Rosenthal On Jeter, Jenkins, Keppinger

of course the talk for the red sox acquiring a catcher are failing, everyone wants more then they should for a catching prospect

Pitching Prospect > Catching Prospect

the sox will get someone soon, but it will be who finally gets a grip on reality first

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Yankees go after Keppinger. He'd be fairly cheap and surely an upgrade over Ransom & company. A decent stop gag till A-rod comes back and a solid utility infielder the rest of the way.

04Forever is completely delusional, as usual.

At this point in time, catching prospects are much more valuable than pitching prospects. It's simply supply and demand. There are a ton of elite-caliber pitching prospects out there, but only a handful of catching prospects. Also, there are a ton of elite pitchers out there, but only a handful of elite catchers. I don't see how anyone could possibly think a pitching prospect was more valuable than a catching prospect. Completely absurd.

Also, you have to factor in leverage. The Sox have absolutely, positively, none of it. They need a catcher. They have no one, but no one, in the pipeline to take over at the major league level. No, George Kotteras is not the answer. Texas and Arizona are sitting pretty. Arizona especially doesn't need to trade Montero, they're perfectly happy platooning him and Snyder. They have absolutely no reason to lower their demands. Texas has Saltalamacchia, Teagarden, and Ramirez. They have little reason to come down on their demands either, as the Sox are not the only team who needs or wants a catcher. Sorry, Michael Bowden (aka Jeff Suppan) is not enough to get an elite catching prospect. Plus, Texas is in love with Clay Buchholz. They simply won't take anything less, and really don't have any reason to.

Sorry, Sox fans. The oft-mentioned elite level catchers are not simply there for the taking. It will take some major sacrifice, as it should.

Also, Daniel Bard is strictly a relief prospect who has only limited experience in AA. He isn't worth much at all on the trade market.

"A decent stop gag till A-rod comes back"

Freud would have a field day with this typo.

Andrew,

You're whole post is based on the idea that those catchers are "elite prospects" and they are not. Salty is close to being one, but he has HUGE questions as to whether he can even stay behind the plate.

But I must ask....How exactly are the 95+ win RS desperate when the, almost no shot at making the playoffs, AZ and TX are "sitting pretty"?

The Sox are NOT going to trade a top tier pitching prospect for a C with a lot of question marks.

Neither of them is worth Buchholz and Montero probably isn't enough to get Bard anymore.

The thing a lot of people aren't taking into account is that the catching position is, probably seventy percent of the time, a garbage hitter. The Sox lineup, as would currently be constituted, will likely be:

Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, Youkilis, Drew, Bay, Lowell, Varitek, Lowrie.

Now, I can't say off the top of my head how many teams actually have a decent quality hitter in the eighth spot in the order, but I'd wager the number is extremely low.

My point, basically, that yes an elite catcher who can hit .280+ would sure be nice, but there are plenty of teams with a sub .220 hitter toward the back of the order. The Sox, with or without Varitek and his black hole of a bat in the lineup, are still one of the top three to five offenses in the MLB, barring injury. Suffice to say, they're not in any desperation mode. The team can stand to have a garbage catcher for a couple years and still compete in any division in the game. Hell, Varitek completely tanked in in 2007 and they still managed to pull in the best record in the MLB and win it all, and that was with Doug Mirabelli backing him up, and I sincerely doubt he was considered the long term answer.

andrewYF, obviously YF stands for '"YANKEE FAN" who trolls on sox posts because he can't stand his newfound inferiority complex! So Sad!

Oh, my bad. I forgot - all Red Sox prospects are future HOF studs, and all other prospects are duds who will never amount to anything.

Never, ever, ever, get into an argument with a Red Sox homer, a Yankees homer, a Cubs homer, or a Braves homer. Blegh.

I don't know why people consider Buch and the others such great players (MLB-wise). They are just top prospects who have tremendous upside but they have not proven anything yet in the majors. Buch has been great in the minors but he stunk in 08. Anything can happen, look at Ian Kennedy, somewhat "top" prospect with upside but look at what happened, complete utter failure at ML level yet great at minor league level.

Not saying Buch and the others aren't "elite" players but until they don't proof themselves (like Lester to some extent) I wouldn't be giving them so much credit.

Also, stats from ST are irrelevant. I can guarantee you that starters don't try as hard as they would in a game that actually counts and half the time the pitchers face bench players or AAA players.

Not going to try to start a argument here, but I don't know if a relief prospect, Bard, would be enough.

"Yeah, because we clearly arent looking to acquire a "never to amount to nothing", the price doesnt work, a catcher for a starting pitcher, no matter what you think of our team.

you should actaully comment on the actual article before you try to blast someone, so you dont look like a guy that cruises boards to blast certain fans"

Um, d00d? I did. At 10:25 am.

The Red Sox do not have any high-ceiling catching prospects. In fact, in terms of catching depth, the Red Sox are near the bottom of the chain. There is no Wieters (ok, no one has a Wieters but the Orioles), no Teagarden, no Ramirez, no Montero, no Romine, no Clement, no Bryan Anderson, etc.

The Red Sox depth lies in their pitching.

If the Red Sox want a catcher, they will have to deal pitching. If they're willing to stick with Varitek, fill in with stopgaps, and pursue Mauer, they can do that. I personally think that would be disastrous, but that's me.

The Yankees and Red Sox can not afford to field even one mediocre hitter in that division - Gardner/Cabrera are much worse than Ellsbury, and Varitek is much worse than Posada, but they're otherwise very similar offensive teams. If Austin Jackson pans out, the Yankees fill in their CF weakness. If Montero or Romine pan out, there's Posada's replacement. If the Sox don't replace Varitek with a decent bat, they will give the Yankees an advantage.

That said, they're both going to the playoffs for the foreseeable future. Best two teams in baseball, without a doubt, at the moment.

Eh, screwed up:

1.Matt Wieters#, Orioles (1) 22 AA
2.Buster Posey, Giants (14) 22 SS
3.Carlos Santana#, Indians (26) 22 AA
4.Jesus Montero, Yankees (38) 19 Low A
5.J.P. Arencibia, Blue Jays (43) 23 AA
6.Jason Castro*, Astros (53) 21 SS
7.Lou Marson, Phillies (66) 22 Majors
8.Wilson Ramos, Twins (71) 21 High A
9.Taylor Teagarden, Rangers (73) 25 Majors
10.Brett Lawrie, Brewers (81) 19 —
11.Max Ramirez, Rangers (84) 24 Majors
12.Kyle Skipworth*, Marlins (85) 19 Rookie
13.Tyler Flowers, White Sox (99) 23 High A
14.Angel Salome, Brewers 22 Majors
15.Bryan Anderson*, Cardinals 22 AAA
16.Derek Norris, Nationals 20 SS
17.Travis d'Arnaud, Phillies 20 Low A
18.Austin Romine, Yankees 20 Low A
19.Wilin Rosario, Rockies 20 Rookie
20.Jonathan Lucroy, Brewers 22 High A
21.Adam Moore, Mariners 24 AA
22.Josh Donaldson, Athletics 23 High A
23.Cole Armstrong*, White Sox 25 AAA
24.Welington Castillo, Cubs 21 AAA
25.Michael McKenry, Rockies 24 High A

"The Yankees and Red Sox can not afford to field even one mediocre hitter in that division"

Pitching wins championships. You can't say this enough. The Red Sox had the best record in baseball in 2007 with two crappy hitters in the lineup.

There is no reason to believe that all of them won't improve ***

They could all definitely improve, but they can't afford any of them to regress. And it's more likely that one will regress/get injured than it is that they will all improve. That said, I secretly love the Rays...which sucks, because I'm a Red Sox fan. (so I'm not just hating on them)

"They do, but he's 20 years old at single A. Exposito hit about .293 last year with 21 homers. His scouting report says: "excellent present power with the ability to add even more pop, ultimately has 25 home run potential." and "Behind the plate, Exposito has tremendous catcher's tools, including very good blocking skills, a strong arm, great instincts, and outstanding game calling ability."

In the meantime, there is Kottaras, who had almost identical minor league numbers to Kelly Shoppach. And there's Dusty Brown, who is probably a little better, but Kottaras ran out of options first."

Kottaras and Brown aren't top tier prospects. They're major league backups at best. Ditto Cervelli of the Yankees.

Haven't heard of Exposito - that's nice power for a 21 year old - I'll have to see what league/ballpark he was in to see if was legit. His K/9, BB/9, etc., are horrid, though, which says he's makes big contact WHEN he makes contact, but has too many holes in his swing.

The Rays are a GREAT team, but I look for them to regress at least a little bit. I don't see their entire starting rotation staying healthy the whole season. I think they come in a little shy of the 90 win mark, but it wouldn't surprise me if they passed the 90 mark either.

Midtown is a joke, and its unbelievable how many cocky ass red sox fans there are that think their pitching prospects are probably even to much for weiters. There is a reason talks are still coming up for salty from the red sox side and why the rangers are asking for so much, so stop acting like a reliever prospect is going to get it done or is even too much for him.

"I think if the Rangers were desperate they would have settled for whatever the Red Sox offered for salty"

Well that's kinda the point. Neither team is desperate. The Rangers know they can't compete this year but have an army of prospects approaching within a year or 2. Red Sox philosophy is towards hoarding pitching. And despite whatever anyone says, they're not desperate for a catcher.

"You can't talk sense with a Rangers fan. These are the same people who think George Bush was the greatest president ever"

That's one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on here. I'm a Rangers fan, I've lived in Texas my whole life and I despise Bush. Who made you so high and mighty to stereotype Texans like that?

But back to the discussion topic, I would take Bowden for Salty. There's no way a relief prospect is worth a good catching prospect; I don't care if he throws 110 mph. Jose Valverde is a proven closer and he didn't fetch a decent player for the D-Backs, unless except for maybe Chad Qualls. There's no way Bard = a catcher worth acquiring.

Personally, I'm beginning to wonder about Buchholz some anyway. If he's a future HOF, then why do the Sox keep blocking him from taking a major league job? Bowden pitched well last year, has decent stuff and can probably be in the Rangers rotation to start the year. I think he'd be a fair price to pay for either Salty/Teagarden/Montero

As a curious Ranger fan...what is the most you Sox fans would give up for Salty?

"As a curious Ranger fan...what is the most you Sox fans would give up for Salty?"

As midtown said: not much. I honestly wouldn't give up much of anything we could potentially use. The best I'd personally give up for Salty right now is a bottlenecked position player or two, but we don't really have much of anything of quality that's apt to be bottlenecked, our entire right side of the infield is locked up for years, but that's where we have the least minor league quality depth. The only positions we have with someone close to the majors are first base and right field, both of which will be clearing up in the not-too-distant future.

The only guy we currently might see bottlenecked is Josh Reddick (Expected mid-2010, but Drew is signed through 2011) and I'd be willing to deal him, but I know it'd require a second prospect of equal ability to pull a catching prospect.

The thing is, as pointed out ad nauseum, the projections of Salty that say he probably won't last at the catching position past thirty. There's pretty much no question Youkilis is a better option at first base, so if the guy can't catch long term, there's absolutely no reason for him to be on the team, making him a useless addition. If we had a catching problem and an impending first base problem, that would be one thing, but the best position player in our system is a first baseman who will likely move Youk to third and displace Lowell as it is.

The problem isn't that we don't think we need catching, it's that few Red Sox fans imagine Salty as the long term answer behind the plate. I'd be willing to give up Buchholz and parts to get someone who projected better (I'd pull the trigger on Bowden for Teagarden in an instant), but trading a top pitching prospect for a maybe high catching prospect, but more likely average first base prospect would be foolish.

I really think Max Ramirez is the guy the Red Sox should target, and they should be willing to deal Buchholz+another pitcher for him.

High price to pay, but Max is the best of the Texas catchers.

OTOH, I really believe Texas is going to stick with Salty as the starting catcher to drive up his trade value before dealing him.

"High price to pay, but Max is the best of the Texas catchers"

If you ONLY factor in hitting, then MAYBE he is the best of them. As far as I'm concerned he will never be good enough behind the dish to stick so he is the worst of the three.