Roberts-Cubs Deal Off The Table

I think we can finally put this one to rest, at least for a few months.  Andy MacPhail told reporters that "a Brian Roberts deal with the Cubs is off the table," according to Paul Sullivan.  You can argue the semantics - dead, impasse, off the table - but it doesn't look like anything's happening anytime soon.  Sullivan doesn't see it reviving before July.

Since the Orioles couldn't match up with the Cubs, it might make sense for MacPhail to start engaging other teams about Roberts.

Comments

[Devlsh]

Let the avalanche of posts begin again...

[XD23]

I didn't think the 2 teams matched up well. But at least Roberts knows whats going on.

[laxtonto]

Finally,now we can get to another topic....

[CUBSBEARSBULLS2008]

This doesn't bother me that much as a Cubs fan because now we will be in first at the trading deadline and we can see where we need help for the playoffs and the rest of the season and make a trade then probably for a #2/3 starting pitcher or leadoff hitter. The Orioles will regret this, damn I hate McFail.

[CubFanForLife]

The Cubs had a chance to go from 'fringe playoff contender' to 'legit World Series threat' and couldn't pull the trigger. All just so we could hang onto some overrated prospects that won't ever contribute in a meaningful way to our major league team. I'm normally a Hendry supporter, but he really let the big one get away here.

[studio179]

Thankfully, this is put to rest. I know there will be some fans on both sides that will be unhappy with the other team. Make all the insights and reasonings as to the 'why nots', but this is one Cub fan that is ready for the season and quit caring about this rumor mid Feb.

I'll just say it would have been great to have Roberts if the price was right. No disrespect to his game or following in Baltimore. He is a good player. I will argue at what cost, but that is behind me as far as I am concerned. I am sure this rumor will resurface around July even if either side has no interest. Just based on this soap opera of a rumor, it has been draning for fans and the players and the people involved. I have made my feelings for Andy as a GM known. No reason to trot down that road. I'm sure Oriole fans may feel the same way about the Cubs. Good luck to the O's and their fans. The discussions were fun and frustrating. Something good will come from Roberts for you guys sometime in July or later.

I just want this season to start...

[start_wearing_purple]

Orioles wanted a lot to begining with and it sounded like they kept pushing the price up until Hendry walked away.

[DeaconD:CubsFan]

I'm sorry to say but i dont think we can win the world series without Roberts

[uww1]

I wanted Roberts bad...but this really could be good for us. From what I have heard there could be some great players on the trade block in July. I am thinking we could use a top of the line starter or a SS by that time. I will just throw out some names that could possibly be available.
Michael Youmg, Khalil Greene, Orlando Cabrera, Jack Wilson, Jhonny Peralta, Rafeal Furcal What do you think?

[DeaconD:CubsFan]

Michael Young! Great Idea Maaybe You Should be the cubs Gm

[jrfukudome]

History will be kind to this non-deal.

[tmichalski]

The orioles are the ones who will regret not making this trade, not the cubs.

No team in baseball is going to pony up what the cubs were willing to offer for Roberts, period. After an abysmal year by Roberts, they will be lucky to get half of what the cubs were offering next year.

I really don't understand the cubs incessant need for a 2nd basemen, don't they already have four guys on the lineup who can play 2nd base.

As the cubs, i wouldn't be so concerned about their light hitting, especially considering the depth they have in their rotation and bullpen. I think the cubs will win the central and should their top 3 and back end bullpen have a solid year, they should go deep into the playoffs.

Perhaps with more tinkering the reds will be more of a contender for the division, but everything is pointing to cubs repeat division champs.

The cubs and diamondbacks were comparable teams, the diamondbacks were just streaking at the moment, and the cubs on the other hand were fighting to stay alive in the last week. Momentum is what lost the series for the cubs, not a lack of talent.

Don't worry Cubs fans, I think you should see some fine baseball at Wrigley(or whatever they decide to call it) this summer.

[ClassyJack85]

I think Tim was really happy to put this article up because of the thousands of daily questions he would get about this to this topic, congrats Tim, enjoy your ginger ale

I think it takes two to tango, hendry didn't want to give up too much for roberts. and it was macphails greediness that's going to keep the O's from ever becomming a top team, that and the yankees and BoSox

[uww1]

I dream every night about it, I wish I could. If they are in last place like they are expected they might use him for a few young guys.

[start_wearing_purple]

DeaconD, you're really starting to sound like a Red Sox fan pre-Oct 2004. I remember a guy I met screaming the only way for the Sox to win in 04 was to trade for Randy Johnson, sell the farm for him.

Point being, calm down, season has yet to begin for the Cubs.

[bleedcubbie]

im not saying this post is wrong but if you go on the Oriole's website, it says that McPhail doubts that it will happen, not that the deal is off the table.

[Joe]

Why would Texas want to give up Young? Their team is on the way up. They could be competing by 2010 at least. They would want more than what the Oriols wanted for Roberts.

[chicagobubbleblog]

"I really don't understand the cubs incessant need for a 2nd basemen..."

I don't think it was a need for a secondbaseman as much as a desire for a leadoff hitter.

Is it just me or do most teams concern themselves with who's going to play 1st, LF, C etc and then after they get all the positions filled they're left saying, "Who's going to bat 1, 2, 3...?" and then they end up shoe horning people into line up spots that don't suit them.

I think it's more important to consider who's hitting where rather than who's playing where.

[juan]

The cubs were not looking for a 2nd base player they were looking for a leadoff man.

[bleedcubbie]

but if this deal doesnt work out im somewhat concerned. I dont really like Theriot. If we could've gotten Roberts, i would have liked to seen roberts at 2nd and derosa at ss. but u never know Hendry might offer something McPhail would never have thought he would've. Our rotation is decent at best with hill struggling and question marks in Dempster and Marquis (i guess). I feel that our lineup is set at lf, rf, 3rd, 1st, catcher. im starting to really like felix pie and reed johnson combo. they provide the speed. the middle of the infield is still a major concern. Derosa didnt play today because of a foot injury, maybe hendry sees that and adds other players in a possible deal. theriot just can't play. he walks more than he strikeouts, but he rarely provides power and doesnt really steal bases. hes a 5/10 leadoff hitter at best. we really need roberts

[studio179]

More for Young...ya think? Look at what they wanted for Byrd.

[Cub4Life]

I think that the Cubs are going to be pleasantly surprised that they have two leadoff caliber players in their lineup already. Theriot is a VERY intelligent baseball player, with the potential to steal 35+ bags this year.

If Pie can keep doing what he has been so far in ST (even with his twisted nut), then I can see him leading off and Theriot hitting 2nd. That would open up our lineup dramatically.

People keep forgetting that Theriot was pretty much a rookie last year. His numbers were not fantastic, but the kid is only going to get better. Like was mentioned in an earlier post, at mid season the Cubs will most likely be very greatful that they didnt give up too much for Roberts.

I do feel for Roberts in this whole deal though. He clearly wanted to come to Chicago. Too bad it couldnt work out for the right price for both teams.

We move on.

[studio179]

Hill is struggling in spring training. Yeah, I would rather he not, too.

Let's not push the panic button here. The season has yet to start.

[TheBigDMoney]

There is always Cleveland for Roberts...

[bleedcubbie]

y would the rangers want to trade michael young? he's not paid a whole lot and there isn't anybody to really take his spot. but that would be a great pickup if the cubs could trade for him.

[ClassyJack85]

juan, the cubs weren't looking for a leadoff man because back when talks started, we were happy with soriano at leadoff, what we were looking for was not neccesarily an upgrade over D-Ro at second but someone who could play there in the case that lee or Ramierez were hurt or needed a rest. and the fact roberts had better speed and better defence was a plus to him

[bleedcubbie]

speaking of theriot, he just got a rbi off k-rod. maybe he could be that leadoff hitter...

[BroLight]

Tim...

Your first mistake is believing what Paul Sullivan reports. He is lazy and one of the worst sports journalists drawing a pay check.

He grossly over stated what MacPhail actually said, which was "that it didn't look like a deal would get done with the Cubs BEFORE the season starts"!

If the deal was totally "off the table" as Sullivan tried to lead his readers to believe, then the O's wouldn't be wasting their time having the chief scout assigned to "this deal" continuing to watch the Cubs, which he was today!

MacPhail is trying to "get the best" of his protege and is holding out for a "5th" player in the deal.

If this deal doesn't get done, BOTH teams will suffer for it, and that is why it will get done. Another reason is that this rhetoric about getting a better deal in July, is pure BS! No team is going to pay more for 1 1/2 years of Roberts prior to free agency than they would for 2 years, and that obviously includes the Cubs!

[bleedcubbie]

rockraines, i really doubt that anyboyd would try and trade the orioles 4 pretty prospects like the cubs did? if u are an orioles fan, ur team missed out big and it will bite that in the butt later. plus u guys dont even need roberts i gotta say though i really like the outfield with jones, markaksis, and luke scott

[skkrman7482]

The Rangers might trade Young because they have Elvis Andrus who shoudl be ready to go next year or mid next year. The Guy is a phenomenal fielder - which young is not, and apparently has good projected power - strong wrisy swing al a soriano....

Anyway, as of next year the Rangers will be confronted with having ot make room for him. Some suggest moving Young to 2B and Kinsler to DH. But if you are the Rangers and you look between Young and Kinsler, Young seems to hit for high, but empty batting average, whereas Kinsler produces more.

Also, young would be a hotter trade commodity, so trade him early, maxmize his value and sign a real DH who can mash, or even use Salty there.

My point is that young isnt as good as people think he is and therefore the rangers shoudl trade him while the value is high.

Not to say that I want the subs to go after young, I want Theriot at 2B and cedeno at SS. But thats just me.

[ClassyJack85]

cubbie, dont forget about freddy bynum in the outfield either, ha ha ha

skkr, cedeno at short is terrible, he's dumb when it come to fielding, no baseball iq,

and plus, why would you move theriot back to second when, a) D-Ro is there b) fontenot is there if D-Ro isn't, they were teamates at LSU and did win a college WS so i think their chemestry is pretty good. And beyond that who would play SS, when Lou realizes Cedeno sucks as much as he is dumb?

[stellar]

@ BroLight

"Another reason is that this rhetoric about getting a better deal in July, is pure BS! No team is going to pay more for 1 1/2 years of Roberts prior to free agency than they would for 2 years, and that obviously includes the Cubs!"

Sorry, but you're 100% wrong here. Lots of stuff happens during the season, and you never know who's going to get injured. Teams that are on the cusp of the playoffs acquire guys like Roberts at the trade deadline quite often. The Cubs offer wouldn't be that hard to beat. The offer sucked because there was no competition.

[XD23]

Actually the Orioles as a baseball team really need Roberts. We have no replacement at 2B or Lead off.

[ClassyJack85]

which is why the cubs wer willing to send cedeno, but obviously, O's realized he's dumber then a bag of shyt (and as useful as one to boot) which is why the deal didn't get done

[ClassyJack85]

EDIT: i should say one of the reasons the deal didn't get done

[XD23]

I thought the Cubs wanted to deal Cedeno was because he was out of options.

[ClassyJack85]

yeah that too, and now we're stuck with him on the roster insted of murton

[CUBBIES2008]

Teams that could be intrested...
White Sox
Rockies
Nationals
Indians
Twins
A's
Mariners
Giants
Dodgers
Cubs-(Later in season)
Cardinals

But for now R.I.P. Brain Roberts to the Cubs.
( Sometime 3 and a half months ago - March 26,2008)

You will be remembered for causing alot of arguements, possibilities, and one hell of a nusince too all of us readers and the people working on MLBTR. THANKS,YOU WILL ALWAYS BE REMEMBERED.

[ClassyJack85]

its terrible that a guy isn't good enough to stay on the big league roster on a regular basis and is optioned so many times that the rules say you cant keep doing that, and the only way to keep him in the franchise is to keep him on the final roster. "He's not good enough to play here but something happened and he needs to be called up again". He lost his starting SS job for a reason

When a kid like Murton who has allot of potential and can actually HELP THE BALL CLUB, has to be sent down to the minors.

Shame on you, Ronny, shame on you!

[bjsguess]

I need to save this thread for mid-season. Can't wait to see all the posters above who are so happy with DeRosa and Theriot eat their words.

Brian Roberts was worth every penny of the garbage the Cubs were rumored to be sending.

[XD23]

Could always deal Cedeno to Baltimore for a player to be named later.

[Cub4Life]

Here are some pretty interesting numbers about the Cubs new leadoff hitter vs. the one that we almost overpaid for.

Ryan Theriot's 1st 684 AB's vs. Brian Roberts 1st 861 AB's

BA Theriot .276 BR .258
SB's RT 41 BR 44
CS RT 6 BR 11
Runs RT 117 BR 125
RBI RT 61 BR 69

Hmm. You know what BJ, I do plan on keeping this thread until midseason. Why I am not suggesting that Theriot will ever get to the cult type following MVP All-Star numbers of Brian Roberts, I can say that he is trending better so far.

Sorry if I am mumbling, I am still eating my words.

[Cub4Life]

Wow, almost 200 more AB's and only 3 more steals, 8 more runs, and 8 more RBI. Wow.

Wow, I just realized that we already have Brian Roberts on our team. Hey, maybe he can get an All-Star nod this year too?!?

[goathedxxx]

First of all, Thank god! Brian Roberts was just an injury waiting to happen. His back just recently gave him problems and he's been injury prone. He would of been the position players Mark Prior. Maybe now you O's fans will realize how awful MacSNAIL of MacFAIL really is. I love the people saying
"Actually the Orioles as a baseball team really need Roberts. We have no replacement at 2B or Lead off"
For what? Why? To contend? Roberts you know(and especially after this escapade) is gonna leave the O's when he hits the market. And that's if he stays healthy. Look what back problems (that started with cortisone treatments cuz they were "minor")did for Crede.
The Orioles should of taken what they could, and if they got just one good player out of the four, that would of justified the trade.
But again, thank you so,so,so,so much Mr. MacPhail for "pulling this deal off the table"!

[goathedxxx]

* MacSNAIL OR MacFAIL* Don't you just hate the typos on an insult? LOL

[XD23]

Actually you should try it from the AGE standpoint. So last year Theriot was 27 so lets see Roberts at 27.

B.Ave/ OB%
RT: .266/ .326
BR: .314/ .387

SB/ CS:
RT: 28/ 4
BR: 27/ 10

Runs/ RBI:
RT: 80/ 45
BR: 92/ 73

But of course that was 2005 for Roberts. He has an 86% Stolen Base percentage the last 2 years (86 Stolen 14 Caught).

I am the B.Roberts Stat MASTER!

[goathedxxx]

Why do people keep insisting the Cubs need to look for a SS or 2B? The season hasn't even started yet and A) Theriot is having a great spring B.) DeRo hit a MONSTER of a home run yesterday and seems to be back on track. C.) Both of them have excellent OBP's. I thought we were just looking fo a lefty leadoff type, but I honestly think we don't need one. For the very least not now.
Give Theriot a chance. This is going to be his SECOND full year. He keeps improving. And like Ronny Santo said on monday "Mark DeRosa was last years Cub MVP". I agree with that statement. I think we should leave this line-up just the way it is. They are all familar with one another, and everyone has a role. They're not all superstars. I think the team meshes great.
At least let a few weeks go by before saying they can't contend without a broken horse like Roberts

[integr96]

Cubbies08.
Teams that could be intrested...

White Sox - What prospects do the White Sox have that could be a better offer than the Cubs? They traded all their prospects for Nick Swisher and Carlos Gonzalez. Plus the W.S. will be unloading some players in the near future when they realize they cant compete with the Indians and Tigers.

Rockies - This has potential.

Nationals - Why would a team that has a low payroll and needs young, cheap players trade those young, cheap players for a 30 yr. old 2nd baseman?

Indians - Wont happen, the Indians have Asdrubal Cabrera, and Josh Barfield. Look for Barfield to play at AAA this year and take 2nd over next year. Cabrera will shift back to SS which is his natural position. And Perlta will move to 3rd because he has horrible range for a SS.

Twins - This seems like a longshot.

A's - The A's are rebuilding. They are not going to trade good young prospects for a 30 yr. old 2nd baseman.

Mariners - This has potential.

Giants - This team is also rebuilding.

Dodgers - This could happen but the Dodgers havent been willing to deal their prospects before so I have a difficult time thinking they will all of a sudden do it. Especially since Chin Lung Hu can fill in at 2nd if Kent is hurt.

Cubs-(Later in season)

Cardinals - A team that is caught between rebuilding and being in the dumpster. They wont trade away needed young talent for a 30 yr. old 2nd baseman.

[goathedxxx]

Wasn't that the year he was all "ROIDED UP", there statmaster? Do you have that stat?

[Cub4Life]

XD23, I am not sure how much it really matters about age. Players develop at different speeds. Some even use enhancers to get to the next level.

Point being, I am fine with giving Theriot the leadoff spot. I am excited to see him take the next step this year.

It should scare you O's fans to see Roberts having back issues. I sure hope he still gets his 140 or so games this year. If not, I am guessing you guys would have rather had Gallagher in your rotation every day and some other "spare parts" laying around too.

[XD23]

Actually he was 'Roided Up' in 2003. You might wanna check the Mitchell Report again. In 2005 Roberts was fully recovered from his injury.

[XD23]

I think Theriot will be fine if he does not regress. I mean his 1st full season in the majors at age 27 has to be pretty scary. He was not a prospect anymore. But if he can get his On Base% closer to .360 the Cubs might be fine.

[Van]

As a Cub fan, I am glad this trade did not happen. If given the opprtunity, Eric Patterson could fill the role as leadoff man. This guy is not like his brother. He is a real ball player.

[XD23]

You are right. But I really couldn't compare Roberts MLB stats at age 25 vs Theriot and his AA stats. It would not quite be fair.

[Ndano]

Perhaps next time I give everyone the scoop, I won't be accused of being a troll.

I've been telling everyone this for at least a week.

In addition to the other players listed, the Orioles insisted on both Ceda (sp.) and Marmol for Roberts and Payton NOT Sherrill and the Cubs refused.

My friend said the Orioles are now talking to the Dodgers but didn't go into details.

If I get something else I'll let ya'all know.

[uww1]

Your an idiot Ndano and a troll. Get off the post...your bothering me and I am sure everyone else too

[crunchy1]

Since when did Roberts become the magic elixir to end the Cubs curse? Let’s get some perspective here. All the insinuating that the Cubs can’t win without Roberts is a little overboard. No one knows if Roberts will make the difference between a championship season and another disappointment .
What if it turns out that the Cubs need the pitching depth that they kept by not trading for Roberts? What if it turns out later in the season that a key player gets hurt? Does it make sense to trade all your tradeable assets for what amounts to a luxury? What if the Cubs need those same assets to either fill in for an injury or to use in a trade to acquire a need that may arise later? They won’t be much use if they’re playing in Baltimore and all we have to show for it is a luxury upgrade at one position. Trading all your assets for an upgrade is like selling all your insurance policies to buy a better watch. Let’s not get too hasty. In the words of former Baltimore and Cubs pitcher Steve Stone, “Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make.” That may well turn out to be the case for the Cubs. I think they made the prudent, responsible decision here. I think the Orioles miscalculated that the Cubs viewed Roberts as a necessity and were willing to pay a premium. As it turns out, the Cubs didn’t feel that was the case. Anyway, the Orioles are free to search for another team that wants to meet their asking price now. No big deal. Right?

[ClassyJack85]

X your age argument is very ignorant, nobody except the Doctor Emmet Brown has a time machine, and last i checked he's not in the baseball business.

While you're comparing stats based on age why dont you compare steve trachsel when he was 27 to anybody when they are 27

3.03 era in 205.0 IP 3 complete games, 132 strike outs to 62 walks.

just because the player was good when he was 27 doesn't mean he's not garbage now.

I'm not saying Brian roberts is garbage because i think he's got allot of talent.

and just because your an all star doesn't mean you're good, each team has to be represented by somebody. it just means you're the best player on a crappy team. congratulations, you are the smartest kid with downs syndrome

[XD23]

Actually my response was to Cubs4Life's comment about Roberts 1st 800 some ABs vs Theriots. Its dumb to make a comment based on time played since Roberts came to the majors when he was 23. Theriot came when he was 26.

Now if you want to go back and read that before calling it 'Ignorant' then you'd understand that.

And winning 85 games doesn't make the Cubs a monster. It makes them 4 games better then finishing .500. I'd have a hometown team that wasn't in the AL East.

But please make up your mind is Roberts an AllStar or is he crap? The O's had Bedard and Markakis. Not like they don't have AS types.

[basemonkey]

ACCORDING TO THE SUN:

"..The Cubs made a four-player offer of infielder Ronny Cedeno and pitching prospects Sean Gallagher, Donald Veal and Jose Ceda, and it was turned down. The Orioles wanted the package upgraded, possibly including another player or pitcher that they deemed major league ready, according to sources. Chicago never made another offer..."

It sounds like the Cubs were the ones who walked away. The speculating part of the Sun was assuming the better offer was by adding another player completely but it could have easily been to swap out a piece. Some scouts just don't like Veal. He's sort of just another top potential arm boom or bust type all over the Oriole system.

[Ndano]

Very close to true X023

OK WWu1, you get your wish. I only replied this last time at someones request.

I'm tired of the ad hominem attacks, you will not hear from Ndano again !!!!

[ClassyJack85]

O's have no all stars on their team, each team puts their best player on the team, if the all stars we selected by positions the second basemen for the al would be polanco, cano, and maybe pedrioa, if one of those guys can't make it then i'll say roberts but the rest of the O's is garbage

[basemonkey]

To me this deal comes down to a basic question and all the other debate is meaningless:

Do the Cubs want to win now?

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Can they win without Roberts? Sure. They might be perfectly fine. They are a good team with or without Roberts. But if you identify a weakness and want to go to the next level, you have one of 2 options. Get a player somehow who addresses that weakness, OR, go with what you have. Making due with what you've got usually means crossing your fingers, living with decent production, and generally produces mixed results. Sometimes you get a break and catch lightning in a bottle and everything is good. But planning on that lucky break is a tough road to climb. True winners make their opportunities and enjoy lucky breaks as luxuries as they come. Everyone else, to varying degrees, counts on that lucky break to decide the season. If the Cubs deem themselves to be close to winning now, then you have to go for it. Player peak windows are so short that holding onto "Players of the future" oftentimes means passing on present opportunities that may never come again.

[Tim Dierkes]

I don't believe that the Cubs ever made that offer.

[ClassyJack85]

and thats his job to know

[ClassyJack85]

how was your ginger ale?

[Playwright]

Ah well.

[INOK]

commodity:
A physical substance, such as food, grains, metals,(a baseball player) which is interchangeable with another product of the same type, and which
investors buy or sell, usually through futures contracts.

A commodity is only worth what the buyer/buyers are willing
to pay. Since only one buyer (Cubs) at the moment is
interested in this commodity (Brian Roberts), the commodity
is not worth MORE than the buyer is willing to pay.
Simple concept, no room to argue period.

That being said, Cub4life you made a great post pointing out
Roberts and Theriots numbers. That opened my eyes.

bjsguess said: "I need to save this thread for mid-season. Can't wait to see
all the posters above who are so happy with DeRosa and Theriot
eat their words. Brian Roberts was worth every penny of the
garbage the Cubs were rumored to be sending."

If he was worth every penny of the garbage the Cubs were
rumored sending, the deal would be done. It's not, so obviously
Roberts is not worth the garbage the Cubs offered. (your words not mine)

bjsguess, I sometimes wonder what exactly your name stands
for because you really suck! (no pun intended)

Finally "Stat MASTER" XD23, the only reasonable way to
compare stats is using the same sample size. Age, WTF are
you talking about. Grasping at straws comes to mind.

If it were not for mile and base I would tell the O's fans
to take a F@$kin leap. But those two guys are cool so I'll
bite my tongue and wish the O's good luck!

[Aduncaroo]

Ndano, you are welcome to post whatever you want. I am skeptical because its hard to believe, but no matter who believes you or not, you might as well post; you have every bit as much right as anyone else here.

[Aduncaroo]

Tim,

Why can't you reveal your source that said the Cubs never offered Ceda? That would go a long way in determining if Andy is an idiot, because he should have taken that offer if it was made. I know you said you deem the source reliable, but can you clue us in on who it was or why they are reliable?

[basemonkey]

Well, Tim, this is reported on the Baltimore side. Until anyone from either side goes right out there with a more confirmed report then that is what an objective reader should go by.

[Aduncaroo]

Does anyone else realize that Felix Pie is hitting .356 this spring?? If he could hit .300 (I know its ST, but he has hit everywhere he has ever been except 200 abs last year...), we flat out don't need Roberts. He only needs to hit .250 to be very valuable, but if he does a lot better than that, which PECOTA says he will, then we would be MUCH better off waiting till the deadline and seeing if a Burnett type is available. Lets all be honest, that would go a LOT further toward a championship than Roberts would.

[INOK]

I agree Adun, I feel great about this season with the pieces we have including Pie, Marquis, Theriot, and Soto. We have all of our prospects and can make a move later if needed. We are looking PRETTY GOOD and I can't wait till this season starts!!!!!!!

[INOK]

Tim cant give up his source. It would be like Woodward and Bernstein giving up deep throat. (well maybe not that big but CLOSE) Give up source, no more info.

[Bleacher_Buddha]

Base,

Glad to see you back in the mix. Were you on vacation for a while or just decide that you had enough until there was more of a yea/ney on this deal?

However "...Can they win without Roberts? Sure. They might be perfectly fine. They are a good team with or without Roberts. But if you identify a weakness and want to go to the next level, you have one of 2 options. Get a player somehow who addresses that weakness, OR, go with what you have. Making do with what you've got usually means crossing your fingers, living with decent production, and generally produces mixed results. Sometimes you get a break and catch lightning in a bottle and everything is good. But planning on that lucky break is a tough road to climb." The Honorable Basemonkey.

Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle but planning on a lucky break is a tough road to climb is the part that sticks with me.

There are 2 things. First I think that they identified the weakness prior to spring training. They didn't have Roberts so they did the prudent thing. What do we have in house? The answer was Theriot. I think that they saw enough in him to believe that he would do well enough.

Well enough you ask.. Well by that I mean well enough to plan on an un-lucky break. Have guys who are in the system to come up and fill in for any major need.

I concede that the guys we have my not be all stars but they are MUCH better than what we would have had to depend on if we would have given up what were rumored to offer for Roberts. We still have all the parts we need for an emergency trade or we have some guys who can fill in for someone who is on the 15 or 30 day DL without too much of a loss of productivity. Granted Roberts would have been a great piece. But if we lose 3 pitchers what would we have if we needed to get someone to replace Derek Lee or Aramas Ramirez for the rest of the season. We still have some parts to make a major trade now. And possibly with someone who may need Murton as well.

I know you don’t need him but that doesn't make him any less of a quality player/trade chip.

So while we are in the win now mode I honestly believe that the Cubs have enough faith in what they are going to run out there that they can compete.

IMHO we truly need another good starter. An upgrade to either Lilly or Hill. That is what we need to get over the top.

Buddha Quote of the day: “An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea.”

PS the only team who has really caught lightning in a bottle was the '05 White Sox.

[bronx]

bout time this is over. cubs dont need him. NEXT!

[basemonkey]

I think the Cubs are caught in an offset talent cycle. Their major league team is mature with franchise pieces peaking today without enough in the pipe to enact a trade to make that run without depleting the system. The most promising players we talk the most about in trades tend to be in A ball. Everyone else tends to be either a young player of note but untouchable, or, not good enough to make other teams covet them.

Sorry, Cubs fans, but hearing Cubs fans talk about Cedeno, Murton, or Marshall only reminds me of Mets fans who talk up Aaron Heilman. Every one of those guys might be a damn useful player but forgive me if I'd rather judge you on what you do, not by what you say. Just like, when the season starts the Mets will NOT be placing Heilman in their rotation like they say he could do, I don't think we'll see Cedeno, Murton, or Marshall receive garuanteed starting slots either. Unless it's very unusual circumstances, it's very hard for another team to trade their quality starter for one of your teams' non-starter.

[bleedcubbie]

which lineup would look better:
1. Roberts
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Soriano
6. Soto
7. Pie
8. Theriot(DeRosa if he coverts to SS)
9. pitcher

or

1. Theriot
2. Soriano
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Fukudome
6. Soto
7. DeRosa
8. Pie
9. Pitcher

with roberts the lineup is much deeper and works the count better. hes a lefty with adds needed dimension to the lineup and it could bolster the bench with d-ro/theriot, ward, johnson, cedeno, fonty, or whatever. i'm still holding out hope that jim will pull the trigger on the trade. he knows that it would improve the team tremedously but theres a fine line between giving up too many prospects for a 29 year old second baseman with steroid baggage and only 2 years left on his contract. its a risk i would take and i think jim should take it as well. hopefully b-rob will eventually be in cubbie pinstripes contrary to mcphail's thoughts currently.

[INOK]

"The most promising players we talk the most about in trades tend to be in A ball. Everyone else tends to be either a young player of note but untouchable, or, not good enough to make other teams covet them."

base, that is why cub fans have a hard time with Mcphail. He was the one responsible for our pipe line.

Our recent wilkins picks with Hendry at the helm looks to be a much brighter future.

The way McPhail handled this non trade is just deja vous all over again for us cub fans. I hope he does a better job for you guys. Hopefully in a few years when the O's are ready to kick the crap out of the Yankees, he will be able to pull the trigger when a trade is necessary. Talk to crunchy well maybe not crunchy because it wont be pretty, but try adun or studio, they will tell you what we went through for 12 years with McPhail.

Anyway, Roberts is a great player and would have been a good addition to this cubs team. It just seems like a very long bad dream.

Good Luck O's

[TheGrinch]

A couple observations:

1) The Orioles are the worst run organization in Major League Baseball and they have by far the worst GM.

2) MacPhail must have asked for something ridiculous, like Rich Hill, as I think Hendry would have given him the guys that have been mentioned in the news.

3) They say Murton is the "odd man out". I understand that, but do we really have to trade him? Baseball is a business, so send him to AAA until either Johnson bats .150, Pie stinks, or Soriano rips his quad again. They'll be glad that he is available instead of trading him for nothing (like they did with Moore and Cherry).

4) This isn't the end, but it's a pretty weak bench. I don't know about you, but sending Cedeno and company up to pinch hit against Billy Wagner with the game on the line isn't exactly comforting.

5) It says that Piniella is thinking of batting Fukodome first against LEFT HANDERS? Is he out of his mind?

[cr_hartley01]

My energy is spent on this topic. Sure, Roberts would have been a near-perfect fit in the leadoff spot. Apparently, the deal wasn't sweet enough to get the O's to bite. This move, or lack thereof, suggests that the Cubs are willing to assume more of a risk (in a sense) in that less proven players can fill that spot. Look at it this way, what does Roberts REALLY give you. A TRACK RECORD OF CONSISTENT PRODUCTION for STEALS, AVG., AND OBP. He doesn't hit for power or excessively high avg or drive in runs. Today's substitute in the leadoff spot is Theriot. A similar player in most respects but with less average and less of a track record to expect a certain expectation of productivity. As they say, the leadoff man sets the table. It seems that Hendry isn't able to convince MacPhail that his package of players warrants this trade -or- he's gambling his potential future with the Cubs on "The Pool"--Theriot, Johnson, Patterson, etc. in that spot.

One thing that surprises me (I have to get this off my chest) is that Lieber is not in the rotation. He's pitched well and he induces alot of groundballs while pitching quickly to keep the defense on their toes. I love Dempster. Really. But, based on a number of factors, including production this spring, he should be the long man. Maybe I'm wrong but I was surprised.

[AirmanSD]

I love this war of the words... Does it truly matter what we to each other? NO. Get over it, the cubs did not think that Roberts was worth the amount that the O's wanted, and the O's didn't want to lower their asking price.
One thing to note, we shall see during the season who is the better player, and i like to keep in mind which one plays in the much more difficult league with both Boston and NYY.
Being a Padres fan doesn't mean think that the cubs are overrated, but i don't think they farm system is as good as some people seem to think it is. Personally i think the reds have more in their farm system than any other team in the central division.

[EPraider17]

im glad the trade didn't go down. The cubs would've been giving up too much.

[steven]

I am glad the Cubs did not get Roberts. Chone Figgins offers the same skills with more possible options in the everyday lineup. How about this trade instead?

Angels receive: Inge, Marquis (cash), Cedeno

Tigers reveive: Lahey, Pignatiello, Murton

Cubs receive: Figgins

Other prospects might be needed to bolster the deal (Gallagher or Fuld possibly). These talks could happen now given LA's willingness to accept an MLB proven 3rd basemen instead of Aramis Ramirez. They have also been linked to Brandon Inge.

[Devlsh]

I'm impressed by the faith Cubs fans have in Hendry being able to get what they need in-season.

Didn't happen in '04 when the team desperately needed a closer, because Hendry labeled Angel Guzman an untouchable (not to be confused with the lowly caste segment in India).

Didn't happen in '06 when Lee went down, unless you somehow consider Phil Nevin (too little too late) as a worthy substitute (now Nevin might have qualified under the Indian caste segment as an untouchable)

Will it happen in '08?

[Aduncaroo]

Delvsh, are you really using 06? Really? When they lost almost 100 games? And you think a Lee replacement was going to get them to the playoffs? Thats not thinking dude. We now have Vitters because Hendry knew when to fold his cards...but good try though.

[milehigh78]

I've pretty much said everything I have to say on this matter, but after reading all of the posts above, I'm a bit riled up.

INOK- Thanks? (LOL) I think I know what you mean. I feel the same way from the opposing side. I just think there are a s#@* load of idiots out there, period. Cubs fans, O's fans...doesn't matter. I mean, you pointed out a couple INOK; my turn...

Think I'll nominated tmichalski and goathedxxx. It was a tough call, but they nicely represent both the cynicism and sour grapes contingents. If Roberts' back- which has never been a problem before- was even remotely worrisome, they'd have sent him packing for the best offer the Cubs made and thanked God for the opportunity. That kind of alarmist fear-mongering is pathetic, dude. Likewise, tmichalski was just the most moronic sounding of a large contingent of idiots who think they can see the future.

"The Orioles are the ones who will regret not making this trade, not the Cubs. No team in baseball is going to pony up what the Cubs were willing to offer for Roberts, period. After an abysmal year by Roberts, they will be lucky to get half of what the Cubs were offering."

HOW OLD ARE YOU?! Son, it's past your bedtime. Next time try, 'I know you are but what am I,'...I hear it's a classic. So, Roberts is going to have a bad year, huh? Why, because he didn't become a Cub? Do some of you realize how transparent you are?! I'm not even going to argue the case on merit; it's just too sad.

There's so much immature posturing going on from both sides. I think it was Bro Light who put it perfectly when he said that- and I'm paraphrasing here- BOTH sides are worse off if, indeed, this deal is dead. Roberts would have been a perfect fit in the Chicago lineup and crunchy's 'perspective' or not, could have made the difference every bit as much as some hypothetical starting pitcher at the trade deadline...assuming one is available and wants what the Cubs are selling.

Furthermore, any Orioles fan knows how valuable Roberts is, but HAS to see that he has greater value as a trade chip than as a player (for us) at this point. And any Cubs fan who doesn't believe Roberts would do wonders for that offense...well...why do you care enough to get on this thread then? Again, it's just so transparent.

I'm so friggin sick of the games. Whatever. Anyone whose visited these Roberts threads on a regular basis knows that I'm of the opinion that the O's can't afford not to get at least one premiere prospect in this deal- that means Colvin or Ceda, along with Gallagher, Veal, and Cedeno or Patterson. If indeed it's true that McPhail turned down such a deal, I'm not going to sit here and defend the decision. Team allegiance is one thing; stupidity is another. I wish more people on this site understood that.

Anyone here who thinks the Orioles are going to regret not taking the deal we've been hearing is completely ignorant of just how flawed the Baltimore franchise truly is. By all accounts, Cedeno has no business on a MLB team. Gallagher is, at best, a middle of the rotation arm in the future; not the type that will swing a club's fortunes. Since the O's have a bevy of young pitchers with similar-or-better projections, I hardly think they'll be looking back in five years saying: 'if only we had Sean Gallagher.'

Veal is the wild card. By some accounts a future star; by others a lost cause. I'm not going to pretend I know the kid's future and there could come a time when he's dominating in the N.L. Central and the O's say, 'Damn, we coulda had him.' Still...he's a longshot. If that's what you're basing the team's future regret around, you're reaching.

Now, the O's may or may not get a better offer for Roberts (anyone who pretends to know is so full of s$#@, they're not worth arguing with). It's certainly a possibility that they won't. Does that mean that ANYTHING is better than two years of his experienced leadership. I would argue against that. Even if that were the case though, ANYTHING isn't getting us back atop the A.L. BEast.

If there's anything positive about the O's current situation, it's that we can take the kinds of gambles that a contending team- a team like the Cubs- cannot. The real-world consequences just aren't that high.

All that being said, I begrudge Hendry and the Cubs nothing and wish the club and it's GM the best this season. I certainly think it'll be a pivotal one in one way or another. Milwaukee and Cincy seem to be on the rise and some of the Cubs' current stars appear to be in the early stages of decline (though that's debatable). The Theriot numbers are interesting and De Rosa DOES appear to be a solid player. So good luck and maybe we'll be back talking trade later in the year.

[milehigh78]

Sorry for the length, but there was just WAAAAAY too much s$*@ being talked...

...and steven's idea re: Figgins sounded pretty interesting. Don't know if the Angels would go for it, but worth broaching.

[Aduncaroo]

"Milwaukee and Cincy seem to be on the rise and some of the Cubs' current stars appear to be in the early stages of decline (though that's debatable)."

Definitely debatable mile, but you and I don't need to argue that.

Otherwise, I agree. McPhail decision was fine either way unless he didn't take that offer with Ceda included, along with Gallagher and Veal...that one, if it actually happened, he should have pulled the trigger on. However, if that wasn't the case, I can honestly see the O's perspective on taking the chance and holding on to him. It is a chance though, no doubt about that. I think if they get another offer, it won't be as good as that one, but again, we don't even know if it happened.

I also agree that Veal is the Wildcard.

One other thing...

"if only we had Sean Gallagher.'"

That sounds like a very true statement, but Gallgher could be Blanton in two years. IF thats the case, and you are competing in 2010 or 2011, you might very well be saying if only we had Sean Gallagher.'

[INOK]

Mile, I already had my $100 out ready to buy a Cubs jersey with Roberts on the back. I might just use it to by an O's jersey with Roberts. The way Roberts started this spring training out swiping bases like a mad man to prove his worth was impressive. He has nothing to prove to me, I'm a fan and he's got my respect. I agree both teams lost out on this deal! (don't you wish we really knew the details) I think it's an exciting time for both organizations.

[milehigh78]

I guess you could be right about Gallagher, Adun. MUCH stranger things have happened (did you ever think JD Drew would be a postseason hero?!)

INOK- With you, dude. As I've said, throughout this whole thing, I've learned more about the Cubs than any team other than the O's. I'll certainly be rooting for them.

BTW- What happens to the goat if you guys win? Will PETA have to be involved? Whatever, It'll be a HELLUVA party and I can always get down with that. Go Cubs!

[INOK]

What really got me going earlier was this:

TEMPE, Ariz. -- Baltimore president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail told reporters in Ft. Lauderdale Wednesday that a Brian Roberts deal with the Cubs is off the table. I'm just rambling so I'll shut up. LOL

"We worked at it this long and we don't have deal," MacPhail said. "There's other sides characterizing it as an impasse. You make the judgment."

This is McPhails M.O., he plays to the press looking for approval. When he says "other sides" ... what the hell does that mean? There are only two sides and he made sure to get this out first. I would be willing to bet he made the statement to the press before saying anything to Hendry.

[INOK]

LOL mile, goat stew anyone?

[INOK]

We have to keep a thread going throught the season. We'vd had tooooo much fun.

[milehigh78]

Right?!

Have like a Roberts/DeRosa daily duel/head-to-head section. A little counter for 'Games I think Roberts would have made the difference in.' A 'How bad is Steve Traschel' haiku contest...

(stopping while I laugh)

Someone will wind up dead or in jail.

[milehigh78]

OH, and we've GOT to put on a darkstar/crunchy charity boxing match!

I think I peed my pants a little, laughing

[milehigh78]

BTW- do the O's and Cubs play this year?

[sBUCrof7]

June 24-26 in Chicago... right between the 2 series with the White Sox

[Cub4Life]

OK, here is my first effort in the Steve Traschel Haiku Contest:

Did you hear that noise?
That loud vacuum sound again.
Traschel just sucking!

[milehigh78]

OK...that time some poo came out too.

Thanks, Cub4Life

[milehigh78]

How 'bout these:

O's drop another!
Well, what were we expecting?
We signed Steve Traschel.

OR

F*%#%ing Steve Traschel!
Why the hell did we sign him?
First pick in the draft.

[Cub4Life]

He said "poo"!

Good times. Sh*t, I bet we can have some fun with this stuff!

I can do these all night long. Here's one in honor of the trade bait:

B Rob sure is fast!
Wow, did Roberts grow a tail?
Nope, just a syringe!

[Cub4Life]

Nice job Milehigh. Either those were really entertaining or this damn drink is stronger than I expected!

[crunchy1]

How about that? Now I’m a “celebrity” of sorts. Who’da thunk? Anyway, the entire point is being missed. The question isn’t, “Are the Cubs better off with Brian Roberts”. It’s likely that they probably would be better -- to what degree is up for debate – but really can’t be resolved until we see how the season unfolds. The real question is, “Should the Cubs acquire Brian Roberts at ANY cost?”. The answer to that is unequivocally “no”. There comes a point where the Cubs should say no…and that’s exactly what happened. The cost was too high in the Cubs estimation.

A little side note here: According to WGN’s Dave Kaplan, a source inside the negotiations reported that Cub fans should be happy the deal didn’t go through. The source stated that Hendry went “above and beyond fair market value” for Brian Roberts. In other words, the Cubs were willing to overpay—to a point. The source said of McPhail that it seemed that he didn’t really intend or want to trade Roberts. Now THAT is interesting. It brings up some food for thought. If this source is correct, then we can say that McPhail wasn’t negotiating in good faith (and for those of us who have suffered 12 years with him as a GM this comes as no surprise). It also opens up speculation as to WHY he presumably didn’t want to deal Roberts. The delicious answer is that it’s Angelos again. That maybe he was never really ready to let go of his mancrush. The” man behind the curtain” image is one that McPhail and the Orioles are desperately trying to shed…and understandably so, it makes them the butt of jokes and it undermines McPhail’s authority to make deals. But what if it didn’t really go away? What if McPhail is just using his formidable PR skills (his strength as a GM) to make it look like, “Hey, I gave it a shot but there was no deal to be made…”. The truth MAY be that it would have taken an exorbitant offer for McPhail to pry Roberts from Angelos’ arms. An offer, ultimately, that wasn’t in the best interest of the Cubs team.

[DeaconD:CubsFan]

Can You Believe this

Macphail Wanted More for

roberts the the twins got
for johan santana

[INOK]

Crunchy, I totally agree. When I read the press release from McPhail it just set me off. He jumped out in front of reporters and basically said HE pulled the deal off the table. I think that is total BS. I have no inside info or anything but it just doesn't make since. Why would he pull the trade off the table? The cubs were obviously caving. You know Brian Roberts wanted this thing to go through so he didn't demand for it to end, especially the way it did.
How many sides were there with THIS trade talk McPhail? He said "There's other sides characterizing it as an impasse. You make the judgment." People like McPhail choose words carefully and these make no since, at least not to me. The true story is probably McP overstepped his boundry. He probably was the one that released to the press he had total controll to make deals, including Roberts, who else would? Now he gets his chain yanked and has to try to save some dignity.

It looks like McPhail had permission to go outside to play but he wasn't allowed to cross the street where all of his friends were playing.

[INOK]

DeaconD:"CubsFan Can You Believe this Macphail Wanted More for roberts the the twins got for johan santana."
I know thats how it seems but I don't believe it's true. I think McP would have accepted the deal if he had the POWER to do so. Obviously he didn't.

[crunchy1]

INOK, you said that better (and far more humorously!) than I did. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out for the Orioles. I went out yesterday and missed all the posts. What I don’t understand is how fans of other teams are so upset the Cubs didn’t make the deal. I didn’t know they cared! Should we be flattered by the “love” and “concern” they have for the future of our “Cubbies”? If Roberts is a hot commodity that other teams covet --and if what the Cubs have in their farm system is garbage, then I would think that any Oriole fan would be happy that McPhail didn’t make a deal. At this time, I think it’s in both teams best interest that the Orioles look elsewhere for a deal and see if they can get what they perceive to be the right deal for their team. That is if McPhail is allowed to not just play…but actually cross the street next time!

[Aduncaroo]

Mile is gonna be pissed when he hears this...and he will probably tell us that WGN is a Chicago source...

[CUBBIES2008]

I still think this deal is going to get done before the trade deadline. Jus think if DeRosa is still having medical problems, and Theriot is not doing good, also if the Brewers are in 1st place by 9 1/2 games in the beginning I'm pretty sure Hendry will make a deal

[studio179]

I said my peace at the top of this thread and was done with the Roberts saga. But MacPhail...oh gee, I'm shocked and in disbelief. I Did not want to go down Andy's little road. What got me restarted on him was when I heard Stone yesterday. He reminded me of '95 when the Cubs were toast. Andy said they (Cubs) had the money and could have done something, but underestimated the market. It just got me going on Andy yet again. How does anyone see him and Angelos lasting? Andy is a survivor, I'll give him that. Along with his last name that baseball people like Selig get all giddy over. O's fans wanted more. It appears Ceda was not 'untouchable'. While both sides will try to claim they gave it their best shot. Hendry has been known to be a 'straight shooter'. He even has said when he was wrong in the past. Like in 2006 when he said he had a bad year in 2005 as a GM. Which he did. Remember sending DuBois out in LF opening day? Anyone could see he was not a MLB starter. I'm blaming Andy for tying up Jim's hands on that one, too. Even if he didn't, just because he has so many other times. That's why you see a difference in the short time since Andy is gone. This is only Jim's second offseason or 1 1/2 yrs as THE REAL GM. I hope he gets a new 2 yr. deal to see what he can do. If the new owners keep him around, too. As for Andy, he likes to hear himself speak and has a huge ego. Also has his nose up in the clouds from what I am told by those who worked around him in Chicago. Him and Lynch made a good pair for each other.

I posted this back when the 'impasse' thread was up. Those who are upset the Cubs did not make this deal make me wonder. It's mostly non Cub fans or Cub bashers. Why? Because they give you reasons on why the Cubs have to do this and will be the same ones posted that we overpayed. They just want Hendry to drain the farm on this one. Didn't Andy say several teams were in on Roberts? Where are they? Let them pony up and see if their is a match. That is, if Angelos is serious about letting his little birdie fly. Maybe this gut is crazy enough to hold on to Roberts for picks. That would be a shame for O's fans, Roberts and the organization.

Sorry crunchy, I repeated almost ev