Odds & Ends: Mets, Reds, Nationals, Cardinals

Links for Monday, as impending free agent lefties Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte prepare to duel in New York…


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49 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Mets, Reds, Nationals, Cardinals"


Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Well, I am pretty excited about seeing Montero mash some balls next season (hopefully) also maybe now we’ll see the Red Sox farm rated more appropriately at 13 or 14 way down from the 6 or 7 they received this year. Still scratching my head on that one…

4 years 10 months ago

Alright, let’s not start a debate on which system is better. However, while I agree 6-7 ranking isn’t appropriate, they are in my opinion a top ten farm system. I’ll be content if the Yankees land 12-13, which seems like it should be.

Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Fair enough, my friend, but there are times that the Red Sox are favored inappropriately (remember the Mitchell Report?) as well their ratings and so on…Wrap that around the daily Ellsbury and Lowrie for Agon trade proposals, (see yesterday’s brilliant article (cough sarcasim) by another inept Boston writer), you can understand my frustrations all the time with the Red Sox and frankly just about everything that deals with them. Until they prove to me that there are tangible assets in the minors (not a bunch of 17 year olds) and that Epstein can actually pull off a trade that makes sense, well then, I’ll continue to push these debates. The Yanks farm(s) dominated at many levels this year, all the while they are way behind many other teams in the rankings. Why?

The Yanks have churned out a handful of the best prospects in the league the last few years and the way it looks to me, they have some pretty exciting players on the cusp on making the majors.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

1) The Mitchell Report, it’s officially the Red Sox haters favorite conspiracy theory of baseball. It’s surpassed in the real world by “The Government knew about Pearl Harbor.”
2) Yeah, that article wasn’t a Boston writer saying this could be the package, it was him getting a quote from an anonymous GM. And as for stupid trade proposals… trust me, I’ve seen plenty coming out of New York fans.
3) Trades of Theo that made sense:
-Hillenbrand for Kim. Opened the way for everyday play of Ortiz and Mueller. One won a batting title, the other became one of the AL East most feared hitters.
-Brandon Lyon for Mike Gonzalez. Too bad Lyon unexpectedly failed his physical and Theo had to make ammends.
-Casey Fossum, Lyon, and De La Rosa for Curt Schilling. Oh yes, that made no sense when you consider how good Fossum has become… wait.
-The Nomar trade. Improved defense and the clubhouse… team won a series. And that trade took huevos grande.
– Roberts for Payton and company. He spun Roberts bench heroism into a prospect and 2 holes on the bench.
– Gabbard and Murphy for Gagne. It didn’t work out… it made sense, improve the bullpen with the best available reliever. Sense yes, worked out no.
– The Manny trade. Got a good hitter for an aging one also gave up 2 busts.
– The Victor Martinez trade. Had to give up a young pitcher and 2 prospects, but we finally got power behind the plate.
– Billy Wagner for Chris Carter. Thanks for the draft picks…
– Kotchman for Bill Hall. A first baseman we didn’t need for a bench player with potential power and 2 teams paying most of his salary.
By the way… some of the rest weren’t bad or didn’t make sense… they were just small.

4) The Red Sox farm could have some of the most solid players and you’d still say they were overrated. How’s Joba’s ace career coming along?

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

The original poster may be one that needs names. Ellsbury, Lester, Bucholz, Bard, Masterson (VMart trade) Lowrie, Pedroia. I would say Boston has done a pretty good job of turning out some nice players and for the most part.. Still hanging with the team.

TradeYouk
4 years 10 months ago

“The Yanks have churned out a handful of the best prospects in the league the last few years and the way it looks to me”

Such as?

Ferrariman
4 years 10 months ago

hughes was rated as a the top prospect one year, joba was #3 another year, Montero will probably be top 5 this season. Those are best prospects, just not exactly panned out.

EDIT: i was using Baseball America ratings.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, Austin Jackson, David Robertson, Alfredo Aceves, Jose Tabata, Phil Coke, Mike Dunn, Francisco Cervelli are all holding down mlb jobs and all debuted since 2007. They drafted or signed three guys in Montero, Romine and Vizcaino that were on top 100 lists this past year. They have a handfull of new guys that should make top 100 lists this year.

TradeYouk
4 years 10 months ago

The Yankees have no doubt turned out some solid-average major leaguers (and in the case of Hughes and Montero, above average), but to say they have turned out a handful of the best prospects in baseball, as Century said, is crazy. I am not sure what Century is basing his statement on. If it is Preseason rankings, here are total Yank prospects in the top 25 of BA’s list.

2010- 1 (Montero)
2009- 0
2008- 1 (Joba)
2007- 1 (Hughes)
2006- 0

I am not calling the Yankee system terrible by any means, I just don’t see any evidence they have turned out a handful of the best prospects in the league.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Dustin Pedroia, Cla Meredith, David Murphy, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie, Clay Buchholz, Daniel Bard… and that list doesn’t contain anyone who debuted this year. Also doesn’t include the name of a pitcher who debuted in 2006.

And only one name on either list won an MVP award.

Sniderlover
4 years 10 months ago

Why do you care about ranking so much?

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Ego.

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

There’s the issue of depth versus star power to consider, too. The Red Sox are scoring points in these rankings mostly because of depth as I see it (moreso than any purported Baseball America bias). It seems right to rank them in the #7 to #13ish range from that perspective. However, if you selected the one or two best prospects from each organization and had a panel of professional experts (scouting directors and so forth) rate the systems based on those one or two players alone, I’m thinking the experts would put the Red Sox in the #20 to #30 range, as there isn’t a can’t miss star on the Red Sox prospect lists (at least until we see Ranaudo face professional hitters, that is).

4 years 10 months ago

Carlos Saantana is more well-rounded, but Montero I think is the better rounded hitter. But comparisons to Miguel Cabrera is kind of blowing it out of proportion

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

Santana is also a much better guitarist than Montero is, for what it’s worth.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Montero is sooooo cool that when Santana’s wife/gf/groupie has “relations” with him she calls out HIS name (Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!!!!!!).

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

The most disappointing thing about Strasburg’s ruptured UCL is that we’ll now have to wait until 2012 for him to throw to Jesus Flores. So no Jeezus-Jesus battery until then.

Guest
4 years 10 months ago

All I know is dang, the Royals are stacked. Let’s see how they implement the tremendous talent they have onto the roster in the next few seasons.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Well when I looked out my window and didn’t see the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse I figured out that we can agree on something and it wouldn’t signal the end of the world.

Ferrariman
4 years 10 months ago

royals are unfairly stacked..its..ridiculous. they could have as many as 8 top100 prospects.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

… It’s unfair that the Royals have a good farm?

4 years 10 months ago

kansas city is stacked i believe so is washington who cares so much about rankings though tampa and texas have a good farm but its about production in the mlb even though both are/were in the playoffs now.i love seeing japenese guys come play in the mlb it adds a new free agent i know its posting but seems the guy fits with so many teams.i think the angels need crawford more than alot of teams and have to do what they can to sign him and even beltre have a monster lineup with morales coming back hunter abreu kendricks ect

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

Why Uggla would want to go to yet another stadium that ill suits him is just wacky.. He should be in a place more friendly than land shark, or San Francisco, where HR’s go to die.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

I love Boston market’s Brisket & Swiss Dip sandwhiches. I also loved their Chocolate Chip Fudge Brownies. When I was a younger man I had a wonderful time with the ladies of Emerson College. A nice smile, some witty repartee and a case of ‘Nati Lite can get you far there. I once mounted a girl names Aida who when to Mount Ida. I worked at a sports collectibles store as a kid in NY and had a customer who owned a hardware store in Brookline, MA. He was a portly and gentle man. I once sold a brick of Sam Horn, Mike Greenwell and John Valentin rookie cards to him and his kid. I felt bad afterwards because I charged him twice the Beckett price guide listing but quickly got over it when his kid said Roberto Kelly was going to be a bust and that Hensley Meulens was highly overrated (which he was). Gee Boston fans love their prospects. Speaking of John Valentin I met his parents once. They’re from Jersey and they came in to by some cards of their son. I took care of them and threw in some for free. They were a nice couple. I asked them “How do you let a nice boy from Seton Hall sign w/ the Red Sox?” We had a healthy collective laugh. I seem to remember Valentin hit a HR later that weekend vs the Yankees. His dad should’ve pulled out. In 1986 I actually rooted for the Red Sox vs the Mets because some of my HS friends were getting on me about the Yankees sucking. Since then my hatred has only grown more intense.

All in all, I have some good memories about Boston and Boston related things. I also have some bad ones. Overall I hate Boston and yet have to admit a certain respect for their fans and the organization. However, if I hear one more guy allude to them having a top 5 farm system I will go ape poop.

BentoBox
4 years 10 months ago

Boston’s farm system is top 5 …

Actually I’m more interested in seeing you go ape poop. Hahaha. :)

If you look at Boston’s farm system, it actually had a weak year. (For ex, Kelly had a blaah year, Rizzo not being able to hit lefties, Westmoreland out, Lars not improving his stock, Iglesias injury) They had a great draft (Ranaudo, Cecchini, Coyle, Brentz) and we’ll see how well they will perform next year.

4 years 10 months ago

I don’t neccecarily care who’s farm system is better, but not even close to top 5. Definetly not in the class of the Royals, Rays, Rangers, Orioles, or A’s, who should be in the top 5. The highest they should rank is probably 7 or 8

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

I do have to agree, top 10, no clue where. But it’s all subjective. Do you rank on potential talent, on how soon they’ll reach the big leagues, trade value, strengths and weaknesses of certain positions, on stats alone, on mechanics, leadership qualities, other intangibles? And of course any prospect coming out of a city with a lot of media you’ll have everyone else saying “must be overrated.”Rangers still top 5? Even after recent promotions and the Lee trade?

4 years 10 months ago

It’s kind of dumb just to rank farms by trade value, or how close prospects are to the bigs. I think it’s more along the lines of talent, and depth at positions. But of course talent above else.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

See that’s my point. That leftover feel good feeling? So many prospects have graduated or been traded from the Rangers and Rays you have to wonder if the talent has been replinished to still consider them to be top 5 or are the experts just being lazy?

Now to stick up for my Yankees for a second. With….

AAA-Jesus Montero, Ivan Nova, Hector Noesi, Eduardo Nunez, Gerald Laird, David Pehlps and DJ Mitchell

AA- Dellen Betances, Andrew Brackman, Manny Banuelos, Adam Warren, Dave Adams and Corban Joseph

…all at the upper levels at the end of 2010 how can the Yanks not be somewhere close to a top 7-10 team?

And that’s not even taking into consideration anyone below AA or any of the guys drafted in 2009 and 2010. That’s not even including Gary Sanchez and Jose Ramirez who’ve already appeared in some of the obscure (not BA, John Sickels, or Keith Law) top 100 lists.

4 years 10 months ago

Dude, BRANDON Laird, it’s not hard to get right jeez.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Brandon shmandon…yeah I know who he is. My bad. I scream out “Halle” when I’m with my wife Trish. I’ve got bigger problems.

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

Possibly BA is putting some stock into the overall value of 1-2 prospects on how they foresee them also, though I agree with you also on how strange the rankings have became the last few years.

I took for granted that BA took overall value of Westmoreland, Kelly and Iglesias and those 3 alone raised the stock of the Sox farm system, though that was with Iglesias unseen at the time and the ranking was before Westy went down with the brain surgery.

I still think that the Sox farm system is deeper than many give it credit for, especially at the lower levels right now of which several will be at high A-AA next season.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Prospect ratings are so subjective. Depends on what the evaluator places a preference on. Ability vs performance. Me, I’d like to look at both. But when I see a guy like Cito Culver the Yanks 2010 1st rnd pick appear on their top 10 list but a guy like BRANDON (yeah that was for you HC) Laird not even appear on a top 20 list after a 25 hr season @ age 22 @ AA/AAA it makes me wonder. Not saying that Brandon is going to be a full time mlb’er but his performance, age and level of play puts him in the mix for solid consideration. I can see a Straburg or Harper maybe given high rankings but they’re in a different class. You would expect Stras or Harper to rank higher than say, Danny Espinosa.

4 years 10 months ago

Thanks. ***hole.

EDIT: Just kidding man. don’t take it seriously.

Slopeboy
4 years 10 months ago

Don’t be such an arrogant Yankees fan. Your team has 28 rings, let them have their farm system.

4 years 10 months ago

Alright calm down. I agree they aren’t a Top 5 farm, they can’t simply touch the farms that should be in the Top 5 next year. But they are a pretty good #8, or #7.

CitizenSnips
4 years 10 months ago

“Jon Heyman of SI (via Twitter) doesn’t think that Dana Brown, an “[Omar] Minaya disciple”, has a good chance of landing the Mets GM job. Brown will reportedly meet with the club on Wednesday.”

Well duh. The only reason he’s even meeting with the Mets is because they had to scramble to find a minority to appease one incredibly dumb rule. It’s not fair to him or the Mets so why even bother? They both know he’s not gonna get offered the job so what are they gonna do, give him a tour the stadium?

Guest
4 years 10 months ago

Uggla has no problem hitting the ball out of AT&T Park, as evidenced by this season.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Why is it an incredibly dumb rule to try and give minorities access to available jobs? No one is saying they must be hired but a lot of them wouldn’t even be on the radar if it wasn’t for that “incredibly dumb rule”. Baseball has always been an “old boys network” and a lot of these guys don’t even get a chance to be interviewed or considered. No harm, no foul. The usual retreads will all still be around.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

And yet Kim Ng has still yet to get her shot.

Backup_Slider
4 years 10 months ago

Hiring Ng as GM would appeal to 3 minority groups:
1. women
2. Asian-Americans
3. people who have no vowels in their last name

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

#3 is a good one.

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

They have “Yankee Bob” Watson, former Yankee and now Selig’s personal stooge that comes into opponents (red Sox) dugout while they are in the middle of an inning and game is on the line to make uniform checks with the manager. how is that for miniority hiring?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Not sure what to say about that. I’m not trying to extal the virtues of group “A” or group “B” just saying it does hurt to have diversity when it comes to hiring pools and being that it’s about who you know and not what you know the rule serves a purpose. Maybe one day it won’t have to be inforced at all. But tell the truth, haven’t there been some retread managers w/ sub .500 career winning %’s that were hired and you wondered how they’re still collecting paychecks?

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

The point was not being negative with regards to minority hiring, just when hiring someone to show some sense of non bias at all.

I imagine Hank Aaron could have had a job anytime he wanted as a manger and is one of the higher ups with Atlanta at the moment. Stretch McCovey is high up in the SFG chain also. Maybe sometime an article should come out here showing jobs currently being held by minority personnel, rather than the lack of hirings being made.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 10 months ago

Yeah there are a lot of needless jobs in baseball w/ all of their special assistants and so forth. I don’t know Watson’s duties enough to comment at all though. I just don’t see the harm in forcing them to include minorties (African American, Latino, Asians, Women, Midgets or the Baka Pygmies of Cameroon) in the interviewing process. Doesn’t mean they have to be hired or given “token” jobs. I’m sure a capable candidate appreciates the chance to put forth their resume and credentials and earn the job as long as it’s done fair and square w/ out the “good ole boy” crap. It was that way for a lot of the young guys as well.

And I didn’t mean to imply towards you any hint that you felt a certain way. Your a Red Sox fan but you’re still a good guy. :)

johnsilver
4 years 10 months ago

None was taken, we have been having the little NYY-Boston discussions since this board began and it has been quite fun/enlightening :-)

Cookie Rojas comes to mind as a hispanic player who spent decades as 1st a coach, then manger, special assistant to a GM and has now settled down as a broadcaster for the Fish in his later years.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

I would like to see the YANKS go with some youth next year and let Montero DH. They could also work him in a little at catcher and lf.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

I remember scouting reports on Kennedy at the beginning of 2007 saying his ceiling was #5 pitcher. Then after 19 good innings in the majors suddenly yanks fans were calling him an ace and saying he was only worth Santana in a straight up trade. Then I remember him pitching batting practice for the other teams during games.