Rosenthal On Hernandez, Castro, Butler

Trading Felix Hernandez for offense would make sense for the Mariners, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports suggests. Hernandez, who’s under contract through 2014 and can block deals to ten teams, has a 3.52 ERA with 8.7 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 in 94 2/3 innings this year. Here are more of Rosenthal’s notes from around MLB…

  • Few teams are willing to take on high salaries and part with premium prospects, Rosenthal writes. This would limit the Mariners’ potential trade partners were they to consider trading Hernandez.
  • The Mariners asked the Cubs about Starlin Castro and asked the Royals about Billy Butler in recent weeks, Rosenthal reports. They also talked to other clubs about potential trades for hitters, but none of the discussions progressed.
  • Virtually every team contacted the Cubs following a report indicating that Castro was available. However, the Cubs haven’t actually put Castro on the trading block.
  • Butler is also relatively untouchable, Rosenthal writes. The Royals consider him a core piece.

65 Responses to Rosenthal On Hernandez, Castro, Butler Leave a Reply

  1. The Mariners have a few very talented pitchers in the minors they could put in a deal for Castro so it might work out if the Cubs decide to move him. 

    • Yeah, that’s not going to happen.

      • Ptk123 3 years ago

        Agreed, don’t get why people think their PROSPECTS are going to get them Castro. He is a prospect aged proven MLB player.

        • jwsox 3 years ago

          It depends what if the m’s offer the big three pitching prospects. Theo might have to think about it then.

          • Tony Matias 3 years ago

             If anything happens and it’s a big if.. then it certainly won’t be Hultzen, Paxton, Walker or Franklin. The only person plus a prospect or two that I can see the M’s deal would be Felix in this particular scenario.

          • jb226 3 years ago

            Well, then the deal isn’t going to happen.  Felix is an undeniably great pitcher, but his contract situation just isn’t what the Cubs would be looking for in a return even with others on top.  The Cubs would expect at least one of the pitchers you took off the table.

          • Tony Matias 3 years ago

             And that would be perfectly fine with a majority of M’s fans.

          • jb226 3 years ago

            And the majority of Cubs fans.

          • CubsFan5 3 years ago

            I highly doubt the M’s want to clean out all 3 of their top pitching prospects. 

          • raffish 3 years ago

            Theo might think about it?  Cubs fans are crazy.  

        • BillB325 3 years ago

          As much as I love Castro if the M’s offered Hultzen, Walker, and Franklin for Castro it might be hard to say no. If anyone else was offered in that deal on top of it I would say yes.

          • Ptk123 3 years ago

            Yeah that isn’t going to happen though. Plus we have some genius internet Gm’s posting on here that don’t even think Castro is worth 1 of their top SP pospects lol

      • joe dittmore 3 years ago

        mariners will never trade king Felix

    • Jon Moore 3 years ago

       Felix and a prospect for a 22 year old? UHM NO. Felix is one of the best pitchers out there. He would get Castro and a few more prospects. His salary isnt that bad considering hes one of the top 3 pitchers out there.

      • BillB325 3 years ago

        I don’t think Felix could be a part of any deal with Castro, but I disagree with you on Felix’s return value, I think they could get Castro for Felix straight up. No disrespect toward him as a player, I just think that two years of Felix wouldn’t be worth it for the Cubs to give up 5 of Castro.
        The M’s best scenario would be finding an young offense heavy team that has pitching, but is desperate for that ace to put them over the top. The Royals could be in that category with Wil Meyers and others in the farm. The Orioles to and I think Bundy and Manchado straight for Felix would be ideal for the M’s 

        • Odawg8 3 years ago

          Bundy and Machado both for Felix? I’d give one of them and a Schoop type player. At most

          •  Orioles are not a position to win now.  They will not trade for Felix. 

        • raffish 3 years ago

          There is no way the Cubs could get Felix for Castro.  Zero.  That’s like getting a dollar for forty-two cents.

          • Ptk123 3 years ago

            Yeah cause Felix is pitching off the charts right now! He is surely twice as value as a 22 year old making 567,000$. He is the 4th best pitcher in your division right now!

          • raffish 3 years ago

            I fail to see your point(s).

            1.  Salary is not the predominant consideration for many teams in many situations.  Talent is what matters most.  Value is great and all, but in the end it is superior talent that winning teams desire.  Value is nice, but it doesn’t win games.

            2.  Felix is a 26 year old Cy young winner (and runner-up) and under control for 2.5 years.  Castro is a 22 year old borderline SS who can hit .300 with a little bit of power.  He is under control for 3.5 years, I think.

            3.  Three months worth of Felix’s current stats is a small sample size, and it isn’t like he’s pitching poorly.  The fact that a few other pitchers in the division are besting him as of June 24th doesn’t mean they are better pitchers.  I shouldn’t have to tell you this.

            4.  With Castro’s current walk rate, I seriously doubt he ever becomes the player his physical skills suggest.  He has a flawed mental approach to the game and his coaches basically insinuate he’s an idiot.

            Felix is one of the best pitchers in baseball, and barring injury is a first-ballot HOFer.  Castro can hit .300 and he’s cheap.

            These are not equal players, despite the disparity in their salaries.  If they were Felix could be had for many young, cheap players who are putting up decent stats.  You need a better argument.

      • felix is contract would have expireds by the time we would be ready to make a run at the division.. theres a reason why EVERYONE called about castro. 200 hits in his 1st full season. some power. bats over .300 annually and can swipe easily 20-30 bags…im not givin that up over 2 years of felix h. and m’s fans… if you think the ms are gonna low ball us and get him your crazy. theo ask for j. montero and manny bannuelos for garza and he only has 2 years left…your gonna pay deeply for 5…prime years at next to no salary. oh and felix is in no way top 3…verlander, kershaw, sabathia

        • mwagner26 3 years ago

           As a Mariners fan, I do not want Castro, and that is not meant to be disrespectful.  He’s a good player, but I like what we have in Nick Franklin.

      • I didn’t say anything about Felix so I’m not sure where you got that from. Was talking about guys like Walker and Hultzen.

  2. Tony Matias 3 years ago

    And so begins this years rumors about Felix. He’s done such a good job for the M’s, he certainly deserves better than the offense they’ve given him. I’d hate to see him go, but he should be able to play for a contender. The Mariners are probably 3+ years out as it is. 

  3. If there’s any team with enough prospects to pry Castro from the Cubs, it’s the Mariners.

    Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin and a AA pitcher alone is a decent bundle.

    • The_Unnatural 3 years ago

      No way. Castro is an ameliorated Yuniesky. I wouldn’t trade Taijuan for Castro straight across. I think Franklin could be as good as Castro if he stops pretending to be a switch hitter. His OPS is over 500 points greater batting left-handed. I mean, he almost certainly would hit lefties better as a lefty, I should think.

  4. How bout the M’s take Timmy, Gary Brown, and Brandon Belt for Felix, Smoak and Franklin?

  5. does anyone think that if Mous and Hosmer were having a better year, Butler would become available?

    I really feel this is a test of two GMs trying to work something out…..

    Felix is probably 3rd or 4th best pitcher at 60 million over next 3 years.

    Butler is having a great season and has shown steady production over the years, and is owed like 25 million over the next 4 years.

    Where does money start to make the difference over star potential?

    • I doubt it, he is the full time DH, and gives Hosmer the occasional day off in the field. Like you said, he is relatively cheap, wants to stay in KC, and is such a fan favorite that I think there would be a huge backlash. It would clearly have to involve Felix, and I doubt that would happen. Crazier things have happened though.

  6. The Cubs have already stated that they are going to build around Castro and potentially Garza if they don’t manage a trade for him. Castro isn’t going anywhere, whereas Garza is highly expected to be traded. I believe they are going to build around Castro, Garza, Rizzo, and Vitters, among others.

    • RFsnapple 3 years ago

      I mean they COULD build a team around Garza but they wouldn’t be moving up in the standings.

  7. Kate 3 years ago

     Rumors about the Ms trading Felix are almost as silly as rumors about the Cubs trading Starlin Castro.

  8. imachainsaw 3 years ago

    how about trading for Trout or Harper while you’re at it?

    • CubsFan5 3 years ago

      Harper for Felix. Fantasy baseball style 😛 /sarcasm 

  9. dshires4 3 years ago

    I don’t know why so many Mariners fans are against trading Felix. We’re not winning WITH him, and he’s not getting the runs he needs behind him to win. Maybe 2012 is a little early to sell on him, but the earlier we pull the trigger, the sooner we get a deal that nets us a farm system of offensive players to put on the field, who can then start scoring runs behind Hultzen, Walker, and Paxton come 2013, 2014, and beyond.

    Yes, Mariners fans, let’s be realistic. The name on the front of the jersey matters a whole lot more than the name on the back. Let’s finally wrap our heads around the best possible scenario for the long term health of the franchise, and that is that we need to deal Felix Hernandez before his arm blows out, and we’re left with the same offense, minus Felix.

    • Zico 3 years ago

       I wish my fellow Pirates fans had a mindset like this.

    • raffish 3 years ago

      Because one of the best ways to build a championship baseball team is to acquire top-shelf starting pitching.  We can afford him.  He isn’t old.  Build around him.  Buy the bats.

      • dshires4 3 years ago

        We can afford him? His contract is going to run up before we contend. So basically what you’re telling me is that on top of the MASSIVE extensive money we’d be committing to him, we can still have enough payroll flexibility to buy more bats, even though Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Hultzen, and by then Franklin and Walker will be going through arbitration, and receiving raises?

        Nope. Sell Felix for a huge haul of position prospects please, Zduriencik.

        • raffish 3 years ago

          Yes, I am telling you that we can afford a Felix extension + free agent pitcher(s) and bat(s) + arb raises/long-term contracts to Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Hultzen, etc.  We are not a small market team.  We have run budgets up into the $115 million range.  In fact, I think we should sign a good $15 million dollar bat in the next 18 months as well as make a strong push for Zach Greinke.  We could then trade pitching for another bat.

          Felix Hernandez is durable, likeable, and awesome.  Why would you ever trade that guy?  How long do you think it takes to get a guy who can take his place on the roster?  We have one guy with his potential, Taijuan Walker, and at best we are looking at 3-4 years before he could become a TOR superstar like Felix.  No one else in the system has that potential, so we’re banking on one guy to fill the role of #1 starter/playoff dominator probably by 2015-2016 at the earliest, at age 23.  Anyone else acquired in trade is probably the same distance away.

          Do you want this rebuild to take forever, cause it sounds like you do?  We have the pieces in place.  The offense can be respectable by 2014 without trading our best player and we could then possess one of the best rotations in the league.

  10. I agree with the last guy, The M’s have no reason to keep Felix. I am a Royals fan and I wasn’t happy when we traded Greinke but it had to be done. The Royals aren’t trading Butler or any of the other young nucleus on that team. Now Felix for Butler straight up would be something I would be all about as a Royals fan but it just won’t happen.

    • raffish 3 years ago

      We actually have many reasons to keep Felix.  Are you seriously comparing the Royals situation to the Mariners?  Greinke wanted out of town.  You had no semblance of a 25 man roster.  He was getting expensive for a notoriously cheap org.  Of course KC traded him.  Seattle isn’t that far away:  two years from competitive ball.  Felix will be 28 in two years and he wants to stay in Seattle.  We can afford him.

      Great point otherwise.  Except for the Butler for Felix part.

  11. So you wouldn’t trade Castro for Bundy?

    • CubsFan5 3 years ago

      Bundy and who? I’d certainly entertain the idea, but not just straight up for Bundy. Possibly a 3 team trade to move Hardy.

  12.  No way you get Walker, Hultzen and Paxton.  That is a Votto-calibre package not a 4 WAR per year SS-calibre package

    • BillB325 3 years ago

      For 5 years of team control of a good hitting shortstop that’s still getting better and has had success for about two and a half years? You better believe Franklin, Walker and Hultzen would be fair game. By the way Castro is on pace for about a 6 WAR this year and Votto’s highest WAR in his career is 6.7.

      • The_Unnatural 3 years ago

        Making colossal holes in our projected rotation isn’t worth the modest upgrade Castro may provide over Nick Franklin’s prospective production. Should those prospects pan out, they’ll produce far more than 6 WAR. The M’s are in no hurry to trade three stud prospects for an empty-headed hacker with insubstantial power that wouldn’t translate to their home park.

      • raffish 3 years ago

        Castro, as young as he is, has a reputation built on a .300 batting average.  He gets caught stealing too much.  His defense is suspect.  His plate discipline is pathetic.  He makes boneheaded mistakes.

        And I could be wrong, but isn’t this his third year in the league.  Doesn’t he go to arbitration next year?  That would mean 3.5 years of control.

        So this non-shortstop of questionable thinking ability who walks at a 2% clip is supposed to net in return:  Taijuan Walker, a top five prospect in all of baseball with first-rate stuff who’s holding his own in AA at age 19; Danny Hultzen, another top twenty prospect that basically owned AA in his first pro season and has the floor of a really good #3 pitcher; Nick Franklin, a shortstop who profiles similarly to Castro who should be up in the big leagues in about a year?  

        I’d be pissed if we traded either Hultzen or Walker for the guy.  And somebody suggested Felix Hernandez straight up?  What are they smoking in Chicago?

        • mo2119 3 years ago

          Exactly what I was thinking raffish. Most difficult tool to improve on is discipline and Castro has very little of it. I mean his OBP-AVG is less than .15, that’s almost as bad as Olivo’s. He is on pace for 4.65 war not 6 war. I see him developing more power and becoming a better fielder with age, potentially becoming a 5 war player, but if just one of the mariner’s “big three” pan out, they will be worth just as much, if not more, than Castro. Don’t get me wrong, Castro is a fantastic young player, but often his value is inflated because of his fantasy numbers.

  13. Wes Whitenack 3 years ago

    Felix is ours and you can’t have him.

    • Tony Matias 3 years ago

       And before the allstar break last year, M’s fans said the same about Pineda.

      • Wes Whitenack 3 years ago

        Felix is a top 5 pitcher in the AL, Pineda is just a solid #2 and netted us a power hitting catcher of the future. You’d be crazy to think Felix would be going anywhere, just writers making up things to talk about.

      • harmony55 3 years ago

        Not true … noted columnist Dave Cameron of the Seattle blog U.S.S. Mariner received a warm reception last June when he advocated a trade of Michael Pineda.

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      the winning records are ours and you can’t have one

      • Wes Whitenack 3 years ago

        Yeah it’s not like 2009 didn’t happen…
        We are just sick and tired of seeing the larger teams boss us around because “we have to” give him up to be successful. Not like what we get in return won’t flop either. If you want him, it would take at a minimum of 5 or 6 of your best cost controlled players or we just hang up the call. We don’t have to give him away, and he’s repeated said he wants to say in Seattle. So nice try, but Felix is ours and you can’t have him.

        • Odawg8 3 years ago

          Are you serious? Albert Pujols under his old contract wouldnt have gotten 5-6 top prospects in a trade.

    • Ptk123 3 years ago

      Felix is yours and you can’t win with him!

      • The_Unnatural 3 years ago

        In 2009, on a team with just 4 average hitters, Felix went 19-5. In a couple years, when the Cerberus arrives and our young hitters have matured, this team will win games. Right, sabernerds?

  14. MSUcorner 3 years ago

    Z’s plan is to be a contender in 2013 and 2014. Trading away the teams ONLY good pitcher doesn’t make sense. You build around Felix. At a certain Z has made a fair amount of trades, but at a certain point you have to hold on to a guy or two.

    Castro has questions with his plate approach, and his defense won’t keep him at short. He’d be a nice piece, but I would hate to see the M’s over pay. I think the Cubs are better off hanging on to him and building around him.

    Personally, I think Franklin will be just fine at short, and at the plate. I guess we will find out for sure in a few weeks.

  15. Ya a Felix trade ain’t happening Ken Rosenthal does this every year he keeps saying we won’t be able to resign him but we will unless the ownership turns into the Pittsburgh Pirates. Got Ichiro coming off the books plus Bradley which will give us alot of $ to spend.

    If Felix is ever traded which is a very small chance imo it would take a proven hitter like a Cano not some prospect.

  16. Marinersforever71 3 years ago

    Would be not a bad idea on a Semi-Blockbuster deal if the Mariners, Cubs, and Phillies made a three way deal involving Starlin Castro & Alfornso Soriano going to the Phillies, James Paxton or Danny Hultzen & Chone Figgins to the Cubs, and Jim Thome and Hunter Pence to the Mariners as it will help those team teams each for this and next season, esp. the Mariners looking for some hitters to drive in lots of runs each night.

  17. raffish 3 years ago

    no.  not at all.  according to multiple talent evaluators Hultzen is going to be, at worst, a good pitcher.  How good is the question up in the air.  I’m sure some disagree.  You, perhaps? 

    So far the guy is pitching as well as anyone in minor league ball.  also not sarcastic.

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