Central Notes: Sizemore, Kendall, Reds, Votto

Here’s a look at some items out of the Central divisions..


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38 Comments on "Central Notes: Sizemore, Kendall, Reds, Votto"


TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

The choice is really Votto or BP. BP is cheaper, but his production obviously isn’t Votto level. Votto is much better (not saying that BP is bad by any means), but costs a lot more. It would be real tough to keep both. Hopefully Castillini finds a way, but I don’t know. The $10M/year they would save without BP on the books would make Votto much easier to pay.

3 years 6 months ago

It has to be Votto. I think Brandon Phillips is a great player but Votto is a cornerstone and still young enough to not regret the last 4 years of a huge extension. Top 10 offensive player in the league and a gold glove caliber defender. Phillips will be easier to replace.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

I agree. It’s just tough to let BP from a common fan standpoint for all the he does. He comes to every RedsFest, flys people to chill with him and come to games, and most importantly has openly expressed his desire to stay with the Reds. I hope they can find a way to keep both, but it’ll be tough if payroll doesn’t go up substantially.

3 years 6 months ago

I don’t know which is moving faster or slower depending on your viewpoint.
Ryan Zimmerman contract extension or Brandon Phillips.
Come to think of it that would be an interesting trade.
Zimmerman for Phillips straight up. Can’t wait to hear the response, but it would be interesting.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

It’s not a match this year, since the Reds are already paying Rolen a good chunk of change to play 3rd. Also, I’m pretty sure Zimmerman is currently (posted before the Zimmerman extension goes through) under contract for 2 years, compared to BP’s 1. It would be interesting, but they just don’t line up, especially since the Reds are trying to make a run and would be left without a 2B if this trade would happen.

Simply, even in a hypothetical world it probably doesn’t happen.

Joe
3 years 6 months ago

But if we had Zimmerman at third and Frazier, Valaika or Valdez at second, instead of Phillips and an oft injured Rolen? I think that would make us pretty good…

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

Yep. I bet the Reds would pull the trigger first, but it won’t happen for various other reasons.

goredsgo
3 years 6 months ago

if i had to choose one of the two id take phillips cause he wants to stick around (unlike votto) and hes arguably the best 2nd baseman in the nl. plus votto would probly want more

nathanalext
3 years 6 months ago

When did Votto indicate that he didn’t want to stay a Red long term?

goredsgo
3 years 6 months ago

hes said that hed prefer to play near toronto

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

I don’t ever recall that. Show me the exact quote if you can, because I don’t think he’s ever said that. That would be kind of un-professional of him to say with him currently being on the Reds, and Votto is the last guy on the team that I would call un-professional.

nathanalext
3 years 6 months ago

Define “Near.” Cincinnati and Toronto are only about 500 miles apart. That really isn’t all that far. You still haven’t backed up your initial statement. He has never indicated that he didn’t want to play for Cincinnati.

timmytwoshoezzz
3 years 6 months ago

When has Votto ever said he didn’t want to stick around?  Answer: He hasn’t

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

He must have gotten his info on wiki.

On a side note, Votto hinted that the understands that it would be semi-difficult to lock him up. He understands that the Reds are a small market team, and paying 1/4 of the payroll to one guy isn’t the smartest thing to do. I’m sure he would like to stay here since he seems to dislike getting all the media attention and always be under the microscope, which is why I think Votto to Toronto isn’t a sure thing. Questions from Cincinnati media is definantly less intimidating/harsh than say New York media. He would definantly get most of the media attention if he played in Toronto.

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

 despite being Canadian and from Toronto himself, the media scrutiny would be far greater in a baseball market.

He’d get a fair share here dont get me wrong, especially in the beginning, but he’d be under the microscope more in a boston, nyy, stlouis, etc

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

I can agree with that. It seems to me that he has been thankful with how easy the Cincinnati media has been on him. They never ask him to tough questions to make him feel uncomfortable, and I hope it continues like that. He likes to go out, do his job, and go home. He didn’t become a commonly known name until he won the MVP. If he had been drafted and a big market like Boston, NY, etc… like you said, then he would have been on ESPN all the time. He’s a real professional, and you hardly see him make the questionable quotes. I think when he decides on whether to stay with the Reds or not, how the media will percieve him will have a decent impact.

AJ
3 years 6 months ago

They can keep both, but they may have to backload one of their contracts.  If the Reds are wanting to be a serious contender year and year out they can not take a cheap way out and pray that another Votto or Phillips comes up in the minors.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

The problem is, all of the recent contracts are backloaded. Eventually, somebody has to go, and unfortunately it may be Votto or BP in order to solve some of the payroll problems.

VadaPinson
3 years 6 months ago

I would take Zimmerman for Phillips right now.  I love BP….. Wish they could keep him and Votto  (The Fans in Cincy need to show up more to help with that…but that TV Contract they have blows)   BUT for Zimmerman …who to me is a clone of Rolen…and younger..I would take him NOW.

ctownboy
3 years 6 months ago

When did Votto say he didn’t want to stay in Cincinnati?  When he signed a contract extension that ONLY bought out his Arbitration years.

The following players signed contract extensions BEFORE they were eligible for Free Agency: Albert Pujols, Evan Longoria, Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitzki, Carlos Gonzalez, Matt Kemp.  On the Reds, Jay Bruce and Johnny Cueto did this. I am not sure but I think that Ryan Howard and Chase Utley did this also.

These players COULD have signed contracts that just bought out their Arb years but didn’t.

Meanwhile, Votto only signed a contract extension that bought out his Arb years (and did so with NO home town discount) and kept his options open as far as Free Agency goes.

So, let’s look at the facts. 
1)  A contract extension with no Free Agent years bought otu.
2)  A contract extension that gave no discount for Arb years.
3)  The Reds loading up on players that only have short term contracts (matching the two year window that Votto is still signed for).

My guess is, after getting lucky and winning the Division in 2010 and then watching as the Front Office and Ownership sat back and did nothing to improve the team for 2011, Votto made it known that either 1) if the Reds wanted to try and keep him long term, they would have to SPEND some money and get BETTER players and if they didn’t, they better trade him or 2) it was obvious that Cincinnati couldn’t afford him and Votto told them to improve the team for the next two years because after that he was gone.

nathanalext
3 years 6 months ago

I’m not really buying. I don’t know where Votto’ll end up after this contract, and everything he’s said thus far, neither does he. All he said when he signed it was that he doesn’t really want to commit to anything long term. It doesn’t mean that he does not want to be in Cincinnati. I think this non-committal attitude from him is driving people crazy, but, he has never said that he doesn’t want to play for the Reds. Until he does, never assume anything.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

It would have been dumb to extend him after a MVP year. I want an extension as much as any Reds fans, but the TV deal and being a small market is really hurting the chances. Just be happy and live in the present while the team is good. Votto is one of the best players and the game, and for now he is on the REDS. You can’t always be building/living for the future. Eventually, you have to make a bold move and go for it, which is what we did. Just enjoy the season and we’ll see what happens. A deep playoff run could definantly help with a Votto extention, by the way.

Houston_Astros
3 years 6 months ago

The Tigers will sign him.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

Then they’ll trade for Pujols (Pujols waives No Trade Clause). Who says you can’t have 4 elite 1st basemen on 1 team?

Houston_Astros
3 years 6 months ago

Psh.  People who aren’t creative, that’s who.  Jim Leyland has already been quoted as saying that he would start a forty-year old Pujols at shortstop.

ctownboy
3 years 6 months ago

 Just the other day Votto said he and/or his agent would be talking to the Front Office and not the reporters about his contract extension.

So far, only Ca$htellini and Jocketty have said anything about signing Votto to an extension.

That, to me, makes it look like something out of high school.  The nerdy guy talks about taking the head cheerleader to prom and his geek friend backs him up.  This continues until prom night comes around and the head cheerleader is seen being escorted to the dance by the starting quarterback of the football team.  Meanwhile, the nerdy guy and his friend are back home playing computer games….

My point is, Ca$htellini is good at talking about things (always trying to spin things for good PR) but not so good at actually getting them accomplished.

When he bought the team, he said he was going to bring championship baseball back to Cincinnati.  After six years of his ownership, there has only been one winning season and oen Post Season appearance.

A few years ago, around the trade deadline, the Reds were well under .500 and were well out of the Play Off hunt yet there Ca$htellini was, on both the TV and radio, giving interviews saying he thought the team was still in this thing.

If Ca$htellini REALLY wanted to do something, he would come out and announce tomorrow that the team payroll for 2013 was going to be $100 million dollars.  Of course, he wont do that because it would mean the team would be losing money.

Say what you will about Marge Schott, but no one could question her love for the Reds and her willingness to spend money on the team.  for her, she would have rather lost money and had a winning team than made money and had a losing team. 

She bought controlling interest of the Reds in December of 1984. From 1982 – 1984, the Reds had losing records each season.  From 1985 – 1990, her first six years of ownership, the Reds had five winning seasons and one losing season.  They also just happened to win a World Series in that time frame.

So, Marge Schott, during her first six years, was willing to lose money but had a team with five winning seasons and one losing season.

Gruff Ca$htellini, wants to turn a profit and thus has five losing seasons and one winning season during his first six years of ownership.

Until Ca$htellini decides that he is willing to raise team payroll significantly and thus lose money on the team every couple of years or so (instead of just increasing team payroll to match expected increases in revenue) then he (and the fans) can expect a losing team.

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

tell me more

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

Did you say Ca$htellini enough? Man, you are one harsh critic. Your report on Mike Brown would take 40 paragraphs I bet. You can’t flip a team overnight. There’s something like 4 players currently on the team that played on the Reds in 2006. They really cleaned house, and prospects are finally up in the majors producing. At least Castillini cares. If it was so easy to wip out $100M in payroll, why don’t you do it? My opinion on Castillini is complete opposite of yours. We both know he’s a rich man, but how about you go throw $20M down the toilet every year if the payroll was $100M? You may think it’s easy to do now, but it wouldn’t be easy if you actually had all that money. At the end of the day, it’s all about the money. It makes the world go round. I hope he does pull out his wallet and retains the current stars and maybe even lets Walt venture into the FA market with a wad of cash. Winning this year could allow for that to happen.

If you want to hate on any owners that don’t care at all about the team in Cincinnati, then Brown is your man. I don’t know if you heard, but they were $60M under the cap this year. MB is the one pulling the profits and being greedy, not Castillini.

ctownboy
3 years 6 months ago

 You don’t know much about Reds’ history or finance do you?

From 1970 to 1979, the Reds were second in ALL of the NL as far as attendance goes.  Number one was the LA Dodgers.  So, even though they played in a small market, a winning ball club brought in three million fans a year. 

Right now, the fans KNOW Ca$htellini is all hat and no cattle.  He talks a good game (for PR purposes) but talk is cheap.

If he wanted to, Ca$htellini could come out tomorrow and say that the team payroll is going to be $100 million dollars (or more) in 2013 and that he would be willing to tear up Votto’s contract and starting in 2013 pay him and average of $24 million dollars the next six years.

THAT would show the fans where Ca$htellini’s priorities were.  It would also show local and national advertisers that he was in it to win it.  Thus more people would be interested in attending games and buying merchandise.  It would also be a reason to charge local advertisers more.

With the Reds TV contract due to expire in 2016, if the Reds were to put together a string of winning seasons and sell GASP out on a regular basis, they could demand a HUGE increase for the next TV contract.  So, even though they might lose money for a few years between now and 2016 (after making a large profit in 2006 and 2007 and a smaller one in 2008) they could recoup those losses with the new contract.

Finally, worrying about losing a few million dollars each year on a pro sports team is crazy.  If an owner keeps the team long enough, inflation will allow them to sell and make a huge profit. 

Look what Marge Schott paid for the team and what she sold it for.

Look at how Frank McCourt mismanaged the Dodgers.  Even with that, look at what he paid for the team and what he is likely to sell it for….

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

I understand that the payroll used to be tops in the league, but times have changed. I wish he would pull out his wallet and spend big too, but there’s really nothing we can do to force Bob to do that. For now, I reccomend just relaxing a little bit. No matter how much people bantar about the payroll, things will only change if Bob makes it change. I wish we had a $200M payroll as much as the next guy, but that isn’t reality.

bigpat
3 years 6 months ago

Grady Sizemore should play catch with Rich Harden while we take bets on who gets injured first. 

johnsilver
3 years 6 months ago

How many Sox fans (me included) were wanting Sizemore in a bad way to play RF and thinking the Tribe got a great deal at 5M?

All of a sudden, that 3m for Ross is looking better and better.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

It all depends on what BP wants. The payroll is around $85M this year. If they play good like the Brewers did last year on their all in year, the attendance can go up and they can get a payroll around $100M like the Brewers did and possibly retain Votto and BP. If attendance is around 3M this year, there is a much better chance of both of them staying in Cincy.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 6 months ago

The problem with trading Votto now is it makes no sense. They just traded for Latos and part of that trade included Alonso. Adding Latos in a weak NL Central significantly boosts the Reds chances. Removing Votto crushes those chances.

The Votto question needs answering… but I think the Reds should gamble everything on this season and then figure it out come next November.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

Agreed, other than the “weak NL Central.” The NLC isn’t the comedy central like it used to be. The Brewers, Reds, and Cards are all very legitiment competitors. The Cards and Brewers both were in the playoffs last year, with the Cards winning the whole thing. It seems to be at least in the middle of the pack when it comes to competition.

I think Division rankings when it comes to competition goes:
1. ALE (NYY, TB, BOS)
2. NLE (PHI, MIA, ATL, maybe WAS)
3. NLC (MIL, CIN, STL)
4. ALW (TX, LAA)
5. NLW (SF, AZ)
6. ALC (DET)

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 6 months ago

I’d take the Angels and Rangers over anyone in NL Central. As for the NL West, Rockies are better than they played last year and the Dodgers are better than people assume.

TophersReds
3 years 6 months ago

I should have clarified better I guess. I meant competition within the division to get to the playoffs is stiff. But yeah, I guess I’d take the Angels/Rangers too in a playoff run.

TophersReds
3 years 5 months ago

Cincinnati is a baseball town, so if times are good I would be willing to bet the fans will show up. It’s not like we’ve had much to root for with the Bungals stinking it up before for 17/20 years. In my opinion, something needs to be done to give teams a better chance of keeping their superstars, but it will never happen. It’s not fair to the fans that the Brewers lost Fielder, the Cards lost Pujols, and maybe the Reds losing Votto.