Anthopoulos Would Deal Within Division

Ok? Who would the Yankees trade for though??

hughes, chamberlain, jackson, nova, montero, romine, mccallister, russo,

Kulaid, I predict both don't happen.

also felix isn't going anywhere.

roy for joba, gardner, romie, and either (aceves or robertson)

get it done cash!

then go out sign:
lackey (4 yrs)
pettite (2 yrs)
ankiel (3 yrs)
damon (2 yrs)

I don't see the Yanks or Sox trading for Hallady unless they are allowed to negotiate an extension first. Same as they did with Randy Johnson and the Sox did with Schilling.

Now this is going to be a fun offseason

Oh boy, here we go again. Yankees fans under valuing what they may get in Halladay by offering internet/blogshpere trade proposel with over rated prospects.

Wait is Joba even a prospect anymore? or just a 4th starter that can't get out of the 6th inning?

For Halladay

Red Sox:

Bucholtz
Bard
Westmoreland
Navarro
And one of either:
Bowden, Reddick, Almanzar, Fuentes

Yankess:

Hughes
Jackson
Romine
Brackman
And ONE of:
Robertson, Pena, Montero, Coke, Bentances, Heathcott, Montero

Don't let the media fool you. The market is still high for the best pitcher in baseball. I would command nothing less (5 top level prospects). If no takers then you still have next years deadline to fetch a nice package to a contender. Roy is loyal w/ a full no-trade. he'll only go where he wants and the team that gets him will be able to sign him long term. No reason to back off yur price, far to much talent for that.

Damn, AA is good at stirring the pot. :)

A rotation headlined by Roy Halladay and CC Sabathia is the best in all of the game hands down. Not only are these guys the two most durable pitchers out there who will give you 7 innings easily a start but they come through when needed and are at their best even on 3 days rest. Roy Halladay on a contender like the Yankees would be devastating for the opposition. With Halladay being acquired via trade, nothing would surprise me if the Yankees still pursued John Lackey on the side. If they could somehow nab Lackey and Halladay in one offseason while letting Pettitte and one of Matsui or Damon go this team could be set up to repeat year in and year out. No questions about it!

Yankees should flex their financial superiority and agree to take on Vernon Wells in the deal. The Jays would do that deal in a heartbeat, wouldn't even matter who you included in the deal. We don't need his bat but netting Halladay would far and away put the Yankees at the top of the division and baseball. CC, AJ, Halladay would be insane.

Halladay will NOT net 5 TOP spects any-more

I don't see Boston willing to part with either Bard, Kelly or Westmoreland but maybe a package oh Buchholz, Bowden, Pimental, Reddick & Navarro?

If anybody read AA's comments, he said it was not an 'apples and apples' situation, ie the Red Sox or Yankees would have to overpay to get to chat to the Doc.

The Yanks and Sox don't have to go after Halladay. But if they do, then you need to understand they WILL have to give up more than what some of you expect (unless no team from the NL is interested, which seems unlikely...)

"Don't let the media fool you. The market is still high for the best pitcher in baseball. I would command nothing less (5 top level prospects). If no takers then you still have next years deadline to fetch a nice package to a contender. Roy is loyal w/ a full no-trade. he'll only go where he wants and the team that gets him will be able to sign him long term. No reason to back off yur price, far to much talent for that. "

Awesome, make that same stupid mistake as last year.

"Oh yeah, we can trade him during the winter! Somebody will pay a ton for a year of Halladay!"

now

"I want top 5 level prospects! I demand it! If not we trade him at the deadline!"

Newsflash, this is the new trend. Teams hold on to their cost controlled players in this economy. They want to get production in a guys first 3 years or 4 years and get value out of minimum salary guys. Johan Santana fetched the Twins a very underwhelming package. Cliff Lee fetched the Indians a very underwhelming package. Even Scott Kazmir, who isn't on the level of those other two, but is younger, and cheaper, didn't get much of a return. You aren't going to unload some teams farm system for a 33 year old ace with one year on his contract. You just won't. And the more time you do wait, the closer it gets to just taking the 2 draft picks when he walks.

As A Sox fan I have to admit the Yankee announcers have some life in them. They crack me up, then I listen to the Sox announcers and sometimes I wait for rigor mortis to set in.

Finally a GM with a brain. This prohibition of trading within your division is idiotic.

You make a trade only when you come out ahead in the deal. What GM makes a deal thinking that they got the worse end of the transaction?

Using that same logic, if you only make trades where you are strengthened, it stands to reason that your trade partner is then weakened. If you both play in the same division then that is a GOOD thing.

The trading within your division is pure garbage.

Worst case scenario for Jays fans:

1. We get to watch Doc for another year.
2. We take two top draft picks.
3. We reclaim nearly $20m on payroll.
4. We hold out faint hope that Doc will re-sign.

Most Jays fans can live with that.

The curious thing to witness is other fans ripping the Jays for not bending over and taking second-rate packages. It's a pretty condescending attitude.

Every Jays fan knows that a team would be getting a durable, long-term stud in Doc. If you're the kind of team that could use Doc (to put you over the top), then you really can't lose out in the deal.

I really do NOT buy the theory that the Jays have lost the upper hand here. Fact of the matter is that if no team acts, the Yankees will take him as a FA. If the Phillies want any chance of beating the Yanks, they need to act. And if the Mets want to outdo the Phillies, they need to act. And so on.

The Jays will just sit back and wait for your phonecalls...

Somebody will blink first.

People please, if teams would not give top prospects for Halladay in the heart of a playoff race, and when they'd get one-and-a-half years of service from him, why would teams give up top prospects for one-year-left Halladay now in the off-season? While I do believe the Jays will net more than what the Twins received for Santana, the Santana trade is a good model for what one could realistically expect the Jays to receive. It'd be very surprising for the Jays to receive more than one great prospect(Hughes-like), and one or two above-average to good prospects. At least in my opinion.

John Sterling never said anything the best in his life. Honestly, that dude might be worse at his job then any other living human being on this planet is at their job. He is so awful, it makes me want to hurt small children if I have to listen to him. I mean, for one, he has these prewritten calls, which is awful. Everybody knows that this is scripted stuff, and everybody knows the best announcers are the guys who just let the game take them over, not the guys who go out of their way trying to find catchy punch lines. Not only this, but he routinely gets calls wrong.

I will never forget this, I am riding out with my buddy, he has the Yankee game on his car. It was a couple of years ago. Yankees at Colorado, Melky Cabrera is up, batting righty. I don't remember the exact game situation, but it was late and close, Yankees were losing. So the call goes a little something like this....

"The pitch, and it is crushed into LF and deep, it is high, it is far, ittttttttt issssssssss gone! The Melk Man delivers, and oh my god-"

Meanwhile, the ball was like 20 feet short of the warning track, wasn't even anywhere close to anything that could possibly ever be mistaken for something slightly resembling a home run. The worst part of it all is that he went on and on for a while before he realized the ball wasn't gone. Then, he says something like..."Oh, now their saying it wasn't a homerun". Really John? That's what their saying? Isn't the truth is that they aren't "saying" anything, they don't have to, because normally when routine fly balls are caught by the outfielder the umpires don't have to explain what happened to everybody. He is so awful to listen to, he does that kind of thing routinely, and even more then that are his totally horrendous calls after every Yankee home run that he tries to play off as joyful, spur of the moment happiness, when anybody can tell he stays up writing this new "material", apparantly thinking people will find it funny.

If I was ever being questioned by police or the government for some information they needed from, me, they wouldn't need to do any crazy kind of torture, just play John Sterling non stop at a high volume and I would sing like a damn canary.

"Lol @ not trading Phil Hughes for Roy Halladay. Do Yankee fans understand he has been a huge bust?"

I'm not a Yankee fan. I prefaced my comment with that statement. How does it feel to be a dipshyt?

Boomer...Buchholz has been a big disappointment. However, Hughes was rated higher than Buchholz was and Buchholz had his biggest period of success in the MLB in the second half last year, so going foward he looks to be in good shape. I see no reason why Buchholz can't be a good #3 guy. On the other hand, I have literally seen nothing to indicate that Hughes can be a useful guy in a rotation. Couple that with the fact that I was commenting on a delusional fan who wouldn't trade Hughes for Halladay straight up.

@Theodore:

What is the Jays OF situation like?

I ask because there's been so many rumors around Philly that Victorino is going to be traded. I don't know if that's a guy they'd be interested in (he wouldn't be the centerpiece, obviously). He's 28, two years of arbitration left, and plays GG CF. Decent hitter as well.

If TOR does need OF help, I could see him as a 2yr stopgap while whoever else they get in trade or have on the farm now develops.

Well said Theodore.

5 prospects? no of course not. That was even JP over valuing and trying to save his job.

However if a team, hypothetically speaking lets say the Phillies, think they need another starter (very obvious this post season) and they see a very short window of opportunity in front of them then why not make an offer of two alomst ready for prime time players.

As a Jays fan I would take Browne and Drabek for Halladay and be done with it. That's not asking for the whole cupboard and Drabek is still a mystery to some.

As a Jays fan not only do I not want Joba I don't want Huges. Why on earth would Jays management and fan base be happy with to guys who have only proved they can pitch 1 inning successfully.

As for some comparing Halladay and what the Twins got. Understand that two of those players were can't miss prospects. Hind sight is 50/50 only now looking back did the Twins falter in that trade. Which speaks to why as a GM you try to get as many top grade prospects in return.

Halladay is a for sure thing, any prospect they get in return is a question mark.

Brian

That guy is a Mets fan who doesn't see the point of sacrificing 5 years of Hughes and his potential, for 1 year of Halladay. It is a pretty rational thought.

It wouldn't be 1 year for NY, they have the resources to extend them until they like.

"Does anyone realize that just YESTERDAY, AA said that he wants quality over quantity? And people still have these ridiculous posts of "giving up more guys" rather than giving up the ones that seem to be somewhat proven. So stupid."

You do realize that no team is going to part with their top prospect for this guy now right? I mean to think a team will just trade away the best prospect in their farm system for 1 year of Roy Halladay is ludicrous. He is not the best pitcher in baseball anymore, he is one of the best but not the best. He is 32 years old, has never pitched in the postseason (not his fault, but still means he has to prove himself there) and is going to cost a lot of money to extend. A team would be more willing to trade several players with high upside rather than trading their top 1 or 2 prospects. Thats not called being stupid thats called thinking about the situation and making a smart offer that can help improve your ballclub as well as not hurting your future as badly.

This whole '1 year rental' thing is such a red herring.

It is far more likely that Doc will sign an extension. Remember that he will only go to a championship-calibre team that he approves of - and the Jays will likely grant an exclusive negotiation window in order to get the best haul.

PS. he is still the best pitcher in baseball. Or maybe you're still twisting your lip after his 1-run complete game demolition of the Sox back in July ;)

Hey outrageous Yankees fans, why don't you just trade for Lincecum, Hanley Ramirez, Albert Pujols, and Joe Mauer while you're at it? I mean come on people, they signed three humongous contracts last year, and Bor- I mean Cashman, doesn't want to add another long term contract, and trading for Halladay, signing Holliday, and signing Chapman? Really? I might actually stop watching baseball this year, you guys have made this sport into a joke.

"PS. he is still the best pitcher in baseball. Or maybe you're still twisting your lip after his 1-run complete game demolition of the Sox back in July ;)"

No I am basing it off of the fact that he is not the best pitcher in baseball anymore. He fell off in the second half of the year this year and players like Felix Hernandez, CC Sabathia, Zack Greinke, Cliff Lee and others are all in his league. Also, if you want to throw out one of Halladay's starts to try and use as an example why dont you use the one from this year on August 19th. You know the one where Clay Buccholz outpitched him and the Red Sox handled Halladay pretty easily?

"Sign lackey and keep all the prospects. Buchholz/hughes and Lackey alone > halladay.

Posted by: Lilkenny | November 11, 2009 at 01:54 PM"
Um, no. If the package for Halladay is reasonable, trading for Halladay makes more sense. Halladay is not only the far superior pitcher...in fact a top five pitcher in the league...but he also doesn't cost type A compensation, and any team who should acquire him has the option to GET type A compensation back in the 2010-2011 off-season, should said team choose not to resign him, or are unable to.

(all quotes originally posted by Jack Booulia)

"Hey outrageous Yankees fans, why don't you just trade for Lincecum, Hanley Ramirez, Albert Pujols, and Joe Mauer while you're at it?..."
Bad time for sarcasm. All Yankee fans were doing were making off-season proposals of players that the team could realistically acquire. Halladay...on the trade block apparently. Holliday/Lackey/Chapman...all pending free agents. And judging from last year, the Yankees have no problem opening their wallet for players who could improve the team.

"...Cashman, doesn't want to add another long term contract..."
Says who? The only thing I can remember seeing is that the Yankees would like to reduce payroll. With that said, the team can still achieve that goal and add players with the contracts coming off the books.

"...trading for Halladay, signing Holliday, and signing Chapman?..."
Trading and free agent signings are apart of the game.

"He fell off in the second half of the year this year..."

Seriously? Have you looked at his splits pre- and post- all-star break? Nearly identical.

Halladay can and should be a Met.

Neisse
Evans
Tejada
Holt
Maine

A front three of Halladay/Santana/Wolf is the BEST in the majors.

Thoughts?

I don't think Halladay is going to be a Met. I think they have bigger issues than getting a another ace.

"redsox22, you are entitled to your opinion, of course.

tbh, as much as it will hurt to see Halladay go, I can't wait to see him finally get the mass exposure he deserves. If he ends up on a Champ-calibre team with a proper offence, he'll win the Cy Young. I'll take any bet on that."

Thank you, and I am not trying to say Halladay is not a great pitcher because he is. I am just saying that I dont think he is as dominant as he once was and your right with the right team behind him he could still win the Cy Young.

"He fell off in the second half of the year this year..."

"Seriously? Have you looked at his splits pre- and post- all-star break? Nearly identical."

Sorry about that. I didn't mean the entire second half I was talking about when he went through a rough stretch going through July and August. I didn't know that he was playing through an injury though like Theodore pointed out to me.

"I am just saying that I dont think he is as dominant as he once was"

Before his injury I think he was 10-1 with the usual killer stats. He's the guy who is training at 5a way before anybody else gets there. Just an impeccable pro who will go for years and years. The prospect of him pitching against us for the Yanks or Sox (or even the Rays) scares the b'jesus out of me. I'd love to see him destroy some pitching records in the NL, though... :)

"Halladay is the ace card. The Jays hold it. Now the question you have to ask yourself is who is more desperate: the Jays in getting rid of Doc, or a dozen contenders who NEED Doc to push them over the top in 2010 (and block their rivals in their process)."

1. The way you phrase it "get rid of" is so misleading and you know it. Obviously the Jays aren't trying to get rid of him, but they should be trying to cash him in for other pieces. If you are comfortable getting the same compensation for Roy Halladay that you will get for Scutaro, by all means be my guest, enjoy finishing 20 games out with Roy.

2. Well I think all non-Jays fans have all said we don't think the Jays hold as much leverage as they did last year, or will if they decide to wait until the deadline. I don't even see how you can argue that point, it's just doesn't make sense, the longer they hold onto him the more his value drops. Another misleading (and it shines a spot light on your bias) thing you wrote in your response was that other contenders "NEED" (capital letters, really?) Halladay to get over the top. Did the Phillies NEED Halladay, or did Cliff Lee do a pretty good job? What if at the deadline, Brandon Webb and Felix become available? How much leverage do the Jays have? Please, I know you are a Jays fan but be logical: the Jays need to deal him this offseason.

I have a feeling he will go to the Red Sox. The Jays will probably want 2-4 close to major league prospects rather than 6 or so decent prospects. And the Jays have been interested in Hermida for awhile and the have an opening in right next year.

I know the sox won't trade Josh Bard or Casey Kelly and most likely not Ryan Westmoreland. I'd think something like Josh Reddick, Ryan Kalish, Feliz Doubront, and Jeremy Hermida could get it done.

If the Jays really wanted Hermida, I think they would have made that deal before the Sox.

If Cole Hamles had a decent year Lee might have been enough. Who knows.

Lets not forget the blip in his stats also came around the time when the moronic GM was bringing his name up every other day stirring rumors until the Predident told him to shut up about Doc

Posted by: PON21 | November 11, 2009 at 03:07 PM
----------------------

Thank you! Read my mind.

I'll reiterate, any team that gets Halladay without giving up at least 2 TOP propects is getting a steal of a deal. They're getting to replenish they're farm at the end of the year with those 2 picks AND they get Halladay for a whole year. Either that or they get him for lots of years which is way better than a couple youngsters.

Please tell me at what point in history are rookies judged for their entire careers based off of 1 or 2 years service, most of which in the case of Hughes was shortend by injuries or simply struggling? Hughes had some games where he was completely dominant and some where he got hit hard. It happens.

I simply do not see the Yanks trading multiple top players for Halladay unless they extend him first.

SoxFan2009: How has he failed as a starter? The only reason why he was moved into the pen was because Wang came back of the DL. Yanks decided he had nothing else to prove in AAA so they kept him up and moved him into the pen. When Bruney started struggling they gave Hughes a shot at the job and he ran with it. When Wang went back on the DL they decided not to move him back into the rotation and create another hole in the pen. How people can say he failed as a starter and is a bust is amazing. That's as absurd as me saying that Buccholz and Price are busts as well.

Of his 8 starts this year...

2 were horrible:

vs Boston: 4 IP, 7 hits, 3 ER

vs B'more: 1 IP, 8 hits, 8 ER

3 were decent:

vs MInnesota: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 walks vs 2 strikeouts

vs B'more: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 1 walks vs 9 strikeouts

vs Cleveland: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 walks vs 6 strikeouts

2 were great:

vs Detroit: 6 IP, 2 hits, 0 ER, 2 walks vs 6 strikeouts

vs Texas: 8 IP, 3 hits, 0 ER, 1 walks vs 6 strikeouts

As for the remark of "He can't be brought on with men on base as a reliever".

In 24 save situations opponents have batted .174/.224 so I challenge you on the notion that they "babied" him. He came in with runners on base and excelled. Don't let the one or two games you watched during the WS deceive you.

"Lets not forget the blip in his stats also came around the time when the moronic GM was bringing his name up every other day stirring rumors until the Predident told him to shut up about Doc"

so you are saying he is mentally weak? Not a very good trait in a pitcher, especially one we are talking about possibly landing in NY.

"What's so great about Hughes? He's failed as a starter. He can't pitch out of tough situations. He can't be brought on with men on base as a reliever. The only reason he looks good is because the Yankees have babied him and put him in favorable situations."

Okay. Then you don't ever get to use Clay Buchholz in a trade proposal, or in a mock lineup. He sucks, just like Hughes. Plus he is 3 years older.

Sarcasm. That doesn't even deserve a logical response. Red Sox fan who says Hughes sucks? Yawn. Somebody wake me later.

Hughes was better at 21 then Clay is right now.