Blue Jays "Have To Be Open To Anything"

The rays have the best pieces to make a trade with the jays.

Jesse Listch will also be back some time next year.

I have seen McGowan name thrown around for next year. But hasn't JP basically come out and said it doesn't look like he may ever pitch in baseball again.

And that after all his rehab the only thing he can do after all this time is play a light game of catch.

Yeah Ben, the above poster is right - The Jays aren't "expecting McGowan to return to (the) rotation". Both JP and Anthopolous have expressed serious concerns about DMac's future.

Added Litsch's name... obviously there's Richmond, Tallet, Purcey etc., but I don't want to go crazy and list every Jays pitcher!

That's a pretty dumb way to look at things. First of all, the amount of talent in team's top 5 prospects varies widely across the league. Second, Halladay is a FA after next season, and that does bring his value down quite a bit. Honestly, as long as a package had the right prospect headlining it, I think a deal could be worked out. I don't think this would ever happen, but let's say the Braves offered up a package headed by Hanson with a couple other solid prospects. Does anyone in their right mind think the Blue Jays turn that down?

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 11:08 AM
----------------------------
Thats very true the way Roy Halladay has been pitching this year besides hes couple starts back from the dl hes been amazing and to think if you could get a year and a half of Halladay to help you with a playoff push and good start on opening day next year hes value on the trade market is probably at its peak here

If the Jays are smart they would trade for J.J. Hardy. I know Scutaro is having a good season but If they can get a very good young SS for let's say Janssen,Cecil and another prospect.

I don't think this would ever happen, but let's say the Braves offered up a package headed by Hanson with a couple other solid prospects. Does anyone in their right mind think the Blue Jays turn that down?

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Not that the Braves need SP, but I'd say Hanson and Heyward start the conversation for Halladay.

Why would a team looking to build for the long run trade good prospects for J.J. Hardy, who will hit FA after the 2010 season? I think most people have forgotten just how much service time he has and get caught up on the age. It doesn't matter if you think he'll continue to develop if you don't even get to keep him for his peek seasons.

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 11:23 AM

If the Brewers are serious about Halladay, then that conversation starts with A. Escobar and Gamel.

The Brewers would instantly become the team to beat in the central and a Halladay/Gallardo combo could take them a long way in the playoffs.

Red Sox get: Halladay

Jays get: Bucholtz/Bowden, Anderson, and 2 or 3 other mid to low level guys.

I know Red Sox fans will say this is too much but when you think about this it will barely put a dent in the farm system. Also everyone knows the Red Sox are not shy about spending on free agency.

Hanson and Heyward for Doc? Since when did the Braves need another starter?

And I'd say you're bat$h!t insane. I wouldn't even consider trading Hanson straight up for Halladay as Hanson is controlled for 5 more seasons than Halladay, is a pretty good bet to outproduce him over that period, and only makes a small fraction of what Halladay does/will make. Not only do you want Hanson though, but another consensus top 5 prospect in all of baseball? I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. It shows a complete lack of understanding on how the market for young players has changed over the past decade. Most teams wouldn't even consider trading 1 guy on the level of a Hanson or Heyward unless its for another young, cost-controlled player. Yet, for some reason, you think a team should be willing to give up two of those players for an older pitcher signed for just the next 1.5 seasons at slightly below market rate deal?

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Again, I stated they didn't need SP, but if they wanted Halladay, and I am Riccardi... I start with Hanson and Heyward.

Halladay is about as good of a pitcher as you will find in the bigs. Period.

To suggest Tommy Hanson, and his career 36 innings of work, will outperform a proven no. 1 in the AL East over the next 5 years makes you look stupid. Hanson is a great pitcher, no doubt about it. But Mark Prior was once great too.

And while scouts like Hanson, they don't like his delivery. The same reason the Twins didn't like Prior's delivery and drafted a kid named Joe Mauer over Prior who was considered the golden child at the time.

Heyward might be the next Willie Mays or he might be the next Delmon Young. My point is he's a prospect. He's not a sure thing. Stop getting all caught up on their potential and start thinking about what a Roy Halladay brings to a crappy NL East division.

They don't clearly. I was just pointing out that if the Jays got a guy like Hanson to headline a package it would likely only take a couple solid prospects to put the deal over the top. Apparently Toronto fans live in a fantasy world where other teams have to give up 3 of their top 5 prospects for Halladay, but the team with the strongest top 2 prospect combo in baseball has to give up both of those guys for a year and a half of Halladay.

Jays would never trade Halladay to the Yanks, Yanks would never trade Montero and Jackson; and Sosa, I'm assuming you mean Eduardo Sosa, hasn't had more than a weeks worth of at bats of the DSL.

"To suggest Tommy Hanson, and his career 36 innings of work, will outperform a proven no. 1 in the AL East over the next 5 years makes you look stupid. Hanson is a great pitcher, no doubt about it. But Mark Prior was once great too."

I agree it is overstating the case to assume Hanson will be better than Roy over the next 5 years...Halladay with his sinkerball will probably age very well

But for these purposes, it's not really even comparing Halladay vs Hanson for the next 5 years.

It's comparing the value you are projected to get from Hanson for the next 5.5 years, to the value you expect to get from Halladay for the next 1.5 years. Even though Hanson has limited innings, he looks like a front of the rotation starter already, and I would say in that comparison, Hanson is the very safe bet.

So right now I would have to say objectively, Hanson has at least comparable trade value 1 for 1....especially since to lock in Halladay past 2010, it is ostensibly going to cost well over 100 million dollars in an extension (with Halladay basically holding the Braves over a barrell if they attempt to lock him up in a post trade window)....which could get you three starting players, or 100 overslot draft picks, etc...

You also have to remember Fausto Carmona was a top prospect and won like 17 games two years ago. Now he is down in A ball.

The Twins and Johan was a much different situation. First of all, the reason they settled on the Mets package was because of how NYY and BOS were doing business...Yanks refused to part with Hughes and the Sox with both Elsbury and Lester so the Twins moved on. Secondly, Johan was a lock to not resign there, so the Twins had to get what they could. That's much different than Doc, who will only get traded if JP was blown away, and has already extended once in Toronto for below market value - if the Jays are willing to give him the money, he will stay.

Thanks carini26 for trying to let people know the difference between a prospect and a guy who has proven over the last 7 years or so that he's the best pitcher in baseball. It's absurd that people don't get this. At this point in Hanson's career Tim Lincecum was almost traded for Alex Rios, and you people are suggesting that Hanson is enough for Roy Halladay? LOL.

The thing that people seem to be missing is that the Jays do NOT need to trade Halladay. That is why the deal would have to be overwhelming.

Who they should be trying to trade is a guy like Lyle Overbay (and Vernon Wells, but nobody would take him...)

Again, I stated they didn't need SP, but if they wanted Halladay, and I am Riccardi... I start with Hanson and Heyward.

Halladay is about as good of a pitcher as you will find in the bigs. Period.

To suggest Tommy Hanson, and his career 36 innings of work, will outperform a proven no. 1 in the AL East over the next 5 years makes you look stupid. Hanson is a great pitcher, no doubt about it. But Mark Prior was once great too.

And while scouts like Hanson, they don't like his delivery. The same reason the Twins didn't like Prior's delivery and drafted a kid named Joe Mauer over Prior who was considered the golden child at the time.

Heyward might be the next Willie Mays or he might be the next Delmon Young. My point is he's a prospect. He's not a sure thing. Stop getting all caught up on their potential and start thinking about what a Roy Halladay brings to a crappy NL East division.

Posted by: carini26 | July 06, 2009 at 11:45 AM
----------------------------------

It's the next 6 years, not the next 5. So we're talking about Hanson's from age 22 to age 28 compared to Halladay from age 32 to 38. We're also not just basing this on Hanson's 36 ML IP, but also his incredibly impressive minor league track record and ace stuff. Plus, we're comparing someone who will likely make over $100 million during that period to someone who will likely earn around $25 million if he lives up to expectations.

As for the Mark Prior comparison, well I bet you Prior could have landed you just about any player in baseball if he had been traded after his first full season. Comparing the mechanics of a Hanson to a Prior also shows you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to pitching mechanics. Yeah, Hanson should utilize his lower body more to generate velocity, but his arm action is top notch and that is probably the most important factor when you're talking about arm injuries. If you're interested check out the links below to compare the arm actions of the two.

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/04/04/pitching-mechanics-mark-prior/

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/12/12/690731/pitching-mechanics-tommy-h

Oh, and comparing Heyward to Delmon Young again shows a clear lack of understanding on your part as to what separates prospects. Young never had an advanced approach at the plate and didn't draw a whole lot of walks. Heyward's walk rate is almost 3 times as good as that of Young's, while he maintains a similar strikeout rate. So, he has similar natural tools, but far more developed baseball skills.

You also didn't address the fact that it would take the Braves 2 of the top 5 prospects in all of baseball to get Halladay. If that is the case, I can't imagine how other teams who lack the sort of high end talent the Braves could ever give you value even approaching this.

Not only that, but more than half their remaining games (39 of 79) are against those same three teams -- the Yankees, the Red Sox and the Rays.
---
Nice math. 39 is less than half of 79

Well, IMO the Braves need to call the Jays and talk to them about their relief pitchers. They have some good quality pitchers in their BP and the Brave's back end of their BP is essentially rocky and will be next year.

Braves are losing Gonzo and Soriano. Doubtful to retain both.

Moylan is still rocky himself with no promise to improve.

The back end of our bullpen could benefit from some quality arms.

As far as Halladay:

I dont see him going anywhere. With the Jays getting so many pieces for their rotation back next year they know they will contend with their pitching alone.

What i will say is that the Braves/Jays could benefit from a trade in which the Braves get Alex Rios.

I dont think the Jays would have a problem eating about Half of his contract so about 6 mil a year for them and 7 for the Braves.

Braves get a quality RF'er Jays get that salary relief that they want to help them retain Halladay.

They could then extend him at least through 2015 with that extra money paying the guy at least 20 mil a year.

Halladay for Justin Smoak, Taylor Teagarden, Martin Perez and Julio Borbon.

Vernon Wells (owed $98 mil) for Alfonso Soriano (owed $90 mil). Jays get a legit power hitting DH. Cubs improve their OF defense with Wells at CF and Fukudome moving to RF and Bradley to LF or vice versa?

"Vernon Wells (owed $98 mil) for Alfonso Soriano (owed $90 mil). Jays get a legit power hitting DH. Cubs improve their OF defense with Wells at CF and Fukudome moving to RF and Bradley to LF or vice versa?"

Adding Vernon Wells is going to IMPROVE their outfield defense?!?? What?!?

Wells has been the worst center fielder in baseball according to UZR, with a -33.3 UZR/150, and he was at -24.0 last season.

Wells has been worth -1.1 WAR this season, which makes him one of the worst players in the game.

I would trade Soriano for just about any contract in baseball, but Vernon Wells' is one that I would stay away from.

"My point is that guys like Hanson and Heyward have done nothing to prove they are anything more than great prospects. Prior and Young were simply recent examples of "hype" guys that never fulfilled their potential. That's it."

But everyone knows that already. You've spent all this time trying to teach something to someone who already knows that really, really well.

It's like teaching the alphabet to high-school students.

"I doubt Wren even makes a play for another starter, especially after getting fleeced in the Teixeira from Texas deal."

Wren wasn't GM when that move was made. That was like John Schuerholtz final stand as GM, a vintage Shuerholtz move from his days in Kansas City.

"Halladay for Justin Smoak, Taylor Teagarden, Martin Perez and Julio Borbon."

If I'm Ricciardi and I receive this offer, I probably take it.

Looking through the past few seasons, I think that it's more likely that Soriano returns to his previous production levels than Wells. Wells may return somewhat as a hitter, but he'll never be the asset defensively that was necessary to justify that deal.

""My point is that guys like Hanson and Heyward have done nothing to prove they are anything more than great prospects. Prior and Young were simply recent examples of "hype" guys that never fulfilled their potential. That's it."

But everyone knows that already. You've spent all this time trying to teach something to someone who already knows that really, really well.

It's like teaching the alphabet to high-school students."

Um no... he thought I was literally comparing Heyward to Delmon Young and Hanson to Prior.

I wasn't trying to teach nixa anything. He just responded to my original post.

"Wren wasn't GM when that move was made. That was like John Schuerholtz final stand as GM, a vintage Shuerholtz move from his days in Kansas City."

Sorry, Assistant GM... whatever.

"Um no... he thought I was literally comparing Heyward to Delmon Young and Hanson to Prior."

Right, but that comparison is so obvious that it's totally unnecessary.

Any remotely educated baseball fan knows that prospects are a crapshoot, and that for every Grady Sizemore, there is a Corey Patterson.

We all know that already, so I just feel like trying to point that out is just wasting everyone's time.

Regardless of how proven they are, though, that only has so much affect on their trade value, which factors in their upside and the six years of team control.

1.5 years of Halladay for six years of Hanson and six years of Heyward would possibly push the Braves back farther than the Tex trade, which sounds an awful lot like the trade that you would be suggesting.

"Sorry, Assistant GM... whatever."

Yeah, whatever, who cares that you were wrong..

Um no... he thought I was literally comparing Heyward to Delmon Young and Hanson to Prior.

I wasn't trying to teach nixa anything. He just responded to my original post.

Posted by: carini26 | July 06, 2009 at 01:02 PM
-------------------------------

You brought them both up in a post that was specifically responding to my earlier post. Who else were you bringing up the examples for?

Heyward and Hanson is way more value than what Baltimore or Texas got in those respective deals. None of those deals had any top 5 prospects, let alone 2. Seriously man, stop being such a homer.

nixa37: The deal was done in 2007:

Saltalamacchia was ranked #1 for Atl (#36 overall)

Andrus was ranked #2 for Atl (#65 overall)

Harrison was ranked #3 for Atl (#90 overall)

Feliz and Jones were not rated top 10 for Atl that year.

Heyward and Hanson is way more value than what Baltimore or Texas got in those respective deals. None of those deals had any top 5 prospects, let alone 2. Seriously man, stop being such a homer.

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 01:55 PM

No really, Jones, Tillman, and Sherill don't even come close?

And Salty, Andrus, and Feliz... plus more?

Yeah, Heyward and Hanson alone are obviously superior to both of those deals. Meanwhile, Halladay is inferior to Teixeira and Bedard.

And for full disclosure purposes, I am not a Jays fan.

scribble, whether or not the teams feel poorly about the deals is irrelevant. all those deals do is establish the market for frontline players with 1.5 years left (and again, any team trading for doc is getting him for at least 6.5).

no one is asking for heyward and hanson - we are telling you that thats the sort of offer its going to take for jp to make a move that would cripple the franchise's image in toronto. they already reduced payroll from 100m to 80m and there are whispers that more cutting could be on the way, so the inability to keep doc would send all the wrong signals to the fans.

"scribble, whether or not the teams feel poorly about the deals is irrelevant. all those deals do is establish the market for frontline players with 1.5 years left (and again, any team trading for doc is getting him for at least 6.5)."

Right, but none of those deals worked out, so logically there would have to be a market correction.

There's no doubt that Seattle and Atlanta wouldn't make those deals again if they got a mulligan, and logically other teams have witnessed how hard those deals backfired and will make efforts to avoid similar mistakes.

All that is fine and well. That doesn't change the fact that JP will not settle for anything less than a similar package to that. Which is all I set out to do when I warned everyone in the beginning of the thread that it's going to take a massive haul to entice the Jays to trade Halladay.

I'm more interested to see what the Jays do with Scutaro. The Reds need a legit leadoff hitter and a SS. I'm just saying its a match if the Jays decide to trade an expiring contract.

carini26, kudos to you for being a voice of reason.

davidmp2, Scutaro looks like he's headed to Type A status and there's no risk in offering him arbitration, so the price for Marco would presumably be higher than you'd probably think.

"Yup, but for different reasons scribbletone..."

Not really.

Both teams vastly overpaid for players that in end didn't help them to contend, and each package turned out to look far more valuable in retrospect.

"All that is fine and well. That doesn't change the fact that JP will not settle for anything less than a similar package to that. Which is all I set out to do when I warned everyone in the beginning of the thread that it's going to take a massive haul to entice the Jays to trade Halladay."

Oh for sure, I totally agree with that.

It would definitely take one of Hanson/Heyward at the very least to even start discussions about Halladay.

But others were making the argument that Halladay is actually WORTH Hanson AND Heyward, which is absolutely untrue.

"Yes, versus your philosophy - followed by all GMs - to look up Baseballamerica.com's top 25 list to justify trading or not trading away prospects based on their 2009 ranking ran in February.

Baseball execs completely depend on Ben Badler and Jim Callis to set the value for their own prospects...

I am totally on board with this line of thinking"

Ha.. ha.. ha..

Right, because Baseball America is the only scouting institution that considers Heyward and Hanson to be Top 5 prospects in all of baseball.

Oh wait, that's pretty much a consensus among scouts and talent evaluators around the game.

"I'm more interested to see what the Jays do with Scutaro. The Reds need a legit leadoff hitter and a SS. I'm just saying its a match if the Jays decide to trade an expiring contract."

I agree that Scutaro could be an interesting trade candidate if Toronto doesn't plan on resigning him, because of his versatility and offensive breakthrough this year.

Maybe it's me. I just don't see Heyward as a top 5 prospect in all of baseball. Sorry.

Regardless, in time, the haul the Braves gave up to get Tex was enourmous. The fact that 3 year later, 1 is a starting SS, 1 is a starting C and 1 is a mid-rotation starter and 1 is one of the best SP prospects in baseball says a lot.

""Yup, but for different reasons scribbletone..."

Not really.

Both teams vastly overpaid for players that in end didn't help them to contend, and each package turned out to look far more valuable in retrospect."

Ok, so if you hold an extremely valuable asset that's in high demand and there are virtually no other assets like it on the market, what would you ask for?

Equal value in return?

There are no other comparable names being dangled on the market. Wouldn't you ask for the moon knowing you have all the leverage? And do you think Riccardi really wants to trade Halladay? He's cheap given his value, a great clubhouse guy, and has been the face of the franchise this decade. He should net a gigantic return. Like 92-93 mentioned, we were simply pointing out the type of package Riccardi SHOULD be asking for...

If he doesn't get it, fine, he gets to keep the best pitcher and hopefully work out an extension after 2010. He's already taken a hometown discount once.

Riccardi's problem is Wells and Rios contracts really kick into gear starting next year and he may not have the flexibility to extend Halladay like he did in '06.

Does anyone know if/when there's a mid-season ranking of prospects. As a Yanks fan I'm curious to see where Montero is ranked and where they ranks some of the Yanks A/AA pitchers.

carini26,

GMs who simply ask for the moon to start out on every trade proposal seriously hurt themselves in the long run because other GMs stop seriously looking to discuss trades with them. If he were to ask for a Hanson and Heyward type package, its unlikely the conversation would last longer than a few seconds. You're acting as if getting just one of these guys in return for Halladay would only be fair value. I think you're just wrong on that point. Just being able to pry one of those guys loose would be a huge win. The majority of teams don't have anyone on the same level as either guy. The Padres couldn't even get the Braves to discuss either one in a Jake Peavy deal, and Peavy is signed to pretty reasonable long term deal. Oh, and since then, both Heyward and Hanson have probably raised their value. Why would a deal with Hanson and multiple other good prospects not be overpaying?

YanksFanSince78,

Who are you going to rank ahead of Heyward? He's a 19 year old with immense physical tools, a great track record, and an incredibly advanced approach at the plate for someone his age (seriously 23 BB to just 30 SO for a 19 year old power hitter?). He has over a .900 OPS so far this season and that's while he's been dealing with some nagging injuries. I honestly don't really know what else you could ask for from the kid.

Posted by: nixa37 | July 06, 2009 at 03:51 PM
------------

Again..I backed off and I see where he's in the discussion. Not trying to get into an arguement over it. What I did say was I hate ranking HS kids off of such a small sample size. He's yet to do anything above high A ball yet. A .296/.369 line w/ 10 hrs is great but hardly earth shattering, correct? He projects to be a great RF but it's still hard to evaluate a 18 yr old in single A. I know he was ust called up to AA and a good showing their would cement him as a top 5 prospect.

Ok cool. Heyward is a top 5 prospect. I just think that Montero and a few of the other guys mentioned are in that conversation as well. Whether he's #1,#2, #3. #4 or #5 is pretty much a moot point when you consider it all.

Yeah I didn't see where you had backed off before I made that post. Honestly Heyward isn't really being ranked off of a small sample size though. While his numbers haven't been dominate by any means, they've been great across the board for a year and a half now, and he really had no trouble adjusting to higher caliber pitching in ST this season and he was actually much more impressive than his Grapefruit League numbers indicate as he went deep off on Panama in an exhibition and hit 2 HR off of Kawakami in an intersquad game. His numbers in High A are a bit deceiving as well, as his OBP dropped significantly and his power almost disappeared after he missed a good chunk of June with a hip injury. Before that he had an OBP in the .375 to .380 range with a SLG of around .550. You're also seriously selling him short if you don't think 10 HR in less than 50 games is very impressive for a 19 year old in high A ball.

Like I said, I'm not knocking Heyward as a top 5 pick. However, Cody Johnson, a teammate of Heyward, has 22 hrs in 266 at bats compared to Heywards 20 in 189 at bats. Now for avrious reasons, Johnson is nowhere as good as Heyward but I say that to say that we can't get too caught up in single A stats.

As a Yanks fan I have to temper the accomplishments of a guy like Montero with patience. As good as he was in high A he has to prove himself all over again in AA and eventually (hopefully late 2009/early 2010) in AAA.

That should've read Heyward 10 in 189 at bats but you get the point.

nixa37 -

If a half season of CC, struggling at the time in Cleveland, is worth Laporta (top 15 prospect at the time) plus 3 others, then I have to think at least 1.5 seasons of Halladay is worth well north of that.

Sure, I understand the economics and how teams value their young talent more than ever right now, but Milwaukee doesn't make the playoffs without CC.

CC wasn't struggling at the time he was traded. He had struggled a bit early that season, but he had turned things around well before the trade, posting ERA of 2.44 in May and 1.89 in June after posting a 7.88 in March/April.

That was also a bit of a special case as LaPorta didn't fit in the Brewers long term plans and didn't have a huge amount of upside (his ranking was based on his high floor as much as anything else). Also, none of the other 3 guys were close to being top 100 prospects. So that's 1 top 15 guy and some solid prospects. I'm suggesting a deal of Hanson (given his AAA performance this year probably a top 3 prospect) and multiple other good prospects (almost certainly better than the other 3 in the CC deal). How does this not make up for the extra year? The difference between the value of Hanson and the value of LaPorta is pretty big. There are a lot of prospects who have ceilings as good or better than him...guys like Hanson are much tougher to find.

Maybe I confused the point I was making. I just used Cody's numbers in response to you making a highlight out of Heywards 10 hrs. Both teammates on the same team and about the same age both out of HS. Heyward obviously is the better hitter overall. However, the point was to temper what he's done (22 hrs in 700 at bats) with some patience. I think a top 5 ranking is a bit agressive IMO. I've got a documented history of being wrong and I think it's more a matter of how you interpret things obviously. Still I think he's destined to be a great player.

First off, all this talk of what's a "fair deal" comes from a group of people that always seem to forget compensation through the draft.

Halladay who is one of the Top 5 pitchers in baseball is as close to a guaranteed Type A player as you will ever find. His age and shorter contract is a plus. I think any GM would tell you that Halladay would be less enticing at his age with 5 years left to go.

Knowing that pitchers start to break down and lose velocity at 33-34 years old means that they will be offering arbitration to him right before he goes from elite to just All-Star level and his contract is small enough that if he says yes you won't have a problem giving him a 1 year deal.

Any team trading for Halladay is basically getting 1.5 years of the most durable pitcher in baseball (even his time on the DL probably won't keep him from being Top 10 in innings pitched this year), along with a 1st round pick (#16-30) and a compensation round pick (#31-45). The best prospect in the minor leagues isn't worth more than those two picks as most of the 1st round picks usually crack the list of top 50 players anyways.

As for Heyward, there are no signs that he's going to become anything special. It appears more hype and projection than statistical dominance. Heyward shows decent power for his age, but what speed he has doesn't show up on the base paths in the form of steals. He's also 6'4" and 220 lbs., which appears t be a little too big to stay in centerfield now and since he only turns 20 this summer, he's going to add about 20 lbs. in the next two or three years. This all translates to greater injury risk, playing a position with a greater emphasis on power (LF, RF, or 1B) and then what he does bring to a team becomes less enticing as a whole. Heyward is a great prospect because of his potential COMBINED with the position he plays. Want an example of what I mean? Look at Vernon Wells who was 6'1, 200 lbs. when he first came up and now he looks very slow and unspectacular in CF. Andruw Jones was a much better fielder than Heyward will ever be and by 30 it looks like his future is as a DH or corner outfielder. Bigger guys like Heyward don't stay in CF very long, you have to be lanky and more slight built to endure and so I would say realizing Heyward is playing out of position, he looks more like a 25-30 prospect than a Top 5.