Brewers, Braves Not Discussing Vazquez

Hart and Fransuck would team up for the worst looking hacks in the league.

I wanna know if Vazquez would come to LA? Im sure the Blue would be able to piece something together.

The Brewers are a Number 2 from being scary good.

the brewers should just ship Braun to Hotlanta for a package of their young talent....the last thing we need in the ATL is more young talent that wont help us win today.

what do any of think it would take to get hardy and hart from the brewers javy and who else

"he can't be traded to any Western division team without his permission."

I did.. Did you?

Hey at least hunter pence is hitting better than hart say what you say about him he gets the job done.

is it impossible that the braves would consider trading him to the phillies? i would think so but im not positive.

i would rather see them trade lowe instead of javy

Why is Gamel untouchable? His Defense has been lousy and he isn't hitting insanely enough to garner untouchable imo. The Braves should probably try and trade Hudson and keep Javy.

That was confusing sorry - If Braves get A. Escobar, they would probably flip Y. Escobar.

hart and gamel or escobar are better than Vazquez the brewers would be getting screwed gamel alone is better!!

I'd imagine the Braves would want Lawrie too.Posted by: PWHjort | July 06, 2009 at 03:57 PM

are you kidding me i watch this kid in appleton all the time he's got a better swing then half the braves orginization combined!!

dodgerblue,

im sure javy wont mind going to one of the best teams in all of baseball.....and hollywood. yes, im sure might have a problem going to colorado or oakland but i think he would go for LA under torre.

now, just give us ethier or kemp and we will call it a day. since, yall love pierre so much he can take on of their spots.

dlsmkt2004,

we would never trade for dunn. how stupid would it be to give up prospects for a guy you could have had in the offseason for zero prospects? wren trading for dunn would mean that he would be admitting that he made a big mistake in the offseason....he wouldnt do that.

i know the brewers would never trade braun but jesus christ my mouth waters just thinking about it.

hey braves fans....would you trade hanson for braun straight up? not saying i would, but i would be tempting....

-dlsmkt2004-

"why is the braves not looking at dye or dunn or has anyone heard if they are"

Because the braves dont have anyone worth Dye or Dunn. Especially not Javy Vazquez

So the Brewers want Javier Vasquez who has pitched like an ace for nothing huh? Frank Wren would need to be fired if he even contemplates that. Hart is a marginal player, it would be like having another Francouer in RF NO THANKS. And Escobar and Gamel aren't even ready. The Braves are only 4 games out, and a trade like that makes sense for the Brewers, but the Braves would be getting SCREWED. Brewers can call the Braves all they want, but unless they are willing to give up Braun or Fielder, this would make zero sense for the Braves. The Braves are one cleanup hitter away from possible contending. You don't give up an ace for crap. Next!!

""he can't be traded to any Western division team without his permission."

I did.. Did you?"

But are we not talking about the guy who threw temper-tantrums when he had to play for Arizona?

The "without his permission" part is probably best translated as "unless your team agrees to move to the east coast for 2010". He was so adamant about not pitching for Arizona that it is hard to believe he would pitch for the Dodgers

GM Doug Melvin would not trade both Gamel and Escobar plus Lawrie. TOTALLY unreasonable. And no, the Brewers aren't going to trade Braun.

Hart is still considered to have upside, more so than Francour at this stage. A package built around him with minor leaguers has possibilities. Another possibility is package built around Hardy. Not only his offense but his defense has value. A Hardy package might involve multiple minor league players swapped on both sides. for Vasquez. Escobar is the future at SS for Brewers. Gamel is likely to move to outfield if Hart is traded, as McGehee looks like he could fill 3rd, at least for now. Hall becomes IF/OF super sub if Hart or Hardy is moved. Gamel's value is his bat, and likely RF is his future. Braun and Gamel would be solid outfield corners. Escobar's value is his phenomenal defense first, solid extra bases offense second.

Again, all speculation if any package can get done, but if one is done, both Braves and Brewers GMs will both get equal value, not some one-sided fan wet-dream trade!

If I'm the Braves, I don't touch this team till 7/31. Way too early to make a brash move.

i like jazy for fielder but would never happen plus i really think they would dig deep to sign him and i know he is a boras client

A healthy Mets club is better than the Braves. So are the Marlins and Phillies.

Sell sell sell!

Javier Vazquez is a little on the odd side.

I am ashamed for the Braves fans who seem to think that the Brewers would trade Prince Fielder or Ryan Braun for Javier Vazquez. Get a grip on reality, there's no way that is happening.

Vazquez is a decent pitcher but he is not a Cy Young candidate like many of you seem to think.

And the Braves aren't going to the playoffs this year...if they can get a great prospect and a decent outfielder for Javy they should do it NOW!!

garriscp, you gotta be a phillies fan talkin about Vazquez for Werth...and you gotta be kiddin me

Posted by: TomahawkChoppin609 | July 06, 2009 at 04:27 PM

I would trade Vazquez for Werth in about two seconds. Vaz is pitching over his ability now while Werth has speed and power and plays great defense.

"His Defense has been lousy"

No it hasn't. It's amazing to me that people just listen to what has been talked about nationally from people who have rarely seen him play and base their judgments on that.

"and he isn't hitting insanely enough to garner untouchable imo."

How many young players hit well when their playing time has been as sporadic as Gamel's?

"If I'm Frank Wren I put Derek Lowe on the market"

And you won't be able to sign a big name free agent for another 5 years then

_Bravo84-

Are you already regretting the Lowe signing? Lowe is not worth his huge contract and the brewers would probably never take that on, and definitely not trade their best prospect for a 15 million dollar toilet mess.

And quit with the Vazquez is pitching well above his ability crap, this is his level. His FIP has always been near the top and now his other stats have caught up due to being in a better environment for him and better defense/ballpark. He is not going to suddenly suck so there is no sell high

Garriscp

I agree that Vazquez should be an All-Star, so should Wainwright.

Are you already regretting the Lowe signing? Lowe is not worth his huge contract and the brewers would probably never take that on, and definitely not trade their best prospect for a 15 million dollar toilet mess.

Posted by: TheCrewOfBrew | July 06, 2009 at 04:39 PM

The Brewers wouldn't trade Escobar for Lowe, that's moronic. But it's also dumb of you to suggest Lowe is a "15 million dollar toilet mess." Half way through the season he has been worth 8.7 Million or 1.9 WAR and I expect him to be better in the second half so once again fail to see how this was a bad signing

"As a Braves fan, nobody wants to take on Lowe's contract. There's no way we can move him.

Posted by: DKA | July 06, 2009 at 04:45 PM "

If Lowe werent such a pissy bitch the Dodgers would take that.

Lowe was the biggest loss byfar.

-bravesfan22193-

Ok so i was exaggerating a little bit but he wouldnt be worth much to the brewers because he is old, in a big contract, and has underperformed for most of the season. If he was a lefty i would like to see a trade happen but he just isnt what the brewers are looking for.

"If the Braves could add Gamel and another valuable piece"

You can't. If the Braves want Gamel and more for Vazquez, the Brewers will just look elsewhere.

I completely agree, I don't think he has much trade value because of the chance the contract could be an albatross in two years or so but to say it was a terrible signing was a huge overstatement but I think you were just trying to prove a point. Thinking that Lowe would get us A. Escobar was wishful thinking on bravo's part

"And quit with the Vazquez is pitching well above his ability crap, this is his level. His FIP has always been near the top and now his other stats have caught up due to being in a better environment for him and better defense/ballpark. He is not going to suddenly suck so there is no sell high"

Yeah, anyone who thinks that Vazquez is pitching way over his head is really off base.

I mean, his strikeout rate is higher than it's ever been, but he left the NL during his Age 27 season, so this is his first stint back in the easier league in a few years. He's always been an innings eater and while his FIP is far lower than it's ever been, he's still been one of the best pitchers in baseball during this decade.

He's already got a 3.7 WAR this season, and with the White Sox his WAR's were between 4.8 and 5.2 in each of his three seasons there. This is a fantastic pitcher and the cost should be high, I was really disappointed to see that the White Sox didn't land much more than Flowers for him.

Sorry, the Brewers aren't getting Vasquez for that package. That is a terrible trade for the Braves. Vasquez's ERA is below 3. The Braves would have to be in serious sell mode to give and just doing a salary dump to even consider that package. Gamel is a terrible fielder, Hart is hitting 246 with only 9 homers and A Escobar isn't ready. It isn't happening and thank GOD for that. Moving on Cuddyer from the Twins wouldn't be a bad haul for the Braves. You want a number two pitcher? You have to give up equal value. Thank God Wren isn't dumb enough to pull the trigger on that trade.

So now the scoop is the Brewers aren't talking to the Braves about Vasquez. Good. The Braves don't have to deal him at all, and shouldn't unless overwhelmed by a package.

The Brewers need pitching and the Braves have rotation depth, as Tim Hudson's expected to return next month. However, Braves GM Frank Wren won't make a deal unless he's "overwhelmed," as Vazquez is a major trade chip in a pitching-thin market. Vazquez makes $11.5MM this year and next and he can't be traded to any Western division team without his permission.

I think some of you might have overlooked this part of the article, whether it is relevant now or not. Frank Wren would have to be "overwhelmed" to move Vaz. That package isn't going to "overwhelm" anyone

brewers just don't match up unless they deal braun or fielder. gamel or escobar do not meet the braves current needs & pendelton will just ruin their swings. hart is not a big bat! get over it!

"Where are you going to look?"

I personally wouldn't look. I don't want a mediocre starter, that means pitchers like Davis are out. I don't want Gallardo going a ton of innings this year either after pitching only 31 last year. I'd rather he get shut down after 150-180 innings and then just go the rest of the year with what we have.

I personally wouldn't look. I don't want a mediocre starter, that means pitchers like Davis are out. I don't want Gallardo going a ton of innings this year either after pitching only 31 last year. I'd rather he get shut down after 150-180 innings and then just go the rest of the year with what we have.

Posted by: brewersfan729 | July 06, 2009 at 05:22 PM

Who's going to pitch then if you're not acquiring anybody and gallardo is limited? Because it's not a playoff rotation then

Trade Fielder?!?!?! Trade Braun?!?!? That is HILARIOUS. The only reason to acquire a pitcher is to contend. If you remove one of the reasons you are a contender, what is the point of getting a pitcher?!?! That is funny. The Brewers won't pay what Atlanta wants.

Bravesfan22193: the Brewers will wait until the deadline and see what shakes loose. ANYTHING is an improvement on Burns or Parra at this point. Suppan has been doing well lately and Gallardo is an ace. Looper is what was expected. When Bush comes off the DL there won't be such a big emergency. If the Braves want too much, Melvin is just as likely to go for Washburn or Davis to fill in. Melvin is not going to be held over the barrel. Melvin is not into trading key pieces for the future of this team in order to win now. Contrary to popular belief LaPorta was expendable in the CC trade and has some significant red flags and that's why they sold high on him. Escobar isn't ready so they need to keep Hardy to contend now. They also need to keep Escobar because Hardy won't be around much longer. Hart is the only expendable guy because he refuses to sign an extension. So Hart and some lower level guys will be the offer and when the Braves reject it (and they should if they see themselves contending with Vazquez this year or next), the Brewers will move on.

"You're going to judge Vazquez off his record?"

Year after year after year after year. Lifetime record 132 - 136. Peripherals, always studlike.

There's a reason he's with his 4th team (soon to be 5th team) in 6 years. He's not a WINNER.

Definition of insanity - "...same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Yeah the way he is playing he isn't but sadly Prado is playing over his head

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | July 06, 2009 at 04:41 PM

Actually Prado has always hit well. Bobby just never gave him a chance to play every day until KJ was so bad he had to take him out. Prado had a .300 average in the minors and that has carried over to the majors. He won't continue hitting .400 like he has the past few days but he very easily is a .300 hitter.

"You're going to judge Vazquez off his record?"

Year after year after year after year. Lifetime record 132 - 136. Peripherals, always studlike.

There's a reason he's with his 4th team (soon to be 5th team) in 6 years. He's not a WINNER.

Definition of insanity - "...same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Posted by: ballyb11 | July 06, 2009 at 05:35 PM

Once again give me his run support for those seasons and then I'd be more inclinced to believe you, though you'd probably feel like an idiot. Win-Loss record is the judge of a team not an individual player. Case in point, Brad Penny has a great record and is an average at best starter. Why? Because he plays for the Red Sox

"There's a reason he's with his 4th team (soon to be 5th team) in 6 years"

It has nothing to do with him not being a winner. He didn't fit in NY and struggled with the media so they moved him plus they liked randy johnson way more, Arizona never really wanted him, Ozzie Guillen hated him, and the braves aren't moving him so no there won't be a 6th team soon. And if you want to go back 7 seasons he was with Montreal who couldn't afford him and his increasing salary

Nevermind, I way overvalued Dunn

"I do not think this will happen. I am only saying this to throw out an option involving Prince Fielder and Vasquez.

Braves acquire Prince Fielder

Brewers acquire Javier Vasquez and Adam Dunn

National acquire Casey Kotchman, Manny Acosta, and Gamel/Mcgehee"

Not a chance the Brewers consider it.

In 2007 when he got 5.2 runs per game of support, Vazquez pitched to the tune of a 15-8 record.

FYI - Vazquez career record.

1st half - 75 - 70

2nd half - 57 - 66.

Oh and in that 2007 you mentioned. At the ASB, the Sox were 8 under and 13 games out of 1st place (finished 24 back). Vazquez was 9 - 3 in the 2nd half. Last year when the Sox got to the playoffs in a playoff game, he 5 - 9.

Better unload.

-telemakhos-

Vazquez would only be an 'ace' for a handful of teams and is a solid #2 for most. Gallardo is better and younger than vazquez so dont compare them.

Its pointless to keep making trade speculations or ripping them apart because as it says above, there is a good chance there wont be a trade.

"To get an ace, you need to give up a lot, and while I realize Braun and Fielder are probably off limits, it's going to take more than Gamel or Escobar, but gamel is a nice start."

And once again, you're not getting Gamel. We can't go out and trade prospects every year and spend a ton of money on the 25 man roster so we need guys like Gamel and Escobar to contribute to the major league club for peanuts in their first few years.

There's really no trade that makes sense between the Brewers and Braves.

Hart and Hardy are the both on the trading block. Gamel and Escobar are not.

Brewers Roster 2010
RF - Gamel
SS - Escobar
3rd - McGehee
2nd - Hardy or Weeks
CF - Hart or Weeks

Financially, the brewers MUST have young, inexpensive, talent in order to field a competitive team. Therefore, they cannot afford to give up the likes of Escobar or Gamel.

The Brewers would sooner settle for a mid-back end pitcher like Doug Davis or Jarrod Washburn than overpay for a #1.

"you don't get a pitcher the quality of vazquez without giving up a lot."

Thanks. Have I said otherwise at any point?

"If you're not willing to mortgage the future a little to win now, then there's no fit between these teams."

I'm not and I said as much in my last post.