NL East Notes: Phillies, Prospects, Mets

The Nationals and Braves are very much in the race for postseason berths, but it’s time for three NL East teams to think about 2013 and beyond. Here are the latest NL East links, starting in Philadelphia…

  • Philadelphia GM Ruben Amaro Jr. said third base is becoming a difficult position to fill, Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer reports. The Phillies figure to pursue third basemen when Placido Polanco hits free agency after the season, but Amaro has discussed the possibility of converting a second baseman or shortstop to third base, since the market at the hot corner is so barren. The GM said it may make sense for the Phillies to trade for a third baseman, instead of signing a free agent.
  • The Phillies are willing to trade from minor league depth to bolster their MLB team, though they aren't anxious to trade young players, Amaro said. 
  • The Phillies will also be looking for outfield help this coming offseason — Amaro said it's a top priority. He added that acquiring above-average offensive outfielders could allow the team to pursue a defensively oriented third baseman.
  • Manager Terry Collins listed Ruben Tejada as a player who could help the Mets contend for the duration of a six-month season, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports. But aside from Tejada, the Mets don't have many sure things in place, Sherman writes. For example, Lucas Duda and Kirk Nieuwenhuis are back in Triple-A and the Mets have ongoing bullpen issues. The 2012 season was supposed to reveal some long-term pieces for the team, but as the season has progressed, more questions than answers have emerged.


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55 Comments on "NL East Notes: Phillies, Prospects, Mets"


hiflyer000
3 years 21 days ago

“Amaro says OF is a top priority” translates into a 5 year $120 million deal for Hamilton.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

Wouldn’t mind that if there was an out clause if he relapses… especially since the numbers coming out for Bourn (who’s my #1 target if I’m Ruben) are starting to scare me.

Rollins
Utley
Hamilton
Howard
Ruiz
Brown
3B
Mayberry/Schierholtz (whoops)
P
is solid. You’d have two guys (Utley and Hamilton) who when they’re at their best are .900 ops kind of players.

NatFan05
3 years 21 days ago

What makes you believe Utley will ever put up a .900 OPS season again? If the Phillies want to strap themselves with another fat contract on an aging player, among other concerns, be my guest.. Personally, I think they go the route of overpaying for Bourn, at least I hope they do so Rizzo doesn’t make that mistake.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

He’s at .822 after missing half the season in order to build strength in his legs. With a full off season under him and spring training, I’d expect him around .850 at least. He’s back to driving the ball, something he hasn’t been able to do in close to two years.

Chase Utley’s not done being an elite player in this league.

NatFan05
3 years 21 days ago

He hasn’t played more than 115 games the past 3 seasons. Leg problems don’t exactly get better as you get older, as well as him being on the wrong side of 33. Saying he’s still capable of being an elite player seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

They do when you increase the strength in the areas around your knees to the point where the pain is tolerable. I guess we’re going to have to find out but I believe in Chase Utley. Carlos Beltran is an example of a guy who’s come back from similar knee injuries and is an all star.

If Chipper Jones at the age of 39/40 can have one of the best seasons of his career, Chase Utley can still play elite baseball in this league.

halflink123
3 years 21 days ago

Chipper is retiring at the end of the year b/c his knees must hurt like crazy; that’s a bad example. And Chipper has no range at 3B-Utley is a 2B where thats even more important

burnboll
3 years 20 days ago

Why do you believe Utley will rebound to elite status? There’s really nothing in the way he plays that indicates that he’s on track for such a rebound?
Is it just a hunch, wishful thinking or do you have some sort of inside info that points in that direction?

If we’re to believe Phillies own medical staff, Utley’s got a chronic knee problem, which puts a big question mark on any type of recovery to past glory.

Utley would probably be best suited playing in AL, where he could rotate between 2nd base and the DH spot, giving his knees much needed rest. Hopefully Phillies will trade him to team like perhaps the Rays before next season in return for some type of prospects.

Look, Utley’s a fan favorite, I get that. But Phillies, and Amaro, needs to start managing the roster not on sympathies but rather on cold hard win strategy.

Jimcass134
3 years 21 days ago

Bourn will not get the deal Onley said and if he does it will most certainly not be the Phillies. I believe Amaro knows he has to be smarter with his money if he intends to keep his job. So if he is going to give anyone 16-20 million a year, Josh Hamilton will be in red pinstripes.

3 years 21 days ago

This is just the recipe for a disaster.

3 years 21 days ago

That team is just not very good. Not because it lacks talent. It lacks a left fielder.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

hah can’t believe I did that.

Curtis Smith
3 years 21 days ago

team is left handed hitting heavy for real

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

Why on earth would Phillies go after Michael Bourn? He’s a 30+ year old player, who strikes out a lot. His greatest strength, the speed, is bound to deteriate as he gets older. Stolen bases are overrated to begin with.

Jimcass134
3 years 21 days ago

Yes why on earth would the Phillies go after a gold-glove caliber CF, who can provide some speed and is an actual lead-off hitter that this line-up has always needed? Also stolen bases are overrated? They allow you to only have to hit a single to score a run rather than a ball hit in the gap. They are very important to a team having success scoring runs.

burnboll
3 years 20 days ago

Have you looked at Bourn’s stats, or at his actual games this year?
He’s not stealing bases with the same frequency anymore, he’s got a little bit better power, but not as to offset his drop in SB.
To go after Bourn would be a tremendous mistake.
Phillies needs to find an affordable temporary OBP solution, and also trade for prospects that can be future lead off guys.

Jimcass134
3 years 3 days ago

I have seen Bourn’s stats. He has 37 SBs, 3rd in the MLB, a .352 OBP which is in the top 50 in the MLB and would be the highest on the Phillies, he has played 129 games, ranked #1 in the MLB, so he is very durable, and of course brings back that gold glove caliber defense to the outfield.

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

Wouldn’t surprise me if Amaro gives away some kind of nightmarish 8 year, 200 million dollar deal to Hamilton.
Just consider how he handled the contracts given to Papelbon, Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels (way overpaid there!)..

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

He overpaid for Hamels? Give me a break. That’s the price you pay for Ace pitchers in this league.

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

I consider Jered Weaver a slightly better pitcher than Cole Hamels. Jered Weaver signed an 17.5 million dollar/year contract with the Angels this year.
Hamels is good, but I don’t see him worth 7 million dollars more/year than Weaver.
And the main problem is really that Phillies should’ve signed him to an extension maybe two seasons ago, when it was still manageable. But back then, all Ruben was about was getting Cliff Lee and signing him to that ludicrous contract that he refused to let go of despite the Dodgers giving the Phillies an “out” of it.

myname_989
3 years 21 days ago

Weaver signed at a “team-friendly” discount price. The Phillies offered the same deal to Hamels and he turned it down.

The Phillies didn’t overpay for Hamels. They paid market value. Big difference.

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

If you read the latter part of my comment you see why I have a problem with the way Ruben handled Hamels.
He basically got around to re-signing Hamels much too late.
If you have a long term plan, you know what players you want to keep over the next couple of years. Which means Phillies should’ve prioritized re-signing Hamels earlier.
Right now, it feels like everything Ruben does is knee jerk reactions.

Jimcass134
3 years 21 days ago

Yes because 2 years ago he was trying to sign Lee and give his team a staff of 4 four aces at the time. It’s very easy to go look back andsee his mistakes, but at the time of his deals he was trying to do everything he could to win another WS

burnboll
3 years 20 days ago

Well, that’s sort of my point.

Amaro is trading away the future of the club for a chance to contend now.
That’s the mode he’s been in constantly since he took over.

How many titles did that bring him? None.

On the other hand, look at St Louis, with one of the best farm systems in baseball. The last few years, they won one WS, and still managed to keep their top prospects, and got a very nicely balanced ball club age wise. The Cards should be able to contend this year (I feel pretty certain that they will get into the playoff despite their current record, they have the best offense in the NL).

Cards looks to be able to contend in the foreseeable future as well.

Cards are disciplined. When Pujols asked for too big and too long of an extension, Cards just let him leave. That’s how Phillies should’ve handled Ryan Howard too.

Jimcass134
3 years 3 days ago

St Louis and Philadelphia are in two different financial situations. The Cards are not comfortable out huge contracts while the Phillies are. The Pujols and Howard deals are also different. Howard was signed to his extension a couple of years back while he was still a serious force in a line-up. If they let him go to FA, they would have had to be in a bidding war with every team for one of Pujols, Fielder, and Howard. That would have most likely costed them more years and more money than the deal they got with Howard. Finally to say that you don’t see the Phils contending in the coming years is something I find almost impossible.The Phillies are a big spending team now and most likely will be for the future. They have a massive TV deal coming in the next few years which will allow them to keep spending. As long as good players continue to hit free agency the Phillies will continue to contend.

Kenny St John
3 years 21 days ago

Sherman is making a ridiculous argument. Yes, most players struggle when getting called up. Duda has already shown good power and patience at the plate. Kirk is above average defensively and was doing well early on in the season before faltering. It is to be expected. However, to say that the Mets don’t have many sure pieces is a gross overstatement. Harvey and Wheeler are top arms, Niese has taken a step forward, Dickey has taken a step towards becoming a deity, Wright has restored his status as an elite player, and Murphy has shown that he can handle second base. The infield is set. All teams have their question marks, but the Mets I think got more answers this season than Sherman is willing to credit them with.

3 years 21 days ago

They still have questions at catcher and every outfield position. Duda is not an outfielder. Hes atrocious out there and one of the worst in the league. Then main reason why he got demoted. So where do you put him? Not 1B. Unless hes absolutely raking he hurts the team more than he helps it.

Kirk has been impressive in the outfield but he needs to improve his contact rate and lower his K rate.

But other than that I am pretty happy with the infield. Ike needs some real help but he has shown before that he is a more than capable all around first baseman

halflink123
3 years 21 days ago

agreed. seems since sandy took over theyve been bashing every move, though most of them have been SPOT ON (Wheeler)

halflink123
3 years 21 days ago

agreed. if the mets had a rock solid ‘pen, they would have at least 10 more wins at this point. not bad for a team many predicted would finish last

diehardmets
3 years 21 days ago

As much as I like Duda’s bat, he needs to be traded. He does not belong in the OF, but could be an above average first baseman, Several teams around the league could use a young 1B with monster power potential (Rays, Indians come to mind quickly), and I’m sure they could get either a decent OF or SP prospect out of him.

halflink123
3 years 21 days ago

problem is he has little to no value no with a .700ops in AAA

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

Next year: move Jimmy Rollins to third. And have Freddy Galvis play short stop. Bat Jimmy-Popup 7th, Freddy Galvis 8th.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

Jimmy Rollins will never play third base.

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

If he can, he should. The Phillies have a player coming up in the SS position who’s great defensively (Galvis) and challenged offensively. Move Rollins to 3rd. That solves the infield issues.

myname_989
3 years 21 days ago

So ask Galvis to play third. What’s the difference?

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 20 days ago

His ego is too high (and he’s earned that). Galvis would play third.

crashcameron
3 years 21 days ago

Can Utley?

3 years 21 days ago

the phillies have minor league depth? news to me

crashcameron
3 years 21 days ago

some solid-looking arms (*with the obvious buyer-beware tag) and two catchers

bucsws2014
3 years 21 days ago

But “they aren’t willing to trade young players”. So they’re only willing to trade old minor league players? Good luck with that!

Bucs have a couple guys who need to come off the 40-man: Hague & d’Arnaud. We could use some catching depth. Sounds like a completely inconsequential deal of moving deck chairs could be had, lol.

Gothapotamus
3 years 21 days ago

They have a few arms which should be ready in the next two years or so. Pettibone, Cloyd and Hyatt look to be guys who could develop into 2s or 3s. May and Biddle have potential to be 1s, but they are the furthest away.

bigpat
3 years 21 days ago

I would like to see them trade for one of the Phillies lefty relievers. Raul Valdez can probably be had for next to nothing, but I’d give Hague or D’Arnaud for him.

hiflyer000
3 years 21 days ago

I think they meant that they aren’t willing to trade young MLB players (like Brown or Worley), and the Phillies have a ton of depth in A and AA, and 4 legitimate Catching prospects.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

They are willing to trade their prospects for the right players. It said “They are willing to trade young players.”

I’d assume the right guy is Chase Headley among other potential complimentary 3rd Basemen.

Blue387
3 years 21 days ago

Ask Omar MInaya.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

He hasn’t really done anything that’s worth firing him for yet. If they are a bad team next year he’s looking at losing his job. When you make the decision to “Win Now” this is what happens. During his tenure he built 3 teams that were capable of winning a Championship and two that were the favorites coming out of the National League.

I disagree with some of his moves but firing him would be an overreaction. To think this team could finish anywhere higher than 3rd place without Halladay, Utley, Howard, and half the bullpen for an extended period of time, and Lee, Worley, among others for a shorter period of time after the improvements the Nationals made… is absolutely delusional.

Every GM has bad deals/bad contracts (see: Theo Epstein (John Lackey and Dice-K), Pat Gillick (Freddy Garcia for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd) (Brad Lidge) among other prominent GM’s).

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

He’s going to have to deplete the farm system if he wants a long term 3B like Chase Headley… they don’t grow on trees and the FA market is barren. There’s nothing wrong with trading prospects as long as you’re recieving players with control. The odds of Trevor May (for example) becoming an elite starter in this league is slim.

Really, I’d have no problem selling any one of our prospects. The only ones I might hesitate with are Joseph and Biddle.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 21 days ago

The likely hood of ANY prospect being a productive major leaguer is slim… especially pitchers. That’s what I meant. I’ll take a known commodity over a prospect any day of the week (with exceptions of course like a Mike Trout or a Stephen Strasburg type of prospect in recent years). For example, Kyle Drabek was supposed to be an elite starting pitcher in this league. He had an ERA around 5 and is going to have his second Tommy John. Meanwhile, we got two seasons of Cy Young caliber baseball from Roy Halladay.

I would disagree with the assessment that they’re getting fleeced. Singelton, Gose, and D’Arnaud are the only prospects we gave up that I feel are going to bite us. Deals don’t work out and it happens and you have to move on and learn from it.

bucsws2014
3 years 21 days ago

What part of “The Phillies are willing to trade from minor league depth to bolster their MLB team, though they aren’t anxious to trade young players, Amaro said.” indicates that willingness again?

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

In the Hunter Pence trade, the Houston Astros got Jonathan Singleton, who’s now ranked the no 1 prospect in the Astros organisation.
Astros also got Domingo Santana, considered a high ceiling OF who’s got 18 HR’s in Aplus ball this summer, as well as a decent 286 average (up a lot from last year).
As well as Jarrod Cosart, a RH pitcher, who’s recently been promoted to AAA ball.
Phillies at the time made a big deal of holding onto Domonic Brown. Who would you rather have today: Dom Brown or any of the above players?
You could argue that none of these players will ever make it to the big league, but the fact of the matter is that they all represent exactly what the Astros need: plenty of talent to build on. Some will develop into studs.
Astros were willing to make the tough trade. They gave up Hunter Pence in order to get plenty of prospects in return (they got 4 prospects in total).
You seem to think that Phillies never should give up any of it’s prime players in order to land prospects.
Instead, you want to trade away even the existing farm system for semi-star players.
With that mindset, Phillies are bound to have a very meager farm system, and will never have a chance at getting into the WS again.
Look around the league. It’s all about stock piling the farm system these days.

burnboll
3 years 21 days ago

The Ryan Howard extension seems fine to you? Ryan is batting around .200 and with not much power at the moment, in case you haven’t noticed.
What about Jimmy Pop Up extended at 11 million/year the next 3 years, and batting 250 without power? Seems like a good deal for the Phillies?
Overpaying for Cliff Lee, and when the Dodgers shows up willing to take on the back end, bad part of the contract, refusing to let go? You think Ruben showed skills there?
Or how about trading away some of the top current prospects in all of baseball the last few seasons in D’Arnaud, Gose and Singleton? That was nicely handled by Ruben?
Even when Ruben lets go of players, they end up with better value on other teams. Look at how Cashman managed to get better trade value for Chad Qualls. Or how Cashman (again!) has found Raul Ibanez a role where he’s been really good.

Slopeboy
3 years 21 days ago

@burnboil
Careful there Captain, dumping on Amaro and praising Cashman opens you up to a whole lot of stuff being heaped on you.
So what if you’re right!

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 20 days ago

You expect Ryan Howard to be Ryan Howard as he comes back from an achillies injury? Are you joking?

He actually underpaid for Cliff Lee. His contract is more than fair.

I’d trade Travis D’Arnaud for Roy Halladay 10/10 times.

Raul Ibanez was signed to be a DH/part time outfielder… He’d fit well as a DH on our club… sigh.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 20 days ago

Santana strikes out so much that the likely hood of him being the player he’s capable of is slim. Jarred Cosart has the stuff to be a strikeout pitcher but isn’t missing bats like he should be.

Who would I rather have over Domonic Brown? Singleton maybe. I’m a Dom Brown fan though and have been so that’s more of a compliment to Singleton.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 20 days ago

The part where it says they are willing to…?