Furcal Signs With Dodgers

chipperstown,

Just because some shmoe posts that on his personal blog does not make that true. If you believe everything that is posted on a personal blog I'm gunna put one up right now that has some wonderful property in alaska, you interested? The rumor surfaced when, for some reason, some other bloggers and reporters posted that martin may be traded. I am a faithful reader of MLBTR and that is the only time I ever saw anything like that. I read an interview with torre recently in which he compares martin to jeter and calls him the leader of the team. I'll be posting that link soon, in case you're interested chipperstown :)

NickC...haha, your comment is priceless.

Braves fans need to get the sand out of their vaginas. Don't have your little hissy fits on here because you have a jackass for a GM.

Don't worry Braves fans, when the former Braves has beens are making almost $30 million this season sitting on the DL, we'll get the last laugh.

Posted by: BravesRed | December 17, 2008 at 07:24 PM

We had about 46 million worth of former braves (schimdt, Furcal, Jones) on the dl last year for at least 2 months each.

Atl braves : 270 ba, 345 obp, 408 slg, 753 ops,
La Dodgers 264 ba, 333 obp, 399 slg, 732 ops,
The braves are ahead in every single category there and they traded away one of their best players while la got by far thier best player late in the saeson with a full season of tex we would have dismantalled u guys offensivley, not that we werent already better offensivley.
And beast of the east its already a rivalry to me consedering i live in so cal and go to every braves game in la and have to deal with the ignorant dodger fans at dodger stadium. Im not calling all dodger fans ignorant but the majority of the fans that pack dodger stadium have no clue what thier talking about and only go to drink beer and talk shiitt, dodger fans u know dodger stadium is a horrible place to watch a ball game especially for fans of the opposing team. it is embarressing that they are my home team and i am categorized with thier ignorant fans. Again not saying all dodger fans are but the majority at dodger stadium.

IVDOWN...You cant take the truth? STFU? See I can agree SD had a bad season although a few decent ones before. SD isnt looking good for next year either. Agreed...so what? I can face the facts, can you guys? Keep it real...And PS, Moores is selling the team and that is the BEST news I've heard in years. Just think what SD can do with an ATL payroll.

Yeah, dodgersbruin.

McCann was really bummed to have a league average season as a 21 year old.

Stop now, for your own sake.

"Martin has had one above average year sandwiched in between two completely mediocre years."

I didn't know that above league average was "completely mediocre". McCann's two bad years were both lower than Martin's worst season. 95 and 10O OPS+'s. So if Martin was "completely mediocre", what did that make McCann those two years?

Okay first off DodgersBruin, i read you making a comment about us only winning one title in our 14 year run. well quick question, how many did ur beloved dodgers win in that same time frame? Thats what I thought. And for all the people dissing the Braves outfield in favor of the Dodgers, yeah right now it is better but Kemp right now is more potential than production and Im not sure how good Ethier is, wanna give me some stats? Then Jones/Pierre is garbage. If we're doing this based on potential which you all seem to be doing with your projection of Kemp as a star because he clearly hasn't been so far then how about Heyward, Schafer, and Francoeur. Heck we also have Gorkys if schafer or frenchy falter

"McCann was really bummed to have a league average season as a 21 year old."

He had that same league average season 2 years later.

ivdown i know, im saying its a rivalary to me because of how much i cant stand dodger fans, and i figured the good seets would be better too but i had field level tix every braves games this past year and it was almost jus as bad. Dont get me wrong its fun for a while but the drunken idiots eventually get annoying.
But im off to owrk good luck trying to brain wash people into think martin is btter than mac dodgerbruin..

Instead of arguing about whos better betwenn mac and martin lets argue about whats better sex or a bj? guess what they are both freaking awesome! so new subject PLEASE!!!!!

wow padrefuture, what has kevin towers done? reveal to you that your ace wants to get out of SD and desperately wants to play for the cubs and also kicked out pads legend trevor hoffman. sound about right?

While furcal danced a thin line I think it is pretty clear he took the best offer not to mention he will be on a team more likely to contend and get to play his prefered position. He would have had to get his deal to vest to get 40 mil from the braves while he got 33 from the dodgers. Unless he is absolutely terrible he will def top 40 mil over the next four years. If he has been terrible in atlanta he would have been lucky to get to 38.

IVDOWN...You cant take the truth? STFU? See I can agree SD had a bad season although a few decent ones before. SD isnt looking good for next year either. Agreed...so what? I can face the facts, can you guys? Keep it real...And PS, Moores is selling the team and that is the BEST news I've heard in years. Just think what SD can do with an ATL payroll.

Posted by: padrefuture | December 17, 2008 at 07:31 PM

Ive seen like 5 of your posts just skimming through it this, and all of them are just shi* talking.

What facts do i need to face? That my team was just in the NLCS? They have lost key players, but signing furcal is a big step. We SHOULD be going after one of the best 4 outfielders left (manny, dunn, burrell, abreu), and then one of the good sp left (perez, rj, garland, sheets), and probly just use in house options for the 5th spot in the rotation, resign one of saito or hoffman (hopefully saito).

Sounds like a lot, but its almost a certainty we get at least one of the pitchers or one of the hitters i just mentioned, both would be nice, though.

Also, due to the West being so bad, the Dodgers will be in contention next year.

Division titles are worthless? Yeah because no one wants to make the playoffs, jeez give me a break.

lakersdodgers, six all stars. i see two at best.

Padrefuture,

The Vazquez trade was actually really good. A solid starter who has averaged right around 200 IP for like 8 years in a row for nothing but prospects? But, if you think that a guy who has a 7.99 K/9, 2.39 BB/9, 3.34 K/BB, and a 3.93 FIP for his career is bad, then you've got another set of problems that I may not be able to help you with. I'll also tell you what he didn't do, though. He didn't overpay for Peavy and he didn't overpay for Burnett, and I applaud him for that.

Like you should talk about GM's anyways...

bravesfan22193...whats has Towers done? Are you really asking me that? Come back to me when you learn a little more about baseball. Even Dodger fans are smart enough to know Towers has pulled off some great trades...not to mention some great bullpens out of nowhere...as well as have HALF the spending power LA or ATL has.

Guys Martin is much better than McCann.

First off, just compare their CERAs (Cather's ERA).

McCann has a CERA of 4.26 and Martin of 3.65.

Then look at their caught stealing %'s. Martin's is 24.7% to McCann's 22.5%.

Hitting wise, McCann has more power but Martin has a higher OBP and more speed.

McCann's advantages:
-Better hitter for avg
-Better hitter for power

Martin's advantages:
-Better on-base skills
-Faster (more steals)
-Better handling pitchers
-Better defensively

All in all, you would have to say Martin is better.

IVDOWN...without MANNY LA was/is nothing. NOTHING

glavine, smoltz, chipper (in and out of lineup), gonzalez, moylan, soriano, hudson, kotsay, diaz, and hampton. who cares about how much the players on your DL make? its about production, the Braves lost more talent to injury

i see glavine, smoltz, chipper, hudson, and diaz who were big injuries. we3 had the same #, 10, off the top of our heads on the dl, bout only half were going to help. at least 7 were going to help at the start of last yr

dodgersbruin you mention all the nice stats. 35 steals, caught 11 times. 153 strikeouts as well and not many walks. trust me besides the steals this sounds way too familiar to braves fans. francoeur. Just saying, let's see some consistency before we rush to grade him. only one season in the majors with 300+ at bats so let's see what unfolds this year. I do think he'll be great but thats projecting. And why are you so sure Manny will be back?

If Manny is not back then 2010 or 2011 the Braves outfield will pass the Dodgers if all the players meet their projections. Francoeur is only one year removed from being considered one of the game's best young stars, Heyward is a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, and Schafer and Gorkys have higher upside than Ethier. Right now the edge is to the Dodgers because Ethier and Kemp have faced MLB competition and Gorkys, Schafer, and Heyward have not but this could change very soon

Die-Hard Dodger Fan...is that career CERA? Martin is catching his pitchers against arguably the worst division in the majors. Do you know how many times the Braves have to go through the lineups of the Philles and Mets?

Also, saying that he has more steals is pointless because he also has more caught stealings. McCann has a higher career OPS+ at a younger age...the question about who is better offensively isn't a question at all.

BP ranked McCann at #11 and Martin at #27 for players too build your team around...I'll believe BP's opinion over yours, chief.

"Francoeur is only one year removed from being considered one of the game's best young stars"

Francoeur sucks, any way you want to slice it. I'm praying Wren finds a way to replace him before next season starts.

Giving up some GOOD prospects for Vasquez was a decent trade I agree. But he isnt a #1 you need...in fact, I believe ATL is still trying to get that #1. But to say that Wren is a great GM cause that move when he choked on Furcal and Burnett...and lost out on Peavy.

padrefuture, we aren't talking about the past here. Im talking about what has he done lately and its not too pretty. If we're going to include career trades then let's look at Jurrjens and Gorkys for Renteria. Or the Ohman and Infante trade. While he hasn't succeeded this off season neither has Towers

If Manny is not back then 2010 or 2011 the Braves outfield will pass the Dodgers if all the players meet their projections. Francoeur is only one year removed from being considered one of the game's best young stars, Heyward is a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, and Schafer and Gorkys have higher upside than Ethier. Right now the edge is to the Dodgers because Ethier and Kemp have faced MLB competition and Gorkys, Schafer, and Heyward have not but this could change very soon

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | December 17, 2008 at 07:58 PM

Andrew Lambo will be in the majors in 2 or 3 years, and he is one of the Dodgers best prospects right now. We SHOULD still have Kemp, it would be nice to still have Ethier, so it could be Lambo in left, Kemp in center, Ethier in right.

You shouldnt count your chickens, man.

"Without Manny the Dodgers were all of like 4-6 games out of contention...BIG deal. And saying the only reason the Dodgers won anything is because of Manny is laughable. Without Gonzo your team would have been contending for 110 losses. Without Ryan Howard the Phillies wouldnt have made the playoffs. Without CC sabathia or Ryan Braun the Brewers would have missed the playoffs.

Posted by: Ivdown | December 17, 2008 at 08:01 PM "

IVDOWN...thanks for showing everyone why Dodgers fans make me laugh so often. LOL Manny was the ONLY reason LA made the playoffs. How do you not see this? How? Take the blue out your eyes and wake up! Go look up his stats while with LA, go look at the other players stats since Manny. Go look up stats from the playoffs. Come on...be serious now.

Why do I think Manny will be back? Well, first off, who else has shown real interest in him? Second off, much like the Furcal situation, I see Colletti laying low until another team gets close to a deal, then the Dodgers finally coming in and finishing the deal. They did it with Casey Blake (not that I think it's a good signing). They did it with Furcal (perfect signing in terms of talent, plus keeping O. Cabrera off the team). They'll probably do it with Manny.

I don't see Francoeur with Kemp. I don't have a problem with Ks. His OBP was .340. Not bad for only playing baseball for 5 years in his life. He's MUCH better than Francoeur.

I can't believe I just read a comment that compared catcher's era of two catcher's on different teams with different pitching staffs in different divisions. Are you kidding me? The only thing that could have made that better is if you had used Varitek and Martin. Then you could add in a whole different league as well as a DH in the lineup.

IVDOWN...thanks for showing everyone why Dodgers fans make me laugh so often. LOL Manny was the ONLY reason LA made the playoffs. How do you not see this? How? Take the blue out your eyes and wake up! Go look up his stats while with LA, go look at the other players stats since Manny. Go look up stats from the playoffs. Come on...be serious now.

Posted by: padrefuture | December 17, 2008 at 08:08 PM

Ok man, completely disreguard my entire statement.

We wouldnt have made the playoffs without Manny, but the same can be said for half the teams that made the freakin playoffs. Lets see how the Whitesox do without Quentin, how the almost playoff twins would have done without Mauer or Morneau, how the almost playoff Mets would have done without Wright, Reyes, or Beltran.

Manny is one of the MANY examples of one player making a huge difference.

iamnobody, frenchy hit 29 homers in 2006 at the age of 22. with a not completely pathetic average of .260. so he showed power that year, and the next year he showed he could be a more complete hitter. .293 average, 19 homers, and 40 doubles. Yeah the K to BB ratio is bad but if he returns to those numbers I will not be disappointed.

DodgersBruin, if we're going by what the scouts say then why don't we just put Heyward in the Hall of Fame right now?

Don't know why TypePad is being such a jerk. Won't post my comment.

The point I was trying to make to Padrefuture was that I'm glad that Wren didn't try to outbid the Yankees for Burnett, and I'm glad that he didn't just keep throwing prospects at Towers for Peavy.

Did you not see the deals he made last year for Jurrjens/Gorkys and Infante/Ohman?

"iamnobody, frenchy hit 29 homers in 2006 at the age of 22. with a not completely pathetic average of .260. so he showed power that year, and the next year he showed he could be a more complete hitter. .293 average, 19 homers, and 40 doubles. Yeah the K to BB ratio is bad but if he returns to those numbers I will not be disappointed."

His wOBA in 2006 was .308, and his defense was a notch above average...which puts him right at replacement level. In 2007 his wOBA was .337, and his defense was, again, a notch above average...which made him a pretty average RF. In 2008, his wOBA was .286, which is just gross, and his defense was bad as well, putting him a couple of WAR below replacement level. He is not someone we want in our starting lineup.

DodgersBruin im not disputing that kemp has produced, im just saying if we're going to look at Kemp's projection based on scout's opinion. then you should also look at the braves outfielders.

DodgersBruin im not disputing that kemp has produced, im just saying if we're going to look at Kemp's projection based on scout's opinion. then you should also look at the braves outfielders.

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | December 17, 2008 at 08:24 PM

Kemp has about 2 seasons worth of Major League experience, with good results, while the outfielders you are talking about are coming off really bad years (frenchy) and all in the minors.

So the Dodgers having the BEST pitching staff in the NL had NOTHING to do with the Dodgers making the playoffs?

You're not going to admit that you get the advantage of pitching to the Padres, Giants, D'backs and Rockies?

I'd be willing to wager if you put your pitching staff in the NL East or God forbid the AL East they wouldn't look as good as you think.

Why are there a bunch of people on here acting like kids and arguing about what players are better?

I mean this is an article about Furcal and where he might or is going to sign...etc

Makes no sense and who cares? I mean to argue about who is better between McCann and Martin this really has alot to do with the Furcal signing I assume?

Besides it's not like they both aren't very good.

Also to the guy talking about catcher ERA that is pointless with the Braves best pitchers having so many injuries.

Still I'm not going to argue about who's better because it's useless to do and when it comes down to it it's like this.

Probably atleast 90% of Dodger fans are going to say Martin and probably 90% of Braves fans are going to say McCann.

Now if this was a discussion about who my team might get than I might argue about who is better for my reason on wanting to sign one guy over another but to just argue for the point of saying a player on my team is better than the player on your team is pointless IMO.

Hitting wise, McCann has more power but Martin has a higher OBP and more speed.

McCann's advantages:
-Better hitter for avg
-Better hitter for power

Martin's advantages:
-Better on-base skills
-Faster (more steals)
-Better handling pitchers
-Better defensively

All in all, you would have to say Martin is better.

Posted by: Die-Hard Dodger Fan | December 17, 2008 at 07:53 PM
---------------------------------------------

I guess you'd have a point if all those categories had equal value and the difference between the two in every category was equivalent. That's just not the case though.

There's no proof that Martin is better at handling pitchers and McCann has gotten his fair share of praise for his game-calling abilities. Martin is marginally better defensively and is a little better throwing out basestealers, but the difference between the two is only in the neighborhood of 2-3 runs.

I'll give you that Martin a slight advantage is OBP, but its not that big, only 15 points for their careers and 12 points last year. McCann's advantage in power is pretty massive though. His slugging percentage is 68 points higher for his career and it was 127 points higher last year.

Honestly, I don't think there's a big argument here. McCann is a year younger, more accomplished up to this point, and is coming off a stellar year while Martin is coming off a down one. Yeah Martin has a broader skill set, but it doesn't nearly make up for McCann's huge advantage with the bat.

You guys want to know what the sad part about this whole situation is? Furcal should be praised for not being a money hungry traitor like 99 percent of baseball and believing in loyalty. I feel that in his heart he believes that he didn't get the job done in LA and owes them this contract. When I heard he was leaving, I was not just angry but genuinely crushed. Hearing that he is coming back should be a breath of fresh air to a world that cares about nothing but money. Thank you Raffy for reminding us what a real baseball player is supposed to be. Welcome back to Hollywood!

I hope Furcal fails his physical and comes crawling back to the Braves. Then FW will fax over a term sheet to Kinzer's office with F-You written on it.

HollywoodHitmen,

You do realize the Dodgers offer is worth more guaranteed over the first 3 years of the deal than either the Braves or A's offers, with the potential to be worth significantly more if the option is picked up in the 4th year. Its not a lesser offer as much as an offer with different risks and rewards.

Dodgersbruin, you have to be the dumbest person I've seen on here. The Dodgers have sucked for the last 20 years and now ur gonna talk smack. Really?? Your comments about having guys competing for MVP's and Cy Youngs every year is a joke right? You're losing Manny and Lowe and the only reason you have a shot is because ur in the worst division in sports. Yeah, the Braves have fallen on hard times, but they will be back. The farm is loaded with talent..they just need some time. You better get it done soon...your time is running short. Idiot.

Dodgersbruin, you have to be the dumbest person I've seen on here. The Dodgers have sucked for the last 20 years and now ur gonna talk smack. Really?? Your comments about having guys competing for MVP's and Cy Youngs every year is a joke right? You're losing Manny and Lowe and the only reason you have a shot is because ur in the worst division in sports. Yeah, the Braves have fallen on hard times, but they will be back. The farm is loaded with talent..they just need some time. You better get it done soon...your time is running short. Idiot.

Posted by: njbraves | December 17, 2008 at 08:43 PM

You really want to talk about people acting like idiots when you come up with this statement?

Playing 3B would make Martin less valuable, so I'm not sure why that would matter. As long as either can stay at C they should. I will say however that McCann's bat probably plays about as well at 1B or DH as Martin's does at 3B.

And are you really going to argue that Martin is better because Hurdle played him longer in the ASG? Why don't we just anoint Soto the best C in the game because the fans voted him the starter? Seriously though, I'm glad you brought McCann getting no playing time in the ASG because that was one of the biggest jokes of all. Best bat left on his bench and he couldn't find a single spot to use him. Good thing the ASG doesn't mean anything.

"Your comments about having guys competing for MVP's and Cy Youngs every year is a joke right?"

Yeah, you're right njbraves. I'm an idiot. I'm incapable of reading scouting reports. I can't read statistics or watch a game on the field.
Scouting reports say that Kemp will be a 30-30 player and compete for MVP awards. Scouting reports say that Chad Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw will be phenomenal pitchers and compete for multiple Cy Young Awards.
Statistics show that Bills had a 135 ERA+ with 201 Ks in 201 innings last year at age 23. Kershaw had a 100 ERA+ and 100 Ks in 108 innings at age 20. Those don't look like guys who could be any good. Might as well just dump them now.

As for your farm being loaded with talent, good. Because your "farm loaded with talent" was the Dodgers 3 years ago when the 2005 AA Jacksonville Suns were the team of the year.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/awards/team-of-the-year/2005/26689.html

I hope your prospects make it. Ours already have.

it doesnt matter who the dodgers sign they are not going anywhere with joe torre as their manager

All of this bashing on Frank Wren is kinda crazy

Furcal = From various sources it has been said that there was a term agreement sent and that the agents still shopped around after that. its not FW's fault that Furcal's agents still shopped after what in baseball is considered to be the final step of an agreement.

AJ:
It was a difference of 2 million dollars (80 mil Braves, 82 mil NY) and the fact that his wife doesnt fly so he wanted a place closer to his home. Geography messed that up for us not FW.

Peavy:
This one you cant get to detailed on because nothing official has come out about the packages offered and what SD wanted its just believed to be that Towers kept altering a deal and the Braves eventually got tired of it. can you blame them? in that time period if they had known that Peavy really didnt want to come to ATL in the first place and wanted to play for the cubs im pretty sure Kelly Johnson would have been traded to the Cardinals for Ludwick at that time. Instead we missed out on that deal and possibly some others that we may never know about.

Vasquez:
Tyler Flowers was blocked by McCann at C and if he moved to 1B he is blocked by Kotchman and Freeman. therefore the only position left is DH something the Braves dont have since they are in the NL. So in that sense he was expendable. not to mention he is 22 i believe and hasnt even cracked AA yet.

Lilli:
Showed his true value at the ML level as a backup/utility guy. plus he is blocked by Escobar and we have another SS in the system.

Gilmore:
not that great

the only thing i think might bite us is the reliever we sent them.

if you look at that stuff FW has done all he could. He already stated he didnt want to sell the farm for one person when there is so much talent in it. Nor would it be wise to have gone to a rediculous price for AJ when he is so injury prone.

So honestly why all the bashing?