosenthal was the first person I saw with the story, Crasnick then said there was no agreement (maybe this should have been a warning sign), but later back tracked and said a preliminary agreement had been reached.
Honestly, I think the Braves get the benefit of the doubt on this one. Furcal had a similar situation with his last contract and Atlanta has always been a team that's tight-lipped about any deal. Just look at the Vazquez trade for an example. I think the fact that sources in Atlanta said this was a pretty much done deal shows that they left the meeting with the understanding Furcal was done looking around.
If I had to theorize, the Braves put their 3 year with a vesting option offer on the table, it was clearly superior to the Dodgers offer at the time, and Furcal basically acknowledged that would be enough to get him to sign. That's where the Braves left things off.
Kinzer's own comments point to Raffy being extremely excited about the offer, but Kinzer wanting him to sleep on it. Remember Furcal wasn't in the country and couldn't sign anything anyway. I think Kinzer then purposely left the Braves with the impression that once Furcal returned they'd be ready to finalize things and take a physical. With the Braves thinking this, they wouldn't seriously deny any speculation that they had reached a PRELIMINARY (caps for emphasis) agreement. This obviously helps Furcal and Kinzer because the Dodgers won't have any doubts that he's not bluffing about Furcal's intentions or the offer on the table.
Kinzer was really just doing what a "good" agent would do and increasing leverage for his client. He used it to get an offer from the Dodgers that was competitive with the Braves offer and guaranteed he'd get to stay at SS. When presented with these two options Furcal chose the Dodgers and I can't blame him.
I don't think anyone did anything wrong here. I don't like the way Kinzer played things and I hope the Braves avoid him if possible in the future, but he did a great job for his client. Furcal was ready to just accept the Braves offer and get things over with. Kinzer convinced him to wait a day or two and then managed to get the Dodgers to up their offer. It is what it is.
Posted by: nixa37 | December 17, 2008 at 05:16 PM
I was kinda pissed when i saw we were picking up Furcal, that deal did nothing for us but to open up KJ for trade for an outfielder.
The only reason i'm not happy with Furcal is how his agents acted. I would rather have Escobar anyway over Furcal.
Furcal will go back to the Dodgers on a mediocre team that proved that they cannot do anything without Manny. Burnett and Furcal not coming will look pretty good for Wren for not over paying when they are both sitting on the bench milking a paycheck while on the DL again.
Posted by: OffJohn'sRocker | December 17, 2008 at 05:17 PM
And new information basically backs up my theory completely...well it actually sounds a little worse than what I thought, but still.
Posted by: nixa37 | December 17, 2008 at 05:19 PM
I just hope this doesn't become some kind of precedent setting idea. Seems fairly shady, to take a legit offer sheet and say this is what you have to beat. Puts all of the power into the agents hands, GMs could be used as a pawn to get the agents guys more money, even when there is no intention whatsoever to sign with said GMs team. Its one thing to tell another GM whats on the table, its quite another to show them a terms sheet.
Posted by: Grizzlyfox | December 17, 2008 at 05:21 PM
I completely agree with nixa. As a hard core braves fan, no use crying about it. You don't want him on your team anyway, it was a kinda dumb deal for Wren to make in the first place b/c we have no need for middle infield and the money could be used elsewhere
Posted by: OffJohn'sRocker | December 17, 2008 at 05:21 PM
MattsDodgersSD do u actually know ANYTHING about the Braves orginization?? Give wren exactly what he has now 35 mil to spend and i garuntee he can put a team together that can win the n.l. west. Your division is a joke and thats the only reason ur even competitve, if the dodgers played in the east we would be saying they wont be competing for years. And ya the braves prolly wont compete in 09 but they WILL compete in 2010, your comments are embarressing to yourself.
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:22 PM
Exactly we weren't getting any sort of discount on Furcal or anything. We were essentially offering what the A's offered. I didn't think it was a bad idea if Wren had a good trade in place to send Escobar or KJ elsewhere for a SP or LF, but once they started talking about moving KJ to LF instead of making a trade I began to have 2nd thoughts.
Posted by: nixa37 | December 17, 2008 at 05:26 PM
"Furcal will go back to the Dodgers on a mediocre team that proved that they cannot do anything without Manny."
Yeah, because Martin, Loney, DeWitt, Kemp, Ethier, Bills, Kershaw, McDonald, Elbert, Wade and Broxton aren't going to get better as they grow into their prime. The Dodgers only chance is with Manny. No other player matters. The Dodgers have no talent. They're a horrible team.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 05:27 PM
By David O'Brien
December 17, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
Just talked to Frank Wren, and they are not happy with the agent. Said there was an agreement, to the point of the Braves sending over the term sheet on Tuesday for Kinzer/Furcal to sign after agreeing to all the points Monday night. They never returned the term sheet.
“I think you hae to be upset with the turn of events and the way,” Wren said. “We usually don’t do business this way. You don’t expect people you have to deal with to do business that way.”
Posted by: tsweet9000 | December 17, 2008 at 05:28 PM
I am kind of relieved. I was afraid that the Braves were going to do something dumb like trade Yunel Escobar.
What is it with the Braves fascination with injury prone players this off season. First, Peavy. Then, AJ Burnett. And now Furcal. Can they please go after someone that doesn't have that big injury prone tag over their head.
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | December 17, 2008 at 05:29 PM
Bottom line. Burnett would have been great but health concerns there, furcal was a waste of time cuz there was nothing there for the braves to get out of that.
If Smoltz is healthy sign him, maybe take a look at Sheets b/c his injuries usually aren't as bad as Burnett and we will pay much less for him, if not grab another good not ace quality starter (please not lowe) and a decent outfielder and we are pretty well good to go if our staff stays healthy
Posted by: OffJohn'sRocker | December 17, 2008 at 05:30 PM
What are the available options as far as free agent LF's for ATL? The only ones I am aware of the would be somewhat of an impact would be Burrell, Dunn, and Abreu. All of them seem over the hill so whats wrong with letting brandon jones platoon in LF with Diaz. Our offense was just fine last year with no impact left fielder. If our pitching staff would not have fallen apart like the mets in september we would have been right there in the pennant race.
Posted by: lueds20 | December 17, 2008 at 05:30 PM
dodgersbruin anyone can go and blurt out alot of young players and prospects, like yunel,kelly,jair,morton,hanson,heyward,shafer,freemna,gorkys,hell even Mac arent going to get better?? Im not saying the dodgers dont have a solid young nucleus but every team has talented youngsters, doesnt mean ur team is that good cus with out manny the dodgers arent very good, cmon they wouldnt have been bale to win the nl west with out him for crying out loud...
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:33 PM
YOUR EMBARRASSING YOURSELF WITH PREDICITIONS WHO SWEPT THE CUBS. ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN ITS WHAT DOES HAPPEN. DODGERS ARE AN IMPROVING YOUNG TEAM WHOS PROSPECTS HAVE MATERIALIZED FOR THE MOST PART. THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER. MANNY OR DUNN IS NEXT CUZ THEY DONT WANT ANYTHING TO THE 1990S BRAVES EITHER. KINETIC OF POTENTIAL WINS GAMES?
Posted by: MattsdodgersSD | December 17, 2008 at 05:33 PM
"Bottom line. Burnett would have been great but health concerns there, furcal was a waste of time cuz there was nothing there for the braves to get out of that."
Burnett is not a very good pitcher. He had a 105 ERA+ last year, even with his 231 Ks. Braves fans should be lucky you dodged the bullet by not signing him.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 05:33 PM
Remember Wren doesnt have to spend all this money this year. There will be a whole new class of free agents next season. Lets save 20 million and take a run at Lackey.
Posted by: tsweet9000 | December 17, 2008 at 05:34 PM
WHAT HAVE COULD HAVE SHOULD HAVE....YOUR ATLANTA BRAVES
Posted by: MattsdodgersSD | December 17, 2008 at 05:35 PM
"so whats wrong with letting brandon jones platoon in LF with Diaz" Please god no!! Well at least please dont let this be the long term solution, i could care less what we do for next year since we wont be competing but for 2010 and beyond that would be a travashamokery to have diaz and jone platoon in LF
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:35 PM
thank you chipperowns, honestly the braves could sign no one else at this point and stay in contention in the west. your division is a joke, 3 crap teams and then two average teams. And MattsdodgersSD, typing in caps doesnt make your points look any better
Posted by: bravesfan22193 | December 17, 2008 at 05:36 PM
chipperowns10,
You're wrong. The difference between your list of players and my list is that every single one of my players was in the majors last year. And all were league average or better except for DeWitt who was 22.
And to say that every team has talented youngsters? Really? Quit being ignorant.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | December 17, 2008 at 05:38 PM
I THINK IT WILL BE FUNNY WHEN WE SNAG SMOLTZ OUT FROM UNDER YOU TOO....CUZ ATLANTA IS A HOLE
Posted by: MattsdodgersSD | December 17, 2008 at 05:39 PM
bohica
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | December 17, 2008 at 05:39 PM
dodger'sbruin,
Yes, like i said a bunch of mediocre players.
There is not really one player on your NL west champion Dodger team that I would trade for the corresponding position on my near last place braves team.
Take out Manny and the Dodgers probably have the seem record as the Braves who lost just about every pitcher to injuries.
Posted by: OffJohn'sRocker | December 17, 2008 at 05:39 PM
"YOUR EMBARRASSING YOURSELF WITH PREDICITIONS WHO SWEPT THE CUBS. ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN ITS WHAT DOES HAPPEN. DODGERS ARE AN IMPROVING YOUNG TEAM WHOS PROSPECTS HAVE MATERIALIZED FOR THE MOST PART. THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER. MANNY OR DUNN IS NEXT CUZ THEY DONT WANT ANYTHING TO THE 1990S BRAVES EITHER. KINETIC OF POTENTIAL WINS GAMES?"
Am i the only one who doesnt think this comment makes very much since?? The only part that i can understand is that you think the dodgers have an improving young team. The part about the ubs predection and manny and dunn make NO since...
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:39 PM
I GOTTA SAY I ALMOST ALWAYS AGREE WITH DODGERS BRUIN SO SEE HIS COMMENTS
Posted by: MattsdodgersSD | December 17, 2008 at 05:40 PM
and to say that the dodgers will get better because every single one of their young players is going to get better is just ridiculous if you're going to come back and say the braves are terrible. If the Braves prospects and young players all pan out just like some of you dodger fans are predicting yours will, then we will be starting another 14 year run very soon.
Posted by: bravesfan22193 | December 17, 2008 at 05:40 PM
All I was suggesting is that focusing on pitching will be the key to success in 2009 and those two would just be keeping it warm for heyward in 2010 or 11 and beyond.
Posted by: lueds20 | December 17, 2008 at 05:43 PM
"I GOTTA SAY I ALMOST ALWAYS AGREE WITH DODGERS BRUIN SO SEE HIS COMMENTS"
I thik that might be because you cant really think for yourself and dont really know too much about baseball. And dodgerbruin you really dont think that every team in baseball has some young talent?? Seriously your calling me ignorant for saying that every team has at least some young talent? WOW!!!
Posted by: chipperowns10 | December 17, 2008 at 05:43 PM