Yankees Would Consider Joba-For-Starter Trade

The Yankees would consider swapping Joba Chamberlain, but "probably only" as part of a larger package for a "viable starter," tweets Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated.  Chamberlain's name was connected to trade rumors last summer, as teams like the Diamondbacks and Blue Jays were trying to "buy low" on Chamberlain, but there was never an indication that the Yankees were seriously considering moving the right-hander.

Chamberlain, 25, was rated as the third-best prospect in the sport by Baseball America before the 2008 season.  His star dimmed a bit after a shaky 2009 season in the New York rotation (4.75 ERA, 4.3 BB/9 rate, a league-leading 12 hit batters), but he pitched better out of the bullpen last season, posting a 4.40 ERA, a 2.8 BB/9 rate, and a 3.5 K/BB ratio.  Chamberlain is eligible for arbitration for the first time this winter and is under team control through the 2013 season.

Heyman says Chamberlain will remain a reliever for the Yankees "for now."  We heard last month that the club wasn't thinking of moving Chamberlain back to the rotation, but even if Chamberlain's role changed, there's no guarantee he would bring needed stability to the back end of the Bronx Bombers' rotation.  Moving Chamberlain would be a win-now move on New York's part, but given the team's fruitless pursuit of Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte's lean towards retirement, the Yankees may be so uncomfortable with their starting pitching that they feel dealing an asset like Chamberlain is necessary.


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255 Comments on "Yankees Would Consider Joba-For-Starter Trade"


Dave_Gershman
4 years 7 months ago

Wandy Rodriguez or Edwin Jackson come to mind.

Stl_Great
4 years 7 months ago

For Joba straight up?

Dave_Gershman
4 years 7 months ago

Why not?

4 years 7 months ago

Both are considerably better then him, it would have to be joba and a few prospects.

4 years 7 months ago

Wandy Rodriguez for Joba, Brandon Laird, and Jose Ramirez

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 7 months ago

way too much

Chuck Norris
4 years 7 months ago

Yea and the Bat Boys too , I say.

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

Maybe for both not straight up.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 7 months ago

You get 2 draft picks if you’re the Yanks and a 14.3 career WAR pitcher for a non proven hard thrower who is one season removed from a -20.2 wFB

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

Yankees are not too big on draft picks. The Philosphy being that they look to win now.
Jackson and Rodriguez, while they have a longer resume are not anything that resembles an upgrade over Joba.

4 years 7 months ago

I honestly can’t tell if that was a joke… Jackson and Rodriguez don’t even resemble an upgrade over Joba?

Two young starters who have both pitched 400+ innings in the past two years adding up to a 7.3 and 7.6 WAR, respectively?

I tend to think Joba is undervalued, but both of those guys are a huge upgrade and neither team would part with them for just Joba, I don’t think.

4 years 7 months ago

It has to be a joke, or dream. The rumors from a few months ago are finally confirmed and Joba is dealt to the Pirates for Paul MAHOLM. Now that would be an even trade.

azteccrawdaddy
4 years 7 months ago

Rodriguez is 31 and has put up some pretty solid FIPs over the past several seasons. Joba + B prospects for Wandy would be solid for NY.

BLB25
4 years 7 months ago

The Astros could do a lot better than that

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

The joke would be if the Yankees actually agreed to a trade such as that. They are two starters that aside from Jackson, have accomplished very little.

Wandy Rodriguez is 31 yrs old,has 6 yrs of service, has a losing lifetime record. I know that W-L record is longer en vogue and ERA is a throwaway stat as well, but WAR is not the all encompassing stat everyone thinks it is. Rodriguez’s WHIP is 1.352, he gives up 8.9 hits per 9 innings, just about a hit per inning. 1 HR per game, and 7.7 SO/9.
all for a paltry $5MM

Edwin Jackson is 26 yrs old, has 8yrs of service , also has a lifetime losing record, his WHIP is 1.485, gives up 9.5 hits per game, 1 HR per game and has 6.7 KO’s per game. Has a no-hitter to his name as well as the distiction of having played for 5 different organizations in his 8 yrs in the majors.I guess lots of teams like quality, huh?He’s making $8MM per yr.

Joba Chamberlain is 24 yrs old, has 4 yrs of service, has a lifetime winning record, WHIP is 1.358 gives up 8.6 hits/9, .08 HRs/9 KO’s 9.2/9 makes $500K per yr. Is ARB eligible this yr.

You really think these two NL never were’s are an upgrade over a young and still growing Chamberlain?

4 years 7 months ago

I think it’s pretty clear that both Wandy and Edwin are more proven than Mitre and Nova, who seem to be the #4 and #5 guys to get thrown out there. Hell, I’d say Wandy and Edwin are both better than where AJ Burnett seems to be. With Pettite saying he won’t be in the Opening Day rotation, that puts the Yanks at CC, Hughes, Burnett, ?, and ?.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

…and he’s more or less sucked for two straight years.

Joba may turn out to be serviceable, but right now he’s a dime-a-dozen middle-reliever. He doesn’t have much trade value. To get a serviceable starter (which Rodriguez and Jackson has both proved to be), a straight-up deal isn’t going to work.

P_O_R_Q_U_E
4 years 7 months ago

This. It’s like saying “Cubs willing to trade Colvin for viable center fielder.” You can’t just take your unrealized former prospects and trade up.

4 years 7 months ago

Well honestly you’re spinning a lot of stats. W-L record means absolutely nothing at all, especially for someone like Wandy who’s been playing for a crap team like Houston.

You’re also looking at career numbers, which doesn’t do Wandy and Edwin justice because only in the past couple years have they developed into their potential. I realize that’s picking out specific years, but both of them have posted good to very good numbers in the past 3 years with a substantial number of innings.

You’re not posting any of the good numbers, such as Wandy’s 8.5 K/9 in the past 3 years, a HR/9 < 1 and a strong ground ball rate, which do much to make up for the walks. And I can't tell if you understand what a good H/9 is, because 8.9 really isn't bad at all. Some select H/inning from 2010: Josh Johnson (0.85), Roy Halladay (0.92), Johan Santana (0.90), Chris Carpenter (0.91). I could easily go on, maybe with some guys that aren't quite the studs those guys are: Liriano (0.96), Gallardo (0.96), Dan Haren (1.04)… my point not being that he's as good as any of these guys, but I think you're just referencing that number because it "sounds bad" to have a hit per inning. His 0.98/inning (0.95 in the last 3 years) isn't the end of the world given his other abilities (which is reflected in his FIPs and WAR).

Edwin Jackson's advantage is that he's younger, but I don't think there's any doubt Wandy is superior in pretty much all aspects. Yeah, good players never get traded a lot… Cliff Lee must be a total bum having been on 4 teams in the past 3 years.

So your justification for Chamberlain being better is that he's younger (fair), has a winning record (with the Yankees and mostly as a reliever… so no credit to him at all), has a worse WHIP than Wandy, has a slightly better K and hit rate (which is much, much easier as a reliever) and is cheaper (possibly fair, although neither $5M nor $8M means a damn thing to the Yankees, especially with how much money they have to spare right now).

Do I really think these two "now-are's" are an upgrade over Chamberlain? Absolutely. Not a doubt in my mind, and not a doubt in my mind that Cashman and the other GMs see it that way. Until Chamberlain can prove he can handle the rotation, he's either a gamble (which isn't worth a solid starter) or a good reliever.

BLB25
4 years 7 months ago

Yes, Joba is also only proven in any way as a middle reliever which is far less valuable than starting pitchers like Jackson and Rodriguez.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 7 months ago

Only the fact that they are quality starters who you know what they’ll
provide. Come on man.

Sd_brain
4 years 7 months ago

Blanton for joba (both teams add prospects)?

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

Only if the Phillies took about 95% of his salary.

Sd_brain
4 years 7 months ago

Of course they have to eat some of his salary and depending on how much they eat thats how they decide which prospects are added. The prospects come in to offset last seasons bad performances from both and uncertainty for this season, and of course Blantons contract.

Wek
4 years 7 months ago

Then only the Phillies would have to add in prospects, not both.

Sd_brain
4 years 7 months ago

True, but if I were the Phils i would want a propect in return just in case joba flops (so its not a complete loss). Obviously the Yanks would get the better prospect while they would give a prospect of lower value. BUT the prospects I’m talking about shouldn’t be top guys. My proposal is just a thought, obviously none of us have a say in this.,

Wek
4 years 7 months ago

Then you will not get a deal. Dealing Blanton and his fat contract while still getting a young serviceable reliever should be the number one priority. I’ll be just happy to get rid of Blanton even if I don’t get anything in return other than salary relief. Asking for more than that is just crazy, unless you plan to eat 85% of Blanton’s contract.

Sd_brain
4 years 7 months ago

To tell you the truth I really dont care what happens to joba in the end. My comment was just a thought I thought I’d share.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

You guys are seriously over-valuing Joba. 24 is one thing; 24 and coming off two straight crap seasons is something else.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

I’m not over-valuing Joba at all. Seems to me people are over-valuing Joe Blanton and are unaware that for an average at best pitcher, he makes a boat load of money, and his WAR as a starter has barely been above Joba’s war as a reliever the past 2 years. Both of them, at best right now, are average pitchers.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

Exactly, and to think the Phils would have to pay 95% of a league-average STARTER’s salary to get a league-average RELIEVER is folly.

As for overpaid, he probably is a little but it’s not nearly as egregious as some think. The general consensus value of 1 WAR on the FA market is around $3.9-4.5m right now…FG puts his value for last season at $7.5m.

Look at the SP’s that have signed this offseason. Garland got $5m after putting up less than half Blanton’s WAR despite playing in Pitcher Heaven last season. Harang got $4m despite half of Blanton’s WAR. Westbrook got basically Blanton’s contract despite not even playing in ’09. Vazquez got $7m coming off a season of NEGATIVE WAR.

Like it or not, this is what an average MLB starter costs these days.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 7 months ago

and threw in a top prospect

4 years 7 months ago

Yea, I don’t think so at all. Blanton is relatively fairly priced. Joba goes to arbitration this year and will likely get a bump in pay that will kill his value. I think Blanton for Joba straight up is fairer than you think.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

I never said it wasn’t a fair trade straight up. And I admit I’m wrong about Blantons salary, I thought he was making double digits at around $12 million but his is $9 mil, but I still feel the Phillies should eat a lot of that salary. Blanton is an average at best, of course Joba is too, I don’t know how much Joba is making in 2011 but he’s made minimum wage every year and I also don’t know how much the bump in pay goes to for Joba.

4 years 7 months ago

Yanks get a bona-fide, although flawed MLB starter, and the Phils get a guy who may have reached his ceiling as a middle inning or possibly set up, young guy with the benefit of salary control.

I think that’s about fair. If I’m either side, I think about pulling that trigger.

4 years 7 months ago

Depends on the prospects. That said, Blanton’s done much more than Joba so far, and would be an upgrade over Burnett.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

There’s no reason to think Blanton would do any better than AJ. The only thing he has over him is he’s a lefty with slightly better control.

Blanton vs AJ

6.9 K/9 vs 6.9 K/9
11.9 to 11.6 HR/FB
42 to 49 GB%
2.16 to 3.76 BB/9

Pluses for Blanton: Better control and is a lefty.
Pluses for AJ: Better stuff w/ bigger upside.

The contracts don’t matter since you’re proposing a trade to the Yanks w/ AJ remaining.

Snoochies8
4 years 7 months ago

Last time i watched blanton on the a’s he was throwing right handed…did he switch with the phillies?

Ben_Cherington
4 years 7 months ago

WTF!? do watch other players other than yankess? Blanton is a righty and judging by the way you posted it doesnt look like a mistake

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

You haven’t be playing close attemtion have you? Blanton has become ambidexterious since coming to Philly in order to stay in the rotation.

Catztradamus
4 years 7 months ago

You aren’t looking for someone to do better than AJ. you’re looking for someone who can be better than Mitre or Nova. Blanton has post season experience, has been a solid dependable guy and compared to the other options out there, would be an upgrade in the 4 slot for the yankees.

Joba for Blanton and a mid grade prospect and the phis give NY 4 million bucks. Thats a fair deal.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

Better than Mitre, not necessarily better than Nova, considering Nova will be in the rotation next year so it don’t matter really of who pitches better between Nova and Blanton.

If I may ask, why include the mid grade prospect. Why not just straight up, with teh Phillies eating some/most of Blantons salary?

Catztradamus
4 years 7 months ago

Because eating MOST of Blantons salary is counterproductive to moving him. Name a BETTER number 5 starter in Baseball than Joe Blanton. The only reason you trade him is if you have a better/cheaper option than him. Eating most of his salary doesn’t necessarily give you either.

The Phils BLANTON-IORITY as follows:

1) Dump him and his salary for a bag of balls, to free up the cash to make other moves, and let Kendrick/Worley fight for the fifth spot.
2) dump him and eat 25% of his salary for something decent in return
3) keep him till the trade deadline, when someone is desperate/or as an insurance policy shoud one of the PHOUR get hurt.
4)Keep him around all season and try and move him in the offseason, or wait and see what Oswalt does after this year.
5)) get a great return and eat 50-75% of his salary.

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

You need to define ‘quality’. What I know for certain is that Rodriguez will get lit up in the AL east and Jackson has been previously.

PS read my post to Matthew T. That applies to your earlier post as well.

4 years 7 months ago

Yankees fans are the only ones that think this makes sense. Not only is Joba hugely overrated in NY, no one wil lever trade a starter for a reliever the influence a reliever is minor compared to a starter. Yankees fans just think that they are gonna get whatever they want its hilarious.

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

Granted that many Yankees are overrated including Joba, but that shouldn’t be a reason to trade for mediocre players in return. I prefer to keep Chamberlain with his poor performance, his still present up-side and modest cost. Make him a starter over one of two, older starters with unimpressive histories.

METfan201
4 years 7 months ago

I agree SPAN . Only names that would come to mind or Paul Malholm

BillB325
4 years 7 months ago

Gorzallaney or Wells(along with a prospect of course) come to mind as well.

leeotis333
4 years 7 months ago

If you’re going to be unrealistic, why not go all the way and suggest Lincecum?

Dave_Gershman
4 years 7 months ago

Explain to me how Wandy Rodriguez for Joba is that unrealistic?

BLB25
4 years 7 months ago

Wandy Rodriguez is a very good starting pitcher. Joba is a decent middle reliever who failed as a starter.

leeotis333
4 years 7 months ago

If you need it explained, it can’t be done.

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

what did he say that was unrealistic? Sorry to burst your bubble but Joba isn’t an elite prospect or carry a ton of trade value.

P_O_R_Q_U_E
4 years 7 months ago

Joba for Yovanni Gallardo. The Brewers would probably have to throw in Greinke and Marcum as well. Do it because the Yankees say so.

invader3k
4 years 7 months ago

I was waiting for someone to post something like this. Because as all Yankees fans know, teams like the Brewers only exist to be glorified feeder teams.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

Why not move Joba back to the rotation, and put Mitre in long relief role? Maybe I’m one of the last fans that still believes in Joba…

4 years 7 months ago

because we don’t like logical arguments ’round these parts

zonis
4 years 7 months ago

Because Joba is not that good? Yankee prospects get hyped too much?

yg49
4 years 7 months ago

He is better than Mitre…and at this point, that is all he would have to be.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

It wasn’t hype when he broke through. The dude was just flat out filthy.

Since then … he leaves a lot to be desired.

The real question is what the heck happened to him? How could he be so electric and so dominant and then a few years later a 6th inning bullpen option?

4 years 7 months ago

I think a lot of it has to do with dumb luck. In 2010, he averaged 9.67 K/9 and 2.76 BB/9, which are both excellent. He also had a 2.98 FIP, which is also very good. Unfortunately, he had a left-on-base percentage of only 66.6%; if that number were closer to mid 70s, he probably would have had a much better ERA. I’d put him back in the rotation.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

And maybe you’re a little biased and don’t bother to look at facts? I can offer three categorical reasons why Joba Chamberlain would be a fascinating pitcher to at least 15 mlb teams.

Age, peripherals and playing condition.

a) He’s only 25 years old.
-He was rushed thru the Yanks system by making his professional debut and major lge debut all in the same year only pitching 90 innings in A, AA, AAA before being called up in Sept.
-Despite his young age, he already has 350+ innings under his belt.

b) Peripherals as a starter @ ages 23 & 24 w/ little minor leage seasoning:

43 starts-4.18 ERA, 221 IP, 8.4 K/9, 4 BB/9, 1.48 whip, 4.27 FIP

In comparison, among all AL starters in 2008-2009 w/ at least 200 IP he ranks ahead of Gavin FLoyd, Dice-K, Scott Kazmir, Nick Blackburn, Edwin Jackson and Fausto Carmona (he also ranks ahead of Francscio Liriano but I recognize he was recovering from arm surgery and left him off the list).

-He obviously needs to work on his control. He obviously plays up better as a relief pitcher.

-He has a solid mix of for pitches which he use to varying degrees but because he was sent to the pen AND rushed to the majors he hasn’t had as much time to develop them. He throws (avg velocity/% used) a FB (94 mph/66%), Slider (87 mph/26%), Curve (78 mph/8%) and a Change (82 mph/3%).

c) Playing conditions- He plays in a tough division in a hitter friendly park which is tough on flyball pitchers.

Career home (starter and reliver): 188 IP w/ a 4.26 ERA and 1.42 whip
Career road ” ” ” ” : 165 IP w/ a 3.21 ERA and a 1.28 whip

My conclusion: At worst he can be a solid #4 or #5 in the AL East as a starter (if healthy). For a NL team or pitching in a bigger park he can be a solid #3 and possible front of rotation pitcher for the M’s, A’s, Tigers, ROyals, Marlins, Padres, Pirates, Mets, etc if given a little patience.

It would be insane for the Yanks to trade him now because they would be selling low and unless it were a salary dump where it was a one for one in exchange for a solid #3 or better then it shouldn’t be done.

On 25 out of 30 other teams he would be in someone’s rotation.

As for the NY “hype” factor. Yes, Yankee fans overhype their own. However, Baseball America, John Sickles and all the other “experts” could careless where a prospect comes from, and I might even go so far to say that the NY overhype HURTS the perception of most prospects OUSTIDE the NY metro area because it is ASSUMED that there’s more hype than talent involved.

4 years 7 months ago

He wouldn’t make the A’s starting rotation, let alone be a front of the rotation starter.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

You forgot to add he hasn’t been league-average in two seasons.

I’ll say it again: 24 with talent is one thing, 24 with talent coming off two straight sub-par seasons (one where he couldn’t even reach league-avg as a middle reliever) is something else.

As for the NY overhype hurting a prospect’s perception outside NY: you’ve got to be kidding. Most believe what they read, and Joba was the toast of the friggin league in ’08/’09.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

This site has had problems posting replys in the right place. I responded to your post. Look at Joba’s 2007 minor lge debut and his Sept call up. The guys was a beast and it was all facts and no hype bro.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

I didn’t phrase that well. I wasn’t saying Joba got undeserved hype – he was sick in ’08, the hype was warranted. I was trying to say that a NYY/BOS prospect isn’t going to be looked down upon JUST because they from those teams, and the hype machine.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

To be fair, no prospect is going to be looked down upon if he puts up those numbers/performance once in his young career. It’s like, the scouts and front of office people get enamored by what he once was, and believe they can get him back to that level, regardless of prospect.

It’s not just the Yanks/Sox. Look at the D-Train. Everybody knew Willis was done, yet people continued to take a chance on him because they remembered how dominant he once was. It happens with almost everybody, man.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

Err, I didn’t read that properly, sorry. I guess tack that reply to your earlier post?

On topic, Yanksfan is saying that sometimes, because people know that the guys coming out from the Yanks/Sox farm are so often overhyped, even if a player is good, people will brush it off to the hype machine, and not evaluated talent. It’s not that far of a stretch…

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

Err, I didn’t read that properly, sorry. I guess tack that reply to your earlier post?

On topic, Yanksfan is saying that sometimes, because people know that the guys coming out from the Yanks/Sox farm are so often overhyped, even if a player is good, people will brush it off to the hype machine, and not evaluated talent. It’s not that far of a stretch…

4 years 7 months ago

You are probably the last one who believes in him. I don’t know what happened to him in his time as a starter, or of it was something to do with his dad almost dying or his mom being crazy, but something did happen over the last two seasons and he’s just not the same guy he was coming up. Maybe he can get back it, maybe he can’t. I think KC would be a good landing spot for him in a trade. Close to home, less constant pressure and media attention. He seemed to crawl into a shell once he got a little criticism after so much crazily positive attention. Don’t think the Yankees and Royals make good trading partners right now though since the Soriano signing.

Catztradamus
4 years 7 months ago

that would make too much sense. Especially since the yankees might have the best bullpen in baseball now, and really can get by with two or three starters who only give them five innings per a week.

Think about it. you’ve got Robertson, Marte, Feliciano, Soriano, AND Rivera. thats one hell of a pen.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

That is one hell of a pen! Joba in the pen gets relegated to mop up/long relief, the same role Gaudin/Mitre have played for us in the past.

A counter point to my argument could easily be that the Yankees don’t want to take a PR hit by trying to move Joba back into the rotation. You know talk radio and fan blogs will have a field day taking shots at Yankees brass/mgmt about how they’re destroying Joba blahblahblah. While I agreed with the banter in the past, I actually think it’s become a necessity to move Joba back into the rotation now.

We’ll see what happens.

Catztradamus
4 years 7 months ago

At this point you almost HAVE to give him a shot in the rotation, or you have to trade him. He’s not a sixth inning guy for sure. I think Joba would greatly benefit from new surroundings, a ne4w pitching coach, an organiztion that won’t baby him, and the lack of the constant NY microscope in his face.

Believe this. If he gets mvoed he’ll have the best year of his career in 2011.

4 years 7 months ago

Yankees should stay young…. Clayton Richard may work… or Mat Latos?

tigers22
4 years 7 months ago

Not a chance the Padres will part with Latos

4 years 7 months ago

MAT LATOS? LOLALOLA. yeah you have some wishful thinking going on there.

4 years 7 months ago

Yankees arent young and havent been for awhile. also, why would SD do that trade? Latos and Richard are HUGE parts of their future.

4 years 7 months ago

put jesus montero, joba and another guy or two might got one of em

Guest
4 years 7 months ago

Ummm..Latos is a very good SPer that pitches in the grand canyon that is SD. I do not think his numbers would be so dominant after a year in the American League Beast…..

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

than you need a facts check

away ERA: 3.14

.217 Avg Against at home, .218 avg against on the road.

still dominant. Maybe not quite as much but still worth head and shoulders more than Joba. Oh yeah, he is also 23, younger than Joba.

4 years 7 months ago

A possible all star, a middle reliever, and some over hyped yankees prospect would get you a young cost controlled ace?

4 years 7 months ago

Unlikely.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I agree that the Padres would not be interested in trading either Latos or Richards or any other young pitcher. That’s not their “MO”.

I disagree w/ someone below that Montero and Joba wouldn’t at least be serious consideration for Latos however. Pads need offense and despite trading for Rizzo, Montero profiles to be an elite hitter and he could be an all-star at 1B even though his defense may be no better than say….Fielder or Howard.

As for the youth issue, for the record, CC is about 30 and aside from AJ every other pitcher so far is in their mid 20’s (assuming the Yanks go with a kid over Mitre). In the lineup, aside from Jeter, Arod , MO and Posada (who is in his last year) everyone else (Tex, Cano, Gardner, Swisher, Grandy, Martin, Montero, Cervelli, Robertson, Joba, Soriano, Mitre) are all under 30-31.

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

i doubt you get Latos even if you added Montero.

azteccrawdaddy
4 years 7 months ago

The Friars have no reason to trade him anyway.

Sd_brain
4 years 7 months ago

we have no need for joba(especially at that price), but the idea of joba at petco is intriguing.

4 years 7 months ago

Would you take Joba, Montero, Brett Gardner, and a minor league pitcher with solid upside?

MetsEventually
4 years 7 months ago

What? overrated reliever for an ace and a upcoming no.2? Outta your mind.

azteccrawdaddy
4 years 7 months ago

Richard’s not bad but the Yanks would want a better starter than that, and Latos isn’t going anywhere for several years at least.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

The Yanks would have to empty the farm to get Latos.

4 years 7 months ago

joba for jackson. make it happen KW.

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

and why would the white sox, a contending team in win now mode, trade there #3 starter? The draft pick(or 2) they would get for Jackson at the end of the season are worth more than Joba….

coldgoldenfalstaff
4 years 7 months ago

Easy. Jackson is a FA next offseason and is overpayed at $8.75 this year.

No way will Kenny Williams play ball with Boras for Jackson in 2012.

If the Sox can get another pitching prospect, I could see them doing that, considering Sale can step in either in the rotation or pen.

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

doesn’t matter if he is sort of overpaid or not, that doesn’t change the idea that they are in win now mode and would be very foolish to trade there #3 starter. If he is a free agent(which i knew), than that is draft picks(which i already said) and the picks are worth more at this point than Joba. Not sure if Jax is a type A or B though.

4 years 7 months ago

I actually would love it from a Sox fan’s perspective. It gives KW flexibility at the deadline, and Don Cooper is as good as any pitching coach in baseball. He tends to take prospects who turned into garbage (e.g. Gavin Floyd) and make them very solid starters.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

Oh what planet do you live that 8.75m is overpaid for a #3 starter?

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

$8.75 million is not a lot of money for a pitcher with a career ERA+ of 99? And it don’t matter what spot in the order he’d be. A rotation order is not set by highest contract to lowest contract. It would be a toss up between 3 or 4 with AJ and Blanton.

Nontheless, I tihnk the Yankees would be better off getting Justin Duchscherer for a few million than trading Joba for Blanton

4 years 7 months ago

Jackson was worth 3.8 WAR in 2010 and 3.5 WAR in 2009. Assuming $5 million per win, which is pretty safe right now, he was actually underpaid. By a lot. If he puts up another 3+ WAR season, the White Sox will be getting essentially a 50% discount.

4 years 7 months ago

Yeah I’m pretty sure you can do better than Joba if you’re trading Jackson… contenders don’t trade starters with rotation spots for relievers.

I don’t think you’d have to give up a ton for Jackson, but probably more than that.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I think it’s a given that any team interested would be thinking of using him as a starter first and a reliever only if he proves he can’t handle it.

4 years 7 months ago

But just because you want to try him as a starter doesn’t mean you’re really trading for one. You’re trading for a reliever and a gamble.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I’m not advocating that he would net a starter in a one for one trade. I know it would probably take more than that unless it was for a huge salary dump like Zambrano. All I’m saying is that most teams interested in him would probably want to use him as a starter.

The one clear bias that I am hearing is that he can’t be a starter. Think what you want but there is ZERO evidence that he couldn’t succeed. Look at his age, look at his peripherals as a starter in 2008-2009 and what you see is a then 22-23 yo pitcher with a 4.27 FIP in the AL EAST that has shown the ability to strike batters out who simply needs a 3rd pitch to be at least average inorder to be a likely productive starter. When he came into the lge he had 4 pitches. As a reliever he mainly used two of them.

4 years 7 months ago

Alright, we’re pretty much on the same wavelength then. I agree that Chamberlain could have some degree of success as a starter, but he needs to show that before he’s going to net a solid starter in a 1-for-1.

I was just saying that teams (especially contending ones) are extremely unlikely to give up a starter in their rotation for a player they know can be a good reliever and might be a decent starter. It just doesn’t add up.

Scott G
4 years 7 months ago

Why not just make Joba a SP? Hello.

MetsEventually
4 years 7 months ago

Because he’s a better reliever than a starter. That isn’t saying much thugh.

DK57
4 years 7 months ago

well that certainly didn’t work when they tried…

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Ummm…yes it did or at least it was inconclusive. He had a freakin’ 4.27 as a 23-24 yo starter who was shuttled back and forth and given inconsistant starts. They were impatient with him and weren’t going to have both Joba and Hughes in the 2010 rotation.

4 years 7 months ago

Wouldnt put Laird in a deal for him though

4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, that sounds perfect.

Oh wait, it’s January 2011 when no available starters are worth trading for, and not January-July 2010, when they could have nabbed someone better for Joba+. Like, say, Dan Haren.

BK
4 years 7 months ago

LOL!

BK
4 years 7 months ago

Kazmir + Angels pay Full Salary for Joba?

$1529282
4 years 7 months ago

There is literally nothing left in Kazmir’s tank. No way.

cookmeister
4 years 7 months ago

if they are going to pay full salary might as well keep him… i still have hope Kazmir will turn it around somewhat and put up decent numbers *crossing fingers*

baseball33
4 years 7 months ago

Kazmir’s done. He was done when Tampa traded him. I wouldn’t want him on the Yankee roster. If I’m wrong about him and he pitches well in the future I’ll admit I’m wrong and eat my words

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

I’d want him on the Yankees roster. Although I am a Sox fan…

Philip Marlowe
4 years 7 months ago

Joba to the Cubs for Gorzelanny?

BillB325
4 years 7 months ago

A little lop-sided, um Wells and maybe a low level prospect for him?

Guest
4 years 7 months ago

I do it. Gorzo for Joba in a heartbeat.

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

This is 2011 Joba, not 2009 Joba. He’s been a below-avg middle reliever for nearly 2 seasons now.

Vivid_Reality
4 years 7 months ago

I was thinking Demps and Gorz (Cubs eat half owed) for Joba, two plus prospects, and a mid level.

gcheezpuff
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t think Demp would agree to a trade and I wouldn’t want him to, he’s been solid for the Cubs and I actually expect an extension for him. As for Gorzelanny, although most Yank fans won’t agree, I’m guessing a pitcher of Gorz quality is about what Joba would bring back. Gorz is a descent 4 and he is a lefty, while Joba’s value has significantly diminished. I actually don’t like the deal for the Cubs as they have a nice looking pen now and plenty of young arms that project as future SP. I’d rather see them deal Gorz in a package for a 2nd baseman that hits leadoff or just get back a handful of prospects. Gorz is underrated, hopefully the Cubs will get value back.

Vivid_Reality
4 years 7 months ago

You kind of touch on things that make my reasoning for that trade. Let me just start by saying I really like Demps. He is a class act and always puts forward a great effort. Trading him would hurt but like you said, the Cubs have plenty of young arms. I would rather have Z and Garza (wasnt happy about the Garza trade btw) take the first two, Cashner take three, then have Wells – Coleman – Shark – Joba battle for the last two. Cashner can be just as effective as Demps this year imo and we would save like 10m a year for the next 2. It a win win in my book but I’m just spinning thoughts here.

gcheezpuff
4 years 7 months ago

I get your reasoning, but with Dempster being the most reliable SP on the Cubs and his open love for the organization and desire to remain with the team, I can’t see Hendry even approaching the idea of a trade. I’d really like to see Cashner starting this year so 1 if not 2 of Silva, Wells, Garzelanny need to be moved. Gorz seems to be the one Hendry is shopping, mostly based on the fact that he is probably the easiest to move, but as a lefty, he actually makes the most sense to keep. I keep on checking the headlines because I really don’t know what his trade value is. The other day when I read they signed Reed Johnson, I was positive it was a precurser to an outfielder (F-bonb) being moved, but still no news on that front either. That being said, I think Hendry may still have one big move left in him. Despite the fact that everyone thinks the Cubs should be rebuilding, he seems to be trying to contend.

disgustedcubfan
4 years 7 months ago

I’m not sure, but I think Dempster has a 14 million dollar player option at the end of his con tract. I’d love to move that over to the Yankees.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Wouldn’t do that trade at all. Neither of them are worth two plus prospects on their own.

4 years 7 months ago

Jered Weaver for joba+ jesus montero?

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

i doubt Angels are in sell mode, and i would expect a near grienke-esque return for Weaver. This doesn’t qualify as that IMO.

BK
4 years 7 months ago

Jered Weaver is a young ace. That trade is awful. Joba, Montero, Banuelos, Laird and a B level prospect my not even be enough. I wouldnt do weaver for cano and joba.

4 years 7 months ago

The Yankees wouldn’t do Cano and Joba for Weaver, either, so you have company. They wouldn’t do Cano for Weaver straight up.

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

yeah but two things:

1) He is a free agent after 2 seasons
2) boras

Cano and Joba is probably a tad overpay.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

And you are absurd? Did you even bother to look at what Greinke, Haren, Halladay and Lee got in trades recently? In a pitchers vs position player comparison Cano is at least equal to Weaver.

I agree that elite starting pitcher are a rare commodity but their have been enough precedent set to say that proposal is crazy.

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

You sound like Arte Moreno

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

No way the Yanks trade Cano. He’s the best hitter on the team.

4 years 7 months ago

why would they ever trade Robinson Cano? That doesn’t even make sense. Cano is one of the best players in baseball why would they trade him for jered weaver?

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

The Angels already have a catcher who can mash … and they hate him. By all accounts Montero would be a defensive downgrade from Napoli. They also have top rated prospect Hank Conger ready to start his ML career.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

I seriously doubt the Angles would do that. He is perhaps their best pitcher and they’ve saved enough money to afford extending him even if he is a Boras client.

4 years 7 months ago

Sounds good but Angels would prob want a bat in the deal

monster55
4 years 7 months ago

Did you just respond to yourself?

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

Just goes to show how small your window of opportunity to prove yourself really is coming up from the Yankees farm.

Mikey94z28
4 years 7 months ago

Take Lohse please.

4 years 7 months ago

seriously doubt thtll happen

Mikey94z28
4 years 7 months ago

As do I but i can dream dammit

DK57
4 years 7 months ago

God yes! We’ll even throw in McClellan! 9;

$1545094
4 years 7 months ago

Joba does not have the value he used to have. he is a relief pitcher, and not even really that great at that. 4.40 ERA as RP in 2010 and 4.75 ERA as SP in 2009.
still cheap and team controlled so maybe there is a small market team that would give up a SP that is making more $$, but I would not expect an all star caliber pitcher in return.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

Understatement of the century.

Wek
4 years 7 months ago

Or that nasty 2.60 ERA in 2008, right?

$1545094
4 years 7 months ago

what have you done for me lately. he would get much more value based on what he has done the last 2 season than what he did in 2008. a full season as a starter and a full season as a reliever.

Wek
4 years 7 months ago

You are cherry picking. And ERA is not the greatest way to evaluate a player.
In 2010, his full season as a reliever, Joba was tied for the 24th in WAR out of 134 qualified relievers.

$1545094
4 years 7 months ago

WAR isn’t all that matters either.
2010 as a reliever, he gave up 71 hits in 71.2 IP. .253 BAA. in 2009 as a starter he gave up more H than IP with 167 in 157.1 IP. .274 BAA. in 2010 as a reliever he had 1.30 WHIP. in 2009 as a starter he had 1.54 WHIP. average/below average numbers.
“maybe” he could end up being s closer somewhere, but right now he has more career blown saves than he does saves.
every team in baseball likely has a reliever similar to Joba, but because he is on the Yankees he gets rated so high.
at one point he was a top prospect, but there are a lot of top prospects that don’t turn out to be good/great.
he is still only 25 so there is still time for him to improve, but right now Joba is overrated.

bonestock94
4 years 7 months ago

You’re not wrong, but his peripherals + FIP were pretty good last year.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

2.28 FIP in 2010. 4.27 FIP as a 23-24 yo starter in 2008-2009. Good pitching coach and a good ball park with a good defense can do wonders for a guy.

If GMs are only looking at superficial numbers and not the potential of a 25 yo pitcher w/ gas and 300+ innings of experience then Cashman shouldn’t even bother.

4 years 7 months ago

they could even put ramerio pena in a deal too but yanks prob wont do tht

David McCutcheon
4 years 7 months ago

Say whaaat? They want to trade a marginal reliever with a league average ERA for a starter? No crap, Sherlock.

StanleyPujols
4 years 7 months ago

Kyle Lohse for Joba! or how about Kyle Lohse to the Yankees and they can keep Joba! Lohse for saaaaaaaaaaale!!!!! anybody want a free Lohse?! only a paltry $23,750,000 left on the final 2 years of his deal! Get him while he’s hot!

4 years 7 months ago

Lol Joba was and is overated, and how are they considering him an asset? He’s 25 hasnt done much in the ML and isnt young enough to be considered a “prospect” any more. Dude sucks

Fangaffes
4 years 7 months ago

Whaddya mean? Just check out the reports from 2008. This man is a first ballot Hall of Famer!

YanksFanSince78
4 years 7 months ago

Same exact age as Wade Davis and David Price. Has a career FIP better than Davis and only .40 higher than Price.

okbluejays
4 years 7 months ago

What about Joba’s line in his only full year as a starter? How about you give us those numbers. Like I said, perhaps he has always been more suited for a bullpen role instead of as a starter. Joba as a reliever has a lot less value than Joba as a Starter, that’s for sure.

4 years 7 months ago

Lol you do realize that Davis and Price are about 50X better then Joba right?

Muggi
4 years 7 months ago

…except they throw 6ish innings a game, and Joba throws 1. When he threw more, he gassed out.

His numbers from ’08 are meaningless. Joba, at this point, is a guy who can go 3-4 innings and usually give league-average production. His only plus, trade-wise, is his age.

monkeyspanked
4 years 7 months ago

I like how the Yanks think Joba is worth a starter. If he wasn’t a Yankee, nobody would even hardly know who he is. Just because he wears pinstripes, I guess he’s premium. Same thing happened with Melky Cabrera. People were tricked into thinking he was good too. Once on another team, (Braves) he sucked. Same would happen with Joba.

kcmike11
4 years 7 months ago

Joba for Gil Meche and Sean O’Sullivan. Come on Royals make this happen.

4 years 7 months ago

Luke Hochevar and O’Sullivan would make more sence to me considering Hochevar has been relitivly better than Meche