Vernon Wells Notes: Rangers, Blue Jays, Angels

You know a trade is big when Sports Illustrated, ESPN and the Wall Street Journal are chattering about it nearly a week later. Here are some Vernon Wells-related links from around the Internet…

  • Angels owner Arte Moreno says the Angels and Blue Jays discussed a Wells deal a couple weeks ago, let talks simmer for a while and revived the trade last week, according to Bill Shaikin of the LA Times (Twitter links). Moreno says the flood of criticism directed his team's way has not bothered him.
  • The Blue Jays discussed a potential deal with the Rangers, but would likely have had to pay more money to make the trade happen, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com. Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos told Heyman that the Blue Jays front office ”never engaged significantly" with clubs other than the Angels. "The other teams just were inquiring and that's how far the conversation went," Anthopoulos said. 
  • A longtime talent evaluator reminded ESPN.com's Buster Olney that Wells is, in fact, a good player. "The Angels should've been able to get the Jays to eat some money in the trade, but what I think is being forgotten is that Anaheim is getting a pretty good player. He makes them better than what they were going to be," the evaluator told Olney. 
  • In a piece for the Wall Street Journal Dave Cameron points out just how expensive the Angels' outfield has become (don't forget about Gary Matthews Jr.).


109 Responses to Vernon Wells Notes: Rangers, Blue Jays, Angels Leave a Reply

  1. Finally an optimistic outlook on the trade, financially ouch, but otherwise the angels did receive a good player.

    • Dave Cameron, FanGraphs: “2007-2010, outfielders with similar [weighted on-base average] to Vernon Wells: Randy Winn, Chris Young, Aaron Rowand. . . . Adrian Beltre produced more value (+7.1 [Wins Above Replacement]) in 2010 than Wells did in the last four years combined (+7.0).”

    • RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

      They could have paid less for Beltre, a much better player at a position they needed help at, without giving up ANY talent at all!

    • Certainly, once you’ve fallen, it’s wise to get back up. There’s no point in crying over spilled milk. I empathize with the idea of accepting that the Wells trade was the worst in MLB history and to look on the bright side. Wells is an adequate player who would start for most teams.

      I can assure you, however, that no intelligent Angel fan would have agreed to this trade.

  2. fortunes4 5 years ago

    And the Angels OF is expensive. Did someone forget about the Yankee infield!!

    • The difference is that the Yankee infield has a lot of elite talent. Even with decline, ARod and Tex are well above-average players and Jeter is still one of the better offensive SS in the game. And of course the cheapest of them, Cano, is the best of them.

      • BK 5 years ago

        Jeter is not the best anything in the game. Also, the back half of the Arod and Tex contracts are going to be pretty awful.

        • Sniderlover 5 years ago

          He said one of the better offensive SS.

          • Thank you. Reading comprehension isn’t one of the strong points on of the internet.

          • Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

            I’m not so sure he is one of the better offensive SS’s anymore. I could be wrong, but I think he ranked 21st last year in SS’s for OPS.

        • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

          bitter much?

    • monster55 5 years ago

      The Angels don’t quite have the resources to spend (or waste, depending on how you look at it), that the Yankees do.

      • MB923 5 years ago

        True, but only until 5 years ago, when they were previously owned by Walt Disney instead of Moreno.

      • *Their multi-billionaire owner laughs at your post

        • monster55 5 years ago

          And if their multi-billionaire owner wants to personally pay for contracts, instead of having revenue pay for contracts (like the Yankees), he should feel free to do that. I doubt the Steinbrenners are even top-10 richest owners in baseball, but their team is far and away number 1 in revenue and spending.

          • MB923 5 years ago

            They are in the top 10 from when I last heard, but not in the top 5.

          • bjsguess 5 years ago

            They lost $10m last year with a payroll of $120m. You can’t compare the revenue stream of Boston/NY to the Angels. Not in the same league.

          • MB923 5 years ago

            I was referring to the Steinbrenners. Not the Angels.

        • MaineSox 5 years ago

          Apparently even billions can’t buy good sense.

        • Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

          Well, if Steinbrenner was worth $1.5billion before he passed away, I don’t think Hank and Hal have had enough time to make that $500mil to be “multi-billionaire owners.”

  3. monster55 5 years ago

    And whichever “talent evaluator” told that to Olney is a complete moron.

  4. JP 5 years ago

    He was a good player in 06, 08 and 10.

    His numbers in 05, 07 and 09 were fairly atrocious.

  5. the yankee infield is actually good, though.

    • MaineSox 5 years ago

      Offensively I’ll give that to you; defensively not so much, particularly on the left side.

      • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

        Jeter is a gold glover and A-Rod is one of the better defensive 3b in the league. Your wrong.

        • Because gold gloves are a valuable statistical metric for defensive ability nowadays… right. More like “hey I’m a popular fan favorite, always in the media, have multi-million dollar endorsement deals and I’m a Yankee. Gold Glove please!”

        • chreeschan 5 years ago

          Those are some excellent facts to support your point.

        • MaineSox 5 years ago

          Yeah, about that…

        • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

          Yikes…do we really have to go through this again?

  6. jwsox 5 years ago

    better than what they would have been? they gave up a 20+ home run left fielder and gave up a 20-30+ hr catcher for vernon who has hit over 30 3 times in his career ’10 was he first since ’06 and he has never gone over 35

    • Napoli isn’t going to get much play time in Texas or where he was in Anaheim. And Juan isn’t much of a threat anymore. You tend to cringe when he came to bat or if a ball was hit towards him.

  7. This is the case for many players if you look up their home and away lines. They also get comfortable when they make a new stadium home.

    Just give it time. You can’t make a for sure determination for a whole new season. Let him play and practice in Anaheim for a bit.

  8. Buster Olney never says anything bad about someone who is bigger than him.

  9. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    They might as well say AA is the executive of the year now. I can’t think of any combination of moves that will match up with the long term effects of getting rid of Vernon Wells and barely having to pay for it.

    • RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

      i agree that the Wells contract dump was a stroke of genius but Theo’s trading for AGonz and signing Crawford, Jenks, and Wheeler is right up there! (yes, i know its easier for a gm when its just money)

      • Lunchbox45 5 years ago

        Theo made some nice moves no doubt, improved the club for a long time.. but all the moves are understandable from both sides…

        Where as AA pulled off a trade that a week later people are still trying to figure out what the &#^*# the Angels were thinking.

        • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

          Bingo. I’m a huge Theo supporter as a Red Sox fan. But frankly getting rid of Vernon Wells while paying very little of his salary AND getting good pieces back in return was pure genius.

  10. baseballz 5 years ago

    a trade with Texas would have been superb even with the Jays picking up more of the cash too bad it never got beyond the salary dump stage/saving ownership money for AA and into more of an opportunity to get value out of Wells. Since AA says he’s in it to get as many high upside prospects to Toronto, one would have to wonder (fantasize?) if the Jays threw in enough cash if the Rangers would have given up someone like Profar or Perez.

    • Seanb1223 5 years ago

      Now that’s funny.

    • vtadave 5 years ago

      Pretty sure Wells + $86 million wouldn’t have gotten it done for either of those guys.

      • baseballz 5 years ago

        Probably true, I agree, but if its only money as they say, why not try to get something of use from a team with sooo many great prospects. And if AA could trade Wells, you have to admit it doesn’t seem impossible to get a blue chip prospect for him if they had picked up some (ALOT) of cash. I guess im just bitter the Jays passed again on a chance of aquiring Derek Holland who I think is awesome.

  11. It’s a valid point that Vernon Wells is a good player BUT you can’t look past the fact that his skills do not match the salary attached to such. Are the angels a better team with him, yes BUT they could have an even BETTER team by using the monetary resources to improve different areas of ballclub. In other words, 24 million per year could have improved MANY MANY positions and would have given the club more flexibility to sign a player whose production warrants such a salary. From a strict general managerial position, the trade is a strategic blunder for the Angels front office.

  12. nyakgala 5 years ago

    Billionaire or not I think everyone is entiltled to their own opinnion. Baseball right now I think needs a serious revamp. Watching the game on live or on TV is super boring. Since the 90’s I don’t think I have really enjoyed a baseball game. Hockey steped up a notch by adding some eye candy by featuring dancers/cheerleaders for their intermission entertainment. For a game that needs to attract audiences I think they need some babes to attract people to the game again.

    • I don’t think you have any clue what you’re talking about, opinion or not. Stop watching baseball, or stop crying.

      • nyakgala 5 years ago

        Well I still watch on TV. I do follow and know about the game. I think that it could use something interesting like eye candy cheerleaders to add more flare to the game.

        Nyak C. Gala

    • What does this post have to do with anything? If you need babes, sex and eye candy to attract you to a sport, maybe you should consider that it just isn’t for you.

    • JerseyJohn32190 5 years ago

      I hope this was a joke. Otherwise I just feel bad for you.

      • nyakgala 5 years ago

        What you mean, I think having cheerleaders would be a great idea. Bring in money, more people, advertisers and new interest to the game. I am serious no joke.

        • sports33 5 years ago

          Because cheerleaders are reaaally easy to see from the 500 level…

    • jb226 5 years ago

      Why are you on a website about MLB trade rumors if you’re bored by the game? This is hardly a non-fan website; even huge baseball fans aren’t necessarily huge enough to want to be here. It takes a particular kind of fan with a particular kind of obsession to want down-to-the-minute notification of who might be going where and what the return might be instead of just catching it on the news that evening, and somebody who hasn’t enjoyed a basebal game in 10+ years certainly doesn’t fit the bill.

      And since attendance and ratings are both quite strong, particularly given the recession, calling it a “game that needs to attract audiences” is a head-scratcher.

      • nyakgala 5 years ago

        I think you got me a little off here ok? I like baseball as a sport, however I just think that it could use some flare. I am not dissing the sport by any means. I encourage those that are athletic to participate in sports and baseball is one that takes a special skill and dedication. I think that more people would be keen on going to the game if there was some eye catching entertainment intermission of course in a most respective manner. The NHL,NFL,NBA etc.have cheerleaders. I just thought some of the type of engouragement could also be used in baseball. I think it would be interesting and it would make lots of sense.

        Nyak C. Gala

        • sports33 5 years ago

          Not all teams in the NHL have cheerleaders, not all teams in the NFL have cheerleaders, and I’m not sure about the NBA but I’d wager a guess that not all of the teams have cheerleaders.

        • MaineSox 5 years ago

          Cheerleaders are nice to watch while you’re at the game, but how many people go to the game (or even watch it on T.V.) just to see the cheerleaders? They could theoretically add something to the experience but I don’t think they would specifically affect attendance in any measurable amount.

      • nyakgala 5 years ago

        I think you got me a little off here ok? I like baseball as a sport, however I just think that it could use some flare. I am not dissing the sport by any means. I encourage those that are athletic to participate in sports and baseball is one that takes a special skill and dedication. I think that more people would be keen on going to the game if there was some eye catching entertainment intermission of course in a most respective manner. The NHL,NFL,NBA etc.have cheerleaders. I just thought some of the type of engouragement could also be used in baseball. I think it would be interesting and it would make lots of sense.

        Nyak C. Gala

  13. MadmanTX 5 years ago

    Maybe the Rangers and Jays could have exchanged big contracts and walked away…if the Jays needed an average infielder anywhere and if the Rangers considered Wells an upgrade over Hamilton and Borbon in center or Murphy in left. Honestly, I’m happy that JD didn’t make any move to obtain Wells unless the Jays paid most/all of his contract.

    • Lunchbox45 5 years ago

      I think a wells for young centered deal would have made a lot of sense for both clubs..

      but AA clearly took the superior deal because he has no contracts to deal with coming back plus didn’t take any cash..

      Perhaps if the Angels werent interested, it would have happened

      • MadmanTX 5 years ago

        Entirely possible, but not necessarily Wells for Young…and if not, then who would the Rangers have given up for Wells? Francisco, I guess, but the money doesn’t balance out unless more pieces would be involved or unless JD was willing to do what the Angels did and absorb most of the money involved.

        • Lunchbox45 5 years ago

          Wells was on waivers last year available to everyone for free if they took his contract.. What the Jays got back from the trade came secondary to the fact that the Angels took his entire remaining contract.

    • BurtisHB 5 years ago

      I hate to injure the Angels further but they DID have cheerleaders during the Disney the days. The Angel Wings I believe it was, while they were great to look at for a few minutes they didn’t add anything to the game!

  14. Dodgerblue18 5 years ago

    Olney forgot to mention that the Angels gave away Napoli and Rivera in the trade.

  15. Jaysfreak24 5 years ago

    Wells will hit 33 homers and 103 rbi’s with a .290 average ….Ive watched every Jays games game in the last 4 years…He had 1 really bad year where he was hurt with a wrist injury ( how can you hit homers with a back wrist) and someone here said he will be play left field? i dunno what your smoking but I want some of that..he tracks down every fly ball like its nothing….so hes not worth 22 million..if someone offered you 22 million a year im sure u wouldnt say no im not that good give me less…so when the season is over and he does what I just said Ill post again to laugh at everyone who thinks wells suck.PCE…..thanks Well for the great years!

    • HerbertAnchovy 5 years ago

      He will be playing LF. Peter Boujous is younger and better defensively, so unless he doesn’t hit and gets sent to the minors, he’ll be in CF. Hunter already moved over for this kid as well.

      I also really doubt that he reaches those numbers as well, because he’ll be playing 81 games in Anaheim instead of Toronto. Look at his home/road splits.

      • Jaysfreak24 5 years ago

        81 games? hahahahaha thats all i have to say

        • HerbertAnchovy 5 years ago

          Did you read what I wrote, or are you blind? 81 games in ANAHEIM. The other 81 will be on the road. You do know that a team plays 81 home games and 81 road games?

          Maybe you should actually know what you’re talking about before you post, it’ll save you from embarrassment.

          Looks like I have the last laugh.

          • Jaysfreak24 5 years ago

            wow wow there anchovy…so I read it wrong calm down…embarrassed? haha your probably from the States and havn’t even graduates from high school ..ill remember your g** name and when Wells lights it up…I will have the last laugh pce

          • HerbertAnchovy 5 years ago

            No, I’m Canadian. I also think it’s obvious who has education and who doesn’t. Stay classy.

          • He’s using the Queen’s english…lay off him!

          • battle of the wits.

  16. The Jays sent 5 millions to the Angels, not much, but better than nothing which was originally reported.

    • I’m still waiting to see official confirmation of this.

      • Not sure if there will be “official” confirmation as both teams preferred it to be confidential. I believe it’s true mainly because Toronto felt really bad after the fact. And I’m an Angels fan.

  17. player for player the Angels won the trade, however that contract, his age and recent DL history makes it a big gamble. If Wells was making a reasonable salary, say $10 million, he would still be a Jay.

    • Jaysfreak24 5 years ago

      DL problems? he missed 52 games 2 years ago? and its cause he was goin hard for a fly ball and rocked his own player?

    • he won’t be injured any more. he had that 1 major injury due to his wrist, the others were minors that healed pretty quick.

  18. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    If I were Tony Reagins, I would not have signed crawford for the 147MM it cost either. But in order to make it up to the fans, I would still have spent that money on fixing several needs, especially with their first round draftpick protected. This team clearly needed production out of third base. They should have matched the Beltre offer. That’s about 95MM commited. Then the Wells trade, thats another 71MM (including the 5MM plus 10MM in Rivera and Napoli salaries). So thats a total of 166MM committed. If Reagins had gotten about 10-15MM more, he would have spent 151MM on two players as opposed to 147MM for just Crawford. Then people would not have been so mad about the trade. And the Angels would have a good looking lineup next season, as well as their draft pick. With Wells, it gives them one more year to season Trout. And in 2012, they have Trout in LF, with Torii Hunter and Vernon Wells platooning RF and DH, letting abreu walk. Yes, it is a lot of RH power, but Kendry is a switch hitter.
    2b) Howie Kendrick
    DH Bobby Abreu
    RF Torii Hunter
    1b) Kendry Morales
    3b) Adrian Beltre
    LF) Vernon Wells
    SS) Aybar/Izturis
    C) Conger/Mathis
    CF) Bourjos

    That is a scary lineup, especially with Trout coming in and assuming Abreu leaving in 2012.

    • cookmeister 5 years ago

      Except Abreu will still be there in 2012, unless he doesn’t get enough PA because of an injury or something

      • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

        even if he is there, Trout could play CF over Bourjos, giving them an amazing offense and defense in the OF. Alas, it is what it is. My main question is who is going to be playing 3b for them? Callaspo? Izturis? Wood? I think the Angels would much rather prefer a Gold-Glover that could hit 30 homers with that protection in that lineup. Perhaps an Alex Gordon for Brandon Wood trade might be a good change of scenery move for both teams?

        • wood is so bad. i’m surprised they didn’t package him to the jays since we need a 3rd bagger.

          • Lunchbox45 5 years ago

            you know he’s bad when even AA won’t take a chance on him lol

  19. 2UGGLA2BINTO 5 years ago

    Why do people keep bringing up this so called 5 million going to the angels?…this is not going to happen, they are on the hook for the whole amount.

  20. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    So when is Alex’s big thank you parade in Toronto going to be?

    Because getting ANYTHING for Vernon Wells that wasn’t a bag of baseballs or some bats, let alone getting Frank Francisco indirectly and Juan Rivera directly, merits at least a parade.

  21. I agree that the Angels will be better going into the season, but there are so many question marks that it’s hard to be confident especially with how good the Rangers are and how good Oakland is becoming.

    Will Morales come back 100% from his broken leg? Will Santana have another horrible “odd-year” season? Will Callaspo rebound and regain some form and power sapped from his lingering wrist injury? Will Vernon Wells be injury free and gain momentum from his awesome 2010 campaign or tweak/break/injure something once again that nags on for an entire season? Is Bourjos capable of hitting major league pitching at a decent enough level to justify his GG defense? Etc. etc. etc.

    I guess that’s why the game is played on the field.

  22. safari_punch 5 years ago

    Before Vernon signed the long-term deal with the Blue Jays, there was talk of JP trading Wells to the Angels to fill their CF needs.

    I can just imagine what they would have landed back then for the trade (Santana, Kendrick, Napoli, etc.).

    I wish JP had traded him instead of sign Vernon. I was so against at the time and I am so happy he’s gone now. Nothing against V-Dub, but he was never going to be worth the money and his offensive stats were never really warranted the money he got.

  23. Mick_In_Ithaca 5 years ago

    No, he was quite good in 08. Due to injury, he only played 2/3 of a season, but his numbers were very good.

  24. Sniderlover 5 years ago

    He was doing well offensively. Sucked a lot defensively.

  25. vtadave 5 years ago

    Hank Conger disagrees.

  26. 02waster 5 years ago

    you’re wrong, he’s a ranger killer.

  27. Don’t you think that a home/away split speaks for the fans and the atmosphere more than the ballpark itself?

  28. We shall see just how long Conger lasts at catcher. He doesn’t have durability concerns for nothing.

  29. RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

    and a Red Sox Killer!

  30. PushDown 5 years ago

    Bitter much? Because there is no way you just compared Wells to Rivera?

  31. bjsguess 5 years ago

    Let’s do it this way. Here is your comparison:

    Player A – 278/327/466 – OPS+ 108 – 1845 PA’s (+1 UZR/150)
    Player B – 267/321/450 – OPS+ 103 – 2438 PA’s (-32 UZR/150)

    Player A hit in a much harder ballpark, dealt with a catastrophic injury that cost him almost 2 years to recover from. He’s only a few months older than Player B.

    Player B has dealt with a variety of nagging injuries over the space of several years. His UZR rating will probably be improved with a move to LF but that is hard to quantify.

    Oh yeah – Player A costs $5m and will be a FA after 2011. Player B cost $86m + Napoli + Player A and will be on the payroll for another 4 years.

    Look, I believe that the Angels will be better in 2011 with Wells in LF than counting on Rivera. HOWEVER, you can’t look at it that way. The Angels would have been MUCH better off with Crawford in LF or Beltre at 3rd. The upgrade at either position would be significantly higher than the upgrade of Wells over Rivera. The fact remains that any upgrade the Angels received by going to Wells instead of Rivera cost WAY TOO MUCH. Not only this year but for the next 4 years.

  32. Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

    Wells does have a higher WAR than Rivera in the last 3 seasons [no point talking career], but that’s solely based off offense. Rivera’s offense should improve in Rogers Centre, and Wells declining in the Stadium.

  33. Lunchbox45 5 years ago

    game. set. match.

  34. El_Bobo 5 years ago

    Apparently even Mathis and Wood can look good there

  35. so if you’re a good hitter in a hitters park you are going to suck in a non-hitter’s park?

  36. Lunchbox45 5 years ago

    He didn’t say that. . he insinuated with his data pull that Just because you are a good hitter in a hitters park/league.. doesn’t mean you will be a good hitter at the major league level

  37. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    To be considered “quite good,” one must perform at a “quite good” level both offensively and defensively.

  38. Seeing that your comment is coming from a guy that has seen 1 playoff berth in the past decade, I’m not impressed.

  39. I fail to see, besides lack of logic, what one’s team not making the playoffs on a consistent basis has to do with Vernon Wells statistics. Vernon Wells vs. the Rangers – .277/.331/.494… Vernon Wells @ Ballpark in Arlington – .254/.294/.444… and in his new ballpark – .226/.267/.340

  40. PushDown 5 years ago

    Yeah definitely out on missing Beltre and Crawford hurt, esoecially since the original defense of Arte saving money for the future players is in the trash. You said it yourself Wells is an upgrade over Rivera, most likely not a 15mill upgrade, but an upgrade nonetheless. Was this a desperation move, sure looks like it, but I do not think Arte just mortaged any chance for us to retain K-MO, Weav, Trout, etc. just for Wells.

    Also, Rivera’s numbers are good, sure, and Nap too. I can’t argue against stats but I have painfully witnessed Rivera and Napoli’s horrible situational hitting. Not to say they bogged the whole offense down, but there are many times throughout the year both guys, Rivera especially, kill rallies with double-play groundouts. I’ve never seen Wells play, at least not regularly, but with as much speed guys as the Halos have, I would like a change from the double-play machine, and late-inning-when-game-is out-of-reach homer machines that are Rivera and Napoli.

    Maybe the Wells trade turns out bad, maybe its what the Angels need to jump-start their offense, but we’ll see. That’s what they play the games for.

  41. PushDown 5 years ago

    Like I told BJ, through my personal experience Rivera and Napoli are terrible situational hitters, especially when a rally is starting. 26 homers are nice, but not when their solo-shots in the bottom of the 8th, trailing 8-1. I’m not a Jays follower, so i don’t know much about Well’s situational hitting, but I’m definitely wishing for a change.

    I’m not blindly loving this trade, 20mill is waaaaaaaaay too much, but like i said before if Arte can afford, so be it. And dwelling on missing out on CC and Beltre is no use. I’m glad for this change, because Rivera is on the decline, he can barely hit 15 homers, situational hitting was terrible. I got nothing against him, and I hope he thrives in Toronto, but both the Angels and Rivera need a change. Hopefully Wells is a positive change.

    By the way, if you are a Jays fan, would you care to enlighten me on Wells ability to hit when it matters.

  42. Lunchbox45 5 years ago

    I’m sure his number will drop out side of the rogers center but for you to just put numbers up and act like its the end all isn’t right either…

    His line in his new ballpark probably has more to do with the quality of Angels pitching the last decade than the park.. His home numbers probably drop, but not that much

  43. Have to disagree with you Mikey. It’s not apple and oranges, but more stupidity. ‘Los Angeles evidently ducked out of paying Beltre – who would have dramatically upgraded third base from the weak threesome of Maicer Izturis, Alberto Callaspo, and Brandon Wood – the annual sum of $16 million for five years. But the club was willing to go $21.5 million annually for four years of Wells. The Angels would have had to surrender a second-round pick for Beltre. Instead, Napoli and Rivera for Wells.’

    Let’s continue

    That’s a club that had several black holes in its lineup before Friday, before it traded two moderately productive hitters (who stand to make a combined $11 million or so in 2011) for one who’s coming off a very good season, but who, at age 31, has been caught in a year-on, year-off pattern since passing his prime years.’
    Angels got the shaft. All of the decisions the Angels made are connected. Unfortunately, they made consecutively bad decisions in a single offseason that snowballed.

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