Olney’s Latest: Yankees, Ethier, Angels, Blue Jays

In today's Insider-only blog post, ESPN's Buster Olney ranks the ten best outfields in the game. The Diamondbacks, Yankees, and Rangers top the list, though I thought it was surprising the Rays didn't even garner an honorable mention. Here are Buster's rumors…

  • The Yankees have "quietly checked around" on possible right field alternatives to Nick Swisher as they prepare for his possible free agent departure after next season.
  • Andre Ethier can also become a free agent after 2012, and Olney points out that a pre-deadline trade involving the Dodgers outfielder is possible.
  • "[Angels owner Arte Moreno] made it known he wants to leave the baseball decisions to the baseball department," said one talent evaluator. Manager Mike Scioscia essentially dictated moves in the past, but that has changed since Moreno hired GM Jerry Dipoto earlier this offseason.
  • Sources tell Olney that the Blue Jays are much more like to hold or even cut their payroll rather than increase it.


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128 Comments on "Olney’s Latest: Yankees, Ethier, Angels, Blue Jays"


jjs91
3 years 7 months ago

I cant see the yankees interested in andre when swisher is the better player.

captainjeter
3 years 7 months ago

Ethier is making 9.25  million. Swisher is making  10 million. If Swisher has  a good year, he will ask for a  4-5 year  deal at 15 million.I  don’t see the Yankees  giving him  60-75 million.
Ethier has regressed the past  2 years. He  will be  30 in April. Swisher just   turned  31 in Novemeber. If Ethier continues  to struggle ,he won’t get mch of a deal in years or  money.
Besides  the Yankees need to hold  aside money for  Cano and  Grandersen.

0bsessions
3 years 7 months ago

So your argument is that the Yankees should get a player whose numbers are trending in the wrong direction because the fact he’s declining will bring his price down?

By that flawless logic, the Yankees should go sign Vlad for right field, he’ll be cheap and all.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

I’m not sure why the Swish can’t be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I think he signs with tha Yanks if he’s offered a 4/$50 deal which is realistic. I don’t see any team giving him $15 per.

The_BiRDS
3 years 7 months ago

“AA is such a genius”

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

 You’re finally coming around! It’s about time.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

If the only good move AA ever made was trading Vernon Wells, I’d still classify him as a genius.  Throw Marcum for Lawrie on top of that and he attains super genius status

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

I dunno the Escobar trade was definately one of my favs to, it’s so hard to find a good SS nowadays.

LA
3 years 7 months ago

People are also forgetting that he lobbied JP Riccardi to trade for Jose Bautista.

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 7 months ago

Yeah, isn’t it cool how Bautista had a higher WAR than Holliday and Jon Jay combined? Just wait until Jay’s BABIP drops to the normal .300, and his WAR drops to replacement-level because of it. :)

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

He’s a very good general manager.

Even though a lot of Blue Jays fans think he walks on water (still hasn’t been proven that he can’t) and even though the trade worked out for the Cardinals, it was far from the reason they went to the post season and I’d trade a bunch of middle relievers and a #3 starter for a 5 tool outfielder every day of the week.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

Colby Rasmus is not a 5 tool player.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

He has the potential to be one. I should’ve said potential.

Still, the hate this guy gets from St. Louis baffels me. Because he wasn’t one of Tony LaRussa’s chess pieces? I understand why he didn’t like him as Tony ran a tight ship.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

The Jays should hope that he can merely be an adequate placeholder for Gose before they ship him off to some other team that is tired of his excuses.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

wait…that isn’t worded right, but you know what I mean.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

Rasmus was hated on in STL because of his constant excuse making, under production, shoddy outfield play, refusal to listen to the coaches, and constant meddling from his father in the media.  It didn’t help his cause that he twice requested a trade because he couldn’t handle LaRussa’s expectations of following instruction.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

I can understand why STL fans hated on Rasmus but theres no reason why he can’t have a turnaround in Toronto and live up to his potential.
obviously he couldn’t live up to the pressure in STL and hopefully a full season in Toronto he can relax and just play ball.
AA gambles on trading for unhappy players. And has had success with Escobar,Lawrie and to a lesser degree Morrow. Buying low is what he does best.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

I can understand why STL fans hated on Rasmus but theres no reason why he can’t have a turnaround in Toronto and live up to his potential.
obviously he couldn’t live up to the pressure in STL and hopefully a full season in Toronto he can relax and just play ball.
AA gambles on trading for unhappy players. And has had success with Escobar,Lawrie and to a lesser degree Morrow. Buying low is what he does best.

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

#thingscardsfanswouldnthavesaidbefore2011

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

all of these things were true prior to 2011

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

He had a great 2010, though.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

Rasmus was hated on in STL because of his constant excuse making, under production, shoddy outfield play, refusal to listen to the coaches, and constant meddling from his father in the media.  It didn’t help his cause that he twice requested a trade because he couldn’t handle LaRussa’s expectations of following instruction.

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

true. He won’t hit for a great average. Everything else he does fine.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

But he CAN!! I once saw AA walking across lake Ontario!!
Seriously though, I agree AA made a good move trading spare parts that had no future with the Jays for a ‘potential’ 5 tool OF.
What the trade comes down to is Rasmus for Zep and Zach Stewart. Both pitchers are easily replaceable for the upside they have in Rasmus.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Ahhh…we found a chink in AA’s armour….He can’t swim!

I like the Rasmus trade.  But, I see it costing the Jays Zep, Stewart, 2 supplemental picks, and $10m.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

You’re right. Adding Teahan (who’s taking up a roster spot) and losing the potential picks when Dotel left have to be figured in. But overall its still worth getting Rasmus.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Yep….there was a gaping hole in CF.  Losing Rasmus to free agency in 2+ years probably nets you a 1st and supplemental which is greater than two supplemental picks.  It is unlikely Zep or Stewart become valuable enough to net draft picks when reaching free agency.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Rasmus is a below average player, he fits in good with the Jays, average and cheap.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Wow…with Frasor back…trade is now Zep Stewart Jaye Webb & a supplemental pick (Dotel) plus taking $10mil in salaries.

Talk about having strings attached to players getting traded: Frasor Magnuson Farquhar

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

Agreed!!

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Yep…one of the smartest GMs in baseball

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

How about they look now and trade Swisher and Nunez to the Braves for Jair Jurrjens, JJ Hoover and Myke Jones?

BrocNessMonster
3 years 7 months ago

You’re nuts. One year of Swisher for all that?

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

I meant that with the heavy chance of resigning him, my mistake. The Braves are going to have lots of money next year so I’m sure we could handle it.

3 years 7 months ago

I dont think Swisher is worth a commitment like that.  I dont think hes that great.  An extension for Bourn would better fit the Braves needs. Hopefully Heyward comes back to provide the outfield power.

meanguygary
3 years 7 months ago

So all these geniuses in the media were wrong about the Blue Jays having buckets of cash they were dying to burn on free agents?  What a surprise!

omega369
3 years 7 months ago

The Jays are simply ‘lurking’ ………..

3 years 7 months ago

hopefully “ninja rules apply” as Wilner says. Which means that if something is said or suggested by anyone in the media it must be inaccurate.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Honestly, Wilner’s “ninja rules apply” is a simpleton explanation.  Wilner simply avoids commenting on rumours ever since he was called out for being loopy after writing his “AA will make the playoffs if he gets Chone Figgins” blog which was followed by his “AA will make the playoffs if he only followed my instructions” blog.

There are very few accurate rumours relating to AA because he only allows at most one extra person in any meeting with other GMs.  This keeps the blabber mouths out of the loop most of the time.  But, not all of the time.

MattTbay83
3 years 7 months ago

They have money. I’m just curious, if they DO plan to cut payroll, who do they cut? Bautista is the only one that I can think of making anywhere near or above 10 mil. The rest of the team are younger, affordable contracts, except for Teahen.

blurnandez
3 years 7 months ago

Wait, so you’re actually treating Olney’s story as fact?

BrocNessMonster
3 years 7 months ago

I really hope Dre starts off strong so we can get something for him.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Then you should celebrate and Crack A Bottle open of champagne for him. Otherwise it’s time for the Jays and AA to move on to The Next Epsiode and it’s time you Forgot About Dre.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

nice hip hop reference.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Thank you sir.

Red_Line_9
3 years 7 months ago

Incidentally, the Royals were the only team with 3 outfielders in the Top 25 for OPS+ in 2011

Dave Beal
3 years 7 months ago

I wonder where they ranked on his list? I don’t see how their OF, IF and bullpen couldn’t be considered in the top 10 going forward, and hopefully we’ll be saying the same thing about their young rotation after next season.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t see how the payroll can be cut considering there is still abitration players set for a raise. AA stated he still needs a BP arm or two  and a possible starter, although if he trades for them the payroll could stand pat or only raise slightly but there’s no possible way of cutting. I call BS on this rumor just like most Jays rumors.

3 years 7 months ago

I believe he has the considered the Arb raises….meaning he wont’ ADD players that will increase the payroll to much…his way of saying…..No Prince and possibly still trading away some salary….what he is doing is obvious to non Toronto fans…he is working on going the route of the Rays rather then the Yankees or Red Sawks….he wants to run a competitive team w/ young inexpensive players and have teh team atleast break even rather then spend spend spend only to lose money and still miss the playoffs….they are the 4th best team in the ALE and wont’ be sniffing the playoffs for a few years easily…..

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Yep…AA is definitely using Friedman’s playbook…BUT…with more money.  AA gains the advantage when he matches Friedman on the prospect funnel.

Most Jays think Yankees and Red Sox are the teams Jays are chasing.  In my opinion, AA is chasing Rays.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Hello, thats because the Rays have finished on top the last couple of years, the Jays have finished 4th, look where there drafting. The Jays will never beat the Rays.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

 It’s true  , the Rays didn’t need to be the basement dwellers for like 10 years before they became good right? Ofcourse , good drafting along with some conveniently high draft picks cant hurt when you have next to no payroll.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Hello, thats because the Rays have finished on top the last couple of years, the Jays have finished 4th, look where there drafting. The Jays will never beat the Rays.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

 Every non ignorant fan of the Jays knows Prince was never coming here. The point i was making is that there is no chance of payroll being cut , him counting the arb raises is still irrelevant because AA specifically said what he’d like to add , and even if he only ends up getting the BP arms and misses out on the bat and starter he said he would like , the payroll still goes up. No matter what. Your opinion of when they’ll make the playoffs means nothing , your guess is as good as anyones, but they are clearly headed in the right direction.

3 years 7 months ago

Neither of ours opinions mean squat but I definitely am not looking at their playoff chances w/ blinders….they are the 4th in their own division and look to stay there for a while and even w/ the added WC they still have too many teams that are built for the now in NYY/RS/TB/Det/Tex/LAA…3 of those will win the respective division leaving 2ALE and 1 ALW team at minimum to jump over to reach the 1 game playoff…but I do agree that they are headed in the right direction…they could be a surprise outta the blue team like when the Rays burst onto the scene…I just don’t see it soon…

Paul_Zuvella
3 years 7 months ago

The Jays have the 6th largest media market in the majors, a billion $$$ ownership group and a national fan base. Buying totally into the Rays philosophy is a total joke. The Jays should be a hybrid of the Rays/Yanks. Willing to commit to long-term players for significant money, but also focussing on developing an all-star their farm system (which they have). AA has done a great job with what he inherited, but the Jays should not have an annual payroll in the $60-80m range. They should have the resources to compete and not be forced to go into constant rebuilding mode when players leave their arb years. 

Being more aggressive and acquiring a FEW significant free agents this year would have made them contenders. By few I mean they could have gone and added one of Fielder/Darvish…..Erik Bedard (as a #4 starter, who only signed a 1 yr $4.5m deal with the Pirates) and two relievers (Broxton) and a quality lefty (Mike Gonzalez), they would have been very good this year and they would have had room to grow through trades or w/ their prospects. 

That 2012 cash outlay would have been somewhere in the $30m range and wouldn’t have required long commitments to anyone outside of Darvish/Fielder. That would bring their payroll for 2012 to $90m (with Kelly Johnson included).

It is moves like these that Jays fans want to see…which I don’t think is unrealistic. 

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I already see Jays payroll at $79.3m when you include estimated arbitration results.  I only see them adding a starter who is likely to decline a $12.5m qualifying offer when he is eligible for free agency.  This way, Jays get a 1st and supplemental pick at the end of his contract.  Bedard doesn’t fit that criteria.

I expect Jays to get relievers similar to your suggestion.  However, how they do it will depend on what they do for a starter.  If they acquire a SP, I can see them trading McGowan to a team that was in the “Slowey market” for a relief pitcher and then signing another relief pitcher.

Paul_Zuvella
3 years 7 months ago

Cot’s has Jays committed payroll at $48m for 17 players….with Arbitration they’re not likely to go too far beyond $60m w/ Janssen, Morrow and Johnson taking bulk of money. 

So someone tell me again why going into this offseason it was is unrealistic for Jays fans to expect a $90-100m payroll for this year, with it growing to $120-$140m by 2014 and the Jays acquiring a few key longer term players via free agency???

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I am going by baseball-reference.com which includes most salary arb projections except for Kelly Johnson.  Based on mlbtraderumor posts, arb projections total $17m when you include Kelly Johnson.

You should also be mindful of the future commitments from 2013 to 2016 which can also be found on baseball-reference.com.  I doubt AA will want to lose payroll flexibility just to appease a few fans.

I think he is on the right track and isn’t that far off from your thinking.

I can’t say your thinking is without merit.  But, I just don’t agree.

3 years 7 months ago

It’s not unrealistic for the Jays fans to expect it…but they should have an understanding that their team doesn’t want to run the team w/ a payroll that high…they have never been over the $100m mark nor does anyone outside of being a Tor fan think they want to….

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I agree…FanGraphs had organizational ratings last year.  This included Financial Capabilities.  They pegged Jays with Atlanta, White Sox, and Twins.

This puts them at $87m (Braves) to $115m (White Sox) payroll range.  Most likely $87m if you want to maintain a prospect funnel that keeps up with Yanks Rays and Red Sox.

Jays have payroll commitments range from $71m to $77m for the next five years.  They can’t sign big FA contracts without impacting amateur signings.  Going cheap on the draft has already been done by JP and we know the end result.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

The Jays are afraid of making another mistake!

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Blue Jays salaries (including projected arb salaries) and last year’s fWAR
Jose Bautista          $14.00m   8.3
Kelly Johnson            $7.00m     2.2
Mark Teahan             $5.50m    -0.4
Ricky Romero           $5.00m    2.9
Adam Lind                $5.00m    0.5
Yunel Escobar           $5.00m    4.3
Brandon Morrow       $4.20m     3.4
Edwin Encarnarcion   $3.50m     1.5
Rajai Davis              $2.75m     -0.2
Colby Rasmus          $2.30m      0.8
Carlos Villanueva       $1.90m      1.1
Casey Janssen         $1.60m      1.3
Jeff Mathis              $1.50m     -1.0
Sergio Santos         $1.00m      1.6
Brett Lawrie            $0.42m      2.7
Henderson Alvarez   $0.42m      1.0

Everyone else is below $1m.  Too bad Buster Olney or his source didn’t elaborate on how Blue Jays will reduce their payroll.

* Edit *
Ben Francisco $1.50m -0.1
Darren Oliver approx $3.00m 1.3

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Contract the Jays!

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

Contract them?? Whats that mean????

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Contract the Jays!

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

they’ll cut jeff mathis

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Ha Ha you guys really liked that move by AA 😀

Paul_Zuvella
3 years 7 months ago

They may try to move Rajai and cut Teahan, though that wouldn’t save the Jays much. Everyone else is affordable. 

Olney’s point, while not to be taken literally, is a way to shoot a shot across the bow of us fans and let us know that there’s no way they add any significant players before the season begins….say bye bye to Garza Jays fans, we’re not getting him if that’s the philosophy.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t believe money is the issue for Garza.  Apparently, Cubs want Alvarez Drabek & Syndergaard.  I doubt AA agrees to that price.  In my opinion, the deal gets done if Cubs agree to something like Drabek Jenkins & a B level prospect.

I expect Yankees and Red Sox to have money come back their way if they give Cubs their good prospects.  Similar to Jays sending money to Phillies on the Halladay trade.

Jays not wanting Cubs to send money will be the difference.  However, it may not be enough for the Cubs because Garza will net Cubs a 1st and supplemental pick when he becomes a free agent in two years.  That is their baseline.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

ability to hit for average and power, speed, throwing, and fielding….I’d give Colby about 2 1/2 of these

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

Cards didn’t trade him because he hit his potential , hence why they got BP pieces and a #3 rental starter for him. It was worth the risk for AA to see if he can hit his potential with the Jays , if not , what did he really lose that isn’t immediately replaceable?

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

it was a fine trade for the Jays, but Jays fans should definitely chill out on the 5-tool stuff because it simply isn’t true.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

 I agree , i think 4 tools is his ceiling. But he still has to get there.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

 I agree , i think 4 tools is his ceiling. But he still has to get there.

LA
3 years 7 months ago

 horrible year next year and everyone will want him out of Toronto. I really hope he does amazing but if he does fail. We have Marisnick and Gose behind him in the minors.

3 years 7 months ago

the jays payroll rumor is probably bogus. nobody from the jays with knowledge of the situation would spill that kind of info unless it was intended as a smokescreen should they actually be serious about signing fielder. 

besides that theres almost nobody else olney could have talked to who would actually know. probably just some agent being spiteful and trying to stir up more public pressure for the jays to spend big.

finally theres the fact that the rumor does not make mathematical sense. jays payroll will increase compared to last year because of arb raises and salary increases for bautista, romero, escobar and encarnacion. the jays current MO is to add to the big league team, not to subtract, so its difficult to imagine a scenario where payroll would drop. they already added some payroll with the santos trade.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Nil

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Nil

LA
3 years 7 months ago

Atleast Jays are getting some advertisement out of all the rumors. Was this all planned by Rogers? He pays reporters and writers to put them on every rumor?

matthew bunge
3 years 7 months ago

Beltran, Holliday, Berkman

Yeah, I definitely see how Ty Wigginton can top that

BTW to the writer:

Should be “Blue Jays are much more LIKELY”

Sam_Merten
3 years 7 months ago

They shouldn’t be No. 1, but they should definitely be in the top 5. Olney clearly forgot about them, since they’re not even in his top 10.

0bsessions
3 years 7 months ago

That’s a strong OF, but I’d say it’s a toss up between Cardinals and Yankees. The Yankees are the only team in baseball who placed their entire OF in the top thirty in WAR for outfielders last year (Two of them in the top ten). The Cardinals may have a better one lined up next year if Berkman stays in the OF, but if he moves back to 1B (Which is most likely), I’d take NY by a hair (A whole head of hair if they retain Jones as a fourth OF).

That Yankee outfield has plus defense in center and left, fantastic on base ability all around, phenomenal speed in Gardner and Granderson, excellent power in Granderson and Swisher and if Jones sticks around, they’ve got a solid defensive sub with pop (When Jones is playing right, that’s a left to right of strong defense). There’s absolutely no room for complaint in that outfield and any other team would be lucky to field it.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

For me, the Yankees have the best outfield in the game. You’ve got a centerfielder who can hit 40 bombs, the best defensive left fielder/outfielder in the game, and Nick Swisher is a solid player too. Berkman/Beltran/Holliday’s a close second for me but it’s not nearly as good of a defensive outfield. I think the Phillies outfield is a little underrated, it should definitely be in consideration, especially if Mayberry repeats his performance.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Not even close.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

LMAO!! Are you playing Jedi Mind Tricks?

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Victorino (5.9) + Pence (combined 4.7) + Mayberry Jr (2.5) + Wigginton (0.3) = a total of 13.4

Gardner (5.1) + Granderson (7.0) + Swisher (3.8) = a total of 15.9 and that doesn’t include any reserves like Andru Jones who had a 1.3 in about 80 games.

How do you figure the Phillies should be #1?

3 years 7 months ago

Berkman will play 1B

3 years 7 months ago

I should think this should be disappointing to hear to any jays fan, whether “half-***ed” or “unnecessarily hostile,” like yourself.

3 years 7 months ago

Come on when was the last time that the Jays front office released information under AA’s control? Do you really believe this when a Jays rumor comes out its either made up or an uncredible source or its Boras. I dont think Jays will increase payroll but they dont have any bad contracts and the highest paid player is Bautista at 11 million, so there is nearly no way for them to cut payroll.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Dbacks had their 3 OF in the top 30 also, although in all likelihood Parra won’t be starting next year

Edit – Sorry I was looking at UZR, not WAR

0bsessions
3 years 7 months ago

Okay, I was getting confused, I couldn’t find Parra anywhere near the top 30. The Diamondbacks are remarkably close:

15.9 total WAR for Yankees OF, 13.8 WAR for Diamondbacks OF. Plugging in Kubel for Parra is a big downgrade, though.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Gottcha.

It’s not a stretch though. Especially if you combine Nix/Mayberry’s platoon splits from last year.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Phillies outfield is very good.  Easily top 5.  Don’t forget Mayberry got 2.5 WAR in half a season.

3 years 7 months ago

whatever you say…

3 years 7 months ago

whatever you say…

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Not sure if you saw my edit in time when you responded to me. I was looking at UZR

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Guess I should’ve just scrolled down to see if anyone convered this hahaha.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Do you have Bad Intentions too?

David McCutcheon
3 years 7 months ago

Holliday > Pence, Beltran > Victorino (if healthy), Craig > Wigginton. Still trumps the Phils OF.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Beltran doesnt play CF.  Your argument is invalid.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

You’re not comparing them by actual positions though, which basically gives the Cardinals a slight offensive edge depending on health. Obviously when you mix and match them, you can mix and match it anyway you want to get a favorable match up (Mayberry > Jay, Pence > Beltran Victorino Beltran (slightly)
Center Field: Victorino > Jay
Left Field: Holliday > Wigginton/Mayberry/Nix (duh)

Projected:

Right Field: Pence > Craig
Center Field: Beltran > Victorino (Victorino’s the better defender though)
Left Field: Holliday > Mayberry/Nix

Offensively, yes, it trumps the Phillies when both squads are healthy. Defensively, not necessarily.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Frankly, it doesn’t sound credible.  Not many contracts to move.  Either, Jose Bautista has to be traded or another “tear down” has to be performed.  Both are far fetched.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Beltran cannot play CF.  They are going to waste a good bat at the corner because the CF is still going to be Jay

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

He can still play there. The stress on his knees though will most likely make him a non factor at some point in the season. One of the main reasons he was moved to a corner was simply to keep him healthy.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

They have already said that he’ll see time in CF, so you can put that tired argument to rest.  This is the same team that let Berkman play a full season of RF and Skip Schumaker play 3 seasons at 2B.  Do you really think they’ll hesitate to use Beltran in CF???? 

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

Yep…that is the scenario I believe will most likely play out.

stl_cards16
3 years 7 months ago

Berkman/Beltran/Holliday will very rarely, if ever, be in the outfield together. Berkman will be a first.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

Only scenario would be if Craig’s knee prevents him from being able to play OF and he gets moved to 1B.  Even this wouldn’t be very many games, I’d imagine.

StanleyPujols
3 years 7 months ago

Only scenario would be if Craig’s knee prevents him from being able to play OF and he gets moved to 1B.  Even this wouldn’t be very many games, I’d imagine.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Yeah I completely forgot about that when I posted. I saw that one guy mention it and just ran with it.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Yeah I completely forgot about that when I posted. I saw that one guy mention it and just ran with it.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Pence is not considered a good OFer and Mayberry is a small sample, he could be good or not so good.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t understand why. The guy ops’d over .900 after he got traded to Philadelphia.

I fell into the sabermetric “he’s just average” crowd but after watching him every day for 2 1/2 months, he’s an above average player.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

By any measure Pence is a very good outfielder.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

Hahahah its like clock work , do you save these responses in word then wait for your phone to notify you of any jays threads so you can copy and paste and never reply to anyone’s comments against you? You have a sad life as a Jays troll.

grownice
3 years 7 months ago

Hahahah its like clock work , do you save these responses in word then wait for your phone to notify you of any jays threads so you can copy and paste and never reply to anyone’s comments against you? You have a sad life as a Jays troll.

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

ahhh shut it already!!

Paul_Zuvella
3 years 7 months ago

Sorry dude, but NOT acquiring Prince Fielder is a bad move for the club. If AA thinks that the club is going to be a serious contender in 2013 he needs prime time players. A lineup that contains Escobar, a legit #2 hitter, Bautista, Fielder and Lawrie in the top 5 would make the Jays a serious threat. Yes, there are no quality free agent pitchers out there for the Jays to acquire, but they’ve got loads of talent coming up and could trade some as well. 

Rogers’ stingyness is showing and it isn’t a flattering picture to fans for a team that had the highest team payroll during the years there were perennial champions. Jays fans who were old enough to remember those days know that there’s nothing preventing the Jays from spending at least $120-140m a year on payroll (they’re currently around $60) and contending this year and for years to come.

AA is going a great job restocking the farm team and building a nucleus of core talent, but any good team uses the free agent market to take a team over the top. The Yanks do it, the Rangers are doing it and the Cards did it too. The Rangers and Cards both used free agent acquisitions to put them into contention (Beltre for Rangers/Berkman/Holiday Cards) they didn’t just rely on in house guys or trades. 

Bluejaysnation
3 years 7 months ago

I agree. Theres no point in undoing whats been built up to now. The best course of action is probably seeing it through with what they have and make any additions before the July trade deadline. Unless AA can pull off another magic trick when were not expecting.

FriedCalamari
3 years 7 months ago

He never gave a timeline as to when he sees the Jays contending. He said he wanted sustained success/playoff appearances. Maybe he sees that as a 5+ year building process in-house/trades before the Jays are finally knocking on the door. 

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I am sure agents and other GMs will like your suggestion…Come on AA….show us your cards….let us know exactly how much money you have available to spend and to what extent you will go to acquire the next player.

Paul_Zuvella
3 years 7 months ago

Lol….that’s like not giving a girlfriend a timeline to get married when she clearly expects it. You may be able to keep fans energized and engaged for two years based on this (which we have been), BUT if they have to put up with three more years of “building” a contender, you can forget it! 

The Yanks and REd Sox are vulnerable NOW and you’ve got to be flexible with planning when come 2013 you’re going to have another wild card spot and you have a nucleus of relatively cheap talent in place today. 

I think they’ve missed a golden opportunity this offseason to partially address holes in the roster and illustrate to the fanbase their commitment to winning…with a view to going for it all in 2013.

johnsmith4
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t mind these rumours causing other teams to pay more for their acquisitions.  AA usually jumps in when there are few buyers who can compete with him.

A Tampa fan has commented that each time Tampa is rumoured to get a particular player, AA typically steps in and makes the acquisition.

FriedCalamari
3 years 7 months ago

I know what you mean, I feel they are really close and if they wanted to they could really put some pressure on other teams. But there is still enough question marks around the field that it may be too risky. 

I think AA has a plan and he’s been following through whether or not the fans like it he’s going to do what he’s planned to do. It doesn’t matter for him if the fans feel jilted if in the end of this whole process the Jays become a powerhouse ala Red Sox, Rays, Texas, etc. and they’re winning fans will come back regardless. To bring fans back they just need wins, sustained success is the best goal for that in the long term scheme of things. 

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Last night on the MLB network they were replaying some of Pence’s blunders. They were saying he was average. It’s not just sabermetrically.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

What are you watching!

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Defensively he’s average. Offensively he’ll hit close to or over .300, hit 25 home runs and drive in close to 100.

I thought he’d be a mistake to add to the line up because I didn’t think he was selective (which he really isn’t) but he still put up an obp of .394 with Philadelphia.

I don’t remember them calling him average. I saw the Kevin’s highlights video they showed and I don’t remember Chris Rose or Larry Bowa calling him an average player.