Odds & Ends: Giants, Phillies, Hernandez

were sign to = were to sign

Unlike what the folks in Toronto believe, teams willing to trade for Halladay hold the cards in any potential deal. This past trading deadline has proved that teams are protecting their farm systems more than ever these days. Taking a hard line is one thing but doing so and the behest of your organization is another. Here that JP Riccardi?? The phillies would be foolish to give up their young studs for a year of Doc Halladay and they know that! So either the Bluejays settle for much less or they will wind up getting NOTHING for him. That's a scary thought but I guarantee the price will be at an all-time low if they try to deal him at this season's trade deadline.

The Mets cannot allow the Philthies to snag Roy Halladay. Go get a deal done Omar! I beg you!

"were sign to = were to sign

Unlike what the folks in Toronto believe, teams willing to trade for Halladay hold the cards in any potential deal. This past trading deadline has proved that teams are protecting their farm systems more than ever these days. Taking a hard line is one thing but doing so and the behest of your organization is another. Here that JP Riccardi?? The phillies would be foolish to give up their young studs for a year of Doc Halladay and they know that! So either the Bluejays settle for much less or they will wind up getting NOTHING for him. That's a scary thought but I guarantee the price will be at an all-time low if they try to deal him at this season's trade deadline.
"

Ok theres a few things I'd like to settle with this:

1) JP Riccardi is no longer the GM of the Blue Jays. Alex Anthopolous is.

2) Saying that other teams hold the cards in this situation is not fully correct. While the return may diminish over time until the trade deadline, Halladay is one of the best pitchers in baseball and the sheer demand for that quality of pitchers means that the Jays hold the cards, even if his return is diminishing.

3) To say that the prospects highlighted in that pack are "studs" is also not fully correct. With regard to the top three Phillies prospects scouts quoted in the article have said:

Dominic Brown "Some Eastern League observers thought his power would be average at best and would limit him to hitting at the top of the lineup rather than being a middle-of-the-lineup factor."

Kyle Drabek: "He has to improve his arm strength and command along with his changeup. … His aptitude and athleticism make it more likely he’ll improve that pitch and fulfill his profile as a No. 2 or 3 starter.

Michael Taylor: "Conditioning probably will be a long-term issue for Taylor, who does a good job of staying on top of his juvenile diabetes"

So essentially the "studs" being talked about are an outfielder without pop, a solid number 3 and an outfielder with conditioning issues.

If the Mets can get Doc, then that would mean the Phils could get him easily.
I would advise the Phils to stay away from Roy. Don't go throwing away prospects for 1 year of Doc. You built this current team through smart trades, frugal F.A signings, and excellent D.D.
This trade would go against all of that.

"I would advise the Phils to stay away from Roy. Don't go throwing away prospects for 1 year of Doc. You built this current team through smart trades, frugal F.A signings, and excellent D.D.
This trade would go against all of that."

Arguably the man most responsible for that current team was Pat Gillick - who also said they should gut the farm to get Halladay.

Getting Halladay is not a weak move. It is perhaps the strongest move any team can make this off-season.

Oh, and Doc would likely ink an extension. He's a loyal guy, he wants to play for a winning team, and he has strong geographical ties to Philly. It's not your ordinary renegade loan...

Whenever I come on here to view messages the copy and paste does some weird things... is there any way to delete a post?

I think what the Blue Jays are asking for (1 or 2 top end prospects and a few lesser prospects) is very fair for Roy Halladay. You get an ace pitcher for one year and then if you can't resign him you will get 2 first round draft picks for him. Those first rounders have a tendency to become studs really quickly and who knows prospects have been known to fizzle out but an ace is always an ace.

Anyone think the Phils could get King Felix? What's his value compared to Cole Hamels?

Your right Blackcourt. They lost there chance to get some great players at the deadline. They may get some good players if they get teams like the Red Sox and the Phillies into a bidding war. You could also add the Yankees to the mix. The Mets really don't have what it takes to get the deal done.

"They lost there chance to get some great players at the deadline."

Which great players would you be referring to?

What is the general opinion here of what kind of prospect(s) the Phils would have to include with Hamels to get Felix.....because honestly if interested in Halladay and you have the chips...might as well shoot for the moon and get Felix.

""The Phillies would have to be prepared to trade Cole Hamels in order to get him."

It makes zero sense for the Phillies to trade Hamels in a deal for Felix. None. That's like cutting off your arm to fix your leg.

"I think it would be much more likely they deal Hamels in a deal for Halladay."

Hamels is easily worth more than Halladay in terms of trade value. Three years of Hamels (might be wrong on the service time) is easily worth more than 1 year of any pitcher in baseball, even Doc.

Phillies should not give up on Hamels quite yet. He is 25 and has great make-up. He needs to mature and learn how to pitch a good breaking ball. It just seems too premature to talk about trading Hamels. He was the MVP of the post season last year. No one wanted to trade him then...and why would they?

Maybe Drabek could help him with the curve and Hamels could help Drabek with the change up, haha.

Posted by: ChasenWerth | November 10, 2009 at 07:02 PM

Mainly because it is offseason and baseball fans are nosier and talk more gossip than a group of middle aged women.

"Hamels is easily worth more than Halladay in terms of trade value. Three years of Hamels (might be wrong on the service time) is easily worth more than 1 year of any pitcher in baseball, even Doc."
If the Phillies are willing to deal Hamels in a deal for Halladay I'm pretty sure they would offer him a substantial extension and not just keep him for only one year. Besides Hamels has never really been a dominant pitcher other than that one month stretch last postseason. Even before the postseason last year he was struggling.

Hamels has got a career xFIP of 3.74. Outside of this one fluke year (as melonis already pointed out) he has been among the top young starters in the game.

Theodore, the reasons teams are protecting their prospects is because players can be younger, and more affordable than Doc. Just look at Lester and the Red Sox, or Hanson with the Braves.

"you must be a mets fan. sorry for the rant."

Actually I'm a proud Yankees fan. :D
I'm not huge on the NL so sorry I didn't realize he was that good in 07. I'm much more of an AL guy. From what I saw this year though Hamels issues are mental. He was a total headcase all year long and seemed way too whiney and looking for excuses before he ever went out and pitched. If he would just go out there are pitch and not worry about everything else his progress will get back on track but I don't know if he can do that in a big city where the media will be consistently down his throat.

nerbster,

I would suggest you get to know a little about the players before you bash them (even if you were just reading from an article). There's a reason they are all 3 in the top 25 midseason report for BA. Taylor's stats are almost comparable to Ryan Howard at this point in their development but Taylor hits for a higher average and is a much better fielder and steals bases while Howard hit for more power.

Here's the comparable (not sure how this will come out):

TAYLOR:

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

314 1306 1153 180 360 81 9 45 205 44 16 121 212 .312 .383 .515 .898

Howard:
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

507 2151 1853 282 554 107 11 111 393 6 6 247 585 .299 .387 .548 .935

Howard's more powerful but Taylor's defense and baserunning and bb/k rate make up the difference. Kind of silly to call him out for "conditioning issues" when they're related to juvenile diabetes and he's as big and as strong as he is. He's a baseball player with speed in a linebacker's body. Just wait until he comes up to the show next year.

Not to mention it took almost a year to get rid of the "stanford swing" that hurt Taylor's early development.

ok as a giants fan I understand the apprehension of getting Bay especially with our luck with Zito and Rowand. But heres the difference between Zito/Rowand and Bay, Zito was declining for years since 2002 the signs were there and Sabean gave Rowand an insane contract after he had one good season hitting 27 homeruns.Bay on the other hand has been consistent hitting 30+ homeruns(except for 07 because of injury)and 100+ rbis he has something Rowand and Zito don't and thats consistency so by all means he is indeed a better pickup than the other 2. Bay's positives far outweigh his negatives not to mention he's only 31 he still has good years left in him.