Gose-Wallace Trade Reactions

Baseball America represents the industry consensus, and given the players' respective rankings it follows that most teams value Brett Wallace more than Anthony Gose.  That Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos made the swap with the Astros yesterday anyway shows that he values his army of scouts over the industry consensus, as he should.  When Anthopoulos came on board he built the largest scouting staff in the Majors and Wallace for Gose represents an interesting test case.  More thoughts on the deal…

  • Anthopoulos explained the trade to MLB.com's Jordan Bastian. He's attempted to acquire Gose from the Phillies multiple times before, and sees him as a potential impact center fielder.  Upside over certainty.
  • ESPN's Keith Law says this trade "could not possibly make less sense to me," and views Wallace as "twice as valuable a prospect as Gose."
  • Dustin Parkes of Drunk Jays Fans points out that value has been lost by the Jays at some point.  His colleague Andrew Stoeten isn't concerned about that, but wonders if the deal is "indicative of an organizational shift regarding the timeline for contention."  He also wonders if the Blue Jays feel they are "jumping off on [Wallace] before his value drops."


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161 Comments on "Gose-Wallace Trade Reactions"


Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Fangraphs had an interesting write-up on Wallace yesterday, pointing out how nearly impossible it seems that he’ll ever reach 3 WAR.

5 years 1 month ago

Right. It seems very possible that Wallace never develops into a great player. But people in baseball still seemed to value him very highly, and, regardless of how Gose turns out, it seems that the Jays could have acquired him for a less valuable asset than Wallace.

mt99808
5 years 1 month ago

If they could have don’t you think they would have? If these clowns like Keith Law and Jim Callis really knew anything about scouting they’d be working for a major league baseball team as a scouting director. Instead they spew semi informed hearsay around the internet and everyone thinks they know what they are talking about.

Personally I have more faith in Tony Lacava and the largest team of scouts in major league baseball than I do in an espn writer.

5 years 1 month ago

I agree- I don’t think it was a bad deal if AA trusts his scouts and likes Gose.

But that is the perception- that Wallace was more valuable. And we have no way of knowing whether or not that is true. The baseball writers are not omniscient, but they are fairly well informed; if they hear from teams that Wallace was considered more valuable than Gose, than he very likely was by at least some teams.

5 years 1 month ago

I agree- I don’t think it was a bad deal if AA trusts his scouts and likes Gose.

But that is the perception- that Wallace was more valuable. And we have no way of knowing whether or not that is true. The baseball writers are not omniscient, but they are fairly well informed; if they hear from teams that Wallace was considered more valuable than Gose, than he very likely was by at least some teams.

chucktb
5 years 1 month ago

Law was a scout for many years.

tucker1980
5 years 1 month ago

Yup… and he was fired by J.P. I love reading his opinion… but I don’t value them. As a fan, it’s hard to swallow that pill. With what the Jays were saying about contending now and getting MLB ready kids. As much as this trade stunned me, a friend of mind re-confort me!!! Remember all those rumors about trading Rios to SF for Cain or Lincecum. Trade never went down because ownership was afraid that the fan base would be angry… and at the time everyone was saying to keep Rios… Well we should of trust J.P… only that time !!!

5 years 1 month ago

the Jays were NEVER going to get Lincecum for Rios. the Jays asked for Lincecum and the Giants said no. the Giants were offering Cain instead. the potential Rios had was more than what Cain had. if Rios had produced with the Jays the way he is with the White Sox then he would still be here. he didn’t all of a sudden become good once he went to Chicago.

plain_g
5 years 1 month ago

no, jays wanted cain and the giants suggested lincecum. everybody loved cain’s body and were terrified of lincecum’s. naturally, this was before lincecum blew up, but even now his velocity is decreasing yearly.

5 years 1 month ago

the Jays were NEVER going to get Lincecum for Rios. the Jays asked for Lincecum and the Giants said no. the Giants were offering Cain instead. the potential Rios had was more than what Cain had. if Rios had produced with the Jays the way he is with the White Sox then he would still be here. he didn’t all of a sudden become good once he went to Chicago.

tucker1980
5 years 1 month ago

Yup… and he was fired by J.P. I love reading his opinion… but I don’t value them. As a fan, it’s hard to swallow that pill. With what the Jays were saying about contending now and getting MLB ready kids. As much as this trade stunned me, a friend of mind re-confort me!!! Remember all those rumors about trading Rios to SF for Cain or Lincecum. Trade never went down because ownership was afraid that the fan base would be angry… and at the time everyone was saying to keep Rios… Well we should of trust J.P… only that time !!!

mt99808
5 years 1 month ago

Key term here is “was”. Do you think Law has ever seen Gose play? Considering he’s 19 and an A ball player I’m gonna go with a no.

mt99808
5 years 1 month ago

Key term here is “was”. Do you think Law has ever seen Gose play? Considering he’s 19 and an A ball player I’m gonna go with a no.

5 years 1 month ago

Law was NOT a scout. He was hired as a number-cruncher during JP Ricciardi’s “Moneyball” ERA. Along the way he has picked up some scouting jargon, but he was never a scout.

5 years 1 month ago

That’s stupid. You obviously have no clue what Moneball actually is.

chucktb
5 years 1 month ago

Law was a scout for many years.

mt99808
5 years 1 month ago

If they could have don’t you think they would have? If these clowns like Keith Law and Jim Callis really knew anything about scouting they’d be working for a major league baseball team as a scouting director. Instead they spew semi informed hearsay around the internet and everyone thinks they know what they are talking about.

Personally I have more faith in Tony Lacava and the largest team of scouts in major league baseball than I do in an espn writer.

johnsmith4
5 years 1 month ago

I understand the basis for your opinion…However, when it came to working out a deal for Gose, it was not possible to get him in the Halladay trade last year…and again…a few days ago the Phillies were not interested in what Toronto had….it came down to Houston naming their price (Wallace) and AA meeting it

This was not a matter of AA shopping Wallace around the league….it was a matter of him identifying Gose as his target.

Gose probably became available in the Oswalt trade because he most likely performed below expectations this year….so…like the Gonzalez trade…AA did the sell high and buy low….typically…to get the “untouchables”…you have to wait for an off year and gamble on them

5 years 1 month ago

I was surprised with the deal, but if 5-years from now Gose is a Torii Hunter/Carl Crawford type, while Wallace is a Lance Berkman type – the Jays win, right?

ClimaClub
5 years 1 month ago

sure, but since wallace has more value as a prospect right now, shouldnt the jays have gotten another player with gose, i dont have a problem with the jays trading wallace, or trading for gose but interms of value AA messed up.

5 years 1 month ago

I posted this in the wrong place.

You can’t always take the safe play. Most great GM’s will take the guy with the highest upside everytime. It is risky, but it could pay off big time.

Maybe the Astros valued Gose almost as high as Wallace, and weren’t willing to part with another prospect. If it was a take it or leave it deal for AA, and he really wanted Gose, you can’t blame him. Seems like he went with his gut and scouts

5 years 1 month ago

I also think the Astros are playing this extremely safe.

They traded one of their two franchise players. Getting Happ and Wallace almost assures them of getting two MLB players in the deal.

They couldn’t have gotten two MLB ready players from the Phillies so they improvised a bit.

5 years 1 month ago

I also think the Astros are playing this extremely safe.

They traded one of their two franchise players. Getting Happ and Wallace almost assures them of getting two MLB players in the deal.

They couldn’t have gotten two MLB ready players from the Phillies so they improvised a bit.

5 years 1 month ago

I posted this in the wrong place.

You can’t always take the safe play. Most great GM’s will take the guy with the highest upside everytime. It is risky, but it could pay off big time.

Maybe the Astros valued Gose almost as high as Wallace, and weren’t willing to part with another prospect. If it was a take it or leave it deal for AA, and he really wanted Gose, you can’t blame him. Seems like he went with his gut and scouts

BHam2421
5 years 1 month ago

If in 5 years, Wallace is a Berkman type and Gose is a Tori Hunter type, then its a win win deal.

shockey12
5 years 1 month ago

Gose is nothing like Torii Hunter. If anything he’s more of a White Juan Pierre.

5 years 1 month ago

A white Juan Pierre? That’s interesting, considering Anthony Gose is black…

5 years 1 month ago

Hahaha^^^ Seems like some people just make stuff up (referring to shockey of course)

BHam2421
5 years 1 month ago

If in 5 years, Wallace is a Berkman type and Gose is a Tori Hunter type, then its a win win deal.

Shoeless_Joe
5 years 1 month ago

This is the first trade where Anthopoulos never hit it out of the ballpark. I mean the Halladay, Escobar and Morrow trades looked great at the time and still do, but this one is questionable at best. While he may covet Gose the price he paid for him was too high. While Wallace is a lock to at least play in the majors, Gose migth never make it out of AA. Our system as is many others are littered with ghosts of athletes past.

ClarenceGaston
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed. I’m not sure how much a stud hitter Wallace would have been, but the reality is that his value was very high and they could have gotten more for him.

blurnandez
5 years 1 month ago

Why do people assume that the Jays could have gotten more for Wallace? How do we know that Wallace’s value hadn’t dropped across the board, and pro scouts and GMs no longer value him as much as they did at even the start of the year?

ClarenceGaston
5 years 1 month ago

Because that is what the experts seem to think based on the fact that Wallace is much more of a sure thing, and is much more projectable. We know that his value hasn’t dropped that much because he is still ranked in the top 50 of BA’s midseason prospects rankings

tucker1980
5 years 1 month ago

Experts?!?!? The only experts to me are the poeple working for teams. Otherwise, your a self-proclaim expert. If they were that good, some teams would hire them.

ClarenceGaston
5 years 1 month ago

Are you saying guys like Rosenthal and Law (though I don’t like him) have ZERO credibility? I think rival execs would agree that Wallace is more valuable. BA, based on their prospects rankings would also agree with me.

tucker1980
5 years 1 month ago

I don’t say they have zero credibility. I just don’t value their opinion as much as AA and Jays scouting staff. I still don’t like the trade. I’m a passionate Jays fan and i was stunned when I saw it. But to AA’s credit, all he made so far are good move. So to hang AA on this or to say he should get can is ridiculous (I know you didn’t say that but some are). Rosenthal and Law and baseball insiders, they have sources. What if his sources, from one team, were really high on Wallace and really low on Gose. Now his analysis will be reflecting his sources. On the other hand, if his sources was the complete opposite, he might take Toronto’s side (which I doubt since he still have a personal agenda against the Jays!). And BA’s rankings are based on BA opinions, not organizational throughout MLB.

ClarenceGaston
5 years 1 month ago

Are you saying guys like Rosenthal and Law (though I don’t like him) have ZERO credibility? I think rival execs would agree that Wallace is more valuable. BA, based on their prospects rankings would also agree with me.

tucker1980
5 years 1 month ago

Experts?!?!? The only experts to me are the poeple working for teams. Otherwise, your a self-proclaim expert. If they were that good, some teams would hire them.

blurnandez
5 years 1 month ago

You’re assuming that ‘expert’ opinion or BA’s ranking is directly related to actual value. It may be from a fans perspective, and maybe an agents’…but pro scouts sure aren’t looking to writers or trade publications for judging value of a player.

So again, we as laymen have no idea what the actual value of Wallace currently is, nor Gose. So it’s really hard to say this trade was a success or failure on either front in terms of value.

It’s simply a ‘wait and see’ situation. Personally, I hope both players end up great, and both HOU and TOR come out as winners.

ClarenceGaston
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed it’s a wait and see BUT as fans all we have to go by is stats and opinions or so the so called “experts”. We have NO idea how much the Jays scouting staff likes certain players and evidently they really like Gose.

What I’m trying to say though is that we have to go by resources such as BA and insiders to project and evaluate talent and value. What else are we supposed to do?

ju1ced
5 years 1 month ago

“How do we know that Wallace’s value hadn’t dropped across the board”

I don’t know, maybe because he’s not hitting .200 with 2HR. His numbers aren’t amazing, but he was rated a top prospect and didn’t bomb this year. How much can your value actually drop? Getting tired of the AA cult fans that are trying to justify the trade, it’s comical. AA REALLY REALLY wanted Gose, Wade asked for a ridiculous amount, and AA caved.

blurnandez
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, because asking questions and trying to understand a trade equates to being an AA fan boy. Settle down.

blurnandez
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, because asking questions and trying to understand a trade equates to being an AA fan boy. Settle down.

5 years 1 month ago

Actually his value could and probably has dropped a lot. Heading into this year he was considered an elite hitting third basemen. He’s since become a good hitting first basemen. Unfortunately, good hitting first basemen are a dime a dozen. If it no longer looks like he’s going to be the elite hitter he was projected to be out of college, and with his move to a less valuable position, his value is considerably less.

ju1ced
5 years 1 month ago

*Hoped* he would be a 3rd basemen. It was a project. His value wasn’t all the sudden high because they labelled him a 3rd basemen. If they would have labelled him an elite hitting 2nd basemen, would his value have been even higher?

ju1ced
5 years 1 month ago

“How do we know that Wallace’s value hadn’t dropped across the board”

I don’t know, maybe because he’s not hitting .200 with 2HR. His numbers aren’t amazing, but he was rated a top prospect and didn’t bomb this year. How much can your value actually drop? Getting tired of the AA cult fans that are trying to justify the trade, it’s comical. AA REALLY REALLY wanted Gose, Wade asked for a ridiculous amount, and AA caved.

blurnandez
5 years 1 month ago

Why do people assume that the Jays could have gotten more for Wallace? How do we know that Wallace’s value hadn’t dropped across the board, and pro scouts and GMs no longer value him as much as they did at even the start of the year?

5 years 1 month ago

the only thing that surprises me about this deal is that AA didn’t swindle the astros for another A-ball prospect or something, leveraging the baseball america rankings his way.

5 years 1 month ago

I like the trade for the Jays. He is telling his scouts that their hard work is not done in vein. It sends them the right message, and can only help his relationship with the most important members of the orgainization.

Without great scouting you become, well, the Astros.

5 years 1 month ago

I deleted this because I replied to the wrong post.

5 years 1 month ago

I deleted this because I replied to the wrong post.

5 years 1 month ago

IF Gose can turn into a CF with a lot of SB AND some power in the future then at that time I will like the trade, but right now I’m scratching my head and wondering why the Jays did this.
I have read that Gose potential once he improves could be someone like Carl Crawford, which would be great. but he could also end up being Michael Bourn/Juan Pierre or even Joey Gathright.
not just what player Gose could be in 3-4+ years down the road, but why did they give up on Wallace who is ready now to contribute. Wallace could have been the Jays starting 1B starting next season. now maybe Anthopoulos really doesn’t like Wallace defense at 1B and figures he can move Lind to 1B and bring in a bat that would be better than Wallace for DH.
even if Anthopoulos is lowering on Wallace, the Jays still could have gotten more for Wallace than just Gose. it could ahve been Gose PLUS for Wallace. it seems Anthopoulos had such a thing for Gose that he didn’t take a step back and think about what else he could have gotten WITH Gose.

the Jays did do plenty of scouting on Gose as he was the player the Jays wanted from the Phillies instead of Taylor, who was sent to Oakland for Wallace. so I guess you could say if the Jays had gotten what they wanted from the Phillies in Gose then Wallace would have never even been involved.

5 years 1 month ago

If your name is made to mock Ed Wade, than I really like it…

5 years 1 month ago

If your name is made to mock Ed Wade, than I really like it…

5 years 1 month ago

IF Gose can turn into a CF with a lot of SB AND some power in the future then at that time I will like the trade, but right now I’m scratching my head and wondering why the Jays did this.
I have read that Gose potential once he improves could be someone like Carl Crawford, which would be great. but he could also end up being Michael Bourn/Juan Pierre or even Joey Gathright.
not just what player Gose could be in 3-4+ years down the road, but why did they give up on Wallace who is ready now to contribute. Wallace could have been the Jays starting 1B starting next season. now maybe Anthopoulos really doesn’t like Wallace defense at 1B and figures he can move Lind to 1B and bring in a bat that would be better than Wallace for DH.
even if Anthopoulos is lowering on Wallace, the Jays still could have gotten more for Wallace than just Gose. it could ahve been Gose PLUS for Wallace. it seems Anthopoulos had such a thing for Gose that he didn’t take a step back and think about what else he could have gotten WITH Gose.

the Jays did do plenty of scouting on Gose as he was the player the Jays wanted from the Phillies instead of Taylor, who was sent to Oakland for Wallace. so I guess you could say if the Jays had gotten what they wanted from the Phillies in Gose then Wallace would have never even been involved.

5 years 1 month ago

My guess is that when the Astro’s agreed to a Wallace/Gose swap AA probably jumped all over it.

All of his scouts love Gose and the jays have been trying to acquire him for awhile.

Though the move to me, shows more of a re-building look for the jays. Since Gose wont be on the jays until Wells contract is near completion.

5 years 1 month ago

And that Wells contract couldn’t end soon enough! Doesn’t that make even more sense though? Have a guy waiting in the wings once your overpaid/albatross of a contract but friendly team leader has to leave?

This move is risky but I like it for the sheer amount of guts it takes to trade a MLB ready prospect for a guy with potential. I look at it this way:

Could the Jays have gotten more for Wallace? Sure.
Would the Astros make the move right away (Gose for Wallace) if they involved one of their prospects in a rather thin system? Likely not.
Would the Jays want to part with one of other prospects within the top 5?
Stewart, Drabek, D’arnaud, JPA? At this point I feel like Wallace was more expendable. (Not like they would take Jenkins or Cooper lol)

So all in all, this move took guts and personally AA has my trust with the moves he’s made so far.

5 years 1 month ago

My guess is that when the Astro’s agreed to a Wallace/Gose swap AA probably jumped all over it.

All of his scouts love Gose and the jays have been trying to acquire him for awhile.

Though the move to me, shows more of a re-building look for the jays. Since Gose wont be on the jays until Wells contract is near completion.

philsWSchamps
5 years 1 month ago

wondering how much their ages have to do with it too. Gose is a fairly seasoned minor leaguer at age 19 (just turned 20) while Wallace is 24 now.

ClimaClub
5 years 1 month ago

i am sure its a big deal, as was the potential upside.

ClimaClub
5 years 1 month ago

i am sure its a big deal, as was the potential upside.

philsWSchamps
5 years 1 month ago

wondering how much their ages have to do with it too. Gose is a fairly seasoned minor leaguer at age 19 (just turned 20) while Wallace is 24 now.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

I’m finally seeing the sense around this. Jays are taking a guess at Wallace’s value dropping potentially and taking in a speedster.

Red_Line_9
5 years 1 month ago

You have to wonder about a “prospect” who at age 24 has been dealt 4 times aleady.

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

He’s been on four teams and has been dealt three times. However, I know what you were trying to convey, and I agree.

Red_Line_9
5 years 1 month ago

You have to wonder about a “prospect” who at age 24 has been dealt 4 times aleady.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

I’m finally seeing the sense around this. Jays are taking a guess at Wallace’s value dropping potentially and taking in a speedster.

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

Michael Taylor is a better prospect than both of them. Wallace value has dropped in the last year, but the initial mistake was trading Taylor to the A’s for Wallace.

BHam2421
5 years 1 month ago

Why is everyone assuming that Wallace’s value has dropped? Just because the guy was traded doesn’t mean his value has dropped. Show me one scout or baseball expert online that have written that his value has dropped. At this point, all that is, is Jay’s fans speculation that his value has dropped.

BHam2421
5 years 1 month ago

Why is everyone assuming that Wallace’s value has dropped? Just because the guy was traded doesn’t mean his value has dropped. Show me one scout or baseball expert online that have written that his value has dropped. At this point, all that is, is Jay’s fans speculation that his value has dropped.

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

Kevin Goldstein: Wallace is the most overrated prospect in baseball.

Brett Wallace is a 1B only with average at best power, poor walk rate — how is that a good prospect?
about 18 hours ago via TweetDeck

Brett Wallace is among the most over-rated prospects around.

link to twitter.com

link to baseballprospectus.com

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

Kevin Goldstein: Wallace is the most overrated prospect in baseball.

Brett Wallace is a 1B only with average at best power, poor walk rate — how is that a good prospect?
about 18 hours ago via TweetDeck

Brett Wallace is among the most over-rated prospects around.

link to twitter.com

link to baseballprospectus.com

johnsmith4
5 years 1 month ago

I believe Wallace has maintained if not increased his value.

ClimaClub
5 years 1 month ago

taylor has regressed this year in AAA, the guy is 24 and still hasent figured it out in AAA

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

He had a slow start with a good K/BB nonetheless. He’s batting .338/.427/.468 in July. He’s 6’6″, 260 lbs. and he stole 21 bases (in 26 attempts) last year between AA/AAA and can actually field his position well.

Didn’t say he’s the perfect prospect, but I’d rather have him than Wallace or Gose.

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

He had a slow start with a good K/BB nonetheless. He’s batting .338/.427/.468 in July. He’s 6’6″, 260 lbs. and he stole 21 bases (in 26 attempts) last year between AA/AAA and can actually field his position well.

Didn’t say he’s the perfect prospect, but I’d rather have him than Wallace or Gose.

philsWSchamps
5 years 1 month ago

agreed. The Phils definitely chose right when choosing last year between Brown and Taylor.

Wondering if they thought Jiwan James could develop into a “poor man’s Gose” as well which made Gose expendable a bit. That and the fact that prospects like Leandro Castro and Dom Santiago in lower levels had a potential higher upside than Gose. If one of those “hits” as a prospect then losing Gose will hurt much less.

philsWSchamps
5 years 1 month ago

agreed. The Phils definitely chose right when choosing last year between Brown and Taylor.

Wondering if they thought Jiwan James could develop into a “poor man’s Gose” as well which made Gose expendable a bit. That and the fact that prospects like Leandro Castro and Dom Santiago in lower levels had a potential higher upside than Gose. If one of those “hits” as a prospect then losing Gose will hurt much less.

ClimaClub
5 years 1 month ago

taylor has regressed this year in AAA, the guy is 24 and still hasent figured it out in AAA

Sophist4
5 years 1 month ago

Michael Taylor is a better prospect than both of them. Wallace value has dropped in the last year, but the initial mistake was trading Taylor to the A’s for Wallace.

CyMorrow
5 years 1 month ago

I took in the Jays’ series in Philadelphia which was attended by about a dozen scouts. After tone of the games, I asked one of them for his thoughts on Wallace. He said he could hit but he fielded “like a garbage can with feet”. My guess is that Wallace’s poor glove and lack of speed make him less of a prospect than many think. BTW, same scout loves Brandon Morrow and can’t believe that the Jays managed to get him for Brandon League.

chucktb
5 years 1 month ago

Wasn’t this true a year ago, then, when the Jays traded Michael Taylor for him? What’s changed about Wallace’s glove in the last 12 months?

johnsmith4
5 years 1 month ago

Nothing….Jays settled for Taylor because Philly wouldn’t give them Gose in the Halladay trade.

johnsmith4
5 years 1 month ago

Nothing….Jays settled for Taylor because Philly wouldn’t give them Gose in the Halladay trade.

CyMorrow
5 years 1 month ago

I doubt that the glove is the only issue with Wallace. AA wants to get more athletic and faster and did that by trading Wallace for Gose.

CyMorrow
5 years 1 month ago

I doubt that the glove is the only issue with Wallace. AA wants to get more athletic and faster and did that by trading Wallace for Gose.

chucktb
5 years 1 month ago

Wasn’t this true a year ago, then, when the Jays traded Michael Taylor for him? What’s changed about Wallace’s glove in the last 12 months?

Taskmaster75
5 years 1 month ago

Everybody knows fielding was Wallace’s greatest weakness. It’s (in my view) the entire reason that the Cardinals were willing to deal him for Matt Holliday, because if he couldn’t play 3rd (They tried him in the OF, didn’t work either), he had no room in the organization. His next 2 teams trading him lead me to believe that this is universal view in MLB, as they both see him as a 1b/DH type.

The Jays have Overbay, Lind, and several others that can play 1b and DH, whereas the Astros seem to lack depth in many positions overall. Wallace will fit well with them, but as a Cardinal fan, it feels kind of weird personally.

5 years 1 month ago

FINALLY….someone mentioning fielding. I’ve been reading / hearing about how Baseball is moving away from the one dimensional DH type slugger (read: Adam Dunn types) towards the more rounded and valuable athlete. Wallace is a one dimensional player who will struggle in the National League since it has no natural position to slot him into. Being a defensive liability is no different than being an offensive one.

As far as I can tell this is a simple 1:1 position play where AA saw a chance to get better at a position where the team didn’t have too much organizational depth. the Jays have at least 3 major league ready players who can / are playing 1B (lind, overbay, snider). There are also many many other 1B’s available that can actually hit and field. Wallace was basically surplus, so why not get value out of him while you can.

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

“FINALLY….someone mentioning fielding. I’ve been reading / hearing about how Baseball is moving away from the one dimensional DH type slugger (read: Adam Dunn types) towards the more rounded and valuable athlete.”

I believe your post should’ve said (read: David Ortiz types)

I can care less for Dunn but if there is a player that epitomizes a “one dimensional DH type slugger”, then that my friend would be David Ortiz.

I wonder if Ortiz even remembers how to put on a fielders glove.

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

“FINALLY….someone mentioning fielding. I’ve been reading / hearing about how Baseball is moving away from the one dimensional DH type slugger (read: Adam Dunn types) towards the more rounded and valuable athlete.”

I believe your post should’ve said (read: David Ortiz types)

I can care less for Dunn but if there is a player that epitomizes a “one dimensional DH type slugger”, then that my friend would be David Ortiz.

I wonder if Ortiz even remembers how to put on a fielders glove.

5 years 1 month ago

FINALLY….someone mentioning fielding. I’ve been reading / hearing about how Baseball is moving away from the one dimensional DH type slugger (read: Adam Dunn types) towards the more rounded and valuable athlete. Wallace is a one dimensional player who will struggle in the National League since it has no natural position to slot him into. Being a defensive liability is no different than being an offensive one.

As far as I can tell this is a simple 1:1 position play where AA saw a chance to get better at a position where the team didn’t have too much organizational depth. the Jays have at least 3 major league ready players who can / are playing 1B (lind, overbay, snider). There are also many many other 1B’s available that can actually hit and field. Wallace was basically surplus, so why not get value out of him while you can.

Triteon
5 years 1 month ago

I said this yesterday on a different board — the more times Wallace is moved (three trades in 12 months) the deal to send him (and others) for Holliday looks better and better. Granted, he’s offered a better shot at success in Houston over Toronto, but my confidence that this kid is for real is dwindling. Hopefully I’m right, at least when I see him at Busch.

Taskmaster75
5 years 1 month ago

Originally, I liked the deal when he was finally traded, since from what I saw, he was never 3B or OF material anyway. All he had to be was below average, and I thought that his bat would make up for the lost value on defense, but if 2 other organizations with holes at 3b are trading him, then clearly 3B is no longer an option for him. Hopefully he does well at Houston (But not against the Cardinals :D) To be honest, I am more saddened that we traded Mortenson. We could really use some SP depth at the moment…

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

“To be honest, I am more saddened that we traded Mortenson. We could really use some SP depth at the moment…”

Then how would you describe your feelings for giving Haren away?

Taskmaster75
5 years 1 month ago

If we were to grab a top-o-the-line starter, Haren would have been the guy, but the Cardinals didn’t have anything tangible that they could give the Dbacks, as in they couldn’t trade the Dbacks anyone that would make people in Arizona still attend ball games, whereas they could flash Joe Saunders to the public, and they seem to be rather high on the people they acquired in prospects and the PTBNL, so we will see, but personally, the Cardinals could have matched it from a value standpoint in prospects.

But I won’t miss his salary, as Pujols is a bigger problem atm.

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

I think you misunderstood me, that, or I misspoke. I was just reminding you that you once had Haren and gave him away so losing Mortenson shouldn’t be that big a deal.

sacu
5 years 1 month ago

“To be honest, I am more saddened that we traded Mortenson. We could really use some SP depth at the moment…”

Then how would you describe your feelings for giving Haren away?

Taskmaster75
5 years 1 month ago

Everybody knows fielding was Wallace’s greatest weakness. It’s (in my view) the entire reason that the Cardinals were willing to deal him for Matt Holliday, because if he couldn’t play 3rd (They tried him in the OF, didn’t work either), he had no room in the organization. His next 2 teams trading him lead me to believe that this is universal view in MLB, as they both see him as a 1b/DH type.

The Jays have Overbay, Lind, and several others that can play 1b and DH, whereas the Astros seem to lack depth in many positions overall. Wallace will fit well with them, but as a Cardinal fan, it feels kind of weird personally.

CyMorrow
5 years 1 month ago

I took in the Jays’ series in Philadelphia which was attended by about a dozen scouts. After tone of the games, I asked one of them for his thoughts on Wallace. He said he could hit but he fielded “like a garbage can with feet”. My guess is that Wallace’s poor glove and lack of speed make him less of a prospect than many think. BTW, same scout loves Brandon Morrow and can’t believe that the Jays managed to get him for Brandon League.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

If the Jays were planning on competing in 2011-2012 and Wallace’s bat is the difference maker, then the Jays aren’t really in bad shape. Is Wallace’s bat REALLY the difference between the Jays competing in the next two years? If it is, then move Lind to 1B, Bautista to 3B, Lewis/Snider/Wells in the OF, and just sign a DH. I’m fairly confident they can sign a DH that can replace Wallace’s bat. There’s no question Lind can replace Wallace’s defensive “value” at 1B. If you think about it, why keep Wallace when you can replace him every year with a 1-year DH deal + get a very high upside CF? THat’s the best I can do, in terms of understanding this trade.

Mick_In_Ithaca
5 years 1 month ago

Exactly. Well put. And I would add that AA probably isn’t done yet. Maybe the bat that will replace Wallace’s (or be better than Wallace’s) will materialize in the next trade or two. Maybe there’s a blockbuster in the works for Singleton, Montero, who knows?

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

If the Jays were planning on competing in 2011-2012 and Wallace’s bat is the difference maker, then the Jays aren’t really in bad shape. Is Wallace’s bat REALLY the difference between the Jays competing in the next two years? If it is, then move Lind to 1B, Bautista to 3B, Lewis/Snider/Wells in the OF, and just sign a DH. I’m fairly confident they can sign a DH that can replace Wallace’s bat. There’s no question Lind can replace Wallace’s defensive “value” at 1B. If you think about it, why keep Wallace when you can replace him every year with a 1-year DH deal + get a very high upside CF? THat’s the best I can do, in terms of understanding this trade.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

I think another thing worth noting is that this is still only Wallace’s first season playing first base. I would think he stands a good chance to improve as he gets more experience at the position. Granted, it’s also possible that he may never be a good fielder…but seeing how the Astros are rebuilding now, he should get plenty of time to try and figure it out. Idk if I’m totally on board w/ fangraphs article about him never being a 3.0 WAR player…everyone knows he can hit

Also, Gose sounds like he can play…he’s just a guy the Astros have a surplus of in their system. Which made the Oswalt deal appear horrible at first. I think AA should have tried to get more for Wallace, but I don’t think he got completely hosed either. Even if he is Michael Bourn 2.0…Michael Bourn isn’t a bad player