Cashman On Trade Market

Hughes isn't even in the rotation, why would they need a starter "better than Hughes"? Doesn't even make sense. They have plenty of rotation depth.. the question is Bruney's health and late inning relief. Mark Melancon should be up soon too.

Give Phil Hughes a few starts. He really hasn't gotten much of a chance in the rotation.

AJ Burnett's FIP, 5.15 is very marginally less than Phil Hughes' 5.19. Burnett is a bigger problem with that rotation than the Wang/Hughes conundrum, because he's pitching WAY below expectations. Give Hughes the spot and see what he can do over a larger sample size.

Wang will get plenty of rope. This do or die start nonsense is just talk.

I mean nonsense from the Yankees, not you. They don't mean it. I agree about Burnett, not really worried. What's weird is he always slightly under performs his FIP, this year he's done better. Just imagine how good he'll be when his FIP normalizes.

The yanks would gain the most having rafael and mike 7 then 8 to mo and jo jo in AAA that would be to much for austin

Brain stokes or sean green for shelly duncan

Melancon*

The Yankees are as efficient with their money as the Government. I'm sure Cashman all ready has the rubber stamp from Hank to start up the printing press come the trade deadline.

I recall before the season began discussing with Yankee fans how they needed to pick up some rotation depth, that Wang's picking up where he left off after nearly 9 months from a major foot injury was no sure thing and the lack of success from the relievers that they had was scary, that is, none outside of Rivera and Marte had more than 1 year of success and it looked like they needed more and was laughed at by Yankee fans. They went out and added AAAA guy Tomko Ohka which has been a real blessing, was the only addition made.

Now they must either go out and give up real pieces to acquire a setup guy for Rivera, or wait for Bruney to come back.

A team can never, ever have too much pitching and be in the AL East. 2006 Red Sox season taught me that, especially after the Yankees came to Fenway in mid August, took 4 of 5 with Boston's rotation in a shambles decimated by injuries after they had traded Bronson Arroyo earlier in the year.

Take out Wang's starts and the starters' ERA is 4.39, within shouting distance of 4th in the AL.

Nothing really to see here.

They could use an arm in the pen, but picking up a reliever who is anything less than utterly dominant for 2 months is just simply gambling.

How did that Gagne trade work out, Sox fans? How about Damaso Marte?

It's just stupid to trade anything of value for whatever reliever happens to be lucking into good stats for the first few months of the season.

Yeah, if Valverde proves he's healthy, he's one guy. MAYBE Street. Really nobody else.

Yanks need def pitching help especially in the bullpen, CC blew his last start because Giardi kept him in an inning to long when he already had thrown 110 pitches because he prob didnt trust the bullpen. So then boston tagged him for 3 runs in the 8th. They also need 1 more starting pitcher. They have CC, Joba, Pettitte, and burnett who is a 2nd half pitcher anyways, but they need a 5th guy because idk whats amatter with wang who had won 19 games in his previous 2 season til last years injury, and phil hughes is garbage. They need someone for the 5th spot

More teams need to learn how to build a pitching staff. It doesn't end with 5 starters and 7 relievers, you need to make sure you have depth. I could be wrong but it just seems like the Yankees have had a problem with offensive and defensive depth in the last few years.

Heath Bell?

Dumb suggestions? I still trying to find out how Cashman still has a job. Probably 20 other GMs in the game could spend half as much and get more out of it. Yankee fans are just so accustomed to the out-sized spending that they don't even seem to notice the lack of results. And don't talk to me about injuries -- all teams have them. The way you survive them is to have depth especially at the minor league levels.

"Take out Wang's starts and the starters' ERA is 4.39, within shouting distance of 4th in the AL."

Good point and Pettitte and Burnett are 2nd half pitchers and CCs been pitching pretty good lately and will only get stronger and then theres Joba who has his moments. As for the 5th starter, if Wang can get it together that would be great and if not theres Hughes. As for the bullpen they're pitching much better lately from the way I see it apart from Veras. Aceves is pretty good, I like Robertson and if Bruney can freaking stay healthy than that would be great. How hard is it for a relief pitcher to stay healthy. He pitches 1 maybe 2 innings an outing! Look at Burnetts injury history and we're in the middle of June and he hasn't missed a start yet. The Yankees pitching will only continue to get better I think.

Yanks need def pitching help especially in the bullpen, CC blew his last start because Giardi kept him in an inning to long when he already had thrown 110 pitches because he prob didnt trust the bullpen. So then boston tagged him for 3 runs in the 8th. They also need 1 more starting pitcher. They have CC, Joba, Pettitte, and burnett who is a 2nd half pitcher anyways, but they need a 5th guy because idk whats amatter with wang who had won 19 games in his previous 2 season til last years injury, and phil hughes is garbage. They need someone for the 5th spot

Posted by: Cwsbaseballyes | June 14, 2009 at 11:15 PM
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I kinda disagree. CC was breezing thru the entire game and we were trying to spare the bullpen after it being overworked the the last two games. He just ran into trouble. The two runners didn't even hit him hard...it happens.

Let's be honest the starters are underperforming. Too many hames where they just were not sharp. AJ (3 gms), Joba (4 gms), Pettite (3 gms), Hughes (5 gms) and Wang (6 games) where they failed to go more than 6 IP. I can give Joba and Hughes some rope because Joba was injured/recovering in 2 of those games and for Hughes only 2 of those 5 games were blow outs. For a young arm 5 IP and 3 runs or less isn't great but it isn't bad either.
But that's 21/63 games where you're into your bullpen by the 5/6th inning. That wears out any bullpen. There are very few games where someone other than Mario or Coke blew the lead. In fact the bullpen is 14-10 with Coke losing 3 and Mo losing 2. The best thing that can happen to the rotaion is to:

a) Get Bruney and Marte back, healthy and ready to contribute.

b) Get Wang straightend out where he's giving you 6 or 7 quality IP.

c) Get Burnett, Pettite and Joba to stop beating themselves by walking too many batters and running up their pitch count.

The one thing I LOVE about the 2009 version of Phil Hughes is that he has his velocity back and he's throwing strikes. Nothing more depressing than to see Burnett or Joba taken out of the game, not because their being slammed, but because they've walked 5 guys and gone a 3-2 count on every....single....freaking....batter. Next thing you know it's the 4 inning and they've thrown 100 pitches. And then when a ball IS put in play the defenders behind them seemed lulled to sleep.

Dumb suggestions? I still trying to find out how Cashman still has a job. Probably 20 other GMs in the game could spend half as much and get more out of it. Yankee fans are just so accustomed to the out-sized spending that they don't even seem to notice the lack of results. And don't talk to me about injuries -- all teams have them. The way you survive them is to have depth especially at the minor league levels.

Posted by: BlueSky | June 14, 2009 at 11:53 PM
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Show me any other teams that a) Play in a tougher division b) Have suffered the loss of

-Their all-star, mvp caliber #4 hitter.
-Their 19 game winning #2 starter still hurt from a previous injury.
-Their all-star catcher.
-Their starting RF.
-Their #1 lefty relief pitcher.
-Their #1 set up man.
-Their back up catcher.

and are only 2 games back from being in 1st?

Plus you say how we should be able to lean on the farm system but fail to notice how we've made no trades and have had in house candidates such as Melky, Cervelli, Pena, Aceves and Hughes all step up and perform well under the circumstances.

Show me 1 team that has lost that much talent and not only be w/in 2 games out but actually hold 1st place for a little while? I know it hurt to do it, but DAMN, give the Yanks some credit for holding things together. It's not like they went out and dialed 1-800-RENT-A-STAR. They used in-house players and are 2 gams out w/ Wang and Arod still struggling to get right, Nady, Bruney, Marte and Molina still injured.

I'm sick of this debate too but JOBA NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE PEN!

As we saw with Sabathia's last start, he was kept in too long because there isn't an effective bridge to Mo. Who can Girardi trust? Bruney, if he were there and even when he comes back, how will he perform? Veras & Tomko are bums. I like Aceves but I think the Yanks need him as a long reliever.

If (big IF) Wang and Hughes can get their act together, the rotation is

Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Wang
Hughes

Joba back to the pen where is pitches the 8th and hands the ball and lead to Mo. Add in Robertson, Aceves, Coke and Bruney and its decent. Not world class, but decent.

If I had to sum up the Yankees pitching so far it would be "inconsistent". If they could just be consistent, we could gauge their true position.

Veras has to be DFA'd. He is awful. Go after Huston Street or Valverde for the 7th inning or 8th if Bruney has his monthly DL stint. IF they make the playoffs, Joba has to go to the pen for 8th, and you'll have 4 lockdown relievers. Keep Tomko for now for blowouts. Starters will be CC, Burnett, and Pettitte, with Hughes if needed.

Give Hughes and Joba more time to sort things out as starters. Hughes, especially, reminds me of Lester before he learned how to be economical with his pitches. Remember how everbody went crazy over how he always threw 100 pitches by the 5th and always got in jams like Dice-K? Last year that all changed and now this year he's made another step forward and is striking guys out like crazy! Those 2 guys need to have their bumps in the road to get themselves right and when that happens the pen will not be as overworked as it currently is!

bbxxj -

Ajax projects to be a .275/.330/.420 ML hitter w/ some speed. Unless Melky regresses to his 2008 self, that's not going to be enough to pry him away from the starting CF job.

Yanks need to deal Ajax now while he still has value.

Hold onto Montero at all costs. Very few players did what he did at age 19 in High A before getting promoted to Trenton.

Brackman and his 19 BBs in the last 3 starts (10+ innings) doesn't have much trade value at the current moment.

Cashman can't really be in "sit and wait" mode w/ his starting pitching. You can't go into October with CC and a bunch of parts. Burnett has pitched like he always pitches... a no. 3 in the AL. Great stuff, but a lot of walks, home runs, etc. Wang is a gigantic question mark. Pettitte wore down in '08 post AS break and seems to show signs he's wearing already in '09. Joba has never pitched more than 120 innings in a season... and that was in 2005 at Nebraska. You can't expect to turn this guy into a 200+ inning horse in one year without risking injury. And Hughes has yet to piece together enough starts to be called a dependable starter. Cashman's "wait and see" idea is a terrible one. Go out and pluck a true No. 2 type, whether it be Cain, Josh Johnson, or Bedard kind of pitcher. Yes, I know that means a number of good prospects going the other way. But good pitching always beats good hitting, and a Verlander/Jackson or Beckett/Lester combo will KO the Yanks in the playoffs.

So Yankee fans celebrate not being "out of it," and continue to ignore the fact that the team spends far more on salaries than any other team, but the best they can manage near the halfway point in the season is not being "out of it." I want some of what they've been smoking.

I'm STILL wondering why Cashman has a job. The point I've been making is that probably any other GM in baseball given those kind of resources could assemble a team that was a lot better than "not out of it."

Earth to Yankee fans, come in Yankee fans...

So Yankee fans celebrate not being "out of it," and continue to ignore the fact that the team spends far more on salaries than any other team, but the best they can manage near the halfway point in the season is not being "out of it." I want some of what they've been smoking.

I'm STILL wondering why Cashman has a job. The point I've been making is that probably any other GM in baseball given those kind of resources could assemble a team that was a lot better than "not out of it."

Earth to Yankee fans, come in Yankee fans...

Posted by: BlueSky | June 15, 2009 at 10:24 AM
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What are you talking about? There are like 100 games left in the season and at the moment the Yankees are leading the wildcard race by 3 and only 2 games back in the hardest division in the sport. Its not too difficult to image making up 2 games in the standings over a 100 game period. That is a way better situation then you portray, seeing as how they have a playoff spot now even at this insanely early point. What in your mind would be a success for them a 60-1 record? would you then stop bitching about the payroll? Is that the only leg you have to stand on?

Say what?"

What. My question still stands. Any other team given the kind of money the Yankees spend (every year) runs away with their division. The Yankees spend record sums (every year) and are only competitive, which seems to be enough for Yankee fans. This mystifies me. Fans of any other team in this situation would be calling for the GM's head on a pike. I know I would -- but since I'm not a Yankee fan, clearly I don't understand.

Posted by: BlueSky | June 15, 2009 at 10:52 AM
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Since when did the Steinbrenners allowed the fans to choose the front office personal? If a bunch of us on this forum get together and post enough do we become majority shareholders in the team? The team leads the league in payroll for a number of factors some being bad free agent deals and some being that they paid above and beyond to keep their players instead of letting them go once free agency came around. Not to mention its hard to get on Cashman when for a good amount of time its hard to say who was responsible for those contracts.

I can recall the Dodgers and Mets spending tons of money in previous years and a.not making the playoffs at times and b.not winning the world series

As for your insinuation that Yankke fans have lower expectations, i think that you couldnt be more wrong. People go apeshit if they are ion the Wrold Series every year(which is a completely UNREALISTIC thing to expect). I luckily have seen 4 World Series victories, countless postseason games and a few guaranteed hall of famers to play on my favorite team, so its hard for me to complain to much.

Also can i ask you a question would you rather your team pocket the money and not spend it on the club? This argument is so dumb to me, why wouldnt a fan want his team to put as much revenue into the on the field team as possible?

Yankees fans are easy to bother, apparently. All you need to do is point out how poorly they've spent their huge piles money -- which in the hands of any other GM would produce a juggernaut team. So include the ownership in the blame too, if you think they are also responsible. Makes no matter to me. But as we all know, ownership never takes the blame for under-performance -- they fire the GM or the manager.

The comment about not being "shareholders" is hilarious. As if fans of every team don't get on their mangers, GMs and owners for making poor trade and signing decisions. Maybe not in Yankee-land, but I don't think so. That defense has to be about as flimsy as they come -- but it's early yet.

"Except now you have a massive glaring hole in the rotation since Wang's on the DL. You want your promising young pitching in the rotation, not in the pen."

But for how long? The Yankees have been pretty clear that they don't want to overuse Joba, but he's already thrown almost 2/3 as many pitches this year as he did in all of last season. His low innings pitched total may make it look like they haven't worked him hard, but despite really good peripherals, he's been laboring through the vast majority of his starts. He's only managed to make it past the sixth twice this season. Maybe they've about faced on his pitch counts and babying him, I don't know. If they haven't, though, he's not going to make it to September throwing that many pitches.

While he's better suited for the rotation long term, he's obviously laboring this season. If they don't shift him to the bullpen at some point this season, he's probably going to top the team in total pitches.

test

No doubt, Mark Melancon should be up with the team. Mid 90's stuff, power curve and pretty good control.