Royals Rumors: Greinke, Francoeur

Who would the Braves want in Addition to Arroyo for Franceur? Bailey? Thompson?

Brian: Wantagh, NY: MLBtraderumors.com is reporting the braves and royals are considering a Zach Greinke for Jeff Francoeur. Could this be a worse trade for the Royals? Getting another player, let alone an outfielder, with a painfully low OBP.

Keith Law: (2:22 PM ET ) That was reported a few weeks ago and shot down by both GMs. Wren said to me at the GM meetings that it had no basis and there hadn't been talks about Francoeur. So you'll have to forgive me if I'm a little skeptical.

"That's pretty much the only Greinke rumor we've heard in recent weeks."

...And hopefully the last. Also sick of hearing backseat GMs offering to trade their garbage for Zack. Any deal with the Nats for Greinke would have to start with Zimmerman. Unrealistic yes, but in all reality, that's probably what it would take for them to be blown away.

Who would the Braves want in Addition to Arroyo for Franceur? Bailey? Thompson?

Jay Bruce and or Edison Volquez...ha

I'd trade the Reds Francouer for a bag of balls and a PTBNL.

I'd give Guillen and Teahen to Atlanta for Francoeur and Escobar. I'd even give Guillen adn DeJesus for Francoeur and Escobar... Unfortunately for me though, Dayton Moore has yet to ask for my input on any possible trades.

I think Yunel has more value than Guillen and Teahen combined. Throw in your ace and maybe you have yourselves a deal.

Oh...almost forgot John Buck! You can have him for a PTBNN (Player to be named never) and a fungo bat.

Horrible may be a bit strong. A good chunk of your fan base doesn't even want Frenchy on your team. So by that rationale, (which isn't mine per say) you would be getting 2 good players for one budding star in Yunel. I'm not saying ATL would do it, I'm just saying it's not "horrible"

The trades you suggested are "horrible" for the Braves. Guillen is very expensive and a very mediocre corner outfielder and would be a salary dump, Teahen was very comparable to Frenchy last year ,but he is 3 years older than Frency and hasn't lived up to his promise while Frency has shown he is capable of driving in 100 runs and hitting 30 homers. DeJesus is the only player that would be worth trading for but he isn't worth Escobar who is a very good defensive ss that should hit around 300 and could hit around 15-20 homers and is under team control for 4-5 more years. Definitely a "horrible" trade for the Braves.

If the Braves could trade Frenchy by all means do it. Especially for an ace. Royals fans yall can have him. He seems to come up to the plate every time a runner is in scoring position, and some how finds a way to not bring him in. TAKE HIM PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Last year yes, but the two years before he was the most "clutch" hitter in the game with RISP. That's why its a pretty dumb thing to look at when judging performance.

"I really wanted the braves to try and package flowers and johnson as a start for a greinke."

"If the Braves could trade Frenchy by all means do it. Especially for an ace."

"I think Yunel has more value than Guillen and Teahen combined. Throw in your ace and maybe you have yourselves a deal."

"Without giving up Grienke, I don't think the Braves would even consider trading Yunel to the Royals."

God, these Braves posts are getting difficult to read, and not just in this thread.

(I know, I know. The Cubs posts are bad, too. That's been well documented. But that doesn't excuse you guys from being irrational.)

How is my post bad? I said it would clearly take more than just Yunel for the Braves to get Grienke. What I was pointing out is that the Royals other young, valuable players play a position where we are already set (1B, 3B, and CL), so there is no way the Braves would consider moving Escobar in a deal to the Royals unless Grienke was coming the other way.

I enjoy talking about this stuff, especially w/the meeting coming up next week, but I believe we are kind of spinning our wheels here, because Greinke simply WILL NOT get traded, and the reason for that is the Royals asking price will be such that nobody would likely give what we are going to ask, therefore he isn't moving. For the Royals to consider it, you'd have to give Yunel, and McCann, and a starting pitching prospect. You Braves fans want to part w/those 2 guys? I'm sure you don't, and therefore it's not worth talking about, because all that will happen is each side thinking the other one's crazy.

Oh I understand it very clearly.. My point is that Dayton likely believes very strongly in the idea that he can sign Greinke to a long term extension, and if he didn't believe that he would be out there shopping him while he could still retain max trade value w/the time he has left on his contract. I can pretty well guarantee you that every conversation that Dayton has about trading Zack is being originated on the other end of the phone, not from Dayton. So w/that said, if Dayton is certain he can resign Zack long term, than he would have to be overwhelmed to the tune of McCann and Escobar to do it. That, my friend is why I said we are spinning our wheels here. My theory is that Dayton in pretty certain he can resign Zack, and therefore Greinke w/a long term contract attached to him may be worth 2 guys like McCann and Escobar, but obviously w/out the years added on he's not. And since he currently isn't signed long term, nobody would give Dayton what he wants, and Dayton won't trade him for less. Therefore, the entire discussion is futile.

Look, the 10th best SP in the AL clearly is not worth the 2nd best C in baseball. Besides, when Grienke is resigned he will be payed around market value, as opposed to McCann is only earning ~7 million a year for the next 5 years.

You clearly just don't get the actual value of players. McCann is likely one of the 10 most valuable assets in the league right now as a young player who is elite at a premium position and signed way below market value for a long time. Grienke is a very good young pitcher, but he is clearly not in the same league as McCann in terms of value.

You already proved you don't really know what you're talking about. That Teahen and Guillen for Frenchy and Escobar is one of the most asinine trade ideas I've seen on this site, and that's saying something. Escobar is one of the better young SS in the game and he's under team control for dirt cheap for the next 5 years, but you seem to think 2 corner OF who both had OPS+ below 100 (one of whom is incredibly overpaid) is enough to get him and Frenchy?

You still don't get what I'm saying Pal. I don't think that the Braves would ever do a Greinke for Escobar and McCann deal, especially since Greinke only has 2 yrs left. What I'm telling you is that Dayton wouldn't do it for less, and therefore nobody is going to be trading for Zack Greinke!!! Why is this so hard to understand? I'm not saying that it would be a good move for Atlanta, all I am saying is that Greinke isn't going anywhere for less than 2 guys like that, and nobody is going to give up 2 players like that for Zack at this point, and therefore Zack is staying put. That's the oly point I'm trying to make here. Am I clear yet?

I understand what you're saying completely, but if DM does value Grienke so highly that he wouldn't trade him Brian McCann straight up, the Royals should clearly go ahead and fire him now because he has no idea what he's doing or how to value players.

If someone offers you an elite young player at a premium position that's signed longterm below market value for a very good, but certainly not elite, starting pitcher you make the trade and laugh all the way to the bank.

If DM wants to ask for the moon when the Braves call, Brian McCann would be a good place to start. If he tried starting with McCann, Escobar, and a SP prospect, he probably wouldn't even finsih before the line went dead and he'd likely be the laughing stock of the winter meetings.

In regard to your other condescending statement about the Guillen trade, you neglected to mention that I said I would include DeJesus instead. Basically that is DeJesus for Escobar, and Guillen for Francoeur. Most Braves fans don't even want Frenchy. I'm not saying that they'd be turning cartwheels about Guillen, but if the Royals ate part of his salary, I'm pretty sure a lot of Atlanta fans would rather have him than Frenchy. As for the DeJesus for Escobar breakdown, I would rather have Escobar, but it's not as if these two players are light years apart in talent and ability. Clearly this trade would seem to be more attractive to the Royals than it is the Braves, but hey, I'm a Royals fan, I want to do trades that I feel like my team got the best of, who doesn't? I'm not even certain that you and I are disagreeing in principle here, but for whatever reason you have felt the need to insult me. Whatever dude, but my point was pretty clear. Greinke isn't going anywhere. All you could read into it was that I thought the Braves should send Escobar and McCann over for him. I never thought that was the case, all I was saying is that without that type of return Dayton won't trade Zack. Since that type of return isn't being offered up out there, you can pretty well rest assured that Zack is going nowhere. That's it, that's all...

No that deal still clearly makes no sense. Guillen doesn't provide much more than Frenchy and he has no upside, so unless you guys were eating whole contract that doesn't even begin to make sense.

As for Escobar for DeJesus, you once again prove you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to player value. DeJesus may provide similar offense to Escobar, but he doesn't play a premium position on defense (even when in CF), he doesn't even play LF especially well, he's not young, and he's only under team control for 3 more years (compared to 5 for Escobar).

If you actually think DeJesus is actually worth anything close to Escobar, then your love for the Royals is clearly blinding you.

Look I understand the Yunel is a fine player and all, but his offensive numbers, though good haven't yet to approach great. DeJesus for Hanley, now that would be foolish. DeJesus for Reyes? Ridiculous! But DeJesus for Escobar isn't that far fetched. 10 HR and 60 RBI isn't any better than Avilles, and they are very close in age. I only say that because you are acting as if Escobar is the greatest thing since sliced bread, when in reality he isn't really much better than what we've got, the move would just allow Avilles to shift to 2nd, as Escobar profiles as a better defensive SS, but not by that much. There are plenty of teams around MLB that would like to have DeJesus.

Do I think Escobar is worth more? Yes, but not by the margin you are insinuating. I seriously doubt that if that trade went down people all over the nation would be laughing at the Braves saying, boy the Royals really pulled one over on them.

Finally, your comment about upside isn't always relevant either. If the Royals sent their last 3 1st round picks to the Cards for Pujols, do you think anyone would be asking about what kind of upside he has? He's a veteran player and you know what you're getting. Same is true for Guillen's numbers, NOT THAT I'M TRYING TO COMPARE GUILLEN AND PUJOLS! But whenever you trade a young guy for a veteran, the team getting the youngster is looking for upside, whereas the team getting the vet is looking for stability and predictability. I'm not sure that's where the Braves are right now, but I do know there's a real decent chance that over the next 3-4 years Guillen will put up better numbers than Frenchy. Care to take that bet?

Quit giving me this "premium position" bullshit. There is no such thing as a premium position. Every position is just as important as the other. If player doesn't play well at a position effect the whole team. Granted more balls are hit to SS than any other position, but if an outfielder drops a fly ball deep in the gap then doesn't the player who hit it end up at 3rd or even home? In my book that almost every time translates into a run. If the ss boots the ball that ends up in what? A single.

GM's also really don't care about position because look at the recent moves the Royals have made. They sent two set up men for everyday players. They send two RELIEF PITCHERS for two very solid (in their own unique ways) players. GM's fill holes as needed. If your set up man is giving up 3 runs in the eighth I'm pretty sure that effects the team equally. Premium positions do not exist in baseball.

Premium positions are those where its tougher to find a good hitter. There are obviously far fewer people who can play C or SS than there are people who can play 1B, so the average 1B is going to be a better hitter than the average C or SS because teams can draw from a much larger pool of players.

Hey Nixa..

Doubt you will still be paying attention to this post, but check out this from Jason Stark. Still think I'm a fool on my Greinke remarks??

ESPN's Jayson Stark is reporting that the Royals are asking for the world for Zack Greinke which means three major league players and two prospects. Holy crap, that's a package, but what it really means is the Royals aren't shopping Greinke. They'll listen, but you better come prepared with some quality because he's not going to come cheap. I love Greinke, but if some team is desperate enough for starting pitching that they come up with a quality package like that, how can you say no?