Baseball Blogs Weigh In: Pujols, Reyes, Cespedes

As expected, the winter meetings brought plenty of excitement and changed the baseball landscape this week. The Angels and Marlins made multiple significant additions while other clubs did some fine tuning. Here's the latest from around the baseball blogosphere on all of this week's moves and more…

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50 Comments on "Baseball Blogs Weigh In: Pujols, Reyes, Cespedes"


start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 8 months ago

If anyone who’s seen some of the junk that’s come into the Hall lately think Pedro doesn’t deserve his place then they are either biased against him or just foolish.

In his prime Pedro wasn’t just one of the best of his era but one of the best of all time. He deserves first ballot entrance.

EdinsonPickle
3 years 8 months ago

Well, the argument against him is the lack of longevity to his career as he pretty much burned out by 35 or so. That really is the only argument against him; that and people who hold a grudge over Don Zimmer because that of course should be analyzed when we look at his HoF credentials.

I liken him to Sandy Koufax though. Koufax blossomed late and burned out early, but as is the case with Pedro, his short run of dominance was one for the ages. The numbers both of them put up in the prime of their careers were remarkable, and now with Koufax being in the Hall, how could you possibly keep Pedro out?

LordD99
3 years 8 months ago

A good percentage of HOFers are elected by their peak value.  The reason every ballplayer who hit 500 HRs at one time was in the HOF was not because they hit 500 HRs, but because they were dominant hitters who just happened to end up with 500+ HRs. Ditto for 3,000 hits.  

We’re now in an age with longer schedules, the DH, better medical care, and higher salaries keeping the players in the game longer (oh, yeah, and in some cases, PEDs) allowing them to achieve counting stats formerly achieved by all-time greats, the inner-circle crowd, and more importantly the near greats, who deserve to be recognized, too.  For example, one of the all-time greats, Mickey Mantle, could have called it a career after ten full seasons in 1961 with 370+ career HRs and he would have waltzed into the HOF.  Albert Pujols could end his career today, short of 500 career HRs and 3,000 career hits, yet he gets elected on the first ballot.  Yet if someone like Johnny Damon clicks through 3,000 hits, is he a HOFer?  I sure hope note.

It’s about the peak.  Pedro had the peak. He’s not an inncer-circle HOFer, but he had the greatness and did it long enough to be a HOFer.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Look.. Without trying to sound cynical of what Martinez did (and he did a LOT) you still have to begin putting other pitchers into the HOF who had dominant periods. Tiant and jack morris come to mind right away.. They might not have had the fancy hits per innings, walk ratios etc.. But those guys dominated with winning clutch games and translating into wins themselves which too many people like to overlook.

many like to take short term periods where martinez dominated, say’97-2003. He won 20 games 2 times and 19 once, didn’t throw 200 IP every season.. Understand it was sort of a different period, but still.. Tiant threw 250IP+ as often as martinez threw 200 and the same with Jack Morris.

maybe we can’t get into complete games which martinez rarely threw and Tiant + Morris took extreme pride into, as both had over 175 each…

Wanting martinez in for that shot term, because Koufax somehow managed to get in with an even shorter (and more dominant btw) period just leaves the Hall open to more and more overall mediocrity

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 8 months ago

I take pride in my high standards for which a player should get into the Hall. I believe a player shouldn’t be just a great player in their own time but a great player in all times. Or at least a truly great in their own time but a good player over all.

To me, comparing Pedro to Tiant or Morris is an insult. Tiant was very good in his prime and good overall in his career, Morris could be arguably the same but with a single moment that was worthy of remembrance (Game 7 1991 World Series). But overall even though they were good in their time they weren’t players I go back to and say “I wish I had had seen them live.” (Though I did see the great game pitched by Morris).

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

My main point against martinez is his too short of a career, as 226 win total. I do realize he only loast like 100 games, but he just did not last long enough to make it to the Hall.

Not saying myself any SP out there really deserve it, but if there is, the 1st (to me) would be Jim Kaat and for positional players, Timmy Raines, billy Buckner and maybe even Andre Dawson if his lack of taking a walk can ever get over looked.

Writers need to quit letting their ballots get influenced by their hearts, as was with Ronny Santo moreso than worrying about these others named.

Have full expectations they will continue to butcher even more people allowed in, just as they always have and it is almost always the old timers committee that is responsible for these types. Just like the ones who allowed in Jim Ed Rice…

Edit:

What a dolt I am looked and got rude reminder that The hawk was elected to the HOF cpl years back….

RationalSportsFan
3 years 8 months ago

Buckner?  You could only make a case for him if you look at one number…hits (though it took him 22 years to get his 2700+).  However, he was a below average hitter for his career (OPS+ of 99), and managed to accumulate a massive 12 WAR in his career.

And, if you like old school measurements, he had 1 all-star appearance and never finished higher than 10th in the MVP race.

Even suggesting Buckner is borderline ridiculous.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Have you even read the above posts?? Evidently not and just grabbed Billy Buck out and decided i wanted him in the Hall…

No.. Buck is **Another** case of mediocrity who could get elected and comparable to Santo, even dawson who after looking him up saw was in.

BTW.. Top 10 mvp votes??? WHAT does that have to do with being a prerequisite for the Hall?? total hits, career average, grit on the field.. Those play a part also…

People (hitters) who could be? Tony Oliva, Dwight Evans.. I am not saying ANY of these deserve it and if you have seen me post here since Tim STARTED this blog, then you know I am one who wants HOF standards toughened up and the old timers committee abolished period to stop the borderline members being added anyway.

John McFadin
3 years 8 months ago

I know I’m really late to the party here, but I had to say something since no one else did, for whatever reason.  You shouldn’t get rude with someone for calling you out on a dumb opinion.  All I read in your posts was back-ward looking analysis.  Stop quoting win totals like you actually believe they mean anything at all.  Don’t come back and say you only quoted win totals because the HOF voters do, because that is not at all what you implied.  Your analysis basically makes no sense to me.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

I named off Morris, Buck, El Tiante as people who may have had a remote chance in some of the old timer’s committee just because some of the people might have had an inclination to vote for them because they actually ***SAW*** them play and not using pure, new forms of statistics as many now use to judge how much a player has value.

Does this system of analysis mean that people voted in, say before 1990 and are not up to snuff should all be re analyzed and the ones deemed not quite there, booted out?

Should Ray Schalk be thrown out as one example? I am “old” here and granted, not old enough to have seen him play, but saw a bunch of the people that a lot of people here grab statistics only here, then attempt to tear apart without bothering at all to think that some people could have witnessed what some of these people did and how good these people were, though maybe not HOF good and it is sickening.

Sometimes think the entire statistics only way people use should be tossed into the garbage pile.

John McFadin
3 years 8 months ago

I’m honestly not even sure what you’re trying to say.  It seems like you leave out way too many words to really make any sense at all.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Common problem of mine there..Leaving out words on blogs…

For those who have seen me post here over the years.. The way started the 1st post did not think was rude, nor was it at all intended to be.

As for a “dumb” opinion your self suggested.. That was your opinion there and thought got the point across, but maybe not.

Not in 1 place did I ever say that either Morris, nor Tiant deserve to be enshrined into the HOF. I just mentioned other areas inwhich they had a advantage over Martinez that do not seem to count in the statistics that are used now days by the *geniuses* of the game.. Complete games being one. Starts being another as Tiant especially worked with a 4 man rotation in his career with only 3 days off his entire career.. Innings pitched, both were “workload” guys etc..

BUT… I still do not think either deserves to be in the HOF, neither does Martinez if you (no offense there to make it clear) or anyone else stumbles upon this post.. **IF** any of these getting old, age wise SP (IMO) makes it to the HOF, of the ones I laid eyes upon, it would be Jim Kaat as have been saying for years both here since this site began and other places.

Apologies for not being clear and hope this makes things a bit more “open”…?

John McFadin
3 years 8 months ago

You can’t compare those “workhorse” pitchers to pitchers today now though, which you have done in every post on this topic.  Pitching then was a lot different than it is today.  You can’t fault the pitcher that there is a 5 man rotation now.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

There lies the entire thing… Saying you cannot compare pitchers of yesterday to today, soley because ones today simply do not pitch as much as the ones 2, even 3 decades ago did.. I simply cannot get over that.. It makes no sense why St lovers refuse to get over their “love” of bb/K ratio with pitchers of all ages, yet simply toss aside the “Iron” part of how they would take the ball every 4 days..

It is simply.. Hillarious.

John McFadin
3 years 8 months ago

The other reply thread is too small so I’m replying to this message, but talking about the last post you wrote.  How is it hilarious?  You can’t say that the pitchers of today couldn’t be as “iron” as the pitchers of yesterday.  You can’t say that at all.  So you really can’t give that to the yesteryear pitcher’s favor.  It’s not today’s pitchers fault that they don’t go every 3-4 days now.  It’s the way baseball is played today.  There’s no reason to think that a player couldn’t throw 300 innings today, they just aren’t given the chance to.  And what are you talking about, with k/bb?  There’s hardly any comparison at all now.  Even mediocre pitchers nowadays have a decent k/bb compared to some of the great old pitchers.  But, I can tell it’s pointless to even debate with you, you’re one of those “I can see how good he is with my eyes, plus look at all those wins!  Don’t forget about that really high batting average!”  And that’s not going to change.  Close minded people normally stay close minded.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

No.. Even some who have watched and been fans for nearly 50 years bring in some and it’s not all about winds, once again adding in you must have never paid attention to any of my posts over the years…

It is hard pointing out what it was even like with going over how to judge players a few decades back.. few games televised, except all braves games **IF** you had some primitive cable.. Radio, 2 games a week on television and not much time before that, only 1. to judge by except for radio announcers and that is not anything to go by.

Cannot go back and see on this tiny reply.. Wish knew what did these things here on MLBTR…

LordD99
3 years 8 months ago

The problem with your argument is players like Jack Morris weren’t dominant.  Pedro was.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Missing the entire point there.. I am not calling on any of that trio to be enshrined. martinez was no dominant long enough. I just threw out both Morris and Tiant because they had periods of Ace and fearsome reputations, plus were at least as worthy in other ways (workhorses, as in liked to finish games they started plus dominant) however I think none of those 3 belong in the Hall, as well as NONE of the names that I have mentioned thus far and thought had made this clear throughout all these posts?

The only SP, not in the Hall who comes the **closest** to enshrinement and is not in **to me** would be Jim Kaat.

That would be mainly because he played his entire career as an outstanding workhorse and that only. I am **not** saying he deserves it, but is the closest SP not in. probably because remember most of his career and how much of a bulldog mentality he had on the mound, even when he was ‘2nd fiddle”  and out shined by other more flashy pitchers he was teamed with, such as Jim Perry, Dean Chance, Mudcat Grant etc…

3 years 8 months ago

I think that as soon as you have to start “inventing” numbers to make someone look Hall of Fame (Morris was “pitcher of the decade”, using CG as a major component of an argument for HOF election) you know you’ve got a guy who’s probably borderline, at best.

Meanwhile, if you start of list of the best starting pitchers of the last, say, 20 or so years (back to say 1990), then Pedro is in the top 5 of any list.

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

I agree on Santo.. remember him well from his Cubbie days, but he was a heart tug guy who got elected to the hall based on what he had to endure after his career.

Guys like Tony Oliva, Dwight Evans and half dozen others had careers exactly as he did,or better in Evans case and nobody says they belong.

Tyler Jedrzejak
3 years 8 months ago

i dont think the braves should have to answer the reyes signing….but the buehrle,bell,reyes, signings may be a different answer

Lester Foxx
3 years 8 months ago

Darvish’s agent (Don Nomura) demanded for $20M per year salary or he’ll stay in Japan.

grownice
3 years 8 months ago

  Sponichi
has mentioned that Darvish wants around US$20M a year — he puts
himself at the same level of C.C. Sabathia, Roy Halladay, and Johan
Santana.

Take these with a grain of salt but, wow. Personality seems a lil iffy if these comments are true.

3 years 8 months ago

Yeah.  Not sure how much stock we can put into these reports on his attitude that have come up over the past couple of weeks, but they really don’t make him look good.

Luke Adams
3 years 8 months ago

Keep in mind the same outlet has reported this week that the Red Sox won the bidding for Nakajima and that the Yankees offered Kuroda a contract.

notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

if that is interpretable as fee+salary, it’s not a lot more than what matsuzaka received

grownice
3 years 8 months ago

I would hope its fee plus salary , but this makes it seem like salary alone.

LordD99
3 years 8 months ago

He’ll never get it because of the posting fee and the fact he’s never thrown a pitch in MLB.  If that’s what he wants, he should go back to Japan and continue pitching there the next two seasons, after which he can be an unrestricted free agent, free to negotiate with all MLB teams, who can then allocate what would have been the posting fee towards his salary. 

scott brecht
3 years 8 months ago

The Ron Santo link is to a St. Louis Cardinals blogger.  It’s not a real journalist or somebody’s opinion worth caring about.   

3 years 8 months ago

You did read the title of this post, right?

Madman2TX
3 years 8 months ago

BTIA doesn’t get that the Rangers didn’t want Wilson back…maybe not even for what they informally offered him. The guy has a lot of flaws and has peaked as really a 2-3 pitcher instead of a true ace. He can overpower, but he can also go kablooey like he did in the All-Star game and the World Series. I also doubt that Wash has forgotten Wilson’s immaturity that time that Ron yanked Wilson from a game and CJ flipped the ball at him rather than hand it to him. The Angels are getting a big…ego.

JacksTigers
3 years 8 months ago

I like the WAR calculator. I think I’ll bookmark it. The only thing that I think needs changing, or perhaps I am misusing it, is the value. I don’t think that Miguel Cabrera is worth $38.4MM/year. Could someone please explain?

3 years 8 months ago

Fangraphs calculates a $ value per WAR each year.  So you take a player’s WAR, multiply it by the $ amount per WAR and you get value.

They explain the methodology in more depth on fangraphs.

JacksTigers
3 years 8 months ago

I used that calculator to see what Nick Castellanos’ WAR would have been in A this past season. I averaged everything so that it would compare well to the MLB schedule of 162 as opposed to that of the Midwest League of 141. It came out as a WAR of 3.6. Not too bad for his first full year in the minors.

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

He did lead A in hits. I cant wait to see if he can play in the majors!

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

He did lead A in hits. I cant wait to see if he can play in the majors!

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 8 months ago

Sport of Boston’s article on $100M contracts missed a major point…it mentioned Manny’s, A-Rod’s, and Pujols’ $100M+ contract as the only successful ones. What about Jeter? That was definitely a successful $100M+ signing…and I’m a Sox fan!

Pedro definitely deserves first ballot HOF. In his prime (yes, those good old years Boston), he was unhittable. Every time I look up his stats, I’m still amazed…how in the world did he achieve those numbers? Particularly in the steroids era, and when league ERA averages were often high 4s and low 5s! Pedro’s ERA: high 1s and low 2!

LordD99
3 years 8 months ago

My guess is they probably were operating under the mistaken belief that all $100-million contracts were given to players who became free agents.  Jeter signed his contract while still under team control.  Then again, maybe he is the only player to sign a $100-million-plus contract without technically being a free agent?  Hmmm, well, there is at least one other.  Joe Mauer.

Ferrariman
3 years 8 months ago

Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitzski.  

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 8 months ago

Matt Kemp.

3 years 8 months ago

I think Cespedes would be a good fit for the Cardinals. A young power bat in CF. He could become what we thought we had in Rasmus. It’d be better investment than Beltran.

3 years 8 months ago

He could probably step in immediately and play RF while Craigs out, then play CF when Craig comes back. Then we have a right handed hitting CF with power. We need that.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 8 months ago

Here’s a fill in the blanks for any other fan:

“I think Cespedes would be a good fit for *Insert your favorite team name here*. A young power bat in CF. He could become what we thought we had in *Insert name of either a failed prospect or a decent young player that was traded away*. It’d be better investment than *Insert Beltran, Cuddyer, any other OF FA name, or failed prospect here*. “

FunkyTime
3 years 8 months ago

Incorrect.

Us Tiger fans think he’d be a great fit in LF, not CF.

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

Probly RF. Ive been told that he will play right cause of his strong throwing arm. Plus Boesch is a horrible defender so it dont really matter where he plays.

FunkyTime
3 years 8 months ago

 LF in Comerica is huge, so it’d make a lot more sense for him to play LF and Boesch right.  Boesch has a great arm too, just poor range.

(but my post was mostly a joke about the very minor difference for it to apply to the Tigers as well)

Hermie13
3 years 8 months ago

ha, am I the only one that thinks it’s extremely comical that an indians blogger would be upset that there was no reported interest by the Tribe in Jose Reyes?  I mean, yeah I agree that Cabrera would be a better fit at 2B (though Kipnis in LF, heck no), but really why would the Indians even bother with Reyes? It would be insulting to Reyes and a waste of everyone’s time to even bother sitting down with him. They never could have competed with the Marlins offer or any offer from a larger market.

Plus, why all the hate on Jack Hananahan?

Quick…name the top 3 leaders in WARP (per BP) on the Indians last year? *hint* Asdrubal Cabrera was NOT one of them…

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

Paid him ace money though…

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

Paid him ace money though…

MattCMoore
3 years 8 months ago

Haha!