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« Ortiz Wants To Play Three Or Four More Years | Main | Odds & Ends: Schueler, Dunn, Yankees, Strasburg »
Trades Of The Decade: Pierzynski For Nathan, Bonser, Liriano
Trading A.J. Pierzynski made sense. Joe Mauer was thriving in the upper minors, so the Twins had a cheap, young catcher ready to contribute. They had even less payroll flexibility than they do now, and Pierzynski was about to become expensive.
Twins GM Terry Ryan obtained prospects Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for Pierzynski, but as Ryan told the Minneapolis Star Tribune at the time, Joe Nathan was the centerpiece of the trade.
"We feel good about Nathan coming back," Ryan said. "He's a major league guy who has been tested and who is talented."
The Giants called on Nathan 78 times in 2003 and he responded with a big year. The righty struck out 83 batters in 79 innings, allowing just 51 hits and 33 walks for a 2.96 ERA. Nathan's tenure with the club ended badly, however. He allowed three runs to the Marlins in the NLDS before storming off the mound.
Some thought Nathan had closer potential, but Sabean wasn't convinced.
"Whether someone is going to be a closer or a front-line starter is a lot of speculation," Sabean told the San Francisco Chronicle. "That is not necessarily the organization's view of the world."
The Giants had Yorvit Torrealba around, but they admired Pierzynski's play so much they couldn't pass up the chance to make a trade.
"It's not often you can send a reliever and two prospects away for a front-line, All-Star, left-handed hitting catcher," Sabean said.
That left-handed hitting catcher interested a variety of clubs. The Cubs, Padres and Orioles were among the teams who saw lots to like in the backstop. At 26, Pierzynski had a lifetime average of .301 and a career OPS of .788. He had just established career highs in every offensive category of consequence and was under team control for three more seasons.
Pierzynski hit .272/.319/.410 with 41 extra base hits for the Giants in 2004, but he didn't fit in with his new club. An anonymous teammate called him a "cancer" and a number of Giants told the Oakland Tribune that they wouldn't mind seeing him traded. Pierzynski remained on the team for the rest of the season, but his tenure by the Bay ended months later when the Giants non-tendered him.
In 2006, when Liriano seemed capable of replacing Johan Santana atop the Twins' rotation and Bonser looked like a solid starter, too, this trade seemed even more lopsided that it does today. Liriano had just struck out 144 batters in 121 innings en route to a 2.16 ERA. Bonser, a 2000 first rounder, had just pitched 100 innings of 4.22 ERA ball.
But Liriano underwent Tommy John surgery in 2006 and he hasn't matched his initial success since. Bonser's performance fell off in 2007, he was bumped from the rotation in 2008 and he missed 2009 because of shoulder surgery.
Meanwhile, Nathan has improved in Minnesota. He has never had an ERA above 2.70 or saved fewer than 36 games with the Twins. He's made three All-Star appearances since Sabean sent him to the AL and has kept his WHIP below 1.00 in five of his six seasons in the Junior Circuit.
At the time of the trade, Bruce Jenkins of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote that "Giants fans won't miss Joe Nathan," calling the deal a "steal" for Sabean. Nothing seems further from the truth now, but the deal didn't appear lopsided in 2003. The Giants gave up a reliever with a history of shoulder problems and two unproven, but promising prospects for an affordable catcher who should have been entering his prime.
Still, the deal is a blemish on Sabean's record and a major reason the Twins have won three division titles since.
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This is a perfect example of a small market team maximizing value when they could.
Posted by: BabyJesus | November 03, 2009 at 12:15 PM
More like a perfect example of a team failing at player evaluation in its own system.
Liriano was 19/20 around the time of the trade with K/inning at every level, not the kind of guy you'd give up on. Bonser had a couple of big seasons, but hit some bumps at AA. And Nathan was a scrap heap guy that pieced together a decent '03. Nathan for Pierzynski does look to be a steal for the Giants; where the deal stinks is the two "throw in" prospects.
I mean AJ had his best career season, hitting 11 HR and batting .312, but you only get him for one season before he hits free agency and you've got to give up two solid prospects and an MLB ready reliever to get him.
Posted by: afdaddy | November 03, 2009 at 01:02 PM
Honestly, I think that this is mostly an example of bad luck.
Yeah, the Giants probably guessed wrong on Liriano and Nathan, but still, that could've happened with numerous teams.
You don't know precisely what the process was in San Francisco or Minnesota that led to the trade, and as Ben noted, the deal appeared to a solid one for the Giants at the time.
Tons of deals look horrid in retrospect, it's the one that look like mistakes right from the beginning (Kazmir to the Rays and to an extent, Bedard to the M's, for example) that can truly be bashed.
Posted by: scribbletone | November 03, 2009 at 01:34 PM
What many people don't know is that while Liriano was only 19 at the time of the trade, he was injured almost every season he was with the Giants and I think he was signed when he was 16/17.
And BP liked the trade, here are some comments that they published in their 2004 book about the players:
Boof: "stock has plummeted just as fast as his strikeout numbers"
Liriano: "Scouts love [his] arm, but he can't keep it healthy. He missed the latter half of 2002 with shoulder problems, and then experienced more shoulder pain in 2003 after throwing all of two-thirds of an inning in San Jose... He's a low probability guy."
Nathan: "He put up strikeout and hit rates that were totally out of line with anything he had ever done before, in the majors or minors... we're skeptical that he'll continue to outperform his previous record by such a wide margin - PECOTA sees a nearly two-run increase in his ERA. Gone to Minnesota in the Pierzynski deal; this was a good time to trade him."
It was a great deal at the time the trade was made for the Giants, the Twins made a gamble and got the "00" on the roulette wheel.
Still, I was among the fans who wondered what the Giants were doing trading Nathan (I felt Liriano arm would fall off and Boof was too flakey mentally to amount to much) and I was assured by all the sabers that relievers were dime-a-dozen, that trading a reliever for a starter, particularly at a premium position, is a great deal.
FYI, it was Brett Tomko who called A.J. a cancer.
Posted by: obsessivegiantscompulsive | November 03, 2009 at 02:10 PM
I remember this trade seeming bad(as a giants fan) as soon as it happened. But not because of the players Sabean gave up. While Liriano was touted as being good, injures were always a concern so he had the makings of a good throw in for a trade. Bonser actually seemed like another Nathen to me. Good stuff, but most likely a reliever. And, I never thought Nathen would turn into such a great closer. What I hated about the trade was that Pierzynski didn't solve any of the Giants problems, and catcher was not really a postition of need.
The Marlins were looking to deal Derrek Lee and the Giants were looking for more power from 1st base, and I have a hard time believing the marlins would have turned down this offer, or at least a comparable one, maybe Feliz instead of Bonser. J.T. Snow was eventually resigned, and had one of his better years, but still was never a source for power that the Giants needed.
Ultimately it was just another case of Sabean overvaluing batting average from a player, and not believing in his farm system when it would benefit him, regarding Yorvit)
Posted by: me.yahoo.com/a/pBfqq09noOzmc.M_NlBvcRR691owI4A- | November 03, 2009 at 02:39 PM
I'm sure every team has been on the good and bad side of a lopsided deal.
The Young/Harris for garza/Bartlett deal has evened the score a lot from the Twins side. then there's the Johan trade. That's netted Jon Rauch (kevin mulvey trade) and some prospects that have disappointed a lot. Although guerra did enough to be considered a prospect again this year.
Posted by: kab21 | November 03, 2009 at 02:51 PM
I have a feeling in about 3-5 years people will look at the Garko for Barnes trade as being Sabeans worst. If not that then if F Sanchez remains on the DL for much of his Giants tenure then it won't matter what Alderson does, because we just lost a trading chip for a guy to sit on the DL. Our GM like our players doesnt know patience or when to pull the trigger, maybe he's the one who taught Fred Lewis how to hit?
Posted by: Lincecum_Says_GSP | November 03, 2009 at 03:14 PM
Yeah, trading a solid prospect in Barnes for someone who was likely to be non-tendered in Garko was a pretty poor move on Sabean's part, especially when Garko clearly wasn't the impact bat that would change the team's fortunes.
Posted by: scribbletone | November 03, 2009 at 04:16 PM
The key moment that drove the Joe Nathan trade was when Felipe Alou quite angrily removed Nathan from an NLDS game against the Marlins because of Nathan's body-language, it seemed.
Never mind that Nathan's numbers in 2003 indicated the profile of a highly successful relief pitcher whom the Giants certainly could have used as their bullpen would be a disaster for the next four seasons.
Had the Giants known Robb Nen would never have pitched again after the 2002 World Series it is unlikely Nathan would have been dealt.
Posted by: Matthew Schiavenza | November 03, 2009 at 07:42 PM
I can't believe that Barnes/Garko will be seen as Sabean's worst considering the low-level nature of the trade.
Posted by: dregarx | November 03, 2009 at 09:53 PM
I don't think Barnes for Garko will looked at as his worst trade. Thats probably on par with Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillabrand. Which was a bad one but not as bad as the Piezynski trade.
It's not just what Nathen, Liriano, and Bonser did, and what Pierzynski didn't do that made the trade bad. It's also the fact that those three players had a certain value at that time and Sabean used it stupidly. What makes the trade bad is that Sabean didn't address his teams needs, and used all his trading chips at one time. Since the Giants still had a hole in RF Sabean was stuck with acquiring Dustin Mohr, since he had no more depth to trade.
Posted by: Joanna | November 04, 2009 at 12:54 PM