Whether the Blue Jays keep manager John Farrell or send him to the Red Sox, the time has come to make a decision, argues Sportsnet.ca's Shi Davidi. The manager controversy is taking the Jays' attention away from more important offseason business, and Davidi argues that unless the Jays receive quality compensation in return for Farrell, it will make the team look bad to free agents. "An ideal sales pitch doesn’t include: 'Come to Toronto, this manager won’t flee to help our direct opposition,' ” Davidi writes.
Here's the latest from north of the border…
- There is still speculation that the Jays are eager to part ways with Farrell, with one team-connected source telling Jon Heyman of CBS Sports that, “The people there [in Toronto] would charter a jet to get him out.''
- The negotiations between the Jays and the Red Sox about Farrell have advanced beyond the "preliminary" stage, tweets Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. Cafardo broke the news yesterday that the two teams have begun to discuss how the Jays would be compensated in a possible trade of the manager.
- As to what that compensation might look like, Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe uses the Theo Epstein and Ozzie Guillen deals as models to conclude that "a pitcher on the cusp of being helpful to the big league team and a Double A prospect" will be suitable, with Toronto also sending "a non-prospect" back to Boston.
- In a radio interview with Jeff Sammut of Sportsnet 590 The Fan (partially transcribed by Sportsnet.ca's Mike Johnston), Shaun Marcum said he'd be open to returning to the Jays as a free agent and cited his good relationships with the training staff, pitching coach Bruce Walton and third base coach Brian Butterfield. "They're on my list, that's for sure," Marcum said. "I enjoyed my time there, I loved the city, loved the coaching staff, so it's definitely a place that I would be interested in." Marcum said he's willing to pitch anywhere and in either league, though he wants to pitch for a team with a chance at the playoffs.
- Carlos Villanueva talks about his free agency, his late-season slump and the Toronto fans with MLB.com's Gregor Chisholm.
- As reported earlier today, the Jays claimed right-hander Tyson Brummett off waivers from the Phillies.
So Marcum is interested in Toronto, but also wants to pitch for a team with the chance at the playoffs. Pick a lane, Shaun!
The Jays do have a chance…it may not be as strong as others, but the 2nd WC opens up playoff chances for a lot more teams. The Orioles and A’s “didn’t have a chance” heading into the season and look how they ended up.
That’s absolutely true. The AL East has just gone through the changing of the guard. The demise of Boston for the time being and the rest of the division catching up to NY shows that every team has real shot.The Jays have a talented team that went through a horrendous season due to injury. If they can escape what happened this past season, and shore up their SP, they’re legit contenders for a WC spot at the very least.
I love the optimism, but the injuries were just the half of it.
Overlooked is the fact that 6 opening day starters had average to bad years, lind, escobar, johnson, rasmus, thames, arencibia.
and then there was the pitching.
The jays still have a lot of holes to fill, and a lot of question marks going in to next year. . AA is going to have to be pretty aggressive to get in to the upper echelon of AL teams.
If I can be sort of optimistic which is rare for me is the fact Jays were .500 despite that and only broke apart after like Jose and every hitter went down. I mean, they had awful starting pitching, Ricky was awful (can you really say you expect Ricky to be that awful again?), they had a bunch of injuries, closing situation was a mess until Jansenn came in, Morrow missed a good chunk of time, Alvarez was terrible, Yunel was terrible, Colby was awful in the 2nd half (might have had an injury), Lawrie was a disappointment (at least for me), KJ was awful. Lind as usual, was awful. They seemed to lose every 1 run game. I mean so many things went wrong for them but they were still .500 for the most part and I can’t reasonably expect all those guys to be as awful as they were.
They will make some upgrades in the rotation, maybe get a 2B and LF that are not totally awful. Or get a DH that doesn’t suck like Lind. I do think Jays could take big steps next year… however, it all starts with getting some legit starting pitching.
It seems like AA feels the same way and the way he has been talking which we seen before, is that he is going to be aggressive in FA and seems more willing to trade prospects for major leaguers. But yeah, still a lot of work to do.
As I said, injuries had a significant impact. The SP will have to be better, but there is talent there. Lawrie is a player, Gose, Hecheveria will get better and excude talent. The Jays finished the season with a handful of games vs NY and those players made a slew of mistakes that can be attributed to inexperience. The talent is there, it just needs a bit of seasoning and some decent SP. As a Yankees fan, I’m hoping I’m wrong, but I think the AL East is going to be wild come 2013.
For the amount of time JP got tho with Mathis as back up and JP’s late season injury…I think you’re right. Johnson is done, Escobar needs to be dealt if he doesn’t get better, Rasmus still has time until Marscinik. Aggressive is an understatement, AA needs to make a lot of changes from 2nd base, to the rotation to LF and DH. And the biggest question mark for me…is actually Bautista. How does he do after the wrist injury?
encarnacion is all bautista like now anyways so we’re good
agreed, but 2-4 of those players (Thames, Lind and maybe JPA or even Johnson) will not be opening day starters this coming season
O’s just made the playoffs. it can happen!
Come on home, Shaun.
I’d take Shaun Marcum back in a heartbeat. He’s a gent. A grinder. And, most importantly, a beauty.
I like Farrell, but this could be a huge mistake. The Sox can just be done with this and sign anyone of these guys they’ve interviewed and they should. I thought this time it was being done the right way but this looks like its going the wrong way again.
i like farrell just fine but if you can add real talent then you do it. bard’s value is low…i would definetly take a flyer on that guy.
I really enjoyed watching Shaun pitch with the Jays & wouldn’t mind seeing him come back if things lined up.
I’d do Farrell for Daniel Bard.
Why separate the guy they hope can fix him?
Farrell wasn’t the guy who fixed Miller, not sure he is the guy who can fix Bard either.
Other hand? I **do** think Farrell could fix Masterson, but that is 2 moves..
I’d rather just do Daniel Bard. He’s fixable…
Here Toronto, take Jose Iglesias.
already have hechavarria. they’re basically clones of each other.
I’d rather Enrique.
It probably ends up being Zach Stewart and either Brandon Workman or Stolmy Pimmentel for John Farrell and either John Tolisano or Brian Van Kirk.
I hope he does get traded
he’ll prob get david ortiz to try to steal second with 2 outs in the ninth in a 1 run game .
LOL Actually, in Strat-O-Matic, that is probably the best move available. Epecially given Rasmus’s slump.
I think a lot of things indicate Farrell is about to be traded.
Demote him back to pitching coach. At least he was good in that role…
Whatever anyone’s views on the subject I think I speak for 90% of Jays fans in just wanting this Farrell nonsense to be over with. Either he goes or stays, I don’t even care.
Stoeten?
I sat 5 rows behind him at a game once, does that count? He looked like what would happen if you took a CIA informant and made him live in a mountain cabin for a year without shaving equipment.
Marcum is such a lateral move.
how?
he’s historically been terrible against the AL East.
is he an upgrade in this pitching staff? Yes, of course but that doesn’t say much…they should aim higher.
has he been terrible against he AL east, or just worse against better offensive teams, like all pitchers are?
not all pitchers are..
and not all pitchers have a 6+ era vs the yankees. .
I like marcum, nice guy, great changeup. but its just not good enough.
you already have happ and romero penciled in to the rotation next year, thats 2 spots already given to question marks.. it would be nice to go for someone more elite.
name a pitcher who has better career numbers (in a decent sample size) against good offenses compared to other opponents. even halladay has a 5+ ERA vs texas and a 4.39 ERA vs boston career. i’m cherry picking, but the point is i really dont think there’s anything to the marcum vs. AL East myth, other than that pitchers do worse against better competition. actually his numbers vs the non-yankees members of the AL East actually arent that bad. i doubt many of the other options available (apart from greinke) could do better.
i would never advocate the jays signing marcum and calling it a day this the offseason, but he’s a quality, realistic option.
his numbers vs the non yankees team is actually not bad?
nop
he has bad numbers vs every team in the AL east including baltimore, the only team he performed to career averages was the rays.
its indicative of the type of pitcher he is and the type of offenses in our division. soft tossing changeup artists just don’t survive here.
everybody forgets Morrow is a question mark as well, He hasn’t pitched a full year yet, has had 2 season’s marred by injury and in my opinion has been inconsistent
His inconsistent seasons are pretty good.
really they are? this season in 21 starts was his best season.. Without getting into the sabermetrics, Morrow 2010-(26 starts) 10-7 4.49era, 1.38whip, 2011-(30 starts) 11-11 4.72era, 1.28whip.. 2012- (21 starts) 10-7 2.96era 1.15whip.. Looking at these numbers doesn’t scream good or consistent.. Everyone gets mezmorized by his 2-3 great starts in a row then forget he will go 2-3 bad starts in a row.. I see him right now as an A.J Burnett clone
ya, but it is the skipping over the advanced metrics that makes you miss the good.
dont start
If you want to be this nitpicky, every player in baseball is a “question mark”. Anyone at any time can suffer an injury, start drinking heavily, eat too many doughnuts, get indigestion before games, have a kid, a breakup, parents die…(maybe not all at the same time, but what I’m saying is that no player is a robot you can just set to “kill” and have it work)
That is true and missing the point completely.. Look at his numbers and you will see a good 3rd starter BUT not a legit ace as everyone claims him to be.. IF he pitches to his ability and stays consistent then he might prove to be an ace..
Maybe he’ll calm Romero and give him someone to look up to. Romero is clearly not an ace. The Jays need more than one starter anyhow.
veteran leadership is overrated.
-vizquel
I agree that they should aim higher, but I’d be fine with bringing back Marcum provided that he is the second-best pitcher that the Jays acquire this off-season.
Compensation for a manager with a sub 500 record?
this is like saying joe girardi is a good manager because he has winning records.
Record isn’t always the best way to judge managers
As much as I liked Marcum when he was with the Jays I just don’t see the need for him now, the Jays need 2 top of the rotation starters, I see Marcum as more of a 3rd-4th starter..
There is definitely space in anyone’s rotation for a Shaun Marcum.
Or on anyone’s DL.
So Marcum is willing to pitch anywhere that gives him a shot at the playoffs, but he wants to pitch in Toronto?
Id take alomar or fasano before butter. I like butter in his role
+1000 for the Mustache.
I agree. Farrell is ok but no demigod that some make him out to be. But if Alex can squeeze red sox for blue chip then that’s awesome.