Phils, Cards Battle For Holliday

As a Phillies fan, no Vic, no Carrasco, no Marson for one year of Holliday

Which, from Rockies perspective, means no deal. At least until the trade deadline, maybe

if im a Phillies fan im not sure id want to give up that pachage without a window for an extension. With Boras as Hollidays agent, I doubt that will happen.

How sick would Pujols and Holliday look as a 3-4.. WOW

As a cards fan, I can not tell you how much I dislike this deal

As good as Ludwick was last season the Cards should not hesitate to trade him for Holliday. Him and Pujols would make a great middle of the order. Then they could bring in Renteria to play short or Hudson at 2nd to help the weak middle infield. I think Wainwright is a stud and will become an ace. If Carpenter can recover from surgery and give them some innings I think this team can contend next year. Also they should look at Juan Cruz as a possibible signing to help them in the closer spot.

I'd hesitate to trade Jess Todd more than I'd hesitate to trade Ludwick. Who else do the Cardinals have in terms of big pitching prospects (not including Jaime Garcia who's out with TJ surgery and Chris Perez, who should be handed the closer's job for 2009).

And, if Luddy is in the package, it should be Luddy for Holliday straight up.

"Carrasco can be dealt, but I'd rather dish away Kendrick then Happ."

Happ is worth more than Kendrick. A lot of Kendrick's first half "success" this year was indeed smoke and mirrors.

for one, pujols-holliday-ankiel-glaus.. is not better than rollins-utley-holliday-howard.. so you wont have the best in the NL. sorries.

and for 'melonis rex'

I realize that Kendrick isn't good, hence why I would like to deal him. Happ actually has "stuff", while Kendrick does not.

Victorino in a Holliday deal makes zero sense for the Phillies.

Who plays center field? Are the Phillies going to call up the Giants and get Rowand back?(they'd be happy to oblige). Are they going to go out and sign Mark Kotsay to play CF?

You are getting above average offense from the CF position. And, Victorino plays above average defense in CF. Why downgrade at CF so you can upgrade at LF? Finding a decent hitting LF is easier than finding a decent hitting CF.

And, the Rockies will definitely ask for more, because Victorino's offense isn't that good from a corner OF spot, which is where he will be playing in Colorado.

"And, the Rockies will definitely ask for more, because Victorino's offense isn't that good from a corner OF spot, which is where he will be playing in Colorado."

I doubt he would play a corner in Colorado. He would play center with Ryan Spilborghs would playing left and Brad Hawpe playing right.

If the Phillies offer anything like that, the Rockies would be wise to jump on it. I'm not so sure about Ludwick. He has little chance of repeating his performance from last year.

I think Holliday may help the Cardinals. Ludwick had a career year, so there's no way to tell if he'll top that off, but playing in Colorado, he could hit a lot of dingers. I'm not sure how Holliday would hit in St. Louis.

mkorpal-

When Dexter Fowler is ready, wouldn't Vic move to LF (or, preferably, move Hawpe to LF and Vic to RF)?

I would probably take Victorino over Luddy though if I were the Rox, since I'm not really confident of his repeating his 2008 performance.

If anything, the Cardinals need to be shopping that extra OF for pitching. The rotation is abysmal. This trade seems to be just moving laterally and spending more money to me for the Redbirds. Why not dangle Ludwick or Ankiel for a top half of the rotation starter?

"David DeJesus might be available from Kansas City. Trading Victorino isn't the end of the world. DeJesus is still young and is very cheap. I'd think a Jason Donald and an Edgar Garcia type would do it."

Except, trading Victorino + prospects for Holliday, then turning around and trading more prospects for DeJesus seems just inefficient.

It might cost a bit more to get DDJ, due to his contract status.

"VICTORINO will not be part of the deal the phillies have came out and said he wont be traded period."

Where has this been stated? Link?

victorino better not be involved in any deal...that is ridiculous. unless that is they want to send him to boston for jacoby....

;p

"I'm not sure why the Rockies need a OF in return."

Agreed, to an extent. The Rox should go for pitching first, but if a deal can't get done, center it around an outfielder with probably a pitcher in the deal as well.

An ideal Holliday deal from the Phillies would have one or both of Carrasco or Happ in it, along with other piece(s).

Burrell ain't taking a 2 year offer.

And, the Phillies aren't getting Holliday for Werth, Happ, and Donald b/c Werth is a 1 year rental, Tulo is locked up long term, and Happ isn't that awesome of a pitching prospect/pitcher.

And I pretty much agree with what melonis said above me from the Rockies' perspective. That's why I see a Holliday deal as a pipe dream

I expect the Phils to check on on Magglio, Dye, Ludwick though. Maybe there's a better match at a lesser prospect cost

Don't trade Victorino Ruben for a 1 year rental...I want the Phils to pull off the Holliday trade but do not include Victorino...Make an offer of J.A. Happ,Kyle Kendrick,Greg Golson,and throw in some other prospect and the Rockies will eventually take it because their not getting alot for a guy who's a 1 year rentral...Look at what the Braves got in return for Teixiera and what the Mets gave up for Johan (even though they've signed him long term).

Honestly, if the Phils can get away with trading Werth instead of Victorino then that would be great. But I am against this deal. Why trade for Holliday now when you know that you can resign him? I don't think the Phillies payroll has enough in 2010 for Howard at $15-$19mil and Holliday at close to the same price. But in 2010 we get rid of Jenkins, Feliz, and Eaton's salaries. Maybe that works in our favor? But back to Holliday. If the Phils can get away with Werth, Carassco, and Kendrick without trading Marson or Donalds, I would be happy.

Phils won't trade Victorino and Werth for Holliday (both Werth and Victorino are starters in our OF) and Fuentes (our bullpen is pretty decent with Lidge, Romero, and we'll soon wrap things up with Madson after his arbitration)It doesn't seem likely to me. This same trade seemed exciting in July, but we didn't pull the trigger and I don't see why we would now that we've proven we can win a WS.

Oops, forgot the link...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8770300/Value-of-Holliday,-Atkins-questioned