Cardinals, Pujols Remain Far Apart

Albert Pujols and the Cardinals remain far apart in discussions about a possible extension, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (Twitter links). Heyman says the sides are so far apart that there's "virtually no chance" for a deal by Pujols' February 16th deadline. Pujols is looking for Alex Rodriguez money ($275MM over ten years), while the Cardinals are reluctant to offer anything more than a six or seven-year deal.

Pujols, 31, is nine months away from hitting free agency for the first time. The three-time MVP has said that he'll stop negotiating an extension once Spring Training begins, so the Cardinals have exactly one week to reach a deal with him. Ten years into his MLB career, Pujols has 408 home runs and a .331/.426/.624 career line.


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257 Comments on "Cardinals, Pujols Remain Far Apart"


Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

I love this.

RiverKKiller999
4 years 6 months ago

Being a Cub Fan. I bet you do. :)

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Yep

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

i hope you love it because it means there is a chance albert wont be in your divison next year….I also hope you dont think the cubs have a shot to sign him…the cubs will not at all come close to offering him the kind of money it would take to get him there

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

I’m just happy if he leaves. But the Cubs could offer that money, with the money coming off the books next season. Will they get him? Doubt it. But to say they have no chance if pretty far-fetched too.

4 years 6 months ago

I dont think hes goin to the mets but i would love if he does….the major decision for the mets to be contenders for him is what ike davis does this season…if he improves his game alot and hits around 30 hrs the mets will nt go after pujols…if he shows no improvement or is worse they will go after pujols(this is my opinion)

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

I’m not sure they just want to dump Davis, but then again, it is Pujols.

4 years 6 months ago

well its not dumping davis its getting a better first basemen and getting rid of davis strategically, for something they will need…such as a pitcher or mybey a second basemen

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

true, just not sure if they want to go that way just yet. Any team with the resources probably would take Pujols though, so I guess.

soundpilot
4 years 6 months ago

The major decision for the Mets is going to be what their payroll situation is like after the current financial mess they’re in gets sorted out. It’s a big one.

There are a ton of “what if’s” in the Pujols free agent question to me. 27-30MM a year is a ton of cash for any team to be paying someone until that late in their career. I’m a Cardinal fan but even I’m wary of committing that kind of cash (even for a mega-elite #1 superstar) because then we potentially end up with things like an infield comprised of Skip Schumaker, Ryan Theriot and Nick Punto.

Angels just took on Vernon Wells and his ridiculous contract, but probably still have the cash to work something out.

The Cubs have a legitimate shot (at least more than other clubs). StL would also blow a fuse if this ever happened.

Texas could probably ante up money for Pujols. They’re in a better position than when they signed A-Rod, but they’re fully aware that that kind of a contract can potentially cripple a team.

I think BOS will get something done with A-Gon, who is a superstar caliber 1st baseman as it is.

The Dodgers are going through nasty ownership troubles now too.

NYY are always in the discussion purely because cash is involved but I don’t think it’s a reasonable move for them. Teix has a great glove at 1st, Pujols isn’t capable of playing in the outfield anymore (unless you’d like to risk his health at 30MM a year) and he’d be a monstrously expensive DH.

Of course I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been said before 100x. Albert is the best baseball player I’ve had the chance to watch in my lifetime. As much as I love Albert I would much rather see the Cardinals winning and able to plug in real needs on the team instead of having a lineup with Colby, Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday and then replacement level fodder.

4 years 6 months ago

thats true too… but if they sell the whole team i dont think theres much of a problem any more since its the wilpons who r in trouble…i think they will sell the whole team based on all the offers to buy the whole team

gramuna
4 years 6 months ago

Trade him to the Yanks for Tex…Tex (not as good) is a cheaper version of Pujols (again people, I said not as good) and the Yanks are the only other team besides the Angels and Dodgers that could afford him. Sox are going to lock up AGON, so they’re out. Makes sense from all sides.

PujolsHollidayWestbrook
4 years 6 months ago

One small problem…Pujols owns 10/5 rights and can and reportedly will veto any trade to any team. Not to mention, if the Cardinals are going to pay Mark Teixeira as much money as he makes, then why not pay Pujols a little more to keep him instead?

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

When does Pujol’s 5/10 go into full effect? His first game was in 2001, so does that mean the Yank’s have till opening day?

David C. Ruckman
4 years 6 months ago

Pujols’ ten-and-five rights kicked in at the conclusion of the 2010 season, marking ten full seasons with the Cardinals organization. They are already in effect, meaning he has full no-trade rights.

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

Oh, I figured it would have been to the exact date of his first game. Thus 4/2/11. My mistake.

4 years 6 months ago

Albert already has ten years. He played 161 games in 2001.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

Other problem is that Tex has a no-trade so why would he want to go to St.Louis?

empathizerightonyourbehind
4 years 6 months ago

probably to hang out with cliff lee in the national league. pwnd.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

I like your name. I shall give you another shot at humor. Startinggggggg now!

empathizerightonyourbehind
4 years 6 months ago

signing an 8th inning reliever to a 8-figure deal=humorous. go yankees.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

OOOOOhhhhh great move. I joke about your lack of humor and you attack me for a move I didn’t make. Good one!

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

who doesn’t wanna come here!!

vonhayesdays
4 years 6 months ago

people who like to surf

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

Is that why Lee choose Philly?

B.Cashman

vonhayesdays
4 years 6 months ago

it was the cheesesteaks and he figured either way he’d be close to the jersey shore

vonhayesdays
4 years 6 months ago

oh an kristen doesnt like spit on her face

4 years 6 months ago

To be with the greatest franchise ever in the National League dick.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

because tex is only make 180 mill for the entire life of that deal assuming they trade right now tex would only be making 140 till 2016(22.5 per year) where as albert is looking for 275+(porbably actually 300 mill) for ten…thats a pretty big difference in money…that trade actually makes sense for both teams. tex is just as good defensively, switch hitter, hits for average and great power and younger….albert is albert

ChrisDaFranchizeHart
4 years 6 months ago

The Cubs could get him, if you look at the money they have coming off the books
Fukudome- 14.5 mill
Silva- 12.75 mill (owed 2 mill in 12′)
Ramirez- 14.6 mill (2 mill owed in 12′ and if they dont pick up his option)
Wood- 1.5 mill
Grabow- 4.8 mill
There are a couple of increases in salary for other players but they should shed at least around 30 mill. They have the motivation to get him and the money if they want to so right now i would say they are the most likely destination. Plus Pujols said he would’nt accept a trade this season so he is not going to get traded for TEX.

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

Don’t forget Pena’s 10 mill

godzillacub
4 years 6 months ago

5 million, he deferred the other 5 million to the 2012 season. So he makes 10 million for a year, but 5 of that counts on each of this and next season.

BlueCatuli
4 years 6 months ago

No, $5MM is deferred to Jan 1, 2012. It’s not part of the 2012 payroll.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

except for soriano making 18 per annually until his deal runs out in 2014(full NT also)+big z making 18 then 20 in 2012-1213, Arams option could actually get picked up if he has a good healthy years…dempster 14 mill player option(no way he turns that down)…5 mill of penas is deferred until after 2012 garza made 6 in his second arb year(doubling his first so figure he is going to get close to 9 maybe even 10 next season) marmol if he keeps putting up his numbers is going to get very expensive very fast. those are just some of the big raises…I just simply cant see the cubs coming up with 30 mill a year when they have a ton of holes, if arma leave who plays 3rd? and all the money that NEEDS to go to fixing he ballpark(or just get it over with make wrigley a land mark, turn it into a museum and bulid a new park some where else

zippy05
4 years 6 months ago

I can’t see him going to the Cubs he always has said he wants to be on a winning team and the Cubs are surely not a winning team. I really don’t see Pujols going anywhere he is so established in St. Louis and his family, even if we don’t sign him by February 16th we have all rights to him after the season and even 5 days after the World Series so we have some time to get him to stay after the 2011 season.

4 years 6 months ago

Pujols has 10 and 5 rights now, doesn’t he? I seriously doubt he agrees to a trade at any point in the season, unless he’s offered an other-worldly extension by the team trying to trade for him. Otherwise, he’ll just finish out the season with the Cardinals. It’s not like he’s not gonna have any serious suitors for his services. Sure, Tex would be cheaper for the Cardinals…..but I think he’s already overpaid.

Anyway, it’ll be interesting if the Cardinals fall out of contention before the trade deadline. Surely the package they can get for him is worth a lot more than 2 potential draft picks, but I don’t see Pujols waiving his no-trade clause for anyone.
.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

he might, he has stated over and over again he will do anything as long as it helps the team win(which is why this whole situation is werid, i mean honestly what are you going to do with all the money he already has 100’s of millions from baseball and endorsements why does he NEED so much more) if the cards are not even close to contending and he wants another rign that badly he might waive it to give him self a chance, the cards a chance to make up for him leaving and help his rep

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Tex has a full no-trade clause.

woadude
4 years 6 months ago

Ok, the Yanks have locked up Tex at a huge price no clubs would ever go to, the Sox have NOT locked up Agon yet so they are in a better position to go after Pujols than NY, that being said, there are teams to watch in the Pujols saga, the Brewers with Fielder becoming a FA, the Mariners who have under 100 million payroll and no real 1st baseman…sorry Smoak. Those teams have shots at him.

Triple Hawpes Brewed
4 years 6 months ago

Let the speculation on what uniform Pujols will don in 2012 commence. I’ll take a long shot and say the Nats…

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Cubs :)

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

I concur!

Triple Hawpes Brewed
4 years 6 months ago

Cubs already have the 3rd highest payroll, don’t they? Do they even have the funds to throw $30 mil/year at Pujols?

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

They also have, at the absolute least, even after arbitration next year, 30 Million coming of the books. They aren’t 3rd anymore for the 2011 season though.

Triple Hawpes Brewed
4 years 6 months ago

You’re forgetting that even if they have $30 mil coming off the books, that Pujols would take the entire amount himself. Who takes the place of Wood, Ramirez, Fukudome, etc.?

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Ramirez would be hard to replace. But the Cubs payroll isn’t set in stone, despite it going down a bit this year. Wood seems not to care about money at all, he just wants to be a Cub, which is why he signed for 1.5 Million. Fukudome, could be replace by anyone. They already have Colvin pushing Fukudome onto the bench and Brett Jackson almost ready to debut.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

at best they are 4th, they didnt have a lot of money coming off the books and with raises and garza they took on more then they lost

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Baseball-Reference’s estimates have them at 5th going into the season.

NL_East_Rivalry
4 years 6 months ago

Cubs have a ton of money coming of the books. They can offer the most.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

It’s always a possibility that he would go anywhere that’s willing to pay him the money AND has the capacity to field a winning team. But d@mn, would Pujols pull a cold as ice move and sign with their arch rivals? That would quickly turn the situation from a “Oh well, we couldn’t afford him” feeling from the fans, to a “D@mn money hungry b@st@rd. Screw him!!!”.

Add in some derivative of Dan Gilbert (Cavs owner) and Ceely’s (from the Color Purple) “until you do right by me (us), everything you touch…..” speech for more dramatic flair.

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

That may be so, but we don’t know.

David Jackson
4 years 6 months ago

The Cardinals haven’t even made Pujols AN OFFER yet. If he ends up with the Cubs, it’s not going to be Albert’s fault.

BlueCatuli
4 years 6 months ago

Cardinals

4 years 6 months ago

He wants to play for a winner. Forget the Nats.

Triple Hawpes Brewed
4 years 6 months ago

That’s funny, thought I said something about a “long shot.”

Werth/R. Zimmerman/Strasburg/Harper/J. Zimmerman/Storen/Pujols…not bad. If they get a few pieces for the rotation, watch out…

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

they are clearly willing to spend

4 years 6 months ago

Pretty sure, he makes the Nats a legitimate contender.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

I have a hunch that Pujols hates Bryce Harper.. Have you seen Pujols reaction on the Bryce Harper Espn special when they were talking about his 500 ft blast?
“Yeah, thats impressive but he used an aluminum bat”
Alberts face was priceless when they asked him that.

Commander_Nate
4 years 6 months ago

But they stole Jayson Werth away from the Phillies and Red Sox…surely they are a force to be reckoned with!

MaineSox
4 years 6 months ago

They should apply the same strategy they used to get Werth and offer Pujols 15 years and $600M

niched
4 years 6 months ago

Something close to that could happen. Nats owner is the richest in baseball, and Pujols would double the attendance and TV ratings of the Nats overnight..

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Yeah…stole….

~busts out laughing~

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

So that would cancel out the cubs too.

4 years 6 months ago

You can throw out the Cubs as well… He ends up with an American League team if he doesn’t extend with the Cardinals…

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

Angels.. if he wants 30mil from a ball club imagine what he will make in endorsements out in LA.

niched
4 years 6 months ago

I wonder if he’s thinking Southern California too if he doesn’t go back to the Cards. I’d much rather see him a Dodger, but the Angels are probably in a better financial position.

niched
4 years 6 months ago

The “winners” all already have first basemen

4 years 6 months ago

thats extremely interesting thought with the phenom, mega-prospect bryce harper coming up to the majors in a few years. pujols could be a mentor to him. but i thought the nats were a small market team? but i do remember hearing something about an ownership change so maybe the new owner has more money.

AceGunderson
4 years 6 months ago

A question for Cards fans. If you KNEW Pujols was not going to re-sign after the season AND you were out of contention at the deadline…would you trade him?

4 years 6 months ago

Yes, why wouldn’t you? Seeing as though he will veto every trade the Cardinals try and make, this is a dumb question to ask…

AceGunderson
4 years 6 months ago

Why do people blindly believe whatever Pujols says, but dismiss most other athletes?

stl_cards16
4 years 6 months ago

Good point, and also I have never seen a quote from Albert saying he would not accept a trade. The way the article looked, it was pure speculation by Olney.

NL_East_Rivalry
4 years 6 months ago

Depends on the package, but the bigger question is, would Pujols accept the trade?

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

if he is willing to waive NTC and leave happily..probably give a press conference then yes. You instantly as the cards ownership retire his number…But if your making a trade you make sure the team has at least 4 top 100# prospects and they are willing to give them up other wise you say “I want your #1 pitching, #1 1stbase, #1middle infield, #1 out field prospect and 2 more guys for the hell of it…No?…well no albert for you then, good bye!”

AceGunderson
4 years 6 months ago

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you there. Yes, I think it might be a starting point for the Cards, but not very close to the actual price. Personally, I don’t think Pujols is the best trade chip in baseball (best PLAYER, yes), because of age and contract length (only through this year)…I think that honor might belong to Longoria or King Felix (off the top of my head)…and I don’t even think either one of them would bring a package quite that large. I think, in this theoretical scenario, the Cards would get offered and take less than that in return when they know the alternative is only a couple of draft picks compensation. I do see where you’re coming from though…

bunderw
4 years 6 months ago

Pujols has already said that he’ll veto all trades, so this idea is pretty irrelevant.

AceGunderson
4 years 6 months ago

Pujols said it, so it’s written in stone.

stl_cards16
4 years 6 months ago

Can we get a link to a quote where Albert Pujols said this? The only thing I have seen is Buster Olney”heard” he would block a trade.

4 years 6 months ago

Why do journalists continue to harp on this and make Cardinals fans cry themselves to sleep when no one really knows whats going on in the slightest

Are you guys and the rest of the world really that pressed for stories?

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 6 months ago

Because he’s the most anticipated baseball free agent since 2001.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

but lets not forget the cards still have a little over a week, probably will deal with his agent during the season( I highly doubt the agent wont be talking to them considering how much money albert will make him, and the cards have what 2 weeks of exclusive negotiating with him after the WS before FA starts

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

They didn’t just make it up. These are reports. Keep telling yourself they are fake, but these are reports.

cards4lfedrew
4 years 6 months ago

I like how he states, “the two sides are far apart” when NO ONE is talking about the negotiations to ANY ONE..?????????????

4 years 6 months ago

I’ve heard that the Cardinals have not even made a dollar offer yet. So yes that would be far apart.

cards4lfedrew
4 years 6 months ago

ignorant

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Please explain. Are you really saying they made it up. And how do you know that they haven’t discussed it. Look at Mozeliak’s recent comments on the negotiations too. If Mozeliak has been commenting, then it isn’t exclusively private.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

They are speculations, meaning its a guess, a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

Good enough for me. It is still ignorant to say that it is complete BS though.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

Well they speculated the Cubs would be in the World Series a few years back and that was BS

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

I applaud your sense of humor. But then again, haven’t there been 103 “next year’s”, not just 2 years ago. Depends on if you ask Cubs fans, sports writers, or Vegas then.

4 years 6 months ago

thats my whole point, from where?

Both sides of negotiation made it very clear that they were not going to disclose what was happening with the media

They are “reporting” that the sides are far apart based on the fact that he still has not signed a contract yet, that is the only hard information they have

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

ok, so they said that they’d try to keep info away from the reporters, ok?

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

yeah basically. Kind of strange how Heyman and others know this, they never say who they get the info from. Just an MLB official, for all we know it could be one from another team.

zippy05
4 years 6 months ago

How true are the reports though. Both sides can not talk about the contract talks so who is getting this information. Nobody knows what is going on but Pujols, his agent and the Cardinals. Sorry but all stories that have been written are all speculation at this point noboby knows what has been said or given on both sides. I won’t believe anything I read until it comes from Pujols, his agent or the top excutives from the Cardinals themselves.

Jntg4
4 years 6 months ago

how is anyone getting information about any other negotiations and trades then? Those turn out to be true a lot…

4 years 6 months ago

It’s time for baseball, dude. It’s like this every season.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 6 months ago

Dude…it’s Feb 9th. There’s pretty much this or the Arod/Diaz/Pop Corn story. THIS IS THEEEEEEEE STORY!

4 years 6 months ago

I was wondering the same thing. Does Heyman have any credible sources to support that claim? According to the Post Dispatch, the media knows about as much as the fans.

grownice
4 years 6 months ago

That slash line makes me happy inside

4 years 6 months ago

I can barely wrap my mind around it. How can somebody hit for that much power and still have a + .330 and .420 avg and obp? Ridiculous.

grownice
4 years 6 months ago

I know almost dont get why you wouldnt give him the a-rod type contract considering hes much better, i mean your not just paying for his production , this guy will break records , big ones at this pace… paying for his last 3-4 years at declining production almost shouldnt matter with that kind of career.

RiverKKiller999
4 years 6 months ago

If it weren’t for the Yankees or Rangers, he wouldn’t have that kinda contract and Pujols wouldn’t be asking for so much.

Blue387
4 years 6 months ago

How are fans in St. Louis treating this news?

4 years 6 months ago

Depends….
(they wear them)

Stl_Great
4 years 6 months ago

Not good, Look at it this way. If he goes anywhere but here, It will be Lebron 2.0

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

He’s gonna have ESPN do a primetime special where he totally and completely screws over the city of St. Louis?

Kinda doubt that Albert is that type of cat.

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

what part of St. Louis do you live in? I haven’t seen anything like that.

Stl_Great
4 years 6 months ago

It hasn’t started yet haha, but I live in South County.

jwsox
4 years 6 months ago

except albert is already considered one of the best to ever play the game, lebron is simply one f the best right now. Albert has already broken records, lebron hasnt, albert has already won a championship, lebron has not….it will be worse then lebron 2.0 for that city and franchise…i cant believe this didnt get resolved months ago.

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

Pujols hasn’t broken any records. He is the first player in his first 10 years to have over an average of .300/30/100 but that isn’t a record.

4 years 6 months ago

I’m a fan in St. Louis and I normally just turn it all off. Whatever happens, happens. It went like this with Matt Holiday, too. In the end, I have to believe Albert will remain a Cardinal, but it probably wont be decided until after the coming season ends and his free agency begins. BTW, if the Nats offer him $600 million, he will probably take it.

$1639238
4 years 6 months ago

I’m testing to see if mixing bleach and vinegar really is fatal.

zippy05
4 years 6 months ago

I for one am not believing anything any of the reporters are saying due to the fact that they have no real evidence of what is going on. As said before the talks are blocked by both sides. It is all speculation the reporters have nothing to report and just need something to talk about.

I minute I hear the talks are going really well, next I hear there may be a deal in place, then I hear there not even close to a deal. So what will they come up with next.

4 years 6 months ago

A Rod has $ 143MM and six years left on his sheet after the 2011 season. I’m sure the Cards would LOVE to get away with “only” that much for Pujols.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Seems to me that some creativity in structuring this contract is required. I think there is a way to give both sides what they want. Give Albert a 10 year $275M contract but give the Cardinals an opt out after 6 years if Pujols has not yet reached the 600 HR Club. Pay Albert $30M/yr for the first six years, $23.75M/yr for the last four years, and add milestone HR bonuses of $5M each for passing any member of the 600 HR Club. These milestone HR bonuses could total up to $45M on top of the $275M if both Thome and Ramirez join the 600 HR Club and $35M if they do not.

If Albert is able to stay healthy and remain as productive over the next six years as he did in his first 1o years he should add another 240 or so HRs to his total and thus be around 50 HRs above the 600 level. If Pujols’ HR pace slows so much that he can not even reach 600 HRs after another 6 seasons then his health or his skills will have declined too much to justify the last four years of this contract.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 6 months ago

I’m fairly certain a club can’t even write in a clause to opt out of a contract due to the production of a player. And I’m not sure why a player would accept a contract where his bonuses rely on players who aren’t even his teammates.

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Even if they could (99% sure they cant due to the CBA), the MLBPA would go nuts.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Historical Milestone HR Bonuses can be done as proven by the A-Rod contract. Since Historical Milestone HR Bonuses can be done I see no reason why an opt out clause for failing to reach a Historical Milestone (the 600 HR Club) can not also be done.

In addition, The WhiteSox had a diminished skills clause in Frank Thomas’ last contract with them that allowed them to opt out so even this has precedent.

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

A bonus is extra. Why on earth would the MLBPA allow a ‘penalty bonus’?

Frank Thomas had an option based on plate appearances for the 2009 season. He didn’t reach it, so he didn’t get his 10MM for season.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

It is called a “diminished skills clause” and it has been used before as I mentioned in my reference to Frank Thomas’ last contract with the WhiteSox.

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Using PAs is completely different than HRs or actual production. You can’t use production clauses to penalize like that…you can only use them as bonus clauses.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Your opinion only. Mine differs. I think it can be done and has been done in the Frank Thomas example I supplied.

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

Difference is, if Thomas was healthy, he would have reached his plate appearances. Thus, his option would have clicked. However, basing a team opt out clause on whether he reaches a HR goal is like saying if he doesn’t hit for .310/.400/.585 for his duration of the contract he isn’t being productive then he should be cut. That’s just stupid to think that.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

See my reply to Nepp.

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

That was different as it was a vesting option based on PAs. ARod’s deal was different in that it rewards him, it doesn’t punish him. Totally different to have any type of deal where a player loses money based on production. MLBPA would never go for it.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Simply not true. Cots’s shows the following for the Thomas contract I am referring to.

# 7 years/$64.4M (1998-2004), plus club options for 2005, 2006

* 99:$7.15M, 00:$7.25M, 01:$10.375M, 02:$10.3M, 03:$10.3M, 04:$10.3M, 05:$10.3M option, 06:$10.3M option

* White Sox invoked “diminished skills clause” 10/02, allowing the club to defer $10.124M/year if Thomas did not make the All Star team, win a Silver Slugger award or rank in the top 10 of MVP vote for 2002. Thomas filed for free agency 10/02 before agreeing to rework terms for 2003-06.

Thomas chose to opt out and file for free agency after 2002 and thus to lose his 2003 and 2004 dollars because he was not willing to accept the deferral of most of these dollars that his “diminished skills clause” called for. This has absolutely nothing to do with the team options for 2005 and 2006.

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

silver slugger, all star team, and mvp votes are all fair game. However, mlb isn’t allowed to give opt out clauses for say not hitting .300 with 35HR’s or not having an era under 3.00 with no less than 250K’s.

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Exactly…and that’s what I’ve been saying.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Until A-Rod no MLB contracts had any bonuses for Historical Milestones either. Because something has never been done before does not mean it is prohibited by the rules from being done.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Historical Milestones are not the same as hitting .300 with 35HR’s or having an era under 3.00 with 250K’s. They are different and A-Rods bonuses prove this.

ubercubsfan
4 years 6 months ago

There is a difference in hitting HR and just coming up to the plate. If you are healthy and can play you will get the plate appearances. You can never guarantee you can hit the ball out of the park at any given time.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Where did I ever reference plate appearances?

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

Historical Milestone HR Bonuses can be done as proven by the A-Rod contract. Since Historical Milestone HR Bonuses can be done I see no reason why an opt out clause for failing to reach a Historical Milestone (the 600 HR Club) can not also be done.

In addition, The WhiteSox had a diminished skills clause in Frank Thomas’ last contract with them that allowed them to opt out so even this has precedent.

4 years 6 months ago

There’s a “diminished skills” clause in the CBA. Rule 7(b)(2) of the uniform player contract, incorporated into the CBA allows a team to release a player if “in the opinion of the club” the player does not demonstrate ability, etc…..

However, a guaranteed contract is guaranteed whether the player is released or not.
What was different in the case of Frank Thomas is that he had a vesting clause, which was negated when he was released.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

This is not what happened in Frank Thomas’s case. Every team can release any player at any time for any reason (diminished skills included) but they still have to honor the contract if no other team makes a waiver claim and assumes that obligation for them. Frank Thomas’ contract had a unique to it “Diminished Skills Clause” that was (and I think still is) allowed by the CBA but thus far has not been included in contracts for any other players that I am aware of.

4 years 6 months ago

I doubt it. Any such clause would be entirely unnecessary and redundant. Read the uniform players’ contract, rule 7(b)2 regarding grounds for releasing a player. No other clause is necessary.

4 years 6 months ago

Problem is that another team will give him the money without the opt outs and incentives.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

I very much doubt this. The Yankees did it once for A-Rod and I am sure they already regret it.

giantsrainman
4 years 6 months ago

By the way, this team opt out clause is also very similar to what the Giants did in the 5 year $90M contract they signed with Bary Bonds after the 2001 season in which Bonds hit 73 HRs. Per Cots:

# 5 years/$90M (2002-06)

* signed 1/02
* $10M signing bonus ($2.5M paid 02, $3.5M 03, $4M 04)

* first 4 years/$72M guaranteed

* 02:$13M, 03:$13M, 04:$16M, 05:$20M, 06:$18M

* club may void 2006 if Bonds has less than 500 PAs in 05

* club may not void 2006 if Bonds has:
o 950 PAs 2004-05 and at least 400 PAs 2005

* $5M/year of 2002-06 salaries deferred at 3.5%, paid 07-11

* $0.1M All Star award bonus

* no-trade clause

* 10-year personal services contract begins after playing career ends, paying nearly $1M annually to the Bonds Family Foundation

* San Francisco declined 2006 void option 9/04

55saveslives
4 years 6 months ago

Hmmm…If we shoot Zito and frame Rowand for it, that knocks 30+ mill off the books…

We can do this!!

4 years 6 months ago

That’s like “if the Yankees’ plane crashes….. into the Red Sox plane…. and it lands on the Rays’ team bus…. the Jays and O’s have a chance”.

BlueJaysFTW
4 years 6 months ago

You could have just said, “lol.”

nepp
4 years 6 months ago

Actually, those teams would have all that free payroll to spend in that scenario…gotta replace those guys somehow.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

What is Mo doing? Hes a GM, he gets paid millions of dollars to play fantasy baseball with someone else’s money. Im sure there is a lot that goes into a big contract and all but how hard can this be?

Mo to Bill DeWitt: How much can you afford to pay Pujols?
DeWitt: 29 mill for 7 years
Mo to Alberts agent: Ok, we can give you 29 for 7 years, yes or no?
Alberts agent to Albert: 29 for 7
Albert: Sounds good

Done.

stl_cards16
4 years 6 months ago

lol…Oh I wish it could be that easy

4 years 6 months ago

Reality…
Mo to DeWitt: How much can you afford to pay Pujols?
DeWitt: I can afford to build him a mansion made of gold bricks, but I’m cheap a$$ so let’s offer him 5 years @ $18MM/yr and defer 10% without interest.
Mo to Dan Lazano: Ok, we’ll give you $18MM /yr for 5 years if you defer 10%.
Lazano: Bahahahaha
Mo to DeWitt: They rejected our offer.
DeWitt: ……..
Mo: Sir?
DeWitt: Ok, let’s offer 5 years @ $18MM/yr and defer 10% without interest.
Mo: *Facepalm*

scluse
4 years 6 months ago

Not to add more on the shoulders of the Cardinals but they also have 3 BIG option years on Carpenter and Wainwright, respectively.

Carpenter (Age 37) – $15 Million Club Option with $1 Million buyout, most likely he’ll be gone so that leaves a net of $14 Million.

Wainwright (Age 30) – $10 Million vesting option for 2012 and $12 Million for 2013.

There’s going to be some tough decisions for John Mozeliak in a few months.

4 years 6 months ago

Thank god someone’s mentioned that….

Let’s say the Cardinals do give Albert 10/300. With Holliday making big bucks, Wainwright getting more expensive, $300 million to Pujols, and a pretty terrible farm……that’s not a good recipe for future success, something Pujols said will be a factor into his decision. They don’t have a ton of impressive pieces at the big-league level(not big on Garcia, btw), so when you have no money to spend and a farm that sucks……well, it’s just hard as hell to field a competitive team very often.

Ferrariman
4 years 6 months ago

wainwright’s options have already vested. All he has to do is finish the 2011 season off the DL since he placed in the CY voting. IT was a nobrainer option anyways.

MaineSox
4 years 6 months ago

Since Heyman said this I fully expect Pujols to be extended by the beginning of next week.

4 years 6 months ago

how the heck would Heyman know what is going on when Leach, Goold, Strauss, and the rest of the Cardinals scribes are not hearing from “reliable sources”? Albert will sign soon, I would guess something like a 8/240 w/ an aav of 30mil.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

EPSN radio in STL today had Strauss on but he was clearly holding something back because Im sure he is going to write a piece on it… hmmmm

4 years 6 months ago

Agreed… The Nationals are coming, and fast at that…

4 years 6 months ago

Still don’t see it. Maybe 2013 or something. When they can reach .500 I’ll start taking them more seriously.

Triple Hawpes Brewed
4 years 6 months ago

Can anyone imagine what the Cubs/Cards rivalry would escalate to if Pujols were to sign there?!! The presidential motorcade wouldn’t have sh*t on the security at Wrigley and Busch!

4 years 6 months ago

I’m sorry, but giving a player that much money when he reaches 40 is stupid. I think any club that gives him $30M a year for even 7 years is stupid. He will 40 years old at that point, and then he wants to tack on another 3 years? I know he wants to be on just one club, but he really needs to look at in the Cardinals stand point. Anything can happen in 10 years. As a die hard Cardinals fan, I would hate to see this team get screwed over some 5-6 years down the road and be stuck with an insane contract for an eatra 4-5 years…

4 years 6 months ago

I think Ben is very close to the real deal. 8 years, $ 240MM with a couple of vesting options at the end. I mean, after $ 100 million, what’s the difference anyway? I just want one little million and I’ll go away happy!

inleylandwetrust
4 years 6 months ago

Well you can’t have it! Albert has a family to feed!

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

Look no one knows what really is going on but the Cards and Alberts agent, I dont even think Albert knows whats going on. This is all speculation. ESPN and other web pages like this are now going to follow the story closely now since there is a deadline and its going to be up and down all week for St. Louis. $100 says the headlines read “Pujols Cards getting closer”
and the day after will say “Cards and Pujols negotiations not going well”
Just hope, for the sake of STL that this ends sooner than later

BlueJaysFTW
4 years 6 months ago

Thing is it has always said that they are not going well, never said they are getting closer. STL is not keeping Pujols.

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

Thats because no one had a clue, now that there is only a week left to get together the largest contract in baseball history, they have to assume it wont happen but again, you never know.

BlueJaysFTW
4 years 6 months ago

Not all rumors are assumptions. Most of them come from legit sources. It’s not hard to get the inside scoop when there are several people involved in the deal. They aren’t assuming anything.

godzillacub
4 years 6 months ago

All that you have cited on this thread about the contract, it will not be the “largest contract in baseball history.” You threw out 7/203 previously which would be 5th overall and barely 3rd per year.

I understand your anxiety though, you can’t see the Cardinals paying either. Pujols will make 8/240-10/275, will the Cards pony up? Others will (see: Nationals)

The_BiRDS
4 years 6 months ago

Im sorry let me correct myself… it will be one of, if not THE largest contract in history.

4 years 6 months ago

well said! (directed @The_Birds)