Rafael Soriano Signing Reactions

The Yankees agreed to sign Rafael Soriano to a three-year deal that guarantees the right-hander $35MM. The Bronx Bombers don't get much of a guarantee from Soriano, who can opt out after year one or year two. The deal sends a first round pick from the Yankees to the Rays and gives the Yankees a pair of shutdown relievers in closer Mariano Rivera and Soriano. Here are some reactions to the deal between the Yanks and the Scott Boras client with the latest reactions up top:

  • ESPN.com's Keith Law points out that the Yankees gave Soriano tons of leverage. It's "a baffling scenario" from the Yankees' perspective, Law writes.
  • The Soriano deal was more ownership-driven than from baseball operations, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Twitter links). The team's front office was split on the prospect of signing Soriano.  WEEI.com's Alex Speier notes that the Soriano signing seems to contradict Cashman's year-old opinion about relief contracts.
  • The Yankees had talked about signing Grant Balfour in a possible sign-and-trade before Soriano and Balfour agreed to their respective deals, according to Olney.
  • Olney suggests there’s a “major divide of opinion on Soriano within the organization, and that [GM Brian] Cashman's autonomy in matters of baseball operations may have eroded.” Olney points out that the Yankees now have two of the six relievers in baseball who earn $10MM or more.
  • Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal feels it's hard to properly judge the Soriano contract since "the Yankees operate on a completely different economic scale from the rest of baseball and can't be used as a comparison point for anything."
  • Tom Verducci of SI.com calls the deal a "smart" one for the Yankees and points out that it doesn't change the way they do business.
  • As Ben Shpigel of the New York Times points out, the Yankees expect the signing to take pressure off of their thin rotation.
  • Kevin Kernan of the New York Post argues that the deal saved the offseason for Cashman.
  • Chad Jennings of the Journal News explains that the deal makes the Yankees better short-term, but not necessarily a lot better. 
  • Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald explores what the deal means for the Red Sox. They will be tough to beat late in games, they'll definitely obtain the Rangers' first rounder for the loss of Adrian Beltre and Jonathan Papelbon could have trouble finding a massive deal in free agency after the season. 
  • FanGraphs' Chris Cwik says "it’s tough to defend any team that gives out such a large contract to a relief pitcher and this instance is no different."
  • My reaction has less to do with the Yankees and Soriano and more to do with Boras. How did Boras get a $35MM guarantee plus two opt-outs for his client in a market that was, by all accounts, pretty dry? It's been a standout offseason for baseball's best-known agent.


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244 Comments on "Rafael Soriano Signing Reactions"


start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Ok, I can’t read the Olney article, but he seems to be suggesting that this deal was made over Cashman’s concerns. Can anyone confirm this?

4 years 7 months ago

Bob Klapisch suggests the same thing. But at this point it’s only speculation. We’ll probably hear more much later.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, it’s always speculation. But the thing is this is a pretty player friendly contract for a player who didn’t seem to have a lot of bidders. And before people attack me for calling this a bad signing, that’s not my argument. I just find the contract to be a bit strange. It’s paying him like a closer and allows him to walk whenever he chooses.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Without knowing who else was in on him, and how serious any other bidders may have been, I’m not overly concerned with them paying him like a closer. But allowing him to walk whenever he wants is really, really odd in my opinion.

glook2
4 years 7 months ago

However, if he walks, in all likelihood they will get their 1st rounder back…

alxn
4 years 7 months ago

not to mention he could accept arbitration and get even more money

glook2
4 years 7 months ago

Arbitration is based on player performance and value. You think he will get a raise from $10M as a set up man? There’s always a possibility, but I highly doubt it. The only way I really see it happening is if Mo gets hurt and Soriano is the savior, in which case, he deserves Yankee closer money anyway and the draft pick will be the least of their worries.

alxn
4 years 7 months ago

Arbitration is strictly performance based, and is designed to give players raises. The only way he wouldn’t get a raise is if he was absolutely awful or injured, in which case he wouldn’t opt out of his contract to begin with.

I’m not saying I agree with the process, but that is just the way it is.

glook2
4 years 7 months ago

Arbitration is based on player performance and value. You think he will get a raise from $10M as a set up man? There’s always a possibility, but I highly doubt it. The only way I really see it happening is if Mo gets hurt and Soriano is the savior, in which case, he deserves Yankee closer money anyway and the draft pick will be the least of their worries.

bas_in_denmark
4 years 7 months ago

Is there any indication who might be overriding Cashman? I guess it might be Hank (pure speculation). At least that seemed to the case with the A-Rod signing.

monster55
4 years 7 months ago

At this point, it can’t be only Hank. Hal and the rest of Yankees brass has Hank in his playpen most of the year and only open the door once of twice for him to quench his need open his mouth. Hank could well have been involved (since it involves his money), but Hal and/or Levine would have had to had play a big part in this deal if any pressure from above Cashman wanted this deal done.

4 years 7 months ago

I’m positive these deals were inked from the power Boras gained for selling his soul to the devil.

flickadave
4 years 7 months ago

Boras has a soul?

Andy Mc
4 years 7 months ago

HAD. Read above.

4 years 7 months ago

“My reaction has less to do with the Yankees and Soriano and more to do with Boras. How did Boras get a $35MM guarantee plus two opt-outs for his client in a market that was, by all accounts, pretty dry? It’s been a standout offseason for baseball’s best-known agent.”

He must have pictures of Cashman …

Joking aside, how can anyone think the opt-outs are good for the Yanks? Boras has all the leverage here and he’s no dummy. This is a guy that got $126 mil for Werth and $35 mil for Soriano when his market was seemingly non-existent. I hate him, but he’s not stupid. The only way Boras would use the opt-out would be if Soriano has a great season, Mariano gets hurt at the end of the season, AND the new CBA somehow eliminates compensation for type A relievers

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

I’m quite certain there would be no compensation for the Yankees if Soriano opted out and went back to the open market after 2011 or 2012.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Why wouldn’t the Yanks get compensated for Soriano, alikely Type A, if he re-enters into FA next year?

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Because the Yankees would be given a chance to offer arbitration if he’s just refusing a player option. Granted, I’m making an educated guess at the contract language Boras negotiated for…

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

A declined option does not preclude an arbitration offer. Adrian Beltre (Also a Boras client) had a $10 million player option this year and the Red Sox were still able to offer him arbitration when he declined.

To my knowledge, Soriano will be in the same position next year as he was this year. Any CBA changes next year would not likely effect the 2011/2012 offseason. I have to imagine he would be very unlikely to opt out next year unless Rivera retires AND Soriano puts up phenomenal numbers.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Unless the contract states that they CAN’T offer arbitration then of course they can get compensation. The Blue Jays offered AJ arb when he opted out and was signed by the Yanks so it’s the exact same case unless it stated in the contract.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Right. And I’m speculating the contract may have language prohibiting an offer.

$1519287
4 years 7 months ago

If it did/does, we would have either already heard about it, or will hear about it very soon.

-ECB

vinnieg
4 years 7 months ago

I think one of the many big flaws in the current CBA is the draft pick compensation for relievers, It kills their value. Especially for strong middle relievers, teams are extremely hesitant to sacrifice a first round pick for a set up man. After the year ends I am very confident that they will address this problem and eliminate the A/B free agent for middle relievers. Which in return will hurt the Yankees because if he does opt out they wont be getting a pick for him signing elsewhere

vinnieg
4 years 7 months ago

oh and I want to add I am YanksFanSince78Fan. Love the comments man. You know Pavano writes on these forums? His username is Carl Pavano. As much as I hate him as a Yankee fan its cool to see their opinions and he responds to comments too.

4 years 7 months ago

Wait. That’s actually Carl Pavano? How do you know it’s not just someone else who made up the user ID? I mean I have seen Devern_Hansack and Kei_Igawa too.

monster55
4 years 7 months ago

That’s definitely Kei Igawa posting.

vinnieg
4 years 7 months ago

click his name he has his twitter listed. Its him. And Kei Igawa speaks english ? lol

Devern Hansack
4 years 7 months ago

I am not actually Devern Hansack. I just love the guy for his 6 inning no-no.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

What became of him anyway?

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

What became of him anyway?

Fever Pitch Guy
4 years 7 months ago

That wasn’t exactly a big accomplishment for Hansack, he was facing a 70-91 Orioles team on the last day of the regular season. Combine that with the brutal playing conditions (rainy & cold) and the 7-run Sox lead after 3 innings, the Orioles just wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.

BTW it was five hitless innings, not six :o)

4 years 7 months ago

Wait. That’s actually Carl Pavano? How do you know it’s not just someone else who made up the user ID? I mean I have seen Devern_Hansack and Kei_Igawa too.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Thank you sir.

johnsilver
4 years 7 months ago

Pavano has plenty of time to blog with his injury track record.

4 years 7 months ago

Because the only way Boras would call for the opt-out would be if the new CBA eliminates compensation for type A relievers. Otherwise Boras would be seriously overplaying his hand, which is possible, but not likely.

flickadave
4 years 7 months ago

I’m not so sure. If he has a great year, I could definitely see him opting out in order to allow a Yankees/Red Sox bidding war to take place if Papelban does become a FA. Stranger things have happened. Look what happened when Arod opted out…

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

That’s assuming that the new CBA doesn’t get rid of free agent compensation.

CutTheString
4 years 7 months ago

You think he’d get Type A status as a set up guy?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

As long as he performs well yes. Balfor and Downs were Type A middle guys.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

As long as he performs well yes. Balfor and Downs were Type A middle guys.

bj82
4 years 7 months ago

Werth got that money because the Nats offered it, what was boras supposed to say? no? H e never ask for that amount. Also, having Soriano will have a greater impact than most people think.

4 years 7 months ago

“Also, having Soriano will have a greater impact than most people think.”

What does Soriano’s impact have to do with the job Boras did to get him that money in a dry market?

vinnieg
4 years 7 months ago

who else was in on soriano? How do the Yankees spend 35 million WITH the opt out B/S when no body else was heavily involved in discussions with him !!

Whats the point of having a great pen if your rotation struggles?

This pen is going to get worked so hard next year

CC- unbelievable pitching. but got tired last year, if you dont believe me check out his september stats, and he pitched just as bad in the post season. From what happened last year CC is no longer the 250 inning 3 days rest workhorse anymore.

AJ- honestly, AJ next year is ___________________ i really dont know. But I know he will have his month stretch where he doesnt get out of the 5th.

Nova/Mitre- You cant count on him going to the 7th, when we use our opening day 4th and 5th starters the pen is going to get abused ! Over using your pen just ruins them and they pitch like crap see 08 Yanks.

Cash is not stupid, he knows that this will happen to the pen next year. Thats why he signed durable people like Felciano. Let me edit that, he signed the most durable reliever in baseball.

4 years 7 months ago

“Kevin Kernan of the New York Post argues that the deal saved the offseason for Cashman.”

LOL

4 years 7 months ago

Do you people even read the story or just headlines ?? The Yankees are the ones who put the opt clauses in not Boras !

4 years 7 months ago

LOL. That would be beyond stupid …

4 years 7 months ago

read the article…Yankees wanted the opt clauses not him…their not sure he can be comfortable pitching in NY is why they were put in

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

Soooo…they’re counting on him to opt out if he can’t handle the pressure and go seek less money elsewhere? Makes sense to me…

I see absolutely no incentive for the Yankees to offer him those opt outs unless it was the only way he wouldn’t seek a no-arbitration offer clause, especially at that money.

4 years 7 months ago

The only way (and I think the opt-outs are stupid) I see the opt-outs working for the Yankees is if he does excellent. Then he may opt out for more money, net the Yankees a pick back and allow them more salary room.

For the Yankees, it’s an acknowledgment that this guy is really optional to the overall future success of the team. Do great for us?? Sweet. Go away to make more money, and we’ll spend this cash elsewhere on our bigger needs, which cannot be filled by the superstar tier of the free agent market at this time.

Of course, none of this covers their ass if he does poorly, which is why it is a horrible move on their part. Basically, they had the money available and they wanted to spend a chunk of it to fill a current need, but Soriano wasn’t going to sign a 1-year deal. This was the poorly thought-out compromise.

-C

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

You acknowledge the scenarios of Soriano being successful but I don’t agree with your conclusion if he does poorly.

The Yanks are screwed in ANY situation where Soriano suffers an injury. If he’s signed to a “normal” contract w/ no opt outs and gets hurt then the Yanks are screwed because his years are guaranteed. Under the current contract, if he suffers an injury he’ll decide to stay. Same result either way.

So if your worst case scenario causes the same result (paying an injured player) and the best case scenario is him having a great 2011 and then leaving, netting the Yanks a 1st rnd pick and freeing up cash works for the Yanks and allowing Soriano a shot at more money on the market then it doesn’t matter one way or the other. The only way the Yanks would be hurt is because they gave up a 1st rnd pick for 1 year of his service and that isn’t exactly a horrible situation when you consider what most teams give up for a 1 year rental of a superstar now a days.

Pseudonymus Bosch
4 years 7 months ago

Way too much money. 2/15 maybe but 3/35 is absurd for a reliever who isn’t even your closer. And having a great 8th inning pitcher is not going to “take pressure off” guys like Sergio Mitre who will struggle to finish 6.

Rick Garcia
4 years 7 months ago

this deal to me proves Soriano was after the $$$ (not that there’s anything wrong with that)

JohnKruksWaistline
4 years 7 months ago

The report of him being willing to consider a bullpen catcher’s job if it meant the most money didn’t do that for you?

bj82
4 years 7 months ago

But it won’t force CC and Hughes to have to go 7-8 innings each time

Rick Garcia
4 years 7 months ago

true…itll be interesting to see how Soriano fairs in this role…im assuming he’ll have several more innings logged than last year since he’ll probably be used in both save and non save situations

acnumber7
4 years 7 months ago

Wasted money for a volatile role.

acnumber7
4 years 7 months ago

Wasted money for a volatile role.

Steve_in_MA
4 years 7 months ago

Either Cashman’s earlier statement was a negotiation ploy/head-fake, or Hal and Hank overruled him here. Its definitely going to be interesting to learn which avenue is the truth. The Cashman statement (that Type-A status would bar him signing Soriano) was so ill-advised, vis-a-vis the CBA and Union, that it was foolish on its face. So, that leads me to believe this was a negotiation ploy. Cashman is no fool.

baseball33
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t know about that. I’m starting to wonder about Cashman lately. A few things this offseason were very strange to me. The most peculiar was when he was hanging off the side of a building the day before the biggest day of the year for him. I would have liked to see him do that if George was still alive.

bj82
4 years 7 months ago

I think paying him like a closer was the only way he was going to accept a set-up role.

Shane McMahon
4 years 7 months ago

Brian “Cash Man” proves once again that without deep pockets from the Steinbrenners, he has no idea how to be creative, let alone work within a budget. Failed miserably with Cliff Lee (probably still in shock that his big money deal didn’t get Lee inked), failed with Pettite, let the Red Sox receive much media attention this winter, failed with his credibility (we will not surrender a first round pick), and panicked when dealing with Nora’s. Put this clown with the pirates or royals and cashman would go down as one of the worst GM’s ever. Take away the Yankees cash and the “Cashman” has zero ideas on how to be creative. He’s absolutely horrible. Giving Boras 3 years/35 million AND an out after a year is pitiful. Yankees will probably sign Manny next just because they can.

Rick Garcia
4 years 7 months ago

i’m pretty sure if any GM had the money to spend Cashman has they would do 99% of things Cashman does anyway

He’s not a bad GM, he’s just in an organization that demands the best players possible. Why would he need to be creative when he doesnt have to be?

Victor Kipp
4 years 7 months ago

My point exactly. His biggest problems are with the decisions he has made when signing pitchers. Javier twice, Pavano, Wright, Igawa, Johnson. I mean Gene Micheals left him a great team and he’s destroyed it with bad signing after bad signing. Look at that Starting 5 this year…total crap.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

How did he “fail miserably” with Cliff Lee? What was he supposed to do, change Lee’s mind? And how did he fail with Pettitte?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I have a question? How does it feel to say things that make no sense? I mean to just spew idioticity into the world for all to read?

Lee made a choice to go to Philly. Other than throwing $175 mil at him, I’m not sure what Cashman could’ve done.

Pettitte made a choice he didn’t want to pitch for anyone. Other than offering him $20 mil I’m not sure what he could’ve done to draw him away from his family. Honestly, if the guy doesn’t have the desire to pitch then why would you want him to do it just for the money?

Cashman can’t control what the Red Sox do or don’t do therefor he can’t control how much media attention they get. In fact, Cashman knows better than to do things JUST to do try and battle for headlines, and that would’ve been a far worse thing to do than to do little.

Who the heck is Nora?

He’s absolutely horrible but yet his teams have averaged 95 + wins for the last 10 years, he has transformed the farm into a productive system since taking over in 2005 and his team was 2 victories away from returning to the WS in 2010. Horrible.

TheMagicIsBack
4 years 7 months ago

Cashman inherited a dynasty team that won WS his first three years which would have won without him. And in the last decade he went 1-10. Despite spending more than any team in the history of the sport.

Are you happy not having a parade but once a decade?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

A GMs job is not to pitch or hit in the clutch. If your ace pitcher goes belly up in the post season, your closer who has been magnicent 99% of the time gives up a HR vs Luis Gonzales, your team squanders a 3-0 lead vs the Red Sox and guys like Arod and other forget how to hit then that blame doesn’t lay at the GM’s feet.

I don’t consider myself to be smarter than anyone but I am smart enough to know that any team so well constructed enough to win an average of 95+ games per year and then fails in the post-season to do all the things that made them successful then the blame is more on those on the field than those in the front office.

An example of a poor GM that doesn’t come close to getting “bang for buck” would be the Mets and Tigers from the last few years when they weren’t even playoff teams.

Say what you want about Cashman, and I am NOT calling him a genius or the best by any stretch, but he does an EXCELLENT job
at fielding strong playoff contenders YEAR END, YEAR OUT in perhaps the ONLY market where anything less than a WS parade is considered a failure. MAYBE….MAYBE the Red Sox are the only other team with that mandate. If the Phillies win 1 or 2 WS over the next 5 years and then they decide to blow the team up and rebuild I GUARANTEE you there will not be as much of an uproar in Philly as there would be if the Yanks thought to do the same thing and if you can’t see the difference then I can’t have this conversation with you because you don’t understand the dynamics of NY sports and the Yankees.

Think of it this way. Cashman fielded a WS champ in 2009 and the same team came w/in 2 games of returning to the WS last year. He’s built a great farm 2 years in the last 8 that ranked around 5-8 despite not having a top 20 pick in over a decade and ppl are calling for his head because he didn’t sign Cliff Lee or Carl Crawford despite having offered Lee $148 mil reasons to come to NY and despite having one of the best young LF’ers in baseball who made $400k last year.

Most GM’s don’t have $200 mil to spend but most GM’s don’t also have the mandate of going to the WS every year. There’s a cost to sustained success that only 3 or 4 other teams might understand.

4 years 7 months ago

Nice post.

flickadave
4 years 7 months ago

Most GMs don’t have a mandate to win a WS every year because NO OTHER GM has a $200m payroll.

You may not consider yourself smarter than anyone but I bet you are smart enough that if you were GM of the Yankees they would have won more than 1 championship in the last 10 years.

Shane McMahon
4 years 7 months ago

Supposed to be Boras, not Nora’s. Droid correction.

Chris1G
4 years 7 months ago

I LOVE your dad Vincent K. McMahon

thereal057
4 years 7 months ago

Dude….that was funny. About time someone noticed.

baseball33
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t want you to think I am a Cashman fan. I think he has done some good things and some bad things. If you catch me in the right mood I could probably rip him better than you, but I must say this- one of the most creative things I have seen was getting rodriguez who was a shortstop at the time and made him the third baseman.

Chris1G
4 years 7 months ago

He was getting traded to the Yankees so he knew there was a pretty good chance he would have been getting a WS ring at some point in his career. He also knew Jeter wasn’t going anytime soon and he was getting paid a ton of money. Going from worst to first I think if Cashman would’ve said you’re going to be the Bat Boy I think A-Rod would have done it. Plus the Orioles moved Ripken from SS to 3B not long before so it’s not like it was a real shocker for a player to do that.

flickadave
4 years 7 months ago

But maybe the Yankees would have won more WS if he had actually done his GM job and told Jeter that he was now going to be playing 3rd because Arod was the better SS. Just my opinion but I wouldn’t exactly say that was a success story.

MaineluvstheSox
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t know why everyone is so concerned with the money. The yankees print the stuff, it means nothing to them.

privey
4 years 7 months ago

The opt outs really doesn’t make sense for the player because unless teams pay for holds he will not get more than the 11.75 he gets from the Yankees. I believe the amount he will be paid is about right. The Angels were probably at 3/30. The Yankees bullpen is balanced and this will help.

4 years 7 months ago

The Angels? Really?

Jason Klinger
4 years 7 months ago

So what does this mean for Joba? If Soriano is setting up Rivera, does Chamberlain get busted down to long reliever?

disgustedcubfan
4 years 7 months ago

Maybe try him again as a starter, especially if Petitte retires.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t think they will, but it wouldn’t be a terrible idea

4 years 7 months ago

Joba and Robertson will compete for the 7th inning role in the Grapefruit League. Spring Training should be interesting for you Yankees fans.

$1519287
4 years 7 months ago

Am I the only one who has more confidence in Joba as a starter than I do in Mitre as a starter?

– ECB

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I join you in those thoughts sir. I would be more inclined to have him pitch 8 to 10 games in AAA first though.

baseball33
4 years 7 months ago

I hate to admit it but as of right now with what we have to work with today- Joba to the fourth or fifth slot in the rotation might not be such a bad idea. Let him try and turn his career around. After all this kid was not supposed to be a relief pitcher he was supposed to be a starter. I know people are going to say he isn’t even good, he can’t be a starter again. To hell with all the negs out there. I think he could do it, he’s still young, he did pitch very well in the second half of the season, and I think he can be just as good as anyone else they could sign right now as a starter. However 8 or 10 games in AAA is not going to do anything for him. It will only make the transition harder for everyone.

baseball33
4 years 7 months ago

After all there is nothing that he could learn at this point in AAA that will make him a better pitcher. I think the most important thing is that if he wants to be a starter or not so he doesn’t feel like he getting jerked again. I personally think he would want to start but I could be wrong. I can’t imagine he really wants to be a relief pitcher.

Jason Klinger
4 years 7 months ago

I actually agree. Dollars to donuts says the Yankees stretch him out in spring training. He’s a much better option than anything out there right now, unless Cashman takes a flier on Chris Young.

$1519287
4 years 7 months ago

Am I the only one who has more confidence in Joba as a starter than I do in Mitre as a starter?

– ECB

4 years 7 months ago

You people whining about not getting Lee i`m glad your not my GM ! You complain they paid too much for Soriano when they really have no choice…Didnt matter when they signed him they were still having to pay top $$$..They needed to do something to shorten up games with that starting rotation they have…Dont believe Pettitte would`ve saved the Yankees either.He wont have another year like he did the 1st half of the season..Yanks need another back end started and bench player and they`ll be fine..AJ will not pitch like he did last season i`ll bet my house on that ! ESPN has everyone thinking Bostons pitching is out of this world and their going to run away with the AL East…Wont happen their rotation is no better than the Yankees is at this point.Bullpen..I give the edge to the Yankees…Going to be an interesting year in the AL East !

ellisburks
4 years 7 months ago

While the Red Sox have question marks in their rotation, it is way better than that of the Yankees. The Red Sox have Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K as the starting 5. While the last 3 might have questions surrounding them they are better than the Yankees back 3 of AJ, Nova and nobody. And it isn’t just the pitching that has Boston being the favourite to win the AL East it’s the lineup of:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Crawford
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Drew
Salty
Scutaro/Lowrie
that has them favourites. And even with all of the injuries the Red Sox had last season they were second in the majors in runs scored and then added two impact bats. Therefore, I would give the edge to the Red Sox.

As for the addition of Soriano, I hope for what they are paying him he can be a decent #5 starter on the days he isn’t relieving.

glook2
4 years 7 months ago

I’ll give you a slight edge with gonzo over tex and crawford over gardner (but not for the $), but at every other position the yanks have the edge.

ellisburks
4 years 7 months ago

Well you can take whatever you want but the Red Sox only got half years from Pedroia and Youk and nothing from Ellsbury or Cameron and down year from Drew. I don’t expect much from Drew or Cameron but the other three are bound to be better than the replacements the Red Sox had for them and as I said STILL were second in runs in the major leagues. Plus when you add in the very, very strong offense of the Red Sox with the superior pitching you have the AL East winners(on paper right now).

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I keep banging my head up agains a wall. The Sox made two great acquisitions in CC and AGonz. However, the deals were great not because either of the two will exceed the hitting provided by Beltre, VMart and Hall but because they are more projectable over the next 5 years than those two were. It’s likely that, with the exception of SB, they will only equal the production of what they got from Beltre, Vmart and Hall last year. The greater impact they will see is from having healthy guys for all of 2011.

But don’t count the Yankees lineup out either. They led baseball in runs scored by a +41 despite having off years from Arod, Jeter, Tex, Posada and Granderson. Subtract Thames from last year, move Posada to DH full time and add Martin, Montero and hopefully some bounce backs from a couple of those guys and we can have a stronger lineup this year.

ellisburks
4 years 7 months ago

As I said above, we may have only replaced the short-term offence with Crawford and A-Gon but you are forgetting full years from Pedroia, Ellsbury and Youkilis and maybe a new, better offensive year from Lowrie as the starting SS by the end of the year. The addition of their offense over the people who replaced them will be very big.

And I was no way putting down the Yankees offense, I mean the Red Sox finished second to the Yankees for goodness sake! And I have no doubt your offence will be as good if not a bit better with rebound years from your big guys. The main difference is the better pitching staff in general of the Red Sox due to the lack of established/reliable starters on the back end of the Yankees staff.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

How did I forget that when I said “The greater impact they will see is from having healthy guys for all of 2011″. I think healthy years from those injured in 2010 will have a greater impact than CC and AG will, aside from the SB differential.

ellisburks
4 years 7 months ago

Damnation. How did I miss that. Sorry! But I still think they are better upgrades than you give them credit for. But we could argue that forever.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

The SB improvement is an obvious advantage. However, if Agonz hits 40 hrs and CC hits 25 then they would equal what was lost from Beltre, VMart and Hall. The major advantage of CC and Agonz over Beltre, VMart and Hall is that Theo would’ve been stupid to assume that those three would’ve repeated their 2010 performance again in 2011 or after. That is the inte..intellig..(I can’t even get myself to say it)..that is what I give Theo credit for. He didn’t get suckered in to thinking that Beltre was going to be the same guy in 2011.

So aside from CC and Ells being healthy and running like rabbits, I’m much more concerned about Pedroai and Youks being healthy than I am of the new additions.

PS- I do think Theo is a very sharp GM.

Green_Monster
4 years 7 months ago

Thank you for that reasonable post, so the fighting can stop. Theo and Brian are both really good Gm’s, even though i’m a Red Sox fan, I like cashman better because of his experience and he is very good in the draft

slider32
4 years 7 months ago

Fangraphs War 2007-2010 has the Yanks better in 6 positions. Some are close but 3 are not. Martin over Salty, Jeter over Scuturo, and Granderson over Ellsbury. The Yanks scored the most runs last year so they are still better than the Sox. The pitching of the Yankees will be better than last year with AJ, Hughes, having better years and Nova being better than Vasquez. The Sox pitching should also be better than last year. It might come down to the relief which with the addition of Soriano would go to the Yanks.

4 years 7 months ago

You’re disturbingly optimistic, Not doubting the chance of an AJ bounce back but I wouldn’t dare count on it. after Starters 1 and 2 the Red Sox run away with it and they too have a very solid bullpen. Frankly in terms of the AL East this year I’ll give it to whoever stays healthiest.