Braves Rumors: Vazquez, Escobar

San Diego wouldn't want Vazquez and the money. They'd want a Hanson type for Gonzalez.

The Braves would get rid of the two best players on this team!!

Could the Pirates make a move for Escobar....probably not but it would be nice.

"Then add Kotchman and Locke and remove Vazquez. Move Kawakami to long relief."

As in Jeff Locke that was traded to Pittsburgh?

Escobar/Frenchy for Buchholz/green or Lowrie.

Then ship Vazquez out.

Maybe Dye or Dunn?
Texas needs pitching. Cruz?

Or just flip Buchholz along with Kotchman and extra parts to San Diego for Gonzalez and keep our staff intact.

Remember Vasquez can't be traded to the NL or AL West w/o his permission.

Could Yunel come to Pittsburgh please?

One little question about if we trade escobar:

Who do you expect to play SS for the next 80 games?

Posted by: bravesfansc | July 03, 2009 at 03:46 PM

Thats a good question and exactly why Escobar is even less likely to be moved. Any deal would require a SS in return, along with a ton more. Escobar is one of the games most valueable SS and one of the best hitters the Braves have. I'm a huge Bobby Cox fan, but if I had to choose between the 2 of them I would want to keep Escobar. Cox needs to get over it

"Escobar/Frenchy for Buchholz/green or Lowrie."

This is a joke right?

The Braves can't handle Escobar's emotion, they are an old school team afraid of changing to the new school. Red Sox make a lot of sense, but I'm not sure they have much we are interested in.

Someone mentioned the Pirates, I'd love to get Ryan Doumit when he gets healthy. It makes sense.

Sorry Ian Smell but as i look over our roster and farm system I see no possible matches for Escobar.

"Who do you expect to play SS for the next 80 games?"

Hernandez/Infante, Waiver wire fodder. Who cares?

Escobar is the type of young/cheap/controllable talent MLB teams sell their farm for.
Same with San Diego and Gonzalez, Padres need A LOT right now. They would be willing to ship out Gonzalez for the right package.
Escobar/pitching/pitching

Escobar/Frenchy for Buchholz/green or Lowrie."

This is a joke right?

Posted by: porto5 | July 03, 2009 at 03:55 PM

If the Braves offered Esco for Buchholz, The Sox would trip over themselves to make that deal. Theo would give more than that for Yunel.

Bravesfansince1990....you really think Vazquez and Esco are the two best players on the Braves? Really? The overvaluing of Esco has really gotten out of hand. I don't think the Braves should or will trade Yunel during the season. Maybe during the offseason, but not now. Javy has been great, but he seems to be their most valuable trade chip. Atlanta really needs a right handed bat in that lineup and Vazquez is probably the guy who will get it. Most Braves fans tend to forget..you have to give up value to get value. Nobody is going to give a guy away.

right feild is a much bigger thing to look at. prado is doing fine at 2nd. our infeild has good bats. now. casey is the only non power one. and the guy killed one last night over the rightfeild wall

Most Braves fans tend to forget..you have to give up value to get value. Nobody is going to give a guy away.

Posted by: njbraves

exactly.

Doumit would be a great add to one of the corner outfield spots. He can play all over the place, that's what makes him so valuable.

An Escobar/Medlen/Prospect package could bring us something good if it were to happen.

As a Padre fan I would love to see Escobar in a Padres uniform and if indeed the Braves could use some right handed outfield help Scott Hairston would be a great fit has had a great start hitting about 310 or so and has some serious pop RBI man in the clutch and would be cheap. Really not having a legitimate starting chance for an entire year.

Scott Hairston and Cla Merideth and a lower level prospect for Escobar.

It would benefit both teams tremendously, Hairston hits in the worst hitters park in baseball and would benefit from hitting in a more conducive hitters park. Paradise compared to PETCO. Hairston is a very under the radar player with all the skills just now began to get the needed opportunity.

Tomahawk
Do you see the phillies giving away utley, do you see boston shoping Bay, or The brewers shopping Fielder. No not saying that escobar is on their level at all but he is very important to this teams success and you dont trade away players who are a center part of your team its just dumb.
Especially when you only have to pay 450k for them and you have them for three more years for almost nothing it doesnt make sense. People are failing to realize that Lowe sucks, Jeff Francouer sucks, Chipper Jones is old with a Fat contract (13 errors in the field). If you call your self a Braves fan and you actually watch them You would not want to get rid of Escobar or Javy.

There is no way we can afford to trade away Javy unless for some ungodly reason they think this is a fluke for him which i do not. KK is to expensive to land in a long relief role. Escobar is a Great SS the old school braves need to figure out how to deal with young show boats. No one on our staff this year has been as good as javy. I would hate to see him go any where. I would Love to see a starting rotation of Lowe Javy Hanson JJ Hudson/Medlen. That would be the best rotation in Baseball. We are going to have to fill a big bat someother way no at the cost of Javy he is too good.

bravesfan
i agree with everything you said, i also see Wrens point if he does trade him for the right pieces.
escobar for Dunn type= no
esco for A. Gonzalez= huge yes

would rather keep Yunel though and move some of our pitching wealth. Outside of Hanson/Jurrgens, I would trade any of our starters for a power bat.

Also, we have Gonzo to move as well. Alot of teams would love to have a lety setup/closer reliever.

How about a 3 team trade: Pirates get Escobar from Atlanta, and Liriano from Minnesota, Braves Get Cuddyer from the twins, and Jack Wilson from the bucs, and the twins get Frenchy, Matt Capps, and Freddy Sanchez

"How about a 3 team trade: Pirates get Escobar from Atlanta, and Liriano from Minnesota, Braves Get Cuddyer from the twins, and Jack Wilson from the bucs, and the twins get Frenchy, Matt Capps, and Freddy Sanchez"

Awful trade for both the Twins and Braves.

I dont understand why we are/would consider trading Javy with no one to really replace him? Hudson coming back is fine and all but lets be reasonable that isnt til August and even then who's to say he will/can be as dominate as he once was? Additionally, why are we even talking about Escobar i thought our main concern was RIGHT FIELD. Jesus did we all conveniently forget that Francoeur sucks? I didnt every time i see that train wreck come to the plate i go to the bathroom. I rather have Vasquez bat everyday in the 8th position then watch Francoeur.

Moving on, instead of trading away the pitching staff we just finished building maybe we might need to concede this season and look to next season? Did that occur to anyone? Or would you rather we trade away what we built so we can make a run at maybe a 5 game loss in the division series?

No im not being pessimistic im being realistic. We're in a building process, we're trying to put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together. We found out Francoeur doesn't work so now we look for a new right fielder/bat if we cant find one reasonably before the trade deadline then guess what guys lets just wait til next season and annihilate the NL EAST

How about a 3 team trade: Pirates get Escobar from Atlanta, and Liriano from Minnesota, Braves Get Cuddyer from the twins, and Jack Wilson from the bucs, and the twins get Frenchy, Matt Capps, and Freddy Sanchez

Posted by: deli93 | July 03, 2009 at 04:43 PM

Why would the twins even consider that? An overpriced 2nd baseman, a decent closer (whuch isn't exactly a need), and frenchy, who would probably be a DFA candidate for Liriano and Cuddyer? That makes no sense at all. Why exactly would they be after any of those guys?

deli93, the talent there actually matches up really fairly, but one problem. Minnesota will not take on the 8million for sanchez next year in all likelyhood.

Bravesfansince1990. Escobar is tied with McClouth as the third best hitter. You seem to have forgotten they have the 2nd best catcher in the game. If you take Chipper, McCann, McClouth and Escobar's numbers over the same number of ab's as Escobar here is what you get.

Escobar
.294/.348/.435 7hr 40rbi 3sb

McClouth
.259/.340/.463 13hr 47rbi 11sb

McCann
.311/.393/.505 12hr 43rbi 5sb

Jones
.291/.404/.477 11hr 41rbi 2sb

So there are your stats. I'll say I don't think the Braves should move Escobar right now, but he is not the braves best hitter.

Posted by: bravoboy10 | July 03, 2009 at 04:44 PM
Where in the world did you get your stats from you couldnt be any more incorrect.

Sounds like the Bucs get the short end of the stick there. Giving up Sanchez, Wilson and Capps, and getting Escobar.

The Braves don't really "need" Liriano, but Cuddyer could help and Wilson is alright.

Posted by: Tomahawk368 | July 03, 2009 at 04:49 PM

That proposed trade had the Pirates getting Esco AND Liriano, to me, the Bucs make out the best in that deal.

With RISP:

Escobar - .406 in 69 ABs

McClouth - .385 in 13 ABs

McCann - .315 in 54 ABs

Jones - .333 in 48 ABs

So, yeah, Esco is definitely the most clutch and most consistent.

I still can't find a hitter that is available and is worth Vazquez. Dunn would be out because the Nats may not want that contract. The Sox are only 2.5 games out and have won their last six games, so Dye might not be available.

I still can't find a hitter that is available and is worth Vazquez. Dunn would be out because the Nats may not want that contract. The Sox are only 2.5 games out and have won their last six games, so Dye might not be available.

Posted by: Tomahawk368 | July 03, 2009 at 05:09 PM

thats what i think too. Cant find anyone

How about a 3 team trade: Pirates get Escobar from Atlanta, and Liriano from Minnesota, Braves Get Cuddyer from the twins, and Jack Wilson from the bucs, and the twins get Frenchy, Matt Capps, and Freddy Sanchez

Posted by: deli93 | July 03, 2009 at 04:43 PM

I think you need to change your name to delirious.

Vasquez for Luke Scott?

Dye for vazquez in any fashion is not going to happen. Ozzie doesn't like Javy and Javy doesn't like Ozzie. I know it makes sense and I wish it would happen, but unfortunately it wont

Or, Hawpe for Yunel. There would be some included from both sides of course.

Posted by: Tomahawk368 | July 03, 2009 at 05:20 PM

Vazquez for Hawpe.

Any deal with the Pirates involving Escobar, would have to involve A. McCutchen and/or N. Walker and also a SS. Any deal with the Padres would have to involve C. Headley and also a SS.

Most of the teams you guys are talking about already have SS thou. And its not really worth the hits to their systems to upgrade. Yunel may be better, but at what cost is the problem.

Like SD, they have Everth Cabrera and intend to give him every shot at staying there, considering he made the jump from A ball to the majors he is playing very well (not to mention the added speed to the lineup).

The Red Sox, Twins and Pirates make sense thou. But not really the Padres unless its a deal for Adrian, who I doubt they will move at this point.

How about Yunel for Rays farm pitcher Kenny Powers?

@tomahawk: I doubt it, they are not going to compete this year and Gonzo is a free agent, that doesnt make much sense.

Yunel to the Rockies doesnt make sense cause of Tolo. Same with the Rays with Bartlett.

How about Medlen instead of Gonzo for Choo?

What about Chipper + Escobar
to Boston for
Bucholz + Lars Anderson + Bowden?

Gives the Braves two future stud pitchers plus a future 1b

2010 Braves Rotation
Hanson
JJ
Lowe
Bowden
Bucholz

It would still give flexibity to move Vazquez now and Hudson during the offseason (if they want)

Does anyone know when Infante is expected back? He was a great spark for the team until he got hurt, hopefully he can come back and get going quickly again.

@tomahawk: Its possible, but the Braves would have to add more to the deal, a lot more. Like a replacement outfielder, someone better then Jones/Frenchy.

But who ever said about Yunel the Padres, now that i think about it I wouldnt mind an Infield of Blanks/Cabrera/Escobar/Headley. Of course the outfield would be who knows/who knows/god knows. But I dont see a match up for Adrian, one the Braves would like the upgrade the outfield, and two the Padres are reluctant to trade Adrian. Plus who knows how the front offices see each other after the Peavy drama of the offseason. Plus the Padres would demand Hanson or Heyward in the deal, which the Braves wont do.

gfulla, according the Bill James' fielding Bible Escobar was the 3rd best defensive shortstop in major league baseball last year. This year he has been hampered by an oblique strain and a strained hip flexor. Both of these injuries have made it hard for him to run and to move laterally. So, it's kind of hard to play shortstop with those injuries. So, yes, he is a top defensive shortstop when healthy. And this is only his 2nd full season playing SS in the majors so he is very likely to only get better.

I love how people are arguing about his defense using metrics, that tell completely different things about his defense. That is why defensive metrics are USELESS! Because there is no way to prove which one (if any are right) and five metrics can tell five different things about his defense. Enough with the worthless stats.

Right, because defensive metrics don't completely agree there is no reason to pay attention to them at all. That's some smart thinking right there. Defensive metrics are still in their infancy and they are still filled with noise, generally taking about 3 seasons to stabilize. That doesn't mean you don't bother to look at them. You use them as a piece of the puzzle, combined with scouting reports, and make an educated guess.

Proeye
ARE YOU really going to argue wins about Javy. It is so many more stats to show what a great pitcher he is. To win a game you have to have an offense to score, and a bull pen to hold it for you. So many factors play in to what a pitchers real value is besides wins.

The Braves need to take their time and not make any rash decisions. They are only a few games out and they have had significant offensive players hurt. McCann missed a couple weeks, Mclouth has been out, Escobar missed some games. If the Braves can get healthy (mclouth, infante) they may yet be able to right this ship without giving up our starting SS or top SP.

How about Escobar and Kotchman to Baltimore for Huff, Cesar Izturis, and Luke Scott.

Posted by: Birdfan01 | July 03, 2009 at 06:14 PM

Uh....how about NO.

Hairston is more of a platoon player than a journeyman. He just sucks against RHP, with a career line of just .236/.295/.419 and even in his career year this year he's still at just .274/.311/.451. You say he can play all the OF spots, yet his teams have only been willing to play him in RF for 2.2 innings in his entire career, and that's the position the Braves need an offensive upgrade at. He's not as good as he's looked so far this season and his performance will only go down moving forward. Cla Meredith would have almost no value to the Braves. They already have one of the best bullpens in baseball and they already have a RH groundball specialist in Moylan, who is a much better pitcher than Meredith.

I'm sorry, but that is a joke of a deal for someone with Escobar's value. Young SS who can legitimate field the position while providing an above average bat are rare and almost never hit the trade market. The fact that Escobar and Bobby don't get along isn't going to lessen his trade value as this is probably Bobby's last season and every indication from the FO has been that he'll just have to deal with it unless a great deal comes along. If the Braves really put him on the market, I guarantee you some other team will offer a far, far better package than Scott Hairston and Cla Meredith. That's just a joke.