Rockies Links: Wandy Rodriguez, Michael Young

Let's round up the latest from the club at the highest altitude…


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26 Comments on "Rockies Links: Wandy Rodriguez, Michael Young"


CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 9 months ago

Did we ever find out what the deal was for Young?

3 years 9 months ago

I heard it was bad for the Rangers…like Eric Young Jr. or something…

3 years 9 months ago

The Rockies want a lot of things

Wandy Rodriguez
Michael Young
David Wright

Did they want Craig Tatum before he was snapped up by the Astros?
How about a Mystery Player?

Inquiring Minds want to know!

wsox05
3 years 9 months ago

I think the Rockies end up making a deal for Gavin Floyd.  They were interested last offseason and at the deadline this year.  He is a lot cheaper than Rodriguez.

jwsox
3 years 9 months ago

John danks for one of the ubaldo trade pieces.

Victor Kipp
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t see Young as a National league player at this point in his career.  He reminds me a bit of Paul Molitor, albeit a slight poor mans version of him.  He would be best served as a DH/Platoon infielder from this point on and mostly at 1B.  Unless Texas wants to spend a lot of $$$ on pitching they really shouldn’t trade him.  Last winter all that was talked about was moving Young and all he did was lead the league in hits.  If he could just DH from now on he has a chance at 3,000 hits and a hall of fame induction.  

MetsMagic
3 years 9 months ago

I can’t see Young fitting in with the Rockies. He’s a great hitter, and his ability to play all infield positions and DH make him valuable to an AL team like the Rangers. Problem is, his not good enough defensively (and at this age he isn’t getting better) to play one single position every day.

woadude
3 years 9 months ago

Would the Red Sox and Astros line up for a trade? Send Kevin Youkilis and cash to the Astros and the Red Sox get Wandy Rodriguez.

stroh
3 years 9 months ago

Would be a good trade if the Astros planned to compete next year.   I think the Astros are totally into rebuilding and going with young players, following the Diamondbacks and Rays model.   So if they trade Wandy it will be for high ceiling prospects.

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

The Astros are not going to get much for Rodriguez, unless they’re willing to eat a lot of his contract and it sounds like they’re not. American League teams are worried about how well he’ll do there, he’s 32, and he’s under a three year contract that is not a bargain for a 2.5 WAR pitcher (IF he’s a 2.5 WAR pitcher moving forward). You MIGHT get one A prospect (somebody in BA’s top 50), or a couple of B’s and a C, but that’s about the most you should expect to get back. He’s not that good, young, or cheap.

stroh
3 years 9 months ago

Not that good…..3.54, 3.02, 3.60, 3.49 ERA the last 4 years, pitched 190+ innings 3 out of the 4 years, struck out 166, 178, 193 batters the last 3 years, best BA against over last 4 years has been .256…..Not that young…..he is 32, at the prime of his career……Not that cheap….contract for around $12M/year.   And was a 11 game winner and .500 pitcher on a horrendous team last year.   Good luck (to the Rockies or anyone else) in finding some other pitcher on the open market with those accomplishments.   Better get your top prospects ready if you want him…..

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

32 is not usually prime for anyone, and 33, 34, and 35 are definitely not, even for a pitcher, but hey, maybe Wandy’s an outlier. Those are decent ERA’s but his WAR totals the last 5 years going back are 2.7, 2.5, 5.1 (age 30, hmmm) 1.9, and 1.3. If Wandy didn’t have a player option his 3rd year, you might get what you think you’re going to get, but 3 years $36 million is about what he’d bring if he were a FA, so why would anyone give up big prospects to pay market value on a #3 starter?

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

That isn’t market value this year with almost no one on the market even worth a minor league deal, and Wandy would be a top of the rotation starter on most teams. Also consider that this IS essentially his prime. He got a later start than a lot of pitchers, so his arm isnt nearly as worn out, and he’s a lefty which many suggest adds to longevity, so those two factors combined with his consistent performance after a couple up and down years should make teams appreciate what he brings to the table, and if he played for anyone BUT the Astros teams would be lining up begging for him, but he’s tainted, just like Pence was, like Bourn was, like Lance was.

Now everyone’s saying wow, how did the Stros let Berkman go, he hit almost .500 in the WS, and how come they let such a young talented outfield duo like Pence and Bourn go for peanuts, when before the trade they were being touted as mid tier players. Put Wandy on a competitive team and his ERA will go down with better fielders behind him and his value in the eyes of the league go up.

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

Sorry, but Wandy is not a top of the rotation starter on any team planning to win a championship.  If Rodriguez were a top of the rotation-type he would have been traded for at the last deadline. Wandy reached his peak in 2009; take a look at his stats at either fangraphs or BR, and the bell-shaped pattern you will find is that of a guy who is heading out of his prime, but see what you’d like to see. As for ERA, check out his FIP and xFIP and they will suggest Rodriguez’s ERA is actually a little better than it should have been, this year.

And after this year, I think people are more likely to ask, ‘how did the Yankees let Berkman go?’…at least the Astros got Paredes and Melancon in the deal.

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

Still disagreeing. Good players reflect the teams they play on just as often as they outperform them. Berkman, Pence, and Oswalt were perfect examples. Not counting his time with the yankees during which he was only a little below average, Lance shined more after he left Houston, Pence REALLY turned it on in Philly equalling his home run numbers and showing more patience at the plate. Oswalt outpitched the entire Philly rotation down the stretch last season and looked good this year before his injury. When a team is in a slump it effects a lotof players abilities, King Felix being an exception playing for an awful Seattle team. I say Wandy turns it on too.

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

Ok. You obviously have a poor working understanding of sample sizes and statistics, so this conversation is going to be pointless until you’ve educated yourself on some basics, because I don’t have the time, interest, and energy to bring you up to speed. Hey, knock yourself out believing Wandy’s going to bring you top talent and ignore the evidence to the contrary–evidence, btw, GM’s will be using to evaluate WR, as well.

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

Paredes played decently at 3b, and wasnt a total slouch with the bat, so I dont think we rush to throw a 33 y/o 3b in his declining years when we’re trying, with the exception of carlos, to go younger at every position.

stroh
3 years 9 months ago

I like Paredes as well, but longer term I think he moves over to 2nd base.  I’m not sold that Altuve is an everyday major leaguer – he doesn’t walk much, and doesn’t get many extra base hits.   I think the “infield of the future” for the Astros (in 2013) will be Jonathan Singleton at 1B, Jimmy Paredes at 2B, Jonathan Villar at SS and TBD at 3B.  TBD may be Mike Kvansicka in A ball, but he hasn’t shown much power yet.

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

He’s hit everywhere he’s ever played and he’s a career .327/.386/.481 hitter in the minors. He’s walked about 9% of the time and he’s only struck out about 10.5% of the time, which to me says he puts the ball in play. Not quite Jeff Keppinger numbers on the K’s, and certainly he wont be taking 100 walks a year, but he can steal 40 bases a year. He averaged almost 50/162 games played in the minors. He probably won’t be Joe Morgan, but I don’t see any reason he can’t be a better than serviceable second baseman for many years to come.

stroh
3 years 9 months ago

Don’t get me wrong, I like Altuve, and yes I think he is “serviceable”.   But, I think Singleton, Paredes, and Villar are going to be more than serviceable, at least that’s my projection.  We just either need Kvanicka to step up in the minors, or get another 3rd baseman via the trade or draft route.   I do think that Altuve will be with in the major leagues long term in a capable utility role, much like Keppinger.   One thing Altuve has is “grit”, which can’t be taken away from him.    Unlike many Astros fans, I am excited about the young talent, and I am looking forward to 3 years from now when not only these guys but George Springer, Paul Clemens, Brett Oberholzer, Jarred Cosart, Adrian Houser, Mike Foltynewicz, and our really high draft choices from this year start making an impact.   I am all for the youth movement, and I’m glad we cleaned house of veterans in the last 2-3 years of their career, or players in their prime, who in many cases will not be in their prime 3 years from now.

BobbyJohn
3 years 9 months ago

Rodriguez peaked in 2009, and has seen a decline in a number of significant stats in each of the next two seasons. His innings pitched, adjusted ERA, K/9, and BB/9 have all gone in the wrong direction. To me, that looks like a guy who is on the decline, not on the way up.

I don’t see him being “the guy” in Colorado at $12 million per for the next three years.

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

Try telling that to Josh and stroh. I didn’t read your post until after I responded below, and yeah, looks to me like W.R. has followed a fairly standard performance curve. Fangraphs has his yearly WAR totals as 1.7, 2.7, 2.6, 4.0, 3.6, 1.5, and baseballreference WAR’s are -1.3, 1.3, 1.9, 5.0, 2.3, 2.7. You’re right, Wandy is not ‘trending upward’.

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

In my most recent post above I state a case that he likely gets better on a better team in the mold of many former Astros, most recently Lance, Roy, and Hunter. It’s not scientific, but it has played itself out time and again

setupunchtag
3 years 9 months ago

You did not state a case. You engaged in wishful thinking. “some lefties get better with age”, “some players get better when they play for better teams”. Read up on FIP and xFIP, and age progressions, don’t rely so heavily on ERA for your evaluations (it’s becoming as passe as only using Batting Average as definitive proof a player is a good hitter), and then maybe we can talk.

Joshua Jackson
3 years 9 months ago

Im pointing out what are considered to be facts. It is considered a fact among baseball minds that lefties age better. It is also been stated as fact by physicians in a recent TJ article I read after Waino’s injury that a pitchers arm has a pitch count that contributes to injuries and career longevity, a count that Wandy didn’t even start rolling the meter on until much later than more respected pitchers. I dont look at just ERA, I also consider his swing and miss stuff and, when on, his plus changeup and one of the top curveballs in baseball. More FACTS that you can’t dispute. Age progression is worth noting, but athletes age faster than normal, and lose effectiveness over time, due to the strain they put on their bodies. going back to his career innings pitched compared to his age, he hasn’t put nearly the strain on his body that someone like Oswalt, Halladay, or Arroyo have. I’m not calling you stupid, I’m making valid points based on years of personal experience. That is also in no way discounting YOUR experience that you no doubt have, but again I didnt call YOU stupid, you, on the other hand, implied that I was.

BobbyJohn
3 years 9 months ago

Rodriguez’s performance numbers are going in the wrong direction, while his salary isn’t.

The Rockies need pitching, but not at that price tag. If the Astros take lesser prospects and pay some of the freight, then sure, but not if Colorado has to take on the whole deal.