Mariners Notes: Thieben, Montero, Adams

The Mariners endured their 13th walk-off loss of the season at the hands of the Twins yesterday, setting a franchise record. Seattle which is tied with the Angels for the most walk-off losses in baseball this season, visits the Rangers tonight…

  • The Mariners are expected to sign Daniel Thieben, an 18-year-old right-hander who's the youngest member of Germany's World Cup roster, according to John Manuel of Baseball America. The deal will likely become official in early November, when international scouting director Bob Engle visits Germany. Thieben's best pitch is a curveball and his fastball sits in the mid or upper-80s.
  • Brian Cashman's comments about Carl Crawford made headlines today and his candor extended to the near-trade that would have sent Jesus Montero and others to the Mariners for Cliff Lee last summer. The GM told Ian O'Connor of ESPNNewYork.com that Montero "would've been by far the best player moved" in any of the three deals involving Lee.
  • Cashman told Larry Stone of the Seattle Times that he had Lee until the Mariners decided they didn't like the medicals on second baseman David Adams and moved on to the Rangers, who were offering Justin Smoak.


Leave a Reply

64 Comments on "Mariners Notes: Thieben, Montero, Adams"


Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

man he talks a lot

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

He didn’t used to. He must be frustrated.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

Talking about the Crawford thing publicly seems like bad business. Why create or cultivate that impression of yourself? But good for him on the Montero thing. Seattle backed out of an agreed to deal to make an inferior deal. Cashman not only made a good faith offer, but a really, really good one. 

Member
Smoaked
3 years 9 months ago

No way was the Rangers deal inferior to the Yankees deal.  Smoak, Beaven, and Leuke are all going to be MLB regulars.  Montero looks to be a DH…the last thing the Mariners needed was a catcher who couldn’t catch and a broken down infielder.  Plenty of those in their organization at the time of the trade.

Member
East Coast Bias
3 years 9 months ago

We have the next ten years to compare Montero and Smoak. And by the looks of it, maybe even Nova and Beavan.

Member
Smoaked
3 years 9 months ago

It wasn’t Nova, it was McCallister. 

Member
East Coast Bias
3 years 9 months ago

You’re right. But Nova was involved somehow, from what I recall. I think Seattle wanted Nova to replace Adams in the deal after checking medical records?

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

It absolutely was NOT McAllister. 

It was Montero, Nova and Adams and Nunez was the sub they asked for Adams.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

Do we have any evidence Montero couldn’t play first? It’s just that the Yankees already have Teixeira. Besides, Smoak has looked terrible defensively at first since reaching the majors and hasn’t hit either (though I still think he will when he’s totally healthy). Besides, it’s not like Beaven is a great prospect. A team should be able to generate its own back-end starters. And then, of course, there’s the PR nightmare of Josh Lueke.

So can you debate Cashman’s point that Montero was better than any other player traded for Lee?

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

What are you, reading reports saying Smoak looks “slow” defensively from last year? Smoak has been efficient defensively. I’m not claiming he’s great or anything, but he’s far from “terrible” as your comment suggests. The cause of his mid-season collapse was a bad thumb injury he played through, and he’s looked like the Smoak of April-June since returning. The only reason you compare Nova to Beavan is because Nova is trash compared to Pineda, benefiting from the Yankees offense and luck. I’m not saying Smoak is better than Montero/vice versa, just that it’s impossible to tell right now and you inaccurately make it sound as though Montero is better, which isn’t necessarily false, just yet to be seen.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

What does Pineda have to do with anything? He was already Mariners property. And no, I was talking about Smoak’s defense having seen him a lot this year. If he’s not a spectacular defensive first baseman, I don’t see where he gets a huge benefit over Montero, who could presumably at least play first base semi-adequately.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

I mention Pineda because Blake Beavan was not a make-or-break part of the Cliff Lee deal, which was centered around and only completed because of the inclusion of Justin Smoak. There’s no proof that Nova was ever going to be sent to Seattle in any Lee/Yankees trade, either. He’s not a “spectacular defensive first baseman,” and I agree with that right now, but he’s far from looking “terrible defensively” as the comment you made that I first replied to stated. If Montero can play first decently, that still doesn’t make him better than Smoak just as it doesn’t make Smoak better than Montero. Be patient, give the two time to prove themselves and further adjust, then we’ll see which player is better.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Hmmmm…….let’s break this comment down because it truly struck me as odd.

#1- No way was the Rangers deal inferior to the Yankees deal.  Smoak, Beaven, and Leuke are all going to be MLB regulars.

Comment: Smoak might definetly have a 10 year + career. Whether he will be Jack Cust or Mark Teixeira remains to be seen. Beavan might be 6’7 and 240 but he throws a very mediocre FB that tops out at 90 mph and he throws it often (65%) this year. His FIP was 4.27 and he struck a minuscule amount of hitters this year 3.72/9 and recorded few GB 38%. He would be very lucky to repeat that again. He may have a 10 year career in the majors but is it going to be as an impact player or at least a #3-#4 quality starter? Leuke is going to turn 27 in December, got smashed hard in his albeit small sample size of mlb competition. Still he had a good FIP (3.38) and throws hard. However, he would have to be Paplebon-ish in in order to call him an impact player. 
 
The rumored deal the Yanks offered and was agreed upon before the M’s backed out was for Jesus Montero, Ivan Nova (24 yo w/ the 3.18 FIP away from NYS) who has a combined 4/07 FIP (much lower after the All-star break) and David Adams. Hold that thought.

#2-“Montero looks to be a DH…the last thing the Mariners needed was a catcher who couldn’t catch…….”

Ok..think what you will of Montero. Maybe he will never be a “good” catcher and maybe he’ll never catch more than 150 games in his career as a catcher.

FACT: The M’s were dead last in the majors in Runs scored.
FACT: The M’s play in the AL where they have a thing called a DH.
FACT: Montero can be their DH and might even be a decent enough 1B where he could’ve been switched to a position.

#3- “…and a broken down infielder”.

Hard to argue that Adams has not been injury plagued this year and with Ackley they really don’t even need another 2B. I still like Adams and think if he can stay healthy for a full year he will be excellent trade bait for the Yanks next year because he is going to be a good mlb hitter.

While I would not let Nunez be the deciding factor on a “to trade or not to trade for Lee” debate I certainly think that the Yanks would’ve been more than willing to substitute another good prospect into the deal to go along with Montero and Nova.

I easily think a deal for those two and “a” Adam Warren, David Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird, JR Murphy type could’ve been done w/o a doubt.

As a Yankee fan I’m happy it didn’t happen because there’s no doubt that we still would’ve had a hard time bringing Lee back to NY despite the money offered and his “best friend relationship” with CC. Sometime the best deals are the ones you don’t make.. ala Mariano Rivera for David Wells, Robinson Cano in the Arod deal or Phil Hughes, IPK and Jesus Montero for Johan Santana trade proposals.

Member
spokaneman
3 years 9 months ago

Never remembered Nova in the deal.  Just looked up a NY Post article that says ‘the Yankees refused to include Nova’.  So not sure where that is coming from.  I remember, as a previous post said, that the pitcher was Zach McAllister.  And the replacement we asked for for Adams was indeed Nunez. 

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

“It is what it is,” Cashman said Tuesday. “You don’t have a deal until you officially have a deal. Our guy, Adams, didn’t pass the medicals. They went back to the original stuff I had been saying no to all along.”
You guy s that keep trying to say the Mariners backed out on an agreed upon deal just need to STFU. As East Coast Bias and I have argued about many times, its not a deal until its finalized. Read the article, Cashman wasn’t mad, its the way it goes…..If you all want to be mad, be mad at the worthless NY writers who fabricate news.

Member
Phillies_Aces35
3 years 9 months ago

Do most GM’s like to:

1. Talk about other teams players and how they should be his one way or another or how he really didn’t want them he just was pretending?
2. Come out publicly and say that he thinks signing _____ is a bad move.
3. Openly talk about failed deals and the prospects involved.
4. Make stupid comments in general

… or is that just Brian Cashman?

Maybe it’s because I’m used to Ruben Amaro who’s pretty much the opposite of Cashman personality wise. I’m just having a really tough time understanding what’s going on in Cashman’s head today.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

The thing that’s getting me is this doesn’t seem like Cashman’s personality. When has he been this open before? He’s not exactly Ozzie Guillen.

Member
johnsilver
3 years 9 months ago

How funny on Guillen, but got a feeling if Guillen somehow EVER managed to con someone into hiring him as a GM, he would continue spouting irrelevance rather than at least something to do with deals and moves like Cash has been.

Member
Phillies_Aces35
3 years 9 months ago

He was open about the Arod deal wasn’t he? I don’t remember him being this outspoken though.

I think Cashman is a good GM and I’m sure he’s a decent guy… He’s just making me scratch my head today.

Member
wrecky1
3 years 9 months ago

Actually, if you follow the Yankees with any consistency, you will know that Cashman has always been quite outspoken.  His peers agree that he is one of the best GM’s in all of baseball.  Just see recent quotes from Dave Dombrowski (Tigers), Kevin Towers (Padres, Diamondbacks), Theo Epstein (Red Sox), and Kenny Williams (White Sox).  Cashman is about as much of a straight shooter as you are going to get in this business.  I applaud his candor and honesty regarding his dealings.  He is a smart enough guy, so I’m sure he knew he would get some backlash for these recent comments.  And honestly, there is nothing wrong with what he said.  He thought Gardner was more valuable to Yanks than Crawford because he is cheaper and a better defender.  He is correct.  He thought Montero was the best prospect that potentially changed hands among all the Lee trades.  So far he is correct on that.  Time will tell, but so far so good.

Member
jammin502
3 years 9 months ago

Sure hope the Cubs don’t go after Cashman, he seems quite unprofessional after these comments.  I think that he should stay with the shady organization that he is already in!

Member
wrecky1
3 years 9 months ago

Yea, cause the Cubs are the opitomy of a successful franchise. 

Member
wrecky1
3 years 9 months ago

Yea, the Cubs are such a classy and successful franchise.  They couldn’t possibly want or need Cashman because he divulged what everyone already knew, the Yanks never really wanted or needed Crawford.  Enjoy rooting for the biggest failure of a franchise in all of sports.

Member
dapoktan
3 years 9 months ago

this.

Member
wrecky1
3 years 9 months ago

Cashman is probably pissed everyone kept crapping on him all offseason and comparing how Theo was better.  Now that the opposite is true, he is expousing his true feelings.  I agree with him.  He got and gets a lot of crap in a lose/lose situation.  When he succeeds, people say it is because of payroll.  When he fails, people say he stinks because he has such a high payroll.  Good for him for shooting his mouth off.  His team has made the playoffs 16 of 17 years regardless of payroll.  On a side note, ask the Dodgers, Cubs, Mets, White Sox, Orioles how many times they made the playoffs with high payrolls…

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

great example of reading your bias into something. cashman:

What I said was accurate: The Red Sox had a great winter, and I had a bad winter. But as it turned out, I had a better winter than anybody would’ve expected, including myself.he’s not boasting about how he knew his moves were brilliant all along; he’s acknowledging it turned way better than even he expected it wouldthere’s something to be said for him wanting to prove himself, but probably just to his own meddling overseers in the new york front office – the ones who forced the soriano signing and probably drive him nuts every offseason. his contract is up and they’d be foolish to let him go

Member
dapoktan
3 years 9 months ago

cashman and yankee managers never get credit, but the underdog red sox gm and manager’s get to be media’s darling year in and year out.  How is the market and team given to the gm and manager in boston inferior to the yankees?

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

how is the boston market inferior to the new york market? notsureifsrs

Member
MattCMoore
3 years 9 months ago

Am I the only one who dont understand your name?

Member
Yankees420
3 years 9 months ago

It took me a while too.  Guess why?

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I’m sure you would agree that Boston and NY are not dramatically different from a baseball income standpoint.

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

???

revenue

BOS $427M
NYY $272M

franchise value

BOS $912M
NYY $1.7B

mind you, that’s despite the fact that the yankees already share the new york market with the mets

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

Except the mets are the laughing stock of the town and irrelevant just like the A’s in the bay area.

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

revenue

NYM $233M (6th)

franchise value

NYM $747M (5th)