AL East Notes: Red Sox, Showalter, Sabathia

Among AL East clubs, only the Yankees will play on the season's first day Thursday.  Here's the latest from the division…


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84 Comments on "AL East Notes: Red Sox, Showalter, Sabathia"


Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

Showalter’s comments really irk me.. he mocks the red sox and yankees for spending more money and calls out another team’s gm, meanwhile there is another team in his division who is competitive and won the division last year that spends LESS money than the O’s.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

You left out the parts where he used to manage a team with the highest salary (and couldn’t win) and screamed that Jeter was never called on inside pitches despite that ESPN proved that he actually gets called more than average.

He’s a hypocrite trying to make himself more important than he is.

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

I loved the part when he was like, thats why we loved beat teams like that..

LOL okay, you’ve come in last how many years in a row now?

rzepczynski
4 years 5 months ago

about half of a year, in which they went like 35-20 or something

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

when it stopped mattering, people stopped taking the O’s seriously and played accordingly.

Your a Jays fan, you should know how a strong finish to the season means nothing going in to the following season.

4 years 5 months ago

Deleted – thought he was hired on Jun 30 but it was July 30!

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

Well remember, the yanks and Diamondbacks did make the World Series… wait, that was after he was fired. And the Rangers did make it to the World Series… under his predecessor.

4 years 5 months ago

He’s stated several times that he was saying it in more of a joking manner while bull shi**ing with a reporter. I love the attitude though. It’s like the Rays a few years ago, “Us against the world!”

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

except the rays we’re a good baseball team

4 years 5 months ago

Find me an article that said they were going to do anything before that season. They had about as much optimism from the press as the O’s do. In hindsight it was obvious. That’s the beauty of this game, anything can happen.

JerseyJohn32190
4 years 5 months ago

I tried posting a link, but PECOTA predicted the 2008 Rays would win 88 games. Just google “2008 Rays pecota” and look at the first couple links. There was considerably more talent and hype on that team than there is for the O’s this year.

notsureifsrs
4 years 5 months ago

oh no! a factsaster!

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

considerably is an understatement.

4 years 5 months ago

Eh PECOTA predicts 82 for the O’s this year. Guess those 6 games are a HUGE difference.

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

they are.. 88 challenges for Wild card, 82 is fighting for 4th place.

What are you new here?

JerseyJohn32190
4 years 5 months ago

Take a look at last years standings. 6 games is the difference between the Yankees and Red Sox, Twins and White Sox, and Phillies and Braves. I would say 6 games is a big difference.

4 years 5 months ago

I meant more in the aspect of projections. The Rays finished with 97 wins vs projected 88. Are the O’s gonna win 91? Very doubtful. I’m just hoping for .500 and building off of that.

wutangklanodb
4 years 5 months ago

Exactly and you need a manager that has an attitude with a young talented team like the O’s. As a Rays fan you could see a change in the culture when Maddon got there and you are starting to see it in Baltimore. Yes the end of the year didn’t matter as far as standings last season, but it gave them confidence and sometimes that’s all a young team needs.

WhiteSoxHomer
4 years 5 months ago

I think the humor intended in the comment is that Epstein is seen as a genius. Epstein is good but his team’s payroll really helps smooth out his mistakes. It seems like this is a joke aimed at Epstein that also complements the Rays.

notsureifsrs
4 years 5 months ago

imagine how many WS we would have won if I was as smart as Buck Showalter

niched
4 years 5 months ago

His comments were supposed to irk the the Red Sox (and the Yankees). He did it jokingly and in good humor, but he’s probably trying to get under the competition’s skin a bit. If it upsets Francona or Epstein or anyone else in Boston, then mission accomplished. Billy Martin said worse things about Baltimore than Buck has said about Epstein or the Red Sox, and he said it at a time when the Orioles were about toughest competition out there for the Yanks.

NomarGarciaparra
4 years 5 months ago

While he is partly right in saying that the Red Sox has a lot more resources, it’s not easier to be a GM of a large-revenue club. With large-revenue comes great expectations. Imagine being the GM of the Pirates…if you come last, well, no surprise there. If you don’t come last, you look like a genius.

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

There’s just as many bad big $ teams as there is good big $ teams. so I don’t think I agree with that . The expectations will be in places in boston and ny regardless of payroll

jb226
4 years 5 months ago

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not sure I agree. Is there a different standard for winning in big markets and small ones? Sure, but that doesn’t mean the pressure goes away. The Pirates, “meeting expectations” by finishing last, have had more GM switches and far more managerial switches than Boston or New York or Chicago (both teams) or Los Angeles (both) who have all enjoyed varying levels of successes, from the “win almost every year” camp to the “in and out” club.

The reality is, like in everything else, money talks. Big-money teams can afford to take gambles. If they pay off, they look extremely smart — and if they don’t, well, who cares? It doesn’t hurt that badly. A $1MM gamble for the Pirates is 2.5% of their payroll; a $5MM gamble is unheard of — that’s the range of their highest-paid players. It lets teams be more aggressive in the draft and particularly in areas like international free agency. It lets people get those quality free agents when their farm happens to be thin at a position or they feel like they can make a push. It lets them sign huge contracts that would not only obliterate other teams’ payrolls, but would absolutely cripple them for years and years if it didn’t work out.

I’m not criticizing any team, nor am I saying that Theo Epstein is not a good GM. In fact, generally speaking, I think his mix of free agents, international free agents and drafted players ranks among the more impressive in the game. Likewise, you can find awesome GMs in low-payroll teams and horrible GMs in high-payroll teams. But of course money makes things easier.

wkkortas
4 years 5 months ago

a $5MM gamble is unheard of

Lyle Overbay nods appreciatively.

notsureifsrs
4 years 5 months ago

a GM isn’t responsible for this, but i feel compelled to point out that having the money in the first place isn’t as simple as existing in a large market. the red sox have the tenth largest market by population and the seventh largest market by television market size, but they have the second highest revenue and payroll. this is in large part because they’ve done better as a business than several other franchises, for which they deserve credit and not criticism

in other words, sure it’s hard to operate with less money. it’s also hard to make more money. some organizations do that better than others

TheHotCorner
4 years 5 months ago

I would have to disagree with you. Just because you are a GM of a small market team doesn’t mean the fans don’t have the same expectations as larger market fans.

4 years 5 months ago

It seems like Buck probably figured he should play the “punk rock” role, showing his supposed smaller-market team they shouldn’t be intimidated (as if they were in the first place) of the Yankees and Red Sox. It backfired pretty badly in this instance, although I think we all expect the O’s to be an improved club on the field.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

His comments weren’t meant to place personal attacks on people. IMO, they were to tell the players and the media market that it’s time. It’s time for the Orioles to put up or shut up. No more excuses, it’s time to win.

Now, with the comment about Theo Epstein, I have to agree with Showalter. I’d like to see Epstein build a team with Tampa’s market. He isn’t that smart, he built a well worthy 1st place team, but the depth didn’t show up last year. Good teams, have superb benches and depth. Unfortunately, the Red Sox didn’t have that last year.

4 years 5 months ago

What? How did the depth not show up last year? You do realize they won 89 games without (for the most part) most of their lineup? Not sure which sport you follow, but 89 games would’ve been good enough to make the playoffs in any other division.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

They did well last year, I’m not takin that away, but the Orioles broke even with them going 9-9, either the Red Sox were terrible (actually Papelbon and Beckett were) or the Orioles are finally becoming relevant again..

4 years 5 months ago

Breaking even against a AAA team when you play in the majors is not something to be proud of šŸ˜‰

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

A AAA team? Hahaha we will see about that this year

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

He meant the red sox we’re a AAA team

They went 9-9 vs sox, fine but went 15-3 vs jays. So you can’t really read in to it to much. small sample sizes, work themselves out over time

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

Its nice to see that the O’s are lead by a man in Showalter, who is scared and he doesn’t shy away from the big bad Yanks and Sox.

His type of mentality is what the Orioles have been lacking for the past 13 years, he has a winning mentality.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

**who IS NOT scared

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

No no, you were right the first time.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

If we was scared do you really think he would have mad any comments attacking Boston or NY? Trembley never did..

Fangaffes
4 years 5 months ago

Except that he misspelled “scarred”.

4 years 5 months ago

I’m surprised Okajima still has options. It’s kind of a snuff though. Okajima has been one of the best lefty relievers the last few years. Take it from a Cardinal fan though: Dennys Reyes will give up a lot of homeruns at Fenway.

Oh, and I agree with Showalter. It’s not hard to sign the best players when you have an unlimited amount of money to work with. The A-Gon trade was a good one though. I really hope he keeps his word and signs him to an extension (so he won’t go after Pujols).

bomberj11
4 years 5 months ago

Oki’s been one of the best lefty relievers the past few years? He’s gradually gotten worse and if he was one of the best he’d be on the 25 man roster right now.

4 years 5 months ago

Think what you like. But Reyes couldn’t even get lefties out last year.

JayTeam
4 years 5 months ago

Buck was showing some bravado and if he’s going to be around for any length of time with the O’s, his teams are going to need it. He knows he’s in one brutally tough division, both short and long term. Sox and Yanks are the 2 highest spending teams in MLB. 3 opponents with top 10 records last year (and possibly this year as well). But future also – Rays, Jays and Yanks with 3 of top 5 farm systems, O’s 21st (BA). Loaded draft this year – Rays,Jays,Sox own 24 of the 1st 90 picks, O’s have 2. In a poll of GM’s last year, Epstein was chosen as the best in baseball, but IMO, Friedman and Anthopoulos are showing they’re not far behind. Good luck, Buck.

notsureifsrs
4 years 5 months ago

i like this comment

ARod's Ring
4 years 5 months ago

Mr.Showalter, Instead of firing up your own team with your silly comments, your actually firing up two of the best teams in baseball against your Orioles, which I don’t think is a good idea when you still have to worried about the Jays and Blue Jays… have fun at 5th Place.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

Lol they will not be in 5th place. The Jays will be

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

If Sabathia opts out, and if I’m the Yankees I offer the same amount of $ yearly he was making. Certainly do not do 7 years, but more so of 4-5 years. No team is going to match his AAV, so unless he wants to go somewhere else for less money, he will probably take a new contract. The Yankees should not do with Sabathia what they did with A-Rod (same years of a new contract and this time even more money)

If the Yankees were smart, they shouldn’t offer him a dime more than what he makes now (at an AAV)

uncolaman
4 years 5 months ago

Hey Buck you forgot one thing add Cashman to that sentence. It’s not that hard when you make a mistake so what hust throw away the player and throw the monwy with it. Glad to see that Buck still says it how it is!

roomwithamoose
4 years 5 months ago

how it is? like how even ESPN was able to point out how wrong his statements on Jeter was, or that having a high payroll guarantees success, but aren’t the mets amongst other teams examples you need to be educated to field a good high payroll team?

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

ESPN having favorable coverage of the Yankees? Impossible.

roomwithamoose
4 years 5 months ago

read before being an A$$…I said EVEN to downplay their contribution to itelligent discussion… do I need to underline qualifying statements for you? or maybe just have someone else read for you?

roomwithamoose
4 years 5 months ago

and it’s not favorable coverage, if you know non altered stats are used… if not taking statistics out of context, then they axtually tell you something useful. But your nonbacked manager’s subjective opinion is more more valid, I’m sure…

birdbrass190
4 years 4 months ago

The ESPN thing on Jeter actually didnt take everything into account, such as pitchers tend to try and go inside on Jeter more often than other hitters so the percentage of strikes goes up. Jeter does get alot of calls others dont, not knocking him when youve had the career derick jeter has had your gonna get calls others dont. Likewise Roy holliday gets calls brian matusz wont too, its nothing new.

andrewrickli
4 years 5 months ago

Say that again July 1st

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

what would change then? Showalter is going to magically make a 1 good pitcher rotation deep with talent?

roomwithamoose
4 years 5 months ago

I really wouldn’t want to be in detroit if they decide to find their tiger blood haha

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Billy Martin did the same thing, so watch your little high horse.

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

goto baseball america and check it out.

Rays are #2, Jays are #4 in almost all rankings.. Yankees are as low as 5 and high as 7 in the rankings I’ve seen.

0bsessions
4 years 5 months ago

As I recall, B-A had them pegged as number 5.

0bsessions
4 years 5 months ago

“What Epstein has done to turn around the Red Sox farm system is incredible, and money had nothing to do with that.”

” changed agents from Kevin Hubbard to Jeff Berry of CAA Sports, reports Speier. Workman had signed for $800K, about $165K over slot.”

Considering how prevalent the words “Red Sox” and “over slot” show up in conjunction, money had plenty to do with it.

Now, I think Epstein is a great GM, but if they put in hard slotting in the next CBA, that’s going to be a big test of his capabilities.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

Not to take anything away from Theo who I have a LOT of respect for but the Sox DO consistently rank at the top in terms of most money spent on the draft. From 2008-2010 the Sox spent aout $28 mil which was second only to the Pirates. COnsidering the Pirates spent $9 mil on Sanchez and Taillon that says a lot.

However, considering that relative to all others, spending $10 mil on the draft is a lot but it certainly ISN’T a lot for small market teams who don’t spend on mlb salaries and are receiving tons of money thru revenue sharing and luxury tax money. So, while the Sox flex their muscles the most they aren’t exactly doing anything that the other teams couldn’t afford to do either.

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

The Red Sox have been in the top 5 in draft spending over the last several years despite picking near the bottom of each round. I assure you, spending ability has something to do with it.

0bsessions
4 years 5 months ago

I dunno about you, but I feel that $165K is money. There’s a long list of things I would be willing to do for $165K. Get me one o’ them college educations.

MaineSox
4 years 5 months ago

The Orioles have spent the 6th most over the last three years, or about $1mil less than the Sox per year. They could spend as much as the Sox if they wanted to.

MaineSox
4 years 5 months ago

Over the last three years the Red Sox have spent a little over $15mil more on the draft than the “cheapest” team (the White Sox). That’s about $5mil more per year; I don’t think that there is a team in baseball that couldn’t spend the extra $5mil on the draft if they were so inclined.

And since we are talking specifically about the Orioles: the Red Sox have spent just over $3mil more on the draft than the Orioles over the last three years, or about $1mil per year. Buck’s Orioles can’t afford a million per year to match the “big spender” Theo?

P.S. the Orioles have spent $5.5mil more than the Yankees over that same time period.

$1519287
4 years 5 months ago

They were also the highest payroll in 98 and were top 2 in the years previous. Even after that they kept sticking around the bottom of the top half when they stunk.

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

Okay, but that has little to do with my point …

The farm system of the Sox has been well regarded in recent years and it’s rather blind to pretend money has nothing to do with it. If they aren’t picking in the top 5, but are spending in the top 5, it means they are signing several over slot picks. These over slot picks are players that other teams probably liked, but just couldn’t (or didn’t want to) afford to pay. So yeah, money absolutely has something to do with it.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

Comparing what the Orioles spend vs the Sox is sort of whacky. The O’s spend that much because they pick that high. They spent about $8 mil on their #1 picks over the last two years.

But again, I don’t see anything wrong because it’s a complete misunderstanding that big draft names are falling down to the Sox and Yanks because of signing concerns.

MaineSox
4 years 5 months ago

Not really because it’s not “spending ability” like you said it’s willingness to spend; in any case it’s still foolish to blame a GM for being willing to spend money that your GM wont. Shouldn’t you be criticizing your GM for not being willing to spend the money? Because they are certainly able to.

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

I’m not entirely sure what Buck has to do with the draft conversation considering he was hired after the draft and has had nothing to do the Orioles’ drafting decisions in the past decade.

His comments regarding Theo had to do with Carl Crawford. He was able to sign CC because he wrote the biggest check. Can’t really argue with that.

MaineSox
4 years 5 months ago

You can’t change the argument now, this whole line of comments has been about the draft and spending money on the draft so that was what I was responding to.

“He was able to sign CC because he wrote the biggest check.” That’s how free agency usually works isn’t it?

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

You’re good at twisting arguments …

I didn’t “blame” Theo for spending on the draft. I simply said it’s ignorant to pretend spending has nothing to do with the success of Boston’s farm when it clearly does.

MaineSox
4 years 5 months ago

If I misunderstood your point I apologize but the conversation seemed to be about the Red Sox being able to spend more on the draft which really isn’t the case.

notsureifsrs
4 years 5 months ago

not unless it helps my argument

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

Yes these comments were regarding the draft, but Buck’s comments had nothing to do the draft. It had to do with CC, and simply writing the biggest check to acquire him.

As you tried to put words in my mouth about “blaming” Theo for spending in the draft, you’re doing the same with Buck. He was simply saying there is nothing brilliant about writing the biggest check. I’m not saying Theo isn’t a good GM; I think he is. But it’s also hard to judge him when he’s got many advantages other GMs simply don’t have.

Also, keep in mind that when you’re saying “just X million more,’ you’re talking about a significant percent of the overall draft budget. In terms of the Orioles, it’s only about 10% more. In terms of the White Sox, the Red Sox have more than doubled their spending over the last 3 years.

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

I’ve said my point several times now and it isn’t complicated …

It’s ignorant to pretend finances have nothing to do with the state of Boston’s farm system. It absolutely does. You haven’t really disputed this …

niched
4 years 5 months ago

One good pitcher rotation. Are you referring to the Yankees?

Lunchbox45
4 years 5 months ago

no. they have 2

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

I think Casey Kelly and his 3 million dollar signing bonus at the end of the 1st round in 2007 would disagree.

In case you need a reminder, he was regarded as the top Boston prospect prior to being traded as the centerpiece to land Adrian Gonzalez …

And if it’s a misunderstanding that more talented players are falling to the Sox over financial reasons, what is it that Boston is spending all of this extra draft money on? Less talented players?

niched
4 years 5 months ago

It’s possible that the O’s best pitcher at the moment is Zach Britton, who won’t get promoted from the minors until end of April at the earliest. The O’s are definitely better than a one-pitcher team this year, but it is true that their staff is struggling a bit right now (except for Britton, who has been outstanding this spring).

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

Casey Kelly proves nothing. He was drafted so late because he had FB scholarship as a QB at a high prfoile school and ppl thought he wouldn’t sign. The Sox gave him $3 mil to change his mind. HOWEVER, keep in mind that 8 other teams signed players for $2.6 mil or more and they could’ve done the same. If Kelly wanted $3 mil I’m sure he didn’t care if he got @ the #30th spot or at the #15.

The real brain fart that ppl have is when they assume that those players were STOLEN because no other team was capable of signing him at that price. Clearly, he could’ve been signed sooner. The Sox took a huge risk because had Kelly decided to go Univ of Tenn then the Sox would’ve wasted their #1 pick for that season. Risk/Reward. Any other team could’ve done it.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

Also, just because they SPEND more on the draft vs Team X doesn’t mean they getting better players. What it means is that inorder to make up for not having access to the top 10 players in the draft then they have to take chances on high end guys with questionable issues such as health (Anthony Ranuado) or signability issues like dual sports status or desire to go to college (Casey Kelly). Same can be said for the Yanks who took a huge camble on Brackman (knew he needed TJ surgery) and Gerritt Cole (committed to UCLA).

OrangeCards
4 years 5 months ago

If you want to pretend Kelly didn’t fall to them because of money issues, whatever …

So if talented players aren’t falling to other teams for financial reasons, why it is that the Sox have spent the 2nd most in the MLB on the draft the last 3 seasons. They aren’t spending extra because they pick in the top 5 each year … So, are they paying a premium just for the fun of it?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

They are not signing players that are too expensive to be signed by others, they are spending money on players that others pass up because they have either health issues or leverage to go elsewhere like college. COnsidering how there were 8 to 10 other players in the 1st rnd that signed for comporable or more money than Kelly then obviously it wasn’t that they felt he was too expensive.

Kelly was viewed as a top 10 talent. The top 10 players drafted that year averaged a bonus of $4.2mil. Kelly signed for $3 mil. Logically speaking any of those teams could have had him if they wanted him including smaller market teams likethe Reds ($4.5 on Alonzo).

Just because a player was passed on and signed for more than slot doesn’t mean he was “stolen” by smaller market teams. It’s a fallacy.