Reds To Cut Payroll, Big Names Could Be Dealt

Can Phillips play third? That would be a ridiculous infield if Phillips could play third and the Phillies aquired him.

Harang and Arroyo are as good as gone.

Phillips is a fairly mediocre hitter on the road..

Vottos going nowhere

Id be fine with trading phillips though and give Frazier a shot at 2nd

You want better attendance then you need to field a better product.

Cordero should also be the first one to go, .500 teams at best don't need 12 million dollar closers, but they need SPs that can get 200 innings and the offense needs Phillips.

Perhaps if they didn't throw millions at Dusty Baker and Taveras they would have money for their players that are actually worth what they are paying them.

I'm a Reds fan but I'm getting closer each year to just caring about my fantasy teams.

Getting really tired of large market teams being able to go out and spend billions then throw another 60 million at it just to fix their backend of the rotation when other teams have to compete with around a quarter of the payroll.

Votto isn't going anywhere. The Reds should keep Phillips because they just don't have much hitting. Arroyo or Harang to a team like the Nationals who are looking to start spending some cash makes perfect sense.

Perfect trade for the METS a#2 starter in HARANG and a young 1b; i would ask if a package of F-MART,NIESE,MURPHY(WHO COULD PLAY 3B FOR THE REDS) AND ANOTHER PROSPECT.
Then the METS could sign HOLLIDAY and WOLF.
2010 LINEUP;
REYES
WRIGHT
BELTRAN
HOLLIDAY
VOTTO
FRANCOUER
BARAJAS
CASTILLO
2010 ROTATION;
SANTANA
HARANG
WOLF
PEREZ
PELFREY/MAINE

Trade Votto?
I say nay.
Harang and Arroyo need to be dumped. They should have been dumped at the deadline.
I agree with Danya, keep Votto and use Yonder to "sweeten" the deal. He's the one with something to prove, not Votto.

Its always a shame when a team is forced to overhaul their roster because attendance was down a little bit.

Votto is a cheap/very good player. Why is his name even mentioned in a piece about the Reds wanting to cut payroll?

"Perfect trade for the METS a#2 starter in HARANG and a young 1b; i would ask if a package of F-MART,NIESE,MURPHY(WHO COULD PLAY 3B FOR THE REDS) AND ANOTHER PROSPECT.
Then the METS could sign HOLLIDAY and WOLF.
2010 LINEUP;
REYES
WRIGHT
BELTRAN
HOLLIDAY
VOTTO
FRANCOUER
BARAJAS
CASTILLO
2010 ROTATION;
SANTANA
HARANG
WOLF
PEREZ
PELFREY/MAINE"

Dammit! Another Mets fan making an idiotic trade proposal! When will it stop?!?!

If Votto or Brandon Phillips is availble, I can see the Braves jumping on this. Cordero would be another player that the Braves would love getting. I doubt Votto or Bruce would be traded, but the Reds could get a ****load of prospects for them if made available.

Trust me, there's no way the Reds are trading Votto, so quit with the idiotic trade proposals for him.

Phillips, Arroyo or Harang are most likely to go, although dumping Cordero should be their top priority.

So here comes the ridiculous trade rumors involving the Red Sox and Votto. I should book mark for tomorrow when I'll need a good laugh.

Getting really tired of large market teams being able to go out and spend billions then throw another 60 million at it just to fix their backend of the rotation when other teams have to compete with around a quarter of the payroll.

Posted by: schellis | November 10, 2009 at 10:30 PM"

It's your team's own fault. Don't whine because the NYY (let's be honest, that's who you're talking about) put the money back into the team.

Cincinnati used to be a perennial contender, won a World Series in 1990. It is your front office that traded Paul O'Neill for Roberto Kelly. It's your front office that handed out that contract to Cordero. Your team sure dropped a ton of coin on Griffey Jr, so let's not act like Cincinnati is Tampa Bay.

Just take it on the chin, make your team better, and get the folks to come back to the game.

I see my trade as fair. F-Mart could potentially be their power hitting OF'er, they need a SS, but would have to wait 2 years for tejada, you can always use more pitching in holt, and murph can play 3rd

I could see a match with the Dodgers. They need a 2B and could use some starting pitching. Could Phillips and one of Haragn/Arroyo get the Reds Billingsley (who appears out of favor in LA) if the Reds took Pierre in return?"

Oh god no. The whole point the Dodgers have made is to keep the rotation they have the same, and add to it. Do you really think that either of the two pitchers are upgrades over Billz?

And how is he 'out of favor'? Unless you talk to people who think Broxton is crap because he blew a game in Philly, then all other Dodger fans would laugh in your face...

dont do that, no one knows...

Just for fun, what would it take for the Dodgers to get Votto? I know it wont happen, but curious

Gee, imagine that, the genius Walt Jocketty trades Edwin Encarnacion and two young, inexpensive Pitchers for old and injury prone Scott Rolen. The difference between Rolen's ($11 million) and Edwin E's ($4.75 million) salary for 2010 ($6.25 million) is about what the team is looking to cut in payroll.

Now, "win now" Ca$htellini is more concerned with the bottom line than actually winning and the Reds are probably going to have to trade one of their two proven starting Pitchers (Harang, Arroyo) or one of the guys who has produced Offense (Phillips) and above average Defense.

So, for those fans who were telling me that trading for Rolen and his improved Defense was a GOOD trade, please explain to me again how that makes the team better?

The way it is looking now, the Reds will have traded EE, two young, inexpensive Pitchers and one of either Harang, Arroyo or Phillips for the privilege of getting Scott Rolen for 115 Games at Third Base in 2010.

Without Harang or Arroyo, HOW is the pitching staff going to hold up?

Without Phillips, how is the Offense going to score Runs?

Jay Bruce put up better Minor League offensive numbers than Cozart and he struggled his first full year in the Majors. So now, if Phillips is traded, do people REALLY expect Cozart to play Gold Glove caliber defense and drive in nearly 100 RBI's his Rookie year?

I still think the Yankees can make a better offer then the Red Sox. They could take on all of Francisco Cordero's contract to be there set up reliever if the got Votto to replace Damon. The Yankees can easily give up Cervelli, Pena, Jackson, Miranda, Kennedy, McAllister, Nova, Russo etc. They could even add Joba or Hughes but then they wouldn't take Cordero.

hmmm angels were involved in with alot of past rumors about harang

Question. Cordero and Phillps to the Braves for Derek Lowe, Kelly Johnson, and taking on some of DL's contract.

Phillips is owed 18 million until the end of 2011
Cordero is owed 25 million until the end of 2011

Lowe is owed 45 million until the end of 2012
Kelly is going through ARB and is a free agent after 2012.

The Reds could also get a prospect to make it better. Just a thought.

I still think the Yankees can make a better offer then the Red Sox. They could take on all of Francisco Cordero's contract to be there set up reliever if the got Votto to replace Damon. The Yankees can easily give up Cervelli, Pena, Jackson, Miranda, Kennedy, McAllister, Nova, Russo etc. They could even add Joba or Hughes but then they wouldn't take Cordero.

Posted by: dan l | November 10, 2009 at 10:59 PM

Don't want to sound mean, but those are quite possibly the worst ideas I have EVER heard.

The Yankees don't need Francisco Cordero and his bloated contract setting up. The bullpen and minor leagues are loaded with guys who can do the exact same job for the league minimum.. or did you miss the 2009 season?

Trading Hughes or Joba makes ZERO sense because they are in our rotation.

Trading a bunch of guys for Votto when we could have Damon or Matsui on a one year deal for just money makes no sense. It makes about as much sense as the Reds actually wanting to move a cheap, cost-controlled player like Votto in the first place.

Not that I actually think Votto is even being considered traded by the Reds, but if they did I think he would fit well with ATL. We could send them a package around Medlen and Freeman (since we no longer need Freeman with Votto) and it frees up some money to go out and sign an OFer since we no longer have to re-sign LaRoche.

Or maybe im just in dreamland right now....yeah...that could be it....

Jocketty is a moron. He should have traded Harang, Phillips, and Arroyo two years ago: At this point Phillips pretty much sucks. He's a "somewhat" better version of Bill Hall. At this point, Harang is overpaid. Arroyo was always overpaid. Now they are going to "HAVE TO" throw in Votto in if they want to get anything resembling elite young talent. As much as I like Votto, finding a first baseman to hit homeruns at the great american ballpark won't be difficult.

I'm also gonna respond to some of the other posters:

No, the Giants wouldn't have to include Baumgardner in any package to get Votto. Baumgardner isn't going anywhere. The person that suggested it would take Baumgardner and Posey has his head so far up his...
Baumgardner is a potential future ace. Posey is an elite "catching" prospect. Votto is a very good player, but he's a first basemen...so no,not a chance. The Giants are really set up to become a dominant team for the next 5-6 years. You don't trade a potential future ace, and/or a potential future all star catcher for a second tier first basemen. I understand he's a very good player...but the Giants could get Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez for Baumgardner and Posey...without a doubt.

If the Reds can get F-Mart from the Mets for Votto it's a steal for the Reds. Although, I submit that Jocketty is too incompetent to pull it off, even if Omar Minaya is.

I don't expect the Reds to trade Votto...because Jocketty is an idiot...but Votto to the Mets for like F-Mart and Holt would be a huge haul for Votto. I still think, and I think most scouts still think, that F-Mart is going to be one of the true elite players in baseball a few years down the road.

Basically the whole point of this, and what everybody needs to understand is that the Reds are gonna cut payroll by moving Phillips, Harang, and Arroyo...and in order to get any of these deals done, they're most likely gonna have to throw in Votto.

Here Red Sox fans, lemme get you started on the right track cuz GOD knows that every freakin post in this thread is going to look like this:

"Red Sox get Votto, Phillips, Harang

Reds get Lowell and Bowden

Thats proabably too much to give to the Reds but Bowden is a garunteed ace, so I dont know if thats fair."

Twins couldn't take on the pitchers but they might be interested in Phillips. What would it cost theoretically? what are the Reds looking for?

what would it take to land phillips?

Baumgardner is a potential future ace. Posey is an elite "catching" prospect. Votto is a very good player, but he's a first basemen...so no,not a chance"

Um, what position does the best player in baseball play? Oh, yea, I remember, nevermind

It shouldn't be hard to find a taker for Harang. He's a pretty damn good and durable pitcher, easily better than anyone not named Lackey, Wolf, or Harden and really durable.

"by his #'s and projections should be a #2 hitter in the bigs, and he has a very good glove"

Because every projection works out exactly the way it should be. It's not a matter of who the Reds have in their farm. I might as well suggest the Red Sox offer Oscar Tejada (because the Reds need a shortstop), Drake Britton (because the Reds need a pitcher), and a real prospect.

Again. If the Reds trade Votto, think of a price that makes you squirm, then think of another price that would make an objective person squirm, now think of a price that would make a Reds fan who is an atheist suddenly believe in god. Now add all of that together and double it. You won't get Votto for pennies on the dollar.

I have trouble believing that Votto is available, but you better believe the Braves would be flying FW to Jockerty's house to see that a deal got done. He'd really be a great fit for them and keep their chances in the next few years great with the young core. However it's just dreaming, since I don't think the Reds would be smart to make Votto available.

However I could see the Braves also as a match for Phillips. RH bat that can be fit into the infield (prado could move to 1B for this) and hit well. Hicks/Schafer and a good pitching prospect or 2 (I hate naming prospects in trades since everyone always has different opinions of them)

"I mean, are you kidding me?"

You forgot... Lowell alone could have gotten us Votto, Phillips, Harang, AND Alonso.

"You forgot... Lowell alone could have gotten us Votto, Phillips, Harang, AND Alonso."
That's still not enough for Lowell you have to throw Cordero in there too and then you got a fair trade.

Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, Stubbs...All are basically untouchable. None of the "Trade Votto" rumors make sense.

If the Reds want to dump payroll...then BTWN now & the HotStove/ST...I could see:

Hernandez being allowed to walk w/o offering Arb.

Gomes being tendered, signed & traded before ST.

Taveras getting wrapped w/ a couple good prospects to get his $4M mistake moved.

Phillips is more than likely gone in short order.. (not only does his contract gets ugly after 2010 - he had hustle/focus issues & fell out of favor w/ Jocketty mid yr - about the same time top100 prospect Todd Frazier was fast-tracked to 2B)

Though the Reds will need both Harang & Arroyo until they have a better read on how Volquez's rehab is going. I'd still expect one (if not both) to be moved by the ASB/non-waiver period (if out of contention in early JUL)...

BUT... If Voltron's rehab looks to be delayed..They may keep both the entire season...Then but-out their opt. yrs at $2M per ($4M total)... Which would save the Reds $19.5M off of the 2011 pay-roll.

"That's still not enough for Lowell you have to throw Cordero in there too and then you got a fair trade."

Fine. But the Reds pay Cordero's salary and send Theo a good fruit basket.

"Jocketty is a moron. He should have traded Harang, Phillips, and Arroyo two years ago: At this point Phillips pretty much sucks. He's a "somewhat" better version of Bill Hall. At this point, Harang is overpaid. Arroyo was always overpaid. Now they are going to "HAVE TO" throw in Votto in if they want to get anything resembling elite young talent. As much as I like Votto, finding a first baseman to hit homeruns at the great american ballpark won't be difficult."

Okay, Jocketty should have traded Harang, Arroyo, and Phillips BEFORE he was even the GM. Good thinking.

Bill Hall's 162 game ave for the last 3 years: .229/.291OBP/17HR/67RBI/5 SB

Brandon Phillips 162 game average for the last 3 years: .276/.324/26HR/97RBI/29 SB/ Gold Glove

Maybe you should know a little bit about what you're talking about before you say it.

"You forgot... Lowell alone could have gotten us Votto, Phillips, Harang, AND Alonso."
That's still not enough for Lowell you have to throw Cordero in there too and then you got a fair trade.

Posted by: ericbrat20 | November 10, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Well, that may be when Theo should actually start talking. I mean, the Reds should probably throw in Cueto and/or Volquez.

Still think Im not joking you Egan?

yea votto's a throw in to get a team to take on a bad contract.

ha. ahaha.

What do you guys think about Arizona as a possible fit for Phillips. They have a bit of money to play with and could use the upgrade at 2nd. Perhaps the Reds could even get Drew in return, which would help cushion the loss of Phillips while also acting as salary relief.

Why would the Reds give away their future and their best player just to save 6 Million?

Sorry Mark Polishuk, but that's the dumbest article I've ever read.

Marinersfan: Actually, I could see the Reds doing a Lopez for Phillips deal. Remember who the Reds hired as a special assistant to Jockettey...Bill Bavasi (shudder).

I wouldn't like the deal because Lopez looks like BP without speed, and he's seriously challenged in the OBP department.

If the Reds wanted to cut payroll by 6 mil they could just trade Harang or Arroyo and take on half their contract.

Murphy is both useless and worthless, he was one of the worst first basemen in the league last year with no potential to become better.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 10, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Murphy isn't great but to say he has no potential to improve is just flat out ignorant.

I don't see Phillips going anywhere. Tooth-pick baker loves this guy in the clean up hole. Votto is like the greatest thing in Cincy since Cincinnati Chili. Both of them stay in place. Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero will be packing soon. Just curious, but why no mention of Scott Rolen, or did I miss it????

bravesbacker: No mention of trading Rolen because Jocketty and Castellini have major man-love for him. He won't be traded.

Can we all just please agree that Votto will not be traded? I mean its mind boggling to see some of these trade rumors. The Mets apparentally are going to trade for Votto, sign Lackey, sign Holliday, and sign Orlando Hudson in one offseason according to some people on here. I know there have been some bad Red Sox proposals in the past but in these past few days I think the Mets have surpassed them in horrible trade proposals. Phillips is likely obtainable but just give up on Votto.

"Jurrjens for Votto. Fairest trade ever proposed on mlbbravesrumors."

That's equal value but I don't think the Braves would do it because they value pitching more than hitting.

Posted by: Jay212033 | November 10, 2009 at 11:57 PM"

Then the Braves are stupid.

"Murphy isn't great but to say he has no potential to improve is just flat out ignorant."

And the team you root for is...?

"And if the Reds are wanting to cut payroll, WHY WOULD THEY TRADE A PLAYER WHO MAKES 437,000?"

Obviously so they can move the Arroyo or Harang contract. No team would take on $12.5MM for either of those two, but if the deal came with Votto, then sure.

"Yeah Phillips is not a Dodgers type player."

Huh? Please explain. Solid defender, power and speed. Perhaps you're speaking of the relatively low OBP?

Finally, Mets fans - stop..please.

I honestly can't think of a team that would take on such incredible payroll for average starters in Harang and Arroyo?? And not only that, but they would have to TRADE players to get them!? This is why the REDS perennially suck.