Odds & Ends: Choo, Nationals, Lee, Pujols

Links for Tuesday night, as Cliff Lee and the Rangers look to advance to the ALCS….


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60 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Choo, Nationals, Lee, Pujols"


wickedkevin
4 years 10 months ago

Pujols will make much more than Lebron too. And hopefully NOT make an ESPN SPECIAL ON IT!

4 years 10 months ago

Well he will obviously make more that LeBron since in the NBA there is a max contract that a player can sign and there is no max contract in the MLB to my knowledge. With LBJ’s age and ability, if there was no max contract in the NBA, he most likely would have pulled in a bigger contract than Pujols.

jwsox
4 years 10 months ago

nope….albert is a once in a life time game changer…lebron is a bigger kobe…look at NBA history players like lebron come around more often the you think..heck since jordan(the nba’s version of albert) there has been kobe, mcgrady, howard, melo, lebron, wade, staudimire(sp horrible i know) bosch, etc…there is always an elite player of lebrons stature in the nba ever 3-4 years there has not been a player like albert since albert came in the league

Joe L
4 years 10 months ago

Pujols is definitely a once in a lifetime game changer but so is LeBron and he’s a very special player. To say “lebron is a bigger kobe” doesn’t help your argument because BOTH are once in a lifetime game changers themselves, and will go down in history as 2 of the greatest. Where your argument is flawed is including guys like McGrady, Bosh* and Stoudemire* in a class with LeBron and Kobe, as they never were and never will be. Melo, Wade, and Howard aren’t either, but they’re closer than the aforementioned 3. Also, there is no way of telling what LeBron could have gotten were there no max contract due to the salary cap which doesn’t exist in MLB, but one can imagine if the NBA did not have a cap, some team (Knicks, Nets, Heat, etc.) would have offered LeBron AT LEAST $25 MM annually. Of course, we’ll never know, but it certainly could have been possible.Albert is also not the MLB equivalent to Jordan, for the record, at least not yet. That’s just not fair to either of them.

Tko11
4 years 10 months ago

With all due respect thats a horrible argument. There are many elite players in the mlb…not just Pujols. Seems like thats what youre saying. Arod, Votto, Tulo, Manny(a few years ago) etc. Every sport has its tier of elite players…who are game changers.

Shikikazu
4 years 10 months ago

You can’t compare Pujols to Jordan, Jordan completely dominated the game, he is considered the best player in the history of basketball by the majority while you can argue that many hall of famers are better than Pujols. Good comparisons for Jordan in other sports would be Koufax,Ruth,Bonds(before he got found out),Ted Williams,Wayne Gretzsky, Pele,

Taskmaster75
4 years 10 months ago

You underestimate just how good Albert is. He would most likely be a HoFer if he retired now, and he still has probably 7-8 years left, with 3-5 of his typical run production.

4 years 10 months ago

You think Bonds is better than Pujols? You are either on crack or you are a serious SFO homer. Hopefully you get laughed off of this forum.

Pujols is putting up Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, and Ted Williams numbers. Get the @#$@ out of here!

Shikikazu
4 years 10 months ago

Being GOOD is one thing I never said Bonds was better he was a better comparison for dominance. Pujols is model of consistency and belongs in the HOF but he never dominated the game. I’m sure that Bonds dominated the game from 2001-2004 where the next closest comparison especially in 2001 is not close. Miguel Cabrera, Joey Votto, Josh Hamilton and Carlos Gonzalez have put up similar stats to Pujols this year. Gehrig, Ruth, and Williams put up those numbers in a different time, 40 homeruns now are different from 40 homeruns then. They had RECORDS that lasted for what I’d call a while.

Taskmaster75
4 years 10 months ago

If the European teams were willing to offer 50 million a year to Kobe, there’s no telling what he could get here without the salary cap.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

1. I don’t think the Indians are that far from winning. They had one of the best drafts this year and the system is there. A healthy team in a year or two might be able to compete.

2. So there’s going to be an hour long special on ESPN involving King Albert announcing what team he’ll go to? ESPN or MLB Network?

wickedkevin
4 years 10 months ago

Actually, it will be on ABC, CBS, FOX, CNN, MLB, NFL, HBO, BET, NBC, Comedy Central will be playing Lebron’s the decision, and Vh1 will be playing the surreal life with Jose Canseco. Also, MTV will play music videos (ha!).

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

and C-Span.

(Sorry for always having Denard Span connections)

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Followed by the Cardinals brass saying he never tried during the playoffs…

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

priceless.

5_tool_MiLB_fool
4 years 10 months ago

im tired of seeing the nats name everywhere in possible big name free-agent signings. they’re coming off yet another horrid season and they have one of the worst farm systems in baseball with the exception of harper. so please, stop thinking the nationals are the yankees or something

wickedkevin
4 years 10 months ago

So only the Yankees can have their name plastered next to every big name free agent? Thanks for pointing out what is wrong with baseball. God forbid the Nats try and make a big signing. They did offer $160 mil to Teixeira, btw.

MB923
4 years 10 months ago

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the Yankees offered the highest amount of money to Tex. Yearly average wise they did, but I think there was a team willing to offer Tex $200 million but for 10 years.

By the way, the Nationals owner is the richest owner in baseball.

Ian_Smell
4 years 10 months ago

I agree. They haven’t signed a big name player ever, yet they are constantly linked to them. People act like the Nationals are already some dynamic team.

squadwagon6
4 years 10 months ago

They r not far off from contending brah

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

You’d make a great commissioner with your only teams spending a lot of money can talk about trying to sign a player for a lot of money policy.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

Okay, well they actually don’t have a bad farm system dawg.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

Yet another troll who has no idea what he’s talking about. I’ll just keep shaking my head at you…

Ian_Smell
4 years 10 months ago

Choo and his double-flapped helmet should stay in Cleveland.

Redbirds16
4 years 10 months ago

Seriously though, when have the Yankees aggressively pursued (Johnny Damon doesn’t count) a free agent and NOT signed him? Can anyone name ONE player in the last decade? Last two decades?

4 years 10 months ago

Greg Maddux

Redbirds16
4 years 10 months ago

Really? Never heard that one…

4 years 10 months ago

He took less money to sign with the Braves because he knew the combination of him, Glavine, and Smoltz would be the best in baseball. It ended up being the best in baseball history.

Redbirds16
4 years 10 months ago

I knew I liked that guy.

4 years 10 months ago

They were also 0 for 2 against the Yankees in the World Series, putting up a record of 2-8 in the process.

Just think how many more wins Maddux would have recorded during all those years of sub 3.00 era’s if he had a little more run support.

Slopeboy
4 years 10 months ago

He took less money from Atlanta because he used NY to raise the price to where he wanted it. He never had intentions to play for Steinbrenner. That was the ploy many agents were using at the time.

$1529282
4 years 10 months ago

Do you count international amateurs? They were connected to both Chapman and Sano, but didn’t get either. There was Derek Lowe talk for awhile too before he signed in Atlanta, though I don’t know how hard they ever actually pursued him. Probably not much since that was the Tex/CC/AJ free agent year.

But of course they get all the FAs they want. The Yankees pay the most, therefore they get the best talent, and therefore they win the most, etc. etc. etc.

It’s why every Yankee fan loves them and says they’re the best organization, and why every other fan in baseball hates them. Both standpoints are completely justified.

I only wish I’d been born in the Bronx, so the very sight of Yankee pinstripes and Derek Jeter’s smug face didn’t make me want to puke. Unfortunately, I got Saint Paul. Oh well… could be worse. Could’ve been born in Montreal and lost my team entirely.

wickedkevin
4 years 10 months ago

Dice-K? Didn’t they drop a $30 mil posting fee for him?

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Yeah, both the yanks and Mets supposedly had bids somewhere near $30M. And the yanks used the money they saved on Matsuzaka and bid on Igawa…

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

And you’d be a Canadian…

Something tells me if I ever tried to cross the Canadian boarder I’d be shot instantly…

ZeroZeroZero
4 years 10 months ago

It would definitely be interesting if Pujols hit free agency. He is obviously the most valuable player in MLB but how much would he be worth on the open market? The Yankees wouldnt be in on him since Tex is signed for quite a while. The Red Sox would be interested but they have also been reluctant to go all out to sign free agents to huge and long contracts. The other big spenders are the Mets, Phillies, and Cubs. The Phillies wont be in on it with Ryan Howard around. I just dont see him getting the nearly $30m a year he probably deserves.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

No, the Red Sox aren’t reluctant to sign big contracts, their spending just tends to be compared to the yanks spending. If, God willing, Pujols hits the FA market, expect Theo to offer a huge deal and don’t be shocked to see the yanks make him an offer to DH.

ZeroZeroZero
4 years 10 months ago

The Red Sox are reluctant to sign big deals. If they werent, Tex would be on the Red Sox right now.
I really cant imagine the Cardinals not taking care of Pujols though. You just dont let a once in a generation talent slip through your fingers.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

With any deal there’s a point where you walk away because you think cost will exceed benefit. If you think the back end of a deal is going to be more of a problem than the front end is a benefit, you walk away. Theo runs the team based on sabermetrics which basically applies the principles of Game Theory to baseball. Whatever “reluctance” there is it is due to the idea of the cost exceeding the benefit.

You know what’s funny… the Mariners had a once in a life time talent in 2000 and let him sign with the Rangers. The 2001 Mariners turned out to be one of the best teams ever.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

I guess he threw that formula out the window for John Lackey and Mike Cameron. Both of those deals seem as if they overpaid.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

They make sense in a grander plan but not individually. Over the last couple of years one of the achilles heels of the Red Sox has been defense. The only other time Cameron missed so many games in a season was when he had a head on collision with Beltran. I think the price tag was a little high, but I still think it was more of a matter of bad luck than a bad signing. Game Theory can’t take into account every variable.

As for Lackey. I think my first action when I heard about that was to call up my father and say “dear God why.” Ultimately though when your GM is the first one in years to turn your team into a legit contender and bring you 2 world series titles, you tend to trust and remember you’re just an armchair GM.

andrewyf
4 years 10 months ago

Then when you realize signing John Lackey took the Red Sox completely out of the running for Cliff Lee, you’ll tend to see that even boy geniuses can make huge mistakes from time to time.

Slopeboy
4 years 10 months ago

That’s not entirely correct. The Red Sox are not reluctant to sign big deals. What they often try to do is low ball the FA’s at times when they feel they have the upper hand.They seem to overplay their hand at times and it’s backfired on a couple of pivotable occasions. The A-Rod deal fell through because they wanted him to alter the contract substantially in their favor. A-Rod, wanting to play for a winner agreed, but was refuted by the Players Union. Then NY swooped in with their cash. The deal with Tex fell through because NY claimed that they did not have money in their budget to bid for him. Boston thinking that they had no competition, decided to try and low ball Tex and gave him and his agent a signing date deadline, a take it or leave ultimatum. Boras ran to the Yankees and the money was found. When the Sox really want a player they’ll spend. They Bid $50 Million for the rights to Dice-K and bid high again for Lackey out of fear that someone else would put in a large bid. Boston is not afraid to spend, it’s just that they try to save money and sometimes use the wrong tactics in doing so.It’s going to be interesting watching what they do with all the important decisions coming up.

pastlives
4 years 10 months ago

I disagree with the Pujols thing – you really can’t compare 1 player’s impact in basketball to 1 player’s impact in baseball, it’s totally different. I also don’t think it would impact St. Louis that badly in terms of on-field product, provided they replace Pujols. Provided the Cards have the cash, say Pujols walks and takes a 250M deal from Boston, the Cards could sign Adrian Gonzalez for 180-200M and pour another 50M into the rest of their ailing offense. Christ, the team would probably be better.

4 years 10 months ago

You can compare them because of if you think of it, Cleveland lost a lot of money and revenue when James go. St. Louis will be the same way, lost the sells on tickets and lost the uniform sells and other stuff that could go with him. Adrian Gonzalez is just not the same player as Pujols.

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

Yeah, Chris, I hate it when those Korean-speaking reporters misquote those Korean-speaking ballplayers.

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

Unless Pujols commits to taking a hometown discount, as blasphemous as what I am about to type might sound to Cardinals fans, the Cardinals would be better off without him. Pujols is just so damn good that if you paid him what he’s worth, he’d cripple your franchise even if he produced or exceeded his expected output. And that would be true for just about any franchise that signed him, perhaps excluding the Yankees. It’s a tough position for sure for the Cards front office. On the one hand, they can sign him for what he’s worth and make the fans happy and field a fairly competitive to non-competitive 2- or 3-man team. On the other, they can let him walk, alienate their fanbase (who will still show up for games because they have a lot of red clothing that they need to wear somewhere), and field a more complete ballclub that’s better suited to winning.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

For thine blasphemy thou must go out into the streets of St. Louis and shout “The Cubs will win a world series before the Cardinals ever win again.”

Guest
4 years 10 months ago

This is true. Just look at the Rangers after they signed A-Rod to that monster deal. A-Rod, steroids or not, had monster seasons in TX. And on top of that, he was a gold glove caliber fielder at a premium defensive position. So it’s hard to say he didn’t live up to the deal w/ his production. But the Rangers couldn’t afford to field a competitive team around him, and their ex owner wound up filing for bankruptcy

Obviously, the Cardinals situation with Pujols is different, as he is a homegrown superstar who’s led them to a title, been a standup guy and has been the face of the franchise for most of the last decade. But aside from the Yankees, nobody can afford the kinds of contracts these guys deserve (relatively speaking…nobody deserves 200 mil + to play baseball) without crippling the franchise

The idea of the Cardinals letting Pujols walk, or trading him if they can’t reach an extension may not be such a suicidal idea for them

jwsox
4 years 10 months ago

i would have to say the ESPN thing would first have to jockey for the rights over mlb network…and you cant compare albert to lebron simply because of one thing at the bare minimum..albert has won it all lebron has not…

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Ok, I’ve read the other comments on the whole LeBron/Pujols thing and well, I’m the kind of person who is compelled to state their mind.I know a lot about baseball because I’ve followed it for years as if it was a religion. As for basketball, all I really know is I want the Celtics to win because of the whole being from New England thing. But after watching ESPN over the summer I can say I don’t dislike LeBron because he left his home town team, but rather because I felt he was putting himself above the game. For the last couple of years it felt to me that the storyline of the NBA was LeBron James screaming “look at me, I’m better than Kobe!” And I tend to dislike egos that big.On the other hand Pujols seems to have gone out of his way to show he is simply part of the game and wants to be part of a team striving for a championship. I think that’s what a lot of us like about him… he’s a guy who wants to be the best teammate possible. And as Forrest Gump said, that’s all I have to say about that.

Tko11
4 years 10 months ago

Yea except Lebron’s hometown is Akron and not Cleveland…so he wasnt really leaving his hometown. I believe he actually said that people from Akron hate people from Cleveland.

cursedcleveland
4 years 10 months ago

No, Lebron James hates people from Cleveland. Pujols is class, Lebron is not. End of story.

phil33
4 years 10 months ago

Except when hes whining about not getting the MVP. Wouldn’t call that classy.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

People from Akron hate being treated as if they are just a suburb of Cleveland instead of a fully autonomous city with their own mayor, etc. I live in Cleveland but wasn’t born or rasied here. I feel for some of the local teams simply because of the frustration the fans have felt from not winning. I became a fan of the Cavs when Lebron came. I, like many others, felt dissapointed that LeBron left for Miami. However, I hated him, and still harbor ill feelings towards him, because of HOW he left. I thought there was no way he would go on national TV to announce he was leaving. He shocked me. I’ve never met him personally but am quite fmailiar with a couple of his “Four Hourseman” inner circle that handle his marketing and personal business. Many of them were split on wanting to stay or go. I think if he had chosen a better, simpler way of announcing he was leaving then the act wouldn’t have been as bitter.

In the grander scheme of things Lebron, and I hesistate to call any mega millionaire, mega egotistical athlete a “victim”, but he is, in a sense, a victim of this recent trend of evaluating a superstars historic career by how many championships he obtains. After the money, the scoring titles, the MVP awards the next thing, and most important thing to most, is winning a championship. No watter what personal awards he racksup ppl won’t consider him to be among the greats (MJ, Bird, Magic) until he wins multiple rings. If he had one 1 w/ the Cavs he would be an Ohio legend and would have their hearts forever. But if he only wins 1 he “just” enters the realm of guys like WIlt Chamberlain. If he win 4 or 5 then he enters the world of sports immortality. SO while he must take blame for his actions I, as a Libra, have to at least consider the reasons behind his choice to go the easy route and joine forces with Bosh and Wade in Miami.

As for comparing Pujols with Lebron, I don’t see it the same way. He’s done all he can for the team by winning a WS ring for them, the 1st since 1985 I think and he has won all the personal awards. Now it’s time for him to at least get a salary that puts him into the top 5 of the game. That will probably mean at least $23 mil per (less than Arod but the same or more as Jeter, Manny, Tex, VWells, Mauer’s past contracts). As long as he isn’t looking for Arod money, which was a bad precedent set by the Rangers, then St. Louis needs to sign this guy. Even if it meant going to $25 mil they should find a way. I’m sure Pujols would be open to creative options. However, even if they kept Holliday to try and appease Pujols and stay competitve, there’s no way they can justify giving him $18 mil per and then NOT signing Pujols at all costs. Anything south of $25 mil is a must do for the Cards even if it means they’ll be handcuffed a little. If they can learn to develop their farm and to replace guys like Suppan and Lohse with guys from the farm then they can save $24 mil right there.

AceGunderson
4 years 10 months ago

Hey, I love Pujols as much as the next non-Cards baseball fan. That said, I just don’t see the EXTREME views of him and his “deserved” contract. To compare him to Lebron is ludicrous. Their free market worth is not equal. For argument’s sake, let’s take away the restriction of the NBA salary cap.

First off, you could sign Lebron to an 8 year deal and expect him to be in his prime for the whole contract. Same can’t be said for Pujols. And I gotta say, Pujols is no Jordan…let’s face facts, no one is. I think Pujols is the best offensive player in baseball, but signing him does not make ANY team instantly a playoff contender (Pirates, Royals, Indians, etc.) Any team Lebron went to was instantly a playoff (championship?) contender (his career with the Cavs attests to this). That’s the nature of the sports…but if it was an open market, I think Lebron currently brings more to the table than Pujols, and bottom line, gets more money.

“The Decision” aside, as a FA, he is one of the elite marketable athletes in the world. While I do think Pujols is very likable and marketable, he’s not very close to Lebron in that respect.

I just hope a team doesn’t go up to 8-10 years for Pujols and get crippled when his production isn’t matching his contract, as will inevitably happen in his mid-30s. Hey, I’m a Yanks fan…the team has several of those types of long-term contracts already in progress (A-Rod, sigh) or WILL happen down the line (Tex, CC). I would say to Pujols to take that long term contract if he can and run with it…but from a team’s standpoint, just make sure the success of the first half of the contract outweighs the probable albatross in the second half of it.

4 years 10 months ago

I agree with this assessment, for the most part. Basketball and Baseball are two completely different sports. You can have one really good player in Basketball and have such an impact that this one player can win you games despite the teammates around him. Baseball isn’t like this, as we know.

I think Pujols is just as talented as Jordan, but because the differences in their games, Jordan was able to have a much larger effect.

MetsEventually
4 years 10 months ago

Beltran for Choo, lol

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

how about Johnny Damon? Choosing the Tigers offer rather than the 4MM or whatever the Yankees offered a year ago?

Dave_Gershman
4 years 10 months ago

Because he wanted to be noble