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« Bernazard Next In Line For Mets GM Job? | Main | Odds and Ends: Kouzmanoff, Ricciardi, Wilson »
Indians Shifting Into Sell Mode
The Indians are currently in fourth place in the AL Central, 8.5 games out. Baseball Prospectus' projections suggest their playoff chances are less than 3%. Many key players are injured. That's enough for Terry Pluto - he says we should stick a fork in the Tribe.
- Pluto says the Indians have been listening on C.C. Sabathia, "but nothing has been serious." The Indians are known to be scouting eight organizations as potential destinations for Sabathia, though about 20 have expressed interest. Jayson Stark says the Indians will not be offering a negotiation window to sign Sabathia. Paul Hoynes talked to a scout who believes the Indians could get two near MLB-ready players for him.
- Pluto reminds us not to forget about impending free agents Paul Byrd, Casey Blake, and Joe Borowski. All could draw trade interest.
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Who the hell would want Joe Borowski?
Posted by: SBE | June 20, 2008 at 11:39 AM
2 things:
1) Try to remember that there is a difference between sell-mode for the Indians and sell-mode for everyone else. Byrd is a strong possibility to be traded, maybe CC will go if we are lucky ~ otherwise, they might possibly keep guys like Blake (they are obsessed with him) and JoBo because they wont want to go through the destructive learning period (you know, the one where guys who aren’t ready for a job are forced into said job and end up like 2 years behind schedule ~ happened when we dealt Wickman…)
Sell-mode for the Tribe though could very well be Byrd + Guiterrez + Prospect for Corey Hart. (just a quick example; I’m in no way suggesting this specific trade will take place)
2) wanted to make sure that everyone knows they probably shouldnt bother reading that (or any other) Hoynes article. Think of him as kind of like "guru" being a reporter for the Angels or A's...
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Darkstar,
You say every CC Sabathia to the Cubs rumor is crazy, and then you go and say that Byrd, Guiterrez, and a prospect would get Corey Hart. The Brewers would hurt their team this year by losing Hart and in the future when Byrd walks. Guiterrez is nothing and that prospect has to be pretty darn good for them to accept that trade.
Posted by: Joe | June 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM
If Blake and/or Dellucci gets traded, this will be the most successful Indians season in 60 years.
Posted by: Krambo42 | June 20, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Joe, apparently you cant read very well at all…
“If Blake and/or Dellucci gets traded, this will be the most successful Indians season in 60 years.”
…hahaha…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 12:47 PM
I agree with Joe. Brewers have a good young team and giving away Hart would hurt them a lot.
Also, ESPN 1000 Krugo and Harry both said Cubs have the players to get this done. They talked about Rich Hill, Micah Hoffpauir, Sean Marshall, Eric Patterson, Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin, Josh Vitters, and Tyler Colvin.
Posted by: CUBBIES2008 | June 20, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Holy mother of...
How are you people so damn dumb? Dark specifically said:
'just a quick example; I’m in no way suggesting this specific trade will take place'
What don't you understand?! He's not saying Corey Hart would be traded or even that the deal he proposed would be enough. He was making a point and used a very quick example. I can't believe anyone would be so dumb as to then jump up and start hollering about how that trade wouldn't go down and doesn't make sense for the Brewers. It doesn't have to! He wasn't saying it would! Idiots!
As to the original post... CC's the only piece of any value that I think the Indians would be willing to deal. Borowski, Byrd, Blake...? Would anyone want any of those guys? Seems a long shot. With the Schilling news, I'm now convinced CC will be in the AL East by the deadline. Not sure if the Sox or Yankees will win out, but if Boston makes a move, New York will HAVE to counter, I think. I'd look at:
Boston- Lester OR Masterson, Lowrie, and perhaps Moss (or Chris Carter, or...) for Sabathia
or
New York- Hughes OR Cano, Tabata, and maybe Horne (or McAllistair or Marquez or...) for CC.
Posted by: milehigh78 | June 20, 2008 at 01:30 PM
The Cubs fans get worse every day. I mean seriously, dark specifically says he's not suggesting the trade and its just a quick example and we have multiple people whining.
I mean, he says it in the same sentence as the idea. What is wrong with you people.
It's just amusing that two complete posts of ignorance were again by cubs fans.
Posted by: the lowercase zach is better | June 20, 2008 at 01:35 PM
Cubbies2008-
ESPN1000? Isn't that a local station? Just saying.
Just an addendum to my last comment: I know both deals include a lot of value, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, when all is said and done, the specific circumstances surrounding the teams involved and, indeed, this season in general, will drive up the 'cost' in Cleveland's favor. Mind you, I'm not an Indians fan, I just believe that this is a legitimate possibility.
Posted by: milehigh78 | June 20, 2008 at 01:36 PM
milehigh, the Yankees already said they wouldn't part with Cano or Hughes for Sabathia.
Posted by: Joe | June 20, 2008 at 01:37 PM
"Who the hell would want Joe Borowski?"
I could see some interest in Borowski. He may make it interesting but he did lead the AL in saves didn't he? And how many closers get replaced year in year out. JoBo's been a closer for awhile. Plus it's not like he has to go in and be the closer, he could be a setup man or just a guy to help the pen.
Why not Florida? Only 2 games out and could help the bullpen.
The Mets? Their bullpen has been a joke the entire year.
Texas?
St Louis?
Milwaukee?
Maybe even the Dodgers along with CC.
There are plenty of possibilities. He's an experienced bullpen arm. I thought every team needed bullpen help...
Posted by: the lowercase zach is better | June 20, 2008 at 01:45 PM
"milehigh, the Yankees already said they wouldn't part with Cano or Hughes for Sabathia."
True, but who believes that?
Cashman also didn't pull out the deal with Sabathia, and little Stein wasn't too happy about missing out was he?
Face it Yankees, this is your best shot at keeping CC. Sabathia already said the money was fine the Tribe offered, just not the years. Sabathia will either stay in Cleveland, or move home to Cali and play in the NL where he can hit. He loves hitting and looks forward to the interleague games.
Posted by: the lowercase zach is better | June 20, 2008 at 01:49 PM
“With the Schilling news, I'm now convinced CC will be in the AL East by the deadline.”
…Don’t completely disagree it being a strong possibility, but feel that the Dodgers probably cant be excluded as one of the most likely. Their positions/players match up perfectly, and said players have other prospects hot on their tail. The Dodgers could create a package that they might not ever feel the effects of while dramatically improving the area which is most likely to win them games down the stretch. The offense in LA will almost certainly turn around; but even if it didn’t, you don’t need to score much when your pitchers don’t give any runs away… Plus, they meet what he keeps saying he wants (near home-town, gets to hit) ~ their odds of resigning him are the best; and no one really knows what to expect from Penny…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 02:05 PM
As was just said, JoBo will have value-- someone is always looking for "veteran help" in the bullpen, and JoBo will be relatively cheap and available.
My guess is that, after CC, Blake will be the most valuable commodity. A team (like.. say the Mets) has a corner guy go on the DL, needs some bench depth, Blake is a perfect fit. Their bench sucks (i believe BP's Sheehan has called it all dead-weight that must be jettisoned).
And on CC-- i don't want to rehash the huge Cubs farm system thread, but the cubs upper level prospects don't match what Cleveland needs. Shapiro needs someone at 3b and some corner OF power. That's why the Dodgers keep getting mentioned, they have that in spades.
Look, I know everyone says why give up X, Y, and Z for a 3 month rental of CC, but it only takes 1 GM (sucker) to make a market. Someone will pay. Someone always pays. You think you're close, the media and fan pressure rises, ownership gets excited, and boom, some GM will toss in all his chips and go for it. It only takes on, and there's always one, each and every summer.
Its why this site is in business.
Posted by: max power | June 20, 2008 at 02:09 PM
When was the last FA to actually hit the open market?
Carlos Lee
Most either resign or are traded to a team that takes full advantage of exclusive negotiation period and strikes a deal.
The R Sox and Yankees will be disappointed if they think CC will ever hit the open market.
Posted by: BeanoCook | June 20, 2008 at 02:20 PM
C.C. and Borowski to the Dodgers for kershaw and juan pierre and a Draft Pick. That is a deal that would get it done.
Posted by: manny being manny | June 20, 2008 at 02:56 PM
How about Justin Masterson and Jed lowrie for C.C. Red Sox Win another World Series!!!!!!
Posted by: manny being manny | June 20, 2008 at 02:57 PM
"How about Justin Masterson and Jed lowrie for C.C. Red Sox Win another World Series!!!!!!"
Yes they will, with Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.
Beckett, Dice-BB, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, Masterson, Colon. There is absolutely no need to deal two stud prospects for C.C. Sabathia.
SSS Alert:
Opponents are batting just .176 against Justin Masterson in his 6-start career. That's the lowest opp. average allowed (min. 6 games started) in the major leagues since the stat has been tracked (at least 1950).
"and a Draft Pick."
Stop saying that.
Posted by: ArodSucksAtLife | June 20, 2008 at 03:26 PM
CC- definately has the most value. I've stated in plenty of comments and I'm not going to rehash everything I've said, but LAD and LAA have the best shot at acquiring this guy. They have young pitching and 3B/OF prospects. And hell, the Indians may need middle infield help in the end as well.
Byrd- probably the second most valuable guy to trade. maybe not in the bounty the Tribe would get in return, but because everyone needs pitching and he only has 1/2 year left on his deal. I could see 15 teams interested in him.
Blake- next on the list. he plays RF/LF/3B/1B. He can help any number of teams. From Boston to both New Yorks to both LA's and anywhere else really. He also only has 1/2 year left on his deal. Very valuable utility guy- just don't expect the world.
Borowski- definately has value. not every team that would be looking to deal him wants to make him a closer. he'd be a very good setup man. here is the problem, Cleveland probably won't deal him because of what was said earlier about the opening in the role for the Tribe. Maybe Kobayashi fills in but I think they'd rather go out and find themselves a closer without that happening.
Carrol- jamey is a great utility guy and could help any number of teams, especially NL teams that need middle infield depth. But will Cleveland deal him with Barfield's injury and Cabrera's demotion? Maybe a post-waivers type deal in August?
There are any number of deals that would and could be made. For every 1000 rumors there are 2 or so truths. I guess we'll just see...but they should be in sell-mode right now. it's just not pretty!
Posted by: czechy1000 | June 20, 2008 at 03:40 PM
"Also, ESPN 1000 Krugo and Harry both said Cubs have the players to get this done."
These two idiots are your typical, meatball, hicago radio loudmouths who know as much about baseball as my 5 year old nephew. The fact that their mentioning Colvin, he of the .230 BA and .300 obp, shows how little they know.
Posted by: forlife61 | June 20, 2008 at 04:56 PM
BREAKING NEWS:
Dodgers start Andy LaRoche tonight against the Indians. Considering he only has 6 ABs on the season, it seems to me more like an audition for CC.
"C.C. and Borowski to the Dodgers for kershaw and juan pierre and a Draft Pick."
It's not bad, the only thing I would say is that while Pierre is what the Indians need in my opinion with a lead off man, I don't think the Tribe wants to pay his salary.
I still think they would want Kemp and LaRoche for CC. Maybe they would throw in Gutierrez too, but something like that.
And if CC went to the Dodgers, I think he would probably re-sign with them.
Posted by: the lowercase zach is better | June 20, 2008 at 09:49 PM
“Dodgers start Andy LaRoche tonight against the Indians. Considering he only has 6 ABs on the season, it seems to me more like an audition for CC.”
Although I would love it to be the case ~ he starts vs Lefties…
PS, Cleveland would never take Pierre and need power on the corner spots. I’m almost positive that guy was trolling though; it really cant be a serious offer…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 10:40 PM
"PS, Cleveland would never take Pierre and need power on the corner spots"
Agreed. I just dont see a fit for either team with regards to the Dodgers and Indians.
On another note darky, here are Rich Hill's numbers tonight; 2/3 of an inning 3H's 4BB's and 6ER's. But never fear, some will still say he is the centerpiece for a CC deal.LMAO.
Posted by: forlife61 | June 20, 2008 at 10:58 PM
"Holy mother of...
How are you people so damn dumb? Dark specifically said:
'just a quick example; I’m in no way suggesting this specific trade will take place'
What don't you understand?! He's not saying Corey Hart would be traded or even that the deal he proposed would be enough. He was making a point and used a very quick example."
What I don't understand is
what point is conveyed by outlining a trade that everyone, including the originator, feels has no chance of occurring.
You say he was making a point. Perhaps you can explain to us what that was.
Posted by: davearm | June 20, 2008 at 11:09 PM
“You say he was making a point. Perhaps you can explain to us what that was.”
…Cleveland in sell-mode very well could look more like they are buyers ~ sending parts another team can use for a playoff push, coupled with prospects, for young fairly-proven guys with longerterm control that the other team has depth in.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 11:34 PM
"On another note darky, here are Rich Hill's numbers tonight; 2/3 of an inning 3H's 4BB's and 6ER's. But never fear, some will still say he is the centerpiece for a CC deal.LMAO."
You have got to be kidding me... At this rate the guy might be out of baseball by the time CC is traded. This is like Willis bad ~ but against hitters with half the talent. I mean, that line would put him at this for his AAA time:
6.58 ERA and a 1.92 WHIP, 28 BB and 22 H in only 26 IP over 7 starts (3.7 per GS)
…damn…
As far as the Cubs trading him, I think its pretty much impossible at this time. It would be selling way to low to make it worth it ~ better to hold onto him and hope you can fix whatever the issue is.
…Still take him incase of course, but yuck…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 20, 2008 at 11:35 PM
I may actually have to take my statements about Hill back...
Ability is obviously there...but get that guy to a sports therapist or something...Geez...
Posted by: Aduncaroo | June 21, 2008 at 01:20 AM