NL East Notes: Phillies, Rollins, Marlins

The Phillies have a contender's payroll, and therefore Ruben Amaro Jr. is still in win-now mode despite an aging and declining core, writes CSNPhilly.com's Jim Salisbury. However, the Phils may be just one bad half away from Amaro finally conceding to a rebuild, says Salisbury, who recalls a quote from Amaro at the Winter Meetings where Amaro acknowledged the possibility.

  • Salisbury's colleague, Corey Seidman, opines that the Phillies are stuck with Jimmy Rollins, much like they are with Jonathan Papelbon. Though there are a few contenders in need of a shortstop upgrade, but Rollins' $11MM salary plus his 10-and-5 rights make it nearly impossible to move him.
  • The Marlins are willing to trade from their wealth of starting pitchers to acquire a third baseman, president of baseball operations Michael Hill told MLB.com's Joe Frisasro. Said Hill: "This is why you build and try to create depth, to allow you to do what you need to do to win games at the Major League level."
  • Since Mike Rizzo took over as Nationals GM in 2009, he’s seven different trades with A's GM Billy Beane of the Athletics.  Chase Hughes of CSNWashington.com looked back on all of the deals that have gone down between Oakland and Washington.

Zach Links contributed to this post.


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40 Comments on "NL East Notes: Phillies, Rollins, Marlins"


Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

Although it won’t work b/c they are both in the NL East – Asche for.. Turner?

Hey Its Placido Polanco
1 year 8 months ago

Who’s Turner?

phillies1102
1 year 8 months ago

Jacob Turner, and we need Asche to play 3B more than we need a SP.

Daniel1216
1 year 8 months ago

If I’m the phillies I’d go for pitching and trade Asche. Better have younger pitching for the future and wait on Franco then have Asche play on a team going nowhere while blocking him

Hey Its Placido Polanco
1 year 8 months ago

Maybe it is, but the jury is still very much out on whether Franco can actually be a major league 3B or if he’ll have to move across the diamond

phillies1102
1 year 8 months ago

I want Franco to be the future 3B of the phillies, and he has the tools to stay at the position, but he needs more seasoning, at least a 1/2 season.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

Miggy has shown us that anyone can play 3B. Franco is by no means going to become Miggy, but just saying – if he can hit, it’s hard to push Howard off 1B outside of just a platoon. Ideally Chase would have been gone to FA, a draft pick collected, Asche moved to 2B and Franco brought up at some point to man 3B. Hernandez > Galvis at each level, I’d rather see Galvis traded based on his defensive ‘prowess’ (who is a cross between Valdez & Martinez offensively). That being said, RAJ isn’t that crafty, and Utley was resigned. So Asche could be expendable and yea I’d go for young pitching like Jacob Turner. And in then trade Cliff Lee for controllable bats targeting a team that falls out of the Tanaka sweepstakes – posted or not.

Ryan
1 year 8 months ago

That could work but the starting pitching market still has some options after Tanaka granted they aren’t as good as Cliff Lee but teams wouldn’t have to surrender 3-4 prospects for them just a draft pick this year depending on which pitcher they sign.

omavricko
1 year 8 months ago

Miggy has shown that he is very athletic for his size, not that anyone can play 3rd. Let’s not down play the athleticism for hot corner. So Big PAPI can play 3rd cause miggy can

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

If there were no DH Papi would play the field.

raltongo
1 year 8 months ago

am I crazy or does Cliff Lee have a no-trade clause? Everyone seems to think that trading Cliff Lee is such a realistic possibility, but I’m pretty sure he as to approve it…….as does Hamels with his contract

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

It’s not like he’d be traded to the Padres. I’m pretty sure dude wants to win before he retires. Uber-competitor.

Phillyfan425
1 year 8 months ago

You’re only partially. And that’s what Cliff has…a partial no trade clause (21 teams, if I’ve got my facts right). And he gets to pick those teams at the start of each season (so the Phillies know the 8 teams that they are able to trade him too). Anywhere else, and he’d have to agree to it.

Hamels also has a partial no trade clause (it’s varying on what the terms are – some say 21 teams, others don’t give specifics).

Phillyfan425
1 year 8 months ago

I could easily see Franco as being handled along the lines of an Edwin Encarnacion. Playing an average (below average) defensive 3rd base for the first few years of his career, and then moving to 1B after the Howard deal expires. As far as Asche goes, I don’t think he’s got the range/hands to play second. He’s either a 3B or an OF (if they need to make room for Franco but keep Asche in the lineup).

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

As long as he’s not handled like Brown was at the beginning “Hey save this team” then up down up down up down through the system.

Phillyfan425
1 year 8 months ago

I thought Brown’s handling was more of a media/fan problem than an actual problem. The only thing that the organization did with him that I didn’t like was after he first came up (in 2010) and Victorino came back from the DL, I thought they should have sent him back down to AA or AAA instead of sitting him on the bench down the stretch. After that though, his ups and downs were more caused by injuries (from breaking his hamate bone in the spring of 2011 – that takes a good 18 months to come back with full power despite only taking 6 weeks to “heal”; to the half a dozen injuries he suffered in 2012 – from knee to hammy to thumb to neck; even to this past year with the Achilles tendinitis at the end of this year).

raltongo
1 year 8 months ago

I’m sure the Phils will be revisiting the Asche-to-2nd-base option, but the first trial experiment with that did not go so well…They wanted to have some reason to justify the departure of Utley but Asche didn’t have it defensively…its a big big IF and HOPE here, of course, but it would be cool to see Asche and Franco on the same infield together, rather than in competition for the same spot…Really need a power Righty, man

phillies1102
1 year 8 months ago

One of them will emerge in ST, i think it will be Asche. His minor league stats look like the next Chase Utley, and I’m excited to see the transition. With Hernandez, our pitching is now set, regardless of how good it will be. However, Kendrick and Hernandez will both be gone in a year, and Asche and Franco will show us who is legit and who is a bust. Time will tell, so lets give it time.

Daniel1216
1 year 8 months ago

Jacob Turner

Jeff Miller
1 year 8 months ago

Would rather hold onto Asche and see if he can increase his value. Turner was a highly touted prospect and is only 22 with 5 years of control, but winning at CBP comes from offense. Since putting a priority on pitching they’ve regressed as an organization.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

I see Franco as having a higher ceiling. Asche can’t move to 2B with Utley in the fold for 2014- however long he vests. Moving Cliff Lee would be the next move for that offense.

Jeff Miller
1 year 8 months ago

Franco absolutely has the higher ceiling, but Asche shouldn’t be let go yet.

Lee on the other hand should be moved ASAP.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

Asche for Turner isn’t letting go though.

nepp
1 year 8 months ago

Asche also can’t handle 2B defensively…they tried him there a couple years ago and he doesnt have the hands or range for the position. His bat also likely doesnt play at either corner OF spot so his path to being an MLB player is through 3B or not at all.

Gothapotamus
1 year 8 months ago

Play chicken with Jimmy. Bench him so his 2015 option won’t vest at $11M, so he’ll be stuck with the prospect of a $5M player option. Not to mention, becoming a bench player won’t increase his value as he ages. I don’t know if Galvis is even a downgrade at this point as both Jimmy’s offense and defense are on the downswing.

Sorry Jimmy, you want to stick around for the wrong reasons: be the franchise leader in some offensive categories. You could’ve at least fibbed and said you love the town, organization, etc.

David
1 year 8 months ago

I’m pretty sure intentionally benching someone to prevent an option from triggering isn’t allowed. Now, teams do it, but they’re at least somewhat stealthy about it. Not sure how the Phillies could do it with Rollins without it being obvious what they’re doing.

Gothapotamus
1 year 8 months ago

Of course it wouldn’t be “intentional”. The organization is committed to the development of Galvis as an everyday SS.

Would be harder for the MLBPA to argue against that, rather than benching an everyday player with 20 games left who needs 50 PAs for a vesting option to kick in.

vtadave
1 year 8 months ago

Pretty sure that wouldn’t work since Galvis can’t hit.

Catztradamus
1 year 8 months ago

That’s absurd and people need to let go of that concept.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

That’d be fun with the MLBPA. You’d have to bring someone better than Galvis into man SS, and justify it, b/c he really is a pseudo Michael Martinez/Wilson Valdez.

Gothapotamus
1 year 8 months ago

Jimmy’s WAR last year was 0.2 and his OPS+ was 85. That’s pretty good justification.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

.2 rWAR is the outlier. rWAR of 2.4 and 2.5 in 2012 and 2011 (1.6, 4.8, 3.6 fWAR). So if you take out his abysmal 2nd half, he was actually on pace to mirror his production for previous years. He fell off the map in the 2nd half. So make of that what you will. I don’t find him to be worth 11 MM, but 1/2 a season does not make or break a player.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
1 year 8 months ago

The Phils don’t have a better replacement so they can’t exactly bench him for cause. Even if the Phils wanted to deal with the player’s union complaints and on top of it gain a reputation as player more fast and loose with contract garuentees than most other franchises and sow team discord, you might want to take into account if they benched him for a worse player then it’s basically cutting off their nose to spite their face.

KoyieHill
1 year 8 months ago

So in a short span of time Philadelphia went from World Series team to worse than the Marlins and last in the NL East? The Cubs are envious.

Guest
1 year 8 months ago

In 2011, I had to get multiple partial ticket plans so I would be credited as a full season ticket holder for playoff seating; all full season plans were sold out. Now, I can get a full season plan in the second deck / first row on the third base line. That defines how bad things have gotten for the Phils.

Zak A
1 year 8 months ago

I just e-bayed every game I went to usually getting seats 2 for the price of 1 on the LL. Doesn’t help w/post season though haha.

nm344
1 year 8 months ago

Are you posting from the future? The things you say have not happened.

Mike1L
1 year 8 months ago

If the Marlins are willing to trade pitchers for a third baseman, would they be interested in one of the greatest power hitters of all time? He’s only got four years left on his contract, his current team, I’m sure, would throw in a few bucks to make it work, and he’s very telegenic. Comes with his own (subsidized) rooting section.

Ivan
1 year 8 months ago

you funny!

FaithlessValor
1 year 8 months ago

Edit, word missing:

Since Mike Rizzo took over as Nationals GM in 2009, he’s *MADE* seven different trades with A’s GM Billy Beane of the Athletics.