Andre Dawson Elected To Hall Of Fame

Andre Dawson was elected to the Hall of Fame today, the only player selected.  Barry Larkin, Bert Blyleven, Edgar Martinez, and Roberto Alomar fell short.  Congratulations to The Hawk; you can check out his stats here.  Check out the full HOF voting here.


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242 Comments on "Andre Dawson Elected To Hall Of Fame"


5 years 6 months ago

A great, great man. Well deserved.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

Great ballplayer who played a large portion of his career with bum legs from playing on the astro turf. Deserves to be in the hall.

turnthe2
5 years 6 months ago

Disappointing about Alomar.

S8P7W
5 years 6 months ago

He’ll be in the HOF soon enough. But should have been a no-brainer. As long as he gets in in the end, that’s good enough for me.

5 years 6 months ago

Dawson had to wait 9 years to get in. Its not like he was a first ballot HOF’er. Larkin, Blyleven, and Alomar will get in eventually, if not next year.

adlerlb
5 years 6 months ago

I’m stunned. The only one to get in is the guy with the 323 obp? Don’t tell me that OBP didn’t matter in his era. Isn’t one of the main objectives in the game to get on base and avoid outs? That’s all OBP reflects – how often a guy avoids an out. Additionally, if you look back at hall of famers they had good obp’s because they intrinsically know the point of the game even if they didn’t know about OBP. Examples – Schmidt – 380 obp, Willie Mays – 384 obp, Babe Ruth – 474 obp. Dawson – 323. Those other guys seemed to understand. But oh well. It’s more amazing that only Andre Dawson made the HOF.

5 years 6 months ago

Wow Babe Ruth at a career .474 is just SICK!

UTSeminole
5 years 6 months ago

Ted Williams .482 OBP. Rediculous

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

*One* of the main objectives is to get on-base. However, how do you neutralize a good hitter (especially w/ runners on base)? You put him on with a walk. Also, you can score with an out (SF, fielder’s choice, etc). So avoiding outs isn’t the key. Advancing yourself and your teammates around the bases to home is the key. Not OBP. Dawson was one the all time greats at advancing runners (and he wasn’t bad at advancing himself – he had nearly 2800 hits).

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

What a joke, Dawson only has a .323 OBP and 119 OPS+. He was a good player but hardly a Hall of Famer.

The fact that Blyleven still isn’t in is pathetic.

5 years 6 months ago

3701 K’s = case closed vote him in!

cacavolante
5 years 6 months ago

how can you be against dawson and for blyleven? blyleven had a nice career but if you want him in the hall of fame all you’re doing is rewarding longevity, not excellence. he never won a cy young, his earned run average was not great. he had a very good career but he was not a dominant pitcher in his era. now barry larkin was a dominant player. and roberto alomar was a very dominant player. this bs about writers differentiating 1st ballot hall of famers from other hall of famers is a joke. no way alomar shouldn’t have gotten in now.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

Because Blyleven is being punished for “only” 287 wins. He’d be in the HoF years ago had he won 13 more. He played on a lot of bad teams. He’s 5th in K’s, 9th in shutouts, pitched over 240 innings 12 seasons, 9 of which he pitched over 260 innings.

Don’t use Cy Young Awards as evidence. Too often has it been given to the guy with the most wins.

sanderson13
5 years 6 months ago

I’ve never understood the argument, “He shouldn’t be in the Hall; he never won a Cy Young/MVP award.”

I think we can all agree that those two awards are often given to the wrong guy. So why use them as any kind of barometer for HoF induction?

You shouldn’t compound one mistake by repeating it. Look at the stats/numbers/facts and it’s clear: Blyleven should absolutely be in Cooperstown.

FWIW, my 2010 ballot would have been:
Blyleven
Raines
Alomar
Larkin

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

The CY and MVP aren’t always awarded to the *perfect* candidate. Anyone in the top 3 to 5 each year had a great season. Agree? CY and MVP are not popularity contests. And at least 80% of the time they are dead on.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

The CY and MVP aren’t always awarded to the *perfect* candidate. Anyone in the top 3 to 5 each year had a great season. Agree? CY and MVP are not popularity contests. And at least 80% of the time they are dead on.

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

You stat geeks really need to get over yourselves.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

Are On-base percentage and adjusted OPS really too advanced for you to understand?

Stats sure beats “He was a feared hitter” as far as determining a Hall of Famer.

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

You stat nerds want a perfect player, there isn’t one. Trying to keep a player out of the Hall of Fame because of OPS? Are you kidding me? Not every stat is relevant in determing a player’s greatness. Basketball for instance, Shaq has a terrible career free throw percentage, does that stop him from being one of the most dominant forces to ever play the game?

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

Don’t use basketball. It’s no where near the same as baseball as one player can dominate a game on his own.

I agree not every stat is relevant. SLG isn’t that important for leadoff hitters who steal a lot. But OBP is important for everyone. And Dawson was lousy at getting on base over his entire career.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

an extreme example but, a batter could sac fly RBI every at bat and have a zero OBP and be a devastating weapon. OBP is not a reason to exclude a HOF candidate. The Expos and Cubs paid him to advance runners not take walks. And he wasn’t a failure at getting on. He had 3617 times on base.
Gary Carter is in w/ a .334. Do you realize that the difference between him and Dawson is about 11 or 12 walks a year on average?

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

RBIs are useless. That sac fly is just an out if no one is on base. A mediocre OBP is enough of a reason to exclude Dawson from the HoF.

You’re not taking position into account with Carter. He played the most demanding defensive position where a lot of offensive production is uncommon. Dawson played the corner OF where the majority of teams get significant offensive production.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Scoring is not useless. It’s the whole point of the game. Discount an RBI if you like but it’s absolutely not useless. That’s hyperbole. The problem I have w/ many of the current stats is 1, they didn’t exist for players to play to back then and 2. more importantly they are not situation specific. A walk to Pujols w/ 1 out and runners 2nd and 3rd is near useless just like your sac fly example.

And Dawson won 4 GG in CF, on top of the other 4 he won at a corner.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

RBIs are useless when judging an individual player because they can’t control their RBI situations.

Pujols’ walk in that situation isn’t near useless.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Pujols can’t control that walk either. Do you want to pitch to Pujols or Colby Rasmus/Mark DeRosa/etc? The answer is obvious.

And you can use the small sample size argument for a season or two for the RBI issue but most of the players we’re looking at for HOF faced 5000 or more RBI situations. Being 34th all-time with that sample size can’t be ignored. Especially when that is the primary stat his teams asked him to produce.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Pujols can’t control that walk either. Do you want to pitch to Pujols or Colby Rasmus/Mark DeRosa/etc? The answer is obvious.

And you can use the small sample size argument for a season or two for the RBI issue but most of the players we’re looking at for HOF faced 5000 or more RBI situations. Being 34th all-time with that sample size can’t be ignored. Especially when that is the primary stat his teams asked him to produce.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

RBIs are useless when judging an individual player because they can’t control their RBI situations.

Pujols’ walk in that situation isn’t near useless.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Scoring is not useless. It’s the whole point of the game. Discount an RBI if you like but it’s absolutely not useless. That’s hyperbole. The problem I have w/ many of the current stats is 1, they didn’t exist for players to play to back then and 2. more importantly they are not situation specific. A walk to Pujols w/ 1 out and runners 2nd and 3rd is near useless just like your sac fly example.

And Dawson won 4 GG in CF, on top of the other 4 he won at a corner.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

RBIs are useless. That sac fly is just an out if no one is on base. A mediocre OBP is enough of a reason to exclude Dawson from the HoF.

You’re not taking position into account with Carter. He played the most demanding defensive position where a lot of offensive production is uncommon. Dawson played the corner OF where the majority of teams get significant offensive production.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

an extreme example but, a batter could sac fly RBI every at bat and have a zero OBP and be a devastating weapon. OBP is not a reason to exclude a HOF candidate. The Expos and Cubs paid him to advance runners not take walks. And he wasn’t a failure at getting on. He had 3617 times on base.
Gary Carter is in w/ a .334. Do you realize that the difference between him and Dawson is about 11 or 12 walks a year on average?

sanderson13
5 years 6 months ago

You’re right, ABNYC7. We shouldn’t use statistics to judge a player in a sport where nearly anything and everything can be quantified and normalized for each era.

While we’re at it, courtrooms should stop using silly things like DNA and other forensic evidence to help prove guilt or innocence.

Also, stop pestering me with so-called “evidence” that the Earth is round where I can clearly look out my window and see that it’s flatter than, well, flatter than the Hawk’s career OBP.

:-)

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

Exactlly! What’s it going to take?

5 years 6 months ago

And Blyleven had a 53% winning percentage and a 3.31 era, and offenses are much more potent with all the freaking drug users. I don’t care how bad his teams were, didn’t Steve Carlton win 27 games for a horrible Philly team?

Dawson deserves it every bit as much as Blyleven. Let’s also remember he (Bert) pitched for 22 years to accumulate those wins and Ks.

You’re acting like Howard Johnson or Tim Flannery was just elected.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

People always bring up Carlton ’72 season. But that is incredibly rare. In fact, that might be the only example of a guy having a great W-L record with a crap team. Carlton’s teams were mediocre or worse in 70, 73, and 74 and he didn’t have a great W-L record those years. Carlton also had a crappy W-L record in 1978 when the Phillies won 86 games.Let’s also remember Nolan Ryan played 27 seasons to get his 324 wins and 5000 Ks.

adlerlb
5 years 6 months ago

Wow shocked. No alomar, raines, blyleven

5 years 6 months ago

I hate you buster olney for not voting for bert. Jack Morris was given Wins in 25 games when he gave up 5+ ER. Bert Blyleven? Four.

DrBagelman
5 years 6 months ago

You don’t deserve wins for giving up that many runs. I have no sympathy that Blyleven is missing baseball immortality by 13 games because he didn’t get enough run support when he pitched dreadfully. Jack Morris doesn’t deserve to get into the Hall either so I don’t see how that’s helping your argument.

Dawson making the Hall is a joke. Congratulations to him, but seriously. .323 career OBP? That’s horrible. In 15 years we’ll see Alfonso Soriano getting in also. This ballot should have been Alomar and maybe Blyleven. That’s it. The BBWAA just proves again that it’s a joke of an organization. And I don’t care what kind of awards a player has won in their career, because that’s ALSO voted by the BBWAA. Edinson Volquez won 4th place in the ROY voting when he WASN’T A ROOKIE. These same people are the ones voting people like Dawson in… The system has to be changed, before they clutter the Hall with even more undeserving people.

5 years 6 months ago

Bert Blyleven is 9th all time in shutouts. He deserves to be in based off that factor alone.

DrBagelman
5 years 6 months ago

Yes, I agree with you. He should be. But I’m just saying, the Morris argument is one you shouldn’t use because it’s not effective :)

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Bert will get in. I have no problem with it taking this long though. Because even though everyone eligible w/ more than his 60 shutouts is in the hall (and everyone over 50, for that matter), he did have the 11th most starts in history. He’ll get in primarily on longevity, not quality. I looked at all of his 22 seasons. He was top 5 in his league maybe 5 times (based roughly on FIP-type stats, IP, HR, BB, and K against other pitchers in his league). Maybe 1 of those he had a good case for CY (1985 and the voters placed him 3rd in CY that year). Be patient, he’ll get in.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

PL used it because Blyleven pitched on a lot of bad teams and never got bailed out of a bad performance to make up for one where he pitched well but still got the loss. I’m sure he lost more games giving up 2-3 runs than Morris.

Morris is easily the most overrated pitcher in baseball history. He’s only remembered for the 84 and 91 World Series He was bad in the 87 and 92 post-seasons. But because of 84 and 91, he gets the label of “big game/clutch/post-season pitcher”. His regular season stats are good but nothing spectacular.

5 years 6 months ago

I meant Heyman not Olney. Olney’s fine by me

patrick3444
5 years 6 months ago

Blyleven 5 votes short…snubbed again. He should’ve been elected a long time ago.

5 years 6 months ago

Andre Dawson’s .323 career OBP sees the Hall Of Fame further become the Hall of Somewhat Decent.

5 years 6 months ago

Well he did win ROY, 8 GOLD GLOVES, 10-Time ALL-STAR, MVP AWARD ONCE (SECOND TWICE) and 4 SILVER SLUGGAR AWARDS. Is that the resume of a somewhat decent player?!?

Red_Line_9
5 years 6 months ago

Well, if Jim Rice is in..so is Andre Dawson.

bjsguess
5 years 6 months ago

So should Murphy.

2 Time MVP. 5 time GG. 7 time AS. The guy was hitting 40+ HR’s when the rest of the crowd was barely cracking 30. Shortened career and playing on some historically awful Braves teams didn’t help. From 79 to 87 Murphy was easily one of the very best all around players. Doesn’t hurt either that he is a stand-up guy and was great for his communities.

Brad426
5 years 6 months ago

He actually only hit 40 HR’s once (1987 he had 44). Lots of years with 30+ though.

sbmke
5 years 6 months ago

Everyone hit 30 or 40 homers in 1987 – it was a “tight ball” year. Wally Joyner anyone?

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

True but no one hit more home runs in the 1980’s than Murphy. He was the definitive power hitter of the decade, the only 300 HR player of the decade. That with 2 MVP’s in the decade? Not the worst resume – he’d be better than some players already there, no?

berardi
5 years 6 months ago

There was this guy named michael jack who would dissagree with that statement. he had 3 mvps more homers and rbis and a ws mvp.

wrencis
5 years 6 months ago

Apologies, Mr. Schmidt. You had 5 more than Murph during the 80’s – 313 to 308. That still shows that Dale has a strong HOF case.

sbmke
5 years 6 months ago

Everyone hit 30 or 40 homers in 1987 – it was a “tight ball” year. Wally Joyner anyone?

sonofkenny
5 years 6 months ago

Blyleven and Alomar left out? The voting process has become a joke…it is clear some of BBWAA members do not take this responsibility seriously enough

5 years 6 months ago

Yawn. No Alomar.

55saveslives
5 years 6 months ago

Congrats Hawk! Very surprised Robbie Alomar didn’t get it in. I hate when writers don’t put players in just because of “First Ballot” thing. LAME!

gonephishing
5 years 6 months ago

this is ridiculous that alomar didnt make it…dawson deserved it without question but the fact that alomar didnt make it is a travestyc

5 years 6 months ago

How many times has Alomar been on the ballot?

patrick3444
5 years 6 months ago

5 blank ballots were sent in. the BBWAA is horrible.

S8P7W
5 years 6 months ago

Ugh. The BBWAA is so pathetic it’s almost funny. I’d laugh if I wasn’t so disgusted.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

I believe anyone who sends in a blank ballot should be suspended for 2 years. Don’t want to vote? Fine. Don’t bother showing up. And if you do it again, you lose your voting privileges forever.

Quacktastic_Duck
5 years 6 months ago

I second that… I think there are plenty of stat nerds like us who could make the call of who should be allowed into the Hall of Fame just as easily and we would at LEAST submit a vote. That’s as good as saying you didn’t think ANYONE was deserving on that list? Stingy jerks…

opal611
5 years 6 months ago

The voting is based upon percentage. So by sending in a blank ballot, you ARE voting…and saying that you don’t believe any of these people should be elected. So essentially they are doing exactly what you mention…”saying you didn’t think ANYONE was deserving on that list”. If they declined to send in a ballot, their “No” vote would not count in the percentages.

I don’t agree with it, but that’s their choice and there is a distinct difference between not voting and sending in a blank ballot. Personally, I believe in a generous Hall of Fame, so I’d probably vote for the max 10 every single year.

opal611
5 years 6 months ago

To clarify, at risk of seeming to argue with myself, I think people like this (link to baseballink.com) who seem to just be playing games with their votes should perhaps be reconsidered as voters.

I just meant to indicate that somebody COULD legitimately enter a blank ballot in a purposeful and meaningful manner. Let’s say a year came around where the top candidates were Jason Kendall, Jeff Suppan, and Bill Hall. I think it would be perfectly reasonable for folks to submit blank ballots that year. (And I would not vote for my max 10 people that year!) :)

5 years 6 months ago

Absolutely agree. I know that if I was given a vote, I would consider it a tremendous privilege. If you want to send in a blank vote, then you should lose your privilege. I mean honestly, how difficult is it to vote on this?

richardcourtney
5 years 6 months ago

What the hell? Where is Alomar, Blyleven, and even Edgar Martinez….this is a joke

04Forever
5 years 6 months ago

what a crap year. im not knocking Dawson who clawed his way in over the last decade and a half, but hes the only one? Alomar shouldve made it and Martinez shouldve done better to in my opinion.

thefabs
5 years 6 months ago

Dawson is not a hall of famer. 3 seasons with 30 homers.? .323 obp? Seasons with 100 RBI +? 4. Career avg of .279?

The HOF is quickly becoming the Hall of Mediocre. What a shame.

bjsguess
5 years 6 months ago

Hitting 30 HR’s in that era was an accomplishment. Check out the league leaders back then and realize that nobody hit 50 HR’s like they do today.

tr2008
5 years 6 months ago

disagree. anyone who wins 8 gold gloves, hits over 400 home runs and 300 steals is the type of player that does EVERYTHING well. dawson is a no brainer to me. only 2 other players had the 400/300, and one of those guys did it artificially

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

Too bad Dawson was never any good at getting on base. Juan Pierre is the sabermetrics whipping boy for his low OBP but his is much better than Dawson’s (348 vs 323).

Quacktastic_Duck
5 years 6 months ago

I am dieing to know where the universal hate for Pierre comes from… I worship a player with speed and talent like that… my ONLY complaint about his is the infamous noodlearm.

icedrake523
5 years 6 months ago

He doesn’t walk enough and needs to hit 300 to keep a respectable OBP. He has no HR power either.

5 years 6 months ago

That’s a HOFer with an 806 career OPS folks. Ranks him 362nd all time. Greg Vaughn had a better OPS. This is absolutely pathetic.

Mercury99
5 years 6 months ago

Did Vaughbn have 400 HR and 300 SB and over 1500 RBIs

5 years 6 months ago

Jason Kendall would have hit 400 HR if he played 60,000 games, whats your point?

Having big raw numbers by playing too long isnt something to be proud of.

steve1280
5 years 6 months ago

you are right. ask bert blyleven and phil niekro…..

crunchy1
5 years 6 months ago

“Jason Kendall would have hit 400 HR if he played 60,000 games”

This may be the most willfully stupid thing I have read on this site.

pdoubleu
5 years 6 months ago

Did Vaughn have 9900 ABs? No. If you’re going to be a compiler, you’ve got to do better than that.

crunchy1
5 years 6 months ago

All the more reason that it’s obvious that OPS doesn’t tell the whole story.

Satrimmons
5 years 6 months ago

The two that voted for Eric Karros should be stripped of their voting rights.

5 years 6 months ago

This is just great!! When I moved up to chicago and started watching the cubs I fell in love with 2 players; Mark Grace and Andre Dawson. Today I’m proud to say one of them is a hall of famer.

I am however very upset that BERT BLYLEVEN is not joining Dawson in the hall this year. How many times are they gonna keep BERT out?? 13 wins shy of 300. Career ERA of 3.31. And the most startling statistic, 3701 STRIKEOUTS!! Hello??? Why is this not Hall of Fame credentials??!?!?!?!?