Red Sox Leading For Santana?

Hehehe, did I seriously see Yankee and BoSox fans talking about their minor league systems as though they are sometype of endless gold-mine other teams only wish they could tap? See, I look back over the years and don’t really see much more than fillers with hype coming out of either camp ~ but ok…

And:
“Thanks for delivering the knock-out blow to yourself. That comment proved how much of an idiot you really are. Can you please name the 3 MI prospects on your favorite team that are under the age of 25 and posted a line close to 300/385/500 in AA or AAA? Ok, thats what i thought.”

Hummm… Franklin Gutierrez, Ben Francisco, Shin-Soo Choo, Jonathan Van Every, Trevor Crowe, Jordan Brown ~ and without looking them up I think Ryan Mulhern and Asdroobal Cabrera might have gotten really, really close with Ryan maybe falling a bit short on OBP and AsCab maybe being a tiny bit off the SLG…

Do I win a prize ~ I got between 6 to 8 I think…

Without being a smartass though, yeah ~ it is an impressive line…

The four that qualify are Gutierrez, Francisco, Brown and Cabrera....good research though

darkstar - isn't Gutierrez an OF?

CANO SHOULD BE UNTOUCHABLE ... PERIOD!!!!

The Yanks should see what they got with the kids in the rotation and pursue Sabathia.

Oh, oh, oh ~ Choo was hurt this year a bit! Maybe look at 2006 for his line matching that…

yeah I agree there are many guys with those numbers....I dont know what that other guy meant...I would say for SS's though his #'s are way above average and the Twins need a SS...

Choo .260 .328 .375

So basically, it comes down to who blinks first: do the Sox add Ellsbury or do the Yankees add Hughes? My money is on the Yankees.

If you read Posada's interview, he's willing to drive the rookies out of NY if it means getting Santana.

I think it's because Posada's tired of losing.

He says plainly that the Yankees need an ace.

Without an ace the Yankees are not gonna touch the sox next year.

Ahh, more of the usual from Sox fans. Kennedy, Cabrera and Tabata/Horne is 'nothing', while Crisp, Lester, Lowrie and Bowden is a 'really good deal'. What is wrong with you people?

Guys like Jed Lowrie and Brandon Moss come around every season. They are truly nothing special. I remember well the argument that Brandon Moss would be a solid outfielder for years to come, since then he's been downgraded to a 4th outfielder, maybe. People who are *expecting* Lowrie to be a solid cheap shortstop for 6 years are similarly delusional. He is a cheap throw-in who just had his first decent minor league season. Wilson Betemit has more upside and actual major league success. He would trump Lowrie in an instant should Cashman want to include him. But it doesn't matter, because players like Betemit and Lowrie don't actually matter.

The deals are centered around Cabrera and Crisp, and Kennedy and Melky. They are similar, but Crisp is making $5 million and putting up OPS's of .718 in his peak years, which is pathetic. He is less than valuable to the now extremely cost-conscious Twins unless Epstein decides to front 80% of his remaining salary, at which point he would be better served to just keep him as a defensive replacement, pinch-runner and 4th outfielder. Melky Cabrera bettered Crisp's numbers the past two years, but at the league minimum and at the age of 21 and 22. He is very projectable, and already hits better. Funny how things look when you actually compare the two players, instead of blasting Melky because he didn't put up elite numbers at the age of 22. Wait a minute! Coco Crisp put up even worse numbers at that age! So reference 3 and 4 years ago if you will, but realize that Crisp was as 'worthless' as Cabrera when he was 22. Probably even moreso.

Anyway, Lester has a higher ceiling than Kennedy. He throws harder. But he hasn't put up good numbers in any league since 2005. Meanwhile, Kennedy blazed a trail through the minor leagues, becoming the minor league pitcher of the year in his first full professional season. He has a strong pedigree and put up elite numbers at USC. He doesn't throw as hard, but is already more major-league ready than Lester, who while having major league experience, it's not really something to write home about. Yes, if Lester obtains control, he could be great. But you could say if Kennedy gained a few ticks on his fastball, he could be great. The facts are, Lester is not great. He is not even good. He has never shown any semblance of control, or improvement of control. Could he learn it? Maybe. But why would the Twins want a maybe when they already have someone they would slot in right next to guys like Kevin Slowey and Glen Perkins (even though he has surpassed them already). Why would the Twins want a project?

The Sox are not serious in their trade proposals. Theo has never been great at trading players, and his and Minnesota's lame attempt to get the Yankees to up their bid most likely won't work. It will take the Dodgers, who are not interested in giving up anyone, or the Angels, who have more starting pitching than anyone in years, to get the Yankees to up their offer. Somehow, I don't see it.

Best case for all involved: Johan stays with the Twins for 2008 and maybe contends for a playoff spot, and then sets records in free agency.

"Was he holding Ellsbury's laptop?"

"(By the way, I always enjoy when the guy also at a computer tells statheads to go outside. It makes me smile, but its one of those "thank god I'm not him" pitying kinds of smiles.)"

"I tried to figure out what you were alluding to but I couldn't. Care to fill me in so I can respond?"

That's what nrmaxx was alluding to.

"Theo has never been great at trading players, and his and Minnesota's lame attempt to get the Yankees to up their bid most likely won't work."

That's so true, I can't think of one instance to prove you wrong.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040731garciaparra.html

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/031128schilling.html

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/051124beckett.html

It absolutely blows my mind that Andrew expects us to take his opinion as fact

If the twins were so displeased with the sox offer why have they not jumped on that kennedy package?

You love berating sox prospects and any rsn members who support their prospects, Andrew you do it every time you have an opportunity. I guess you're blinding homerism has rendered you useless when it comes to evaluating rumored trades.

It's ok though..when all is said and done nobody cares what you have to say..just like nobody read that 12 page essay you typed about a team and prospects you simply do not like

"Was he holding Ellsbury's laptop?"

Just read that... but see, thats classic :)

I'd just like to see some hard evidence that proves a few things

Kennedy > lester please prove it
Melky > crisp andrew prove this as well

I'd like some sort of valid reason to explain why the yanks havent included another 2nd/3rd tier prospect if their current offer is only one player away from "trumping" the sox offer

Basically can you prove any of this biased drivel you spout on a continual basis? Or are you simply an idiot?

NRMax,

Nah, I think they would be fine with anyone in the 2-6 years of control range. They can always sign a rather friendly semi-longterm deal to guys like Cano if he was brought in…

I would imagine they are not trading Johan to rebuild ~ but to get better (ala Seattle with the Johnson deal). They have the tools already in place to do so with the ML-Ready pitching depth, its best to take advantage of it as soon as you can... They will probably look to break in the new stadium with atleast some type of run at a playoff spot…

Just seems like many people are comparing the wrong people. Crisp and Cabrera, to the Twins, are the same guy. Both are essentially MLB average CFs to fill a defensive hole left by Hunter. But while Cabrera is an average CF collecting pauper's wages, Crisp is way too expensive to merely serve that purpose.

The real targets for the Twins, all along, have been Ellsbury and Cano. As expected, both started out as being "untouchable". We'll see if they stay that way.

Right or wrong, the Twins value Hughes and Kennedy over Lester and/or Buchholz. That means that if Ellsbury and Cano remain off the table, the Yankees have the upper hand... if they're willing to give up Hughes and Kennedy, along with Cabrera. The Twins would consider that deal long before they would consider an offer of Buchholz, Lester and Crisp (for example). I doubt adding Lowrie really would tip the scales in Boston's favor, as long as Ellsbury is not part of the deal.

People also are giving the money angle way too much weight. The Twins can absorb close to an 80 million dollar payroll in 2008 and more beyond that. If Santana is traded, along with the other players who won't be returning, they'll have 30-40 million of room under their self-imposed "cap". Plenty of room for extensions to Morneau, Cuddyer and, yes, even a Cano when he hits arbitration. What they shouldn't (and likely won't) do is spend money to pay Crisp to play CF when they can get a cheap kid to play the position with similar results.

I think any report of an inevitable deal that includes Crisp is wishful thinking being leaked to the media.

"Right or wrong, the Twins value Hughes and Kennedy over Lester and/or Buchholz. "

I dont know where you came up with that but that just isnt true. First of all you woudl be hard pressed to find someone that woudl say that buccholz is not better if atleast equal to the potential of Hughes, and you couldnt find ANYONE that would say that Kennedy is better. As for Lester he has better stuff than Kennedy, but needs to work on his control.. Overall your assessment is just plain wrong

If this is all they're going to get, keep him and compete this year.

Also, did the Twins really turn down the offer of Kemp/Kershaw? Because that's looking a lot better than what the Sox and Yanks are ponying up.

how about a 3 team deal with the twins getting Cano, Tabata, and Encarnacion from the reds, the yanks get santana, and Kennedy plus a young minor league guy to the reds?

Gotcha, NRMax. Had no idea if that was pro or con (given that a couple people here seem to not think I'm awesome).

Any other Yankees/Sox fans wake up happy to see their team has not yet "won" the bidding for Johan? I did.

The Red Sox and Yankees fans are delusional.

The fact they have the gall to think any of these young prospects who have yet to prove anything of significance in the MLB are untouchable.

We are talking about the best pitcher in baseball people. Almost a modern version of Sandy Koufax. The man is 28 years old, and barring injury a shoe-in hall of famer!

You are telling me These prospects are untouchable?? Unbelievable. Honestly, you are being delusional.

The Twins are not stupid. It will take Ellsbury and Bucholz, or Hughes and Cano for a deal to get done. The Twins will let him walk and take their pair of #1 picks if they don't get AT LEAST that value. They have had success with that route in the past, and will no doubt choose the draft picks over these crappy prospect offers being talked about now.

Yanks fans, are you honestly telling me you think Hughes is untouchable? He is not even close to a sure thing yet...Unreal, and I'm shaking my head.