Rosenthal On Melky, Matthews, Pedro, Ohman

If Pedro drops down to 1 or 2, then he is on the Mets, and Livan is in the pen, and Redding is in the minors.

I'd rather the Sox trade for Brett Gardner but that's probably not gonna happen. I'd be happy with almost anything at this point, I like that Rosenthal keeps bringing things up so Kenny can keep getting grilled about it. Standing pat is not gonna fly.

surely Ohman's worth 2M. Braves should dig deep.

GMJ to the Sox makes absolutely no sense. Why trade for a CF'er who can field but cant hit? They already have that in Brian Anderson.......accept Anderson is making chump change in comparison with GMJ's millions.

The CF answer is not GMJ or Melky...don't want 'em, don't want to give anything up for them...just go with what you got KW, don't just get somebody else's problem to say you did something.Wait a month, bring up Beckham and move Ramirez to CF

So many needs for the White Sox, in a ideal world, you trade for Melky for air and somehow land a 5th starter.

"How could the Chisox the entire off season and ST allowed this to happen and not gotten SOMEBODY to play the position, not an all star, just a major league caliber player. "

Something Melky really isn't. Cabrera wouldn't even be in the majors if Damon could still handle center fielder. Cabrera is neither a quality bat nor an above average fielder, he's the definition of AAAA and trading for him would be a fool's errand.

Actually anyone who thinks "The Melkman" is worth anything is full of hot air. For all the Bronx Hype he's still a AAAA guy at best!

"Melky had a down year last year...but is still only 24, a switch hitter with some pop and has already led the AL in assists. Doubtful he's a superstar in the making, but his D and cannon arm alone make him worth more than just "air"."

He's been an everyday player for 3 years and has only regressed the past 2. He's a terrible right handed hitter. He has no pop (hasn't slugged over 400).

He is worth more than air but he's had enough time to show what he is and that is a reserve OF.

I do think the Angels and White Sox could hook up on some sort of a deal. Here is how I would start the deal.

Take Konerko and Matthews as the big salary guys.

Konerko has 2/24 left
Matthews has 3/33 left

Konerko had a mediocre last season, posting an OPS+ of 102 (barely above LA). He was also injured missing 40 games. His 2007 season was fine (OPS+ of 116) but nearly 20 points lower than his previous 2 seasons. It's fair to say Konerko is showing signs of major performance degradation.

Matthews was awful in 08. He was injured and ineffective (although his injury was directly responsible for a portion of his ineffectiveness). Matthews was slightly below LA with the bat in 2007 (OPS+ of 93). That came on the heels of his one great year in 2006 (OPS+ 121).

I think it's entirely fair to say that Konerko as a 1st baseman is more valuable than GMJ as a CF. However, the gap isn't that large. GMJ appears still capable of posting an OPS+ close to 100 while Konerko is sliding. How quickly he slides is the real question.

Trading straight up simply won't work. So, we throw in another player. We add Kendry Morales to the trade. Morales costs nothing and immediately fills in Konerko's spot. Kendry is an unproven commodity but has plenty of upside.

Finally, you adjust the dollars. Have the Angels eat $4-5m of Matthews contract.

That brings the deal to:

Chicago gives up Konerko (2/$24m)
and receives
Matthews (3/$33) + Morales + $5m

The Angels dump the extra contract in the OF and get an established power hitter at 1B. The White Sox plug a hole in CF, save some money and get a young, controllable 1st baseman.

bjsguess-

I really don't think there's any way the White Sox make that deal.

By the time Konerko's contract has ran up, it's highly likely than Brandon Allen or Dayan Viciedo will be ready to take over, and I just really, really hate the idea of bringing GMJ and his crap contract to Chicago.

Matthews has never really been that good, he received an awfully huge amount of luck in 2006, and his defense really isn't good anymore. The upgrade from Anderson/Wise to Matthews is near nothing, and while I think Kendry Morales is an interesting piece, for sure, I also think Konerko is bound to bounce back some and regain some of his value.

I'd actually rather have Melky. While he's not the leadoff hitter they need, he plays solid defense and has shown the ability to get on base a little.

I'd rather keep Konerko, see what he does this year, look for different (cheaper!!!) solutions for center, and assume that one of Viciedo/Allen will take over at first when Konerko's contract runs up.

Konerko looked like his old self in the second half last year (.270/.374/.535), despite a low BABIP (.255 vs. .281 career). Morales hasn't shown that he can hit big-league pitching yet - not to say he won't, but that's a huge step down at 1B for the short term. GMJ's and Konerko's salaries match up pretty well, but I don't see that happening.

"Kendry Morales sucks!"

You are kidding, right? Morales is one of the best pure hitting prospects in all of baseball. That, and he can play 3B and the OF corners. Personally, I think the Angels would be really unwise to give up on Morales now, because I believe he is primed to hit .310/.360/.480 out of the box.

"I'll bet Kenny Lofton could roll out of bed tomorrow and easily outhit Matthews in the leadoff slot. He's still looking to play, isn't he? Why not give the guy a million bucks and see what he can do?"

Not for power and Kenny can't play CF anymore.

"Kendry Morales sucks!"

You are kidding, right? Morales is one of the best pure hitting prospects in all of baseball. That, and he can play 3B and the OF corners. Personally, I think the Angels would be really unwise to give up on Morales now, because I believe he is primed to hit .310/.360/.480 out of the box.

"I'll bet Kenny Lofton could roll out of bed tomorrow and easily outhit Matthews in the leadoff slot. He's still looking to play, isn't he? Why not give the guy a million bucks and see what he can do?"

Not for power and Kenny can't play CF anymore.

Posted by: AA | March 25, 2009 at 06:42 PM

AA,

With the line you just gave us on Morales avg/obp/ops... that is horrible for a position that is a power position. I'd also be willing to bet you my white sox season tickets (they are great seats by the way) that Morales hits nowhere near .310 and is even further away from a .360 obp. I don't know if he can play 3B, and the corner OFs or not, but if he can he sounds like he'd make a decent utility player...exactly what he probably will be or the next Mark Grace

"The second gripe is all the nonsense Yankee fans have tried to shove down our throats the past 3 years. We are tired of hearing about your over-hyped players. You know - the same guys who have told us that Kennedy is a top of the rotation starter. It gets really old to hear the same garbage year after year".

First of all...where do Yankee fans "shove players down your throat"? A Yankees thread where Yankees fans are discussing players...you show up for some odd reason and then get pi$$ed about what you read. Don't like what Yankee fans have to say...don't go onto Yankee threads...problem solved!

Secondly, ALL fans think their teams prospects can amount to something because they follow them through the system and listen to the internal hopes.

Thirdly, who has been "over-hyped" thus far? Joba? Hughes? Cano? Veras? Coke? Ramirez? Aceves? All of them have performed pretty well when healthy. Kennedy...whom you mentioned...has been in pro ball a TOTAL of two years...shot up thru A, AA and AAA in one summer...dominating every stop along the way in 2007 and then went 1-0 1.90 in 3 starts with the Yankees. YES... last year he regressed majorly and in 9 WHOLE starts had an 8.17 era. However, only an idiot would think a 24 year old with two total years in pro ball is now "over-hyped" and a piece of sheet because he had a 9 game set-back. The verdict is still out...he may be a decent starter, he may not. Nine good game or nine bad ones WON'T decide that.

You can pick out MANY stud pitchers baseball cards and see where they pitched well in a cup-o-coffee...then struggled...then came back and pitched well once they straightened themselves out. It's not a new concept.

AA,

While I won't disagree with you about what you said about Kenny Lofton not being able to play CF anymore and not being to outhit GMJ for power... but I'd like to know what year you remember Kenny Lofton being a power hitter

Posted by: xxgochisox09 | March 25, 2009 at 07:14 PM

Sorry my typing has been horrible tonight. I think Im thinking faster then I can type and leaving words out

Ohman seems stubborn enough to try and hold out for what he wants as opposed to what he can get. I remember him nearly going to arb with the Cubs his last year there because he asked for more than he probably should have. I can't fault him for wanting to do the best he can but at some point he needs to be realistic and accept the best offer available to him and get in camp. He's already behind everyone else.

Kendry Morales hasn't proven himself in the bigs? Genius guys. He's had a total of 377 major league AB's. Of course he hasn't proven he can hit in the majors. You need to play in the majors before you can prove that you can hit in the majors. He has however, hit in the minors just fine. Posted a 919 OPS in 2008 and has a career minor league OPS of 901. Take spring training for what it is but so far he has accumulated a BA over 300 and shown good power. It's reasonable to expect an OPS anywhere between 800 and 850 (which is right around Konerko's last 2 years).

Hate on Matthews all you want. Take you chances - I'm sure it will work out just fine.

Dewayne Wise has never had more than 162 AB's in a season (age 30). His career OPS is 639.

Then you have Anderson. 27 YO, has a career OBP of 277 (OPS of 656). He has accumalated 600 AB's over the past 4 seasons in the bigs. His AAA OPS is sub 800 over 2 years.

Finally, you have Jerry Owens. A guy with a subpar OBP of 321 and an even LOWER SLG% of 312. That's over nearly 400 AB's. He'll be 28YO. Over 6 years he sported a career Minor League OPS of 718.

Good luck with that. 3 guys that have subpar career minor league records. None of whom have done ANYTHING in the majors.

Posted by: bjsguess | March 25, 2009 at 08:45 PM

Bjsguess,

You contradict yourself horribly it's not even funny in the post above.

You talk about how bad the white sox CFs are and think they should trade for a more proven guy like GMJ, but then in the same post you argue the white sox should trade a proven guy like Konerko for an unproven guy like Morales. Morales has shown as much as Owens and Anderson in the majors so far NOTHING. I'm glad Morales is having a good spring training, so is this the 5th or 6th year he's looked great in spring training then?

Here's the even more absurd part.. the white sox do need CF help. but the trade you suggest is stupid and one you can make on MLB the Show if it makes you feel better. You keep saying Konerko is going to decline, konerko is going to decline...GMJ ALREADY HAS DECLINED

The only thing I can think of is you must be a relative of GMJ. Next time you see him, see if he'll loan a bit of the $15 million he makes so you can buy a book and brush up on your baseball sense

"If Pedro drops down to 1 or 2, then he is on the Mets, and Livan is in the pen, and Redding is in the minors. "

I'll agree with that for the most part, but don't forget Redding has a Major League deal. Ideally, this would happen sooner than later. Pedro won't be ready for opening day at this point, but if he could be ready after a week or two, my guess is Livan stays in the minors and gets left there and Redding starts the season on the DL and slots into the pen when he comes off.

I don't really think this is all that big a deal though. Livan got off to a very good start last year and has looked sharp enough. At the very least, he should be a fine 5th starter for the first half, at which point you can either hope Niese is ready or evaluate the deadline trade market if you need to. Pedro obviously has more upside, but I'm not getting particularly excited about a few dominant innings against the Netherlands. But at this point I'm not really so worried about guaranteeing him a roster spot out of some misguided sense of loyalty either, its become clear he'll have to earn that status wherever he winds up.

"Rosenthal says the Yankees are open to moving Melky Cabrera, and opines that the White Sox would be a perfect fit. Trading Cabrera would open up the Yankees' outfield picture for sure, but leave them shakier in center with Brett Gardner and Nick Swisher."

+++ Would be nice if Rosenthal would stop making $h!t up, first it was the Yankees were going to trade Nady/Swisher, now its they will move Cabrera to free up the outfield. Newsflash dead wrong.

Matsui, Damon, Nady are all FA at the end of the season, that will serve to free up something for sure. There is no reason this season the Yankees can't carry Cabrera and Swisher. Melky is insignificant in the broader picture.

He will be used as a reserve late in games, to pinch run, make starts in CF on some days, don't know when Gardner became Joe Dimaggio. Gardner is a nice young player but I doubt Cashman is carried away by him. He'll keep both of these guys on their toes to push each other over the season. Also Cabrera can be a late game defensive replacement for Johnny Damon in LF, to have a faster late inning outfield, with better defense, stronger arms. Quite a few times last season the Yankees would start Gardner in CF, with Damon in LF and late in the game replace Damon with Cabrera, sometimes shifting Cabrera to CF and Gardner to LF, because of Melky's arm.

Rostenthal should seriously stop making $h!+ up. Shouldn't he be talking about Derek Jeter's range or age or some more dumb crap. The Yankees have nothing to lose by keeping Cabrera as a reserve OF and rotating him with Damon in LF and Garnder in CF to keep them fresh and productive over the course of a long season. Nady and Swisher will figure themselves out in RF.

For as much as people laugh at the Yankees bench it is nice to know that late in the game they can pinch run with Cabrera, pinch hit with Swisher and make defensive replacements. All that goes into winning, in baseball no team stays healthy from beginning to end for 162 games.

Mac Fan . .when did Melky Become Joe D ??

The Yanks don't NEED Melky . Yes Matsui , Damon , And Nady are free agents . But we can deal with that next season. The Yanks will resign one of the three .and if Gardner fails , big deal Austin Jackson will be up maybe mid season or next. Plus they'll grab a free agent to play outfield . But thats all next year .

This Year. Gardner won the competition.
And whats your idea of Melky becoming a late inning base runner .. When did he become rickey henderson . .He's not that fast . doesn't steal bases . and is overall a HORRIBLE base runner

What does Melky Offer. he couldn't hit water if he fell off the boat .. He has a great arm . .thats it .

Gardner offers SPEED . Game Changing Speed .

Is there writing about a Konerko/Mathews swap? Cause if its just fans talking theres about 99% chance it wont happen.

And that GMjr. contrace for the angels a few years back is looking more and more horrible every day. That's a pretty rare mistake for the Angels. Besides giving up Kotchman and Marek to my Braves for 2 months of Teixera.

Posted by: bravesfansc | March 26, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Braves,

It was mentioned in this rumor that this comment thread is about. The discussion has been with some delirious guy, who not only thinks GMJ is a great player, but thinks the sox should trade konerko to get him. He references the sox needing CF help because all their guys have proven nothing at the major league level (which he is right about) but then in the same post expects the sox to trade a proven player like konerko for a guy who has done nothing at the majors like Kendry Morales. He seems to think cause Morales has had a great spring we should begin the write in campaign for the all-star game for him.

Basically he wants them to make a minimal upgrade in CF and get GMJ (who not only sucks, but is 34 and coming off knee surgery) and then potentially make a major downgrade at first in the same trade. To me it's like buying a car, turbocharging it and then changing the engine from an 8 to 4 cylinder... It's possible GMJ could be traded to the sox, but I'll almost guarentee it wont be for anyone like Konerko and the angels are going to have to pay at least 8 of his 11 million dollar a year salary

I've decided this guy has to either be a relative of Kendry Morales, GMJ's agent or a huge angels fan that really, really wants konerko.

Mac Fan . .when did Melky Become Joe D ??

The Yanks don't NEED Melky . Yes Matsui , Damon , And Nady are free agents . But we can deal with that next season. The Yanks will resign one of the three .and if Gardner fails , big deal Austin Jackson will be up maybe mid season or next. Plus they'll grab a free agent to play outfield . But thats all next year .

This Year. Gardner won the competition.
And whats your idea of Melky becoming a late inning base runner .. When did he become rickey henderson . .He's not that fast . doesn't steal bases . and is overall a HORRIBLE base runner

What does Melky Offer. he couldn't hit water if he fell off the boat .. He has a great arm . .thats it .

Gardner offers SPEED . Game Changing Speed .

++++ I think you need to read the post again, I am not a Melky fan, what I am saying is that it provides flexibility late in the game for the Yankees having him on the bench. He is certainly faster than Swisher, Molina, Ransom, Berroa or any of the guys on the bench that is my point as a pinch runner, he is a solid glove and can be used in place of Damon late in games because of his stronger arm.

What I am suggesting is that he can fit a role on this team this season. The only way trading him made sense is if Matsui was going to play the oufield and on two bum knees Girardi has said that Matsui may only play the field in interleague play.

You seem to be under the assumption that I am a Melky fanboy, I'm not by any stretch, I know he can't hit to save his life, but he can function as a decent bench player because of the defensive qualities I mentioned and he is faster than any of the other guys on the bench, so Ricky Henderson or not is besides the point.

If Melky is traded the bench is

Molina - C

Ranson - IF (when Arod returns)

Swisher - OF/IF

that is not much of a flexible bench dude, unless you expect all the starters to play for 162 games with no injuries and play every inning of every game from the beginning to end, with no strategic moves by Girardi late in the game.

My point is Melky provides late game flexibility, not offensively, but defensively and on the bases.

Why are you mentioning Gardner, Gardner will be the everyday starter as things currently stand, however he is not part of the equation I'm discussing the role of Melky for, a bench player who gives the Yankees options late on in the game.

Isn't it better to have Melky running the bases late instead of Matsui, Nady, Teixeira, even Swisher. Isn't it better to have Melky in a close game late in LF instead of Johnny Damon.

I'm talking about Melky in a bench role, you seem to think I'm implying he should be a starter, which I don't by any stretch. That was my point.

"However, he's absolutely shown ability to be a useful reserve player."

That's beeen my point all along about this Melky subject, by no means do I think he should be the everday starter, but in a bench role he doesn't hurt. There is a lot of slow footed guys in the middle of the Yankees order, such as

Teixeira

Matsui

Posada

Nady

Having Swisher and Cabera on the team's bench allows the Yankees to pinch run for one of those guys above with Melky, use Swisher to replace a Teixeira, Swisher/Melky to replace Nady, Molina to replace Posada. Melky to replace Damon in the field

It may not be a big deal but that flexibility may mean an extra couple of late wins because of strategic moves. That is important in what will amount to a very close division race all year long.

Trading Melky would make a thin Yankees bench even thinner. What are we going to do trade Melky and keep Berroa, he of the god awful defense in the IF.

"The discussion has been with some delirious guy, who not only thinks GMJ is a great player, but thinks the sox should trade konerko to get him. He references the sox needing CF help because all their guys have proven nothing at the major league level (which he is right about) but then in the same post expects the sox to trade a proven player like konerko for a guy who has done nothing at the majors like Kendry Morales. He seems to think cause Morales has had a great spring we should begin the write in campaign for the all-star game for him."

Actually, bjsguess is a pretty educated poster, it's just that you can see a little bias in his suggestion.

He clearly thinks too much of Matthews, a guy that's very talented, but outside of one great season, he's never been a terribly good player.

His once great defense has declined a lot, and he's posted UZR's of -7.1 and -8.9 the past two years.

He gets some walks, but he's always had issues with contact, and every good offensive year he's had has been fueled by a high BABIP. Now that he's slowing down and hitting less line drives, his BABIP will likely never hit those levels again, and I honestly think his upside is close to what he did in 2007 in his first year in LA.

I'm open to dealing Konerko, he's a good player but he's a tad overpaid, but I really don't think Gary Matthews is even close to the best option they have, especially when factoring in his HORRIBLE (!!!) contract.

And honestly, Morales does have some pretty legitimate offensive upside. He's consistently mashed AAA, and outside of 2007, his time in the majors has been plagued by godawful luck. He's solid defensively, makes a lot of contact, and has solid power. But he is getting rather old, and he really needs to prove himself now or be considered a bust. And Morales CANNOT play an adequate defensive third base, as bjsguess had claimed.

xxgochisox - You really need to pay more attention to posts. I never said Kenny Lofton was a power hitter. While those of us old enough to have watched his whole career know he had a fair bit of pop for a speed demon, he was hardly a power hitter and more of the 1990s version of Carl Crawford in CF.

I was saying that GMJ has more power than Lofton and is still able to play a respectable CF when healthy, while Lofton has little power left and his game doesn't really play in center any more.

"With the line you just gave us on Morales avg/obp/ops... that is horrible for a position that is a power position."

That wasn't the line. It would be mathematically impossible to put up a .480 OPS with a .310 AVG and a .360 OBP. The minimum, if you have a pure singles hitter, the OPS would be .670. The third slash line I gave you was the traditional third slash line, which is slugging. A line of .310/.360/.480 would translate to an OPS of .840 with a healthy portion of the OBP coming from AVG, which is better than coming from walks and HBP.

"Are we thinking about the same Morales here?"

Yeah, the guy who absolutely raked through the minors and is raking in spring training. If MLEs actually meant something in reality, Albert Pujols would have an OPS of .810 and Brandon Wood would have come out dominating last year. The truth is, you don't know how a player will perform until they hit the majors and get truly consistent playing time. Until then, they are nothing more than a prospect(ive major league player).

P.S. Kendry Morals never “raked” in the minors. “Raking” would be an OPS over 1.000 (like many, many superior talents provide). Kendry struggled to post an OPS over .900. Terry Evans has “raked” in the minors more than Kendry Morales ever has, and that is rather sad when you think about it.

"Are we thinking about the same Morales here?"

Yeah, the guy who absolutely raked through the minors and is raking in spring training. If MLEs actually meant something in reality, Albert Pujols would have an OPS of .810 and Brandon Wood would have come out dominating last year. The truth is, you don't know how a player will perform until they hit the majors and get truly consistent playing time. Until then, they are nothing more than a prospect(ive major league player).

AA,

One last thing.. a 26 year old guy who consistently rakes in the minors and in spring training (which Morales hasn't done) but let's let him use it for his argument and can't get consistent playng time is not called a prospect. He's called a bust or a AAAA guy... The angels showed all they thought about Kendry Morales last year when they traded for a 2 month rental player in Mark Texiera.

"a 26 year old guy who consistently rakes in the minors and in spring training (which Morales hasn't done)"

.382/.407/.618

Not raking at all this spring, huh?

"but let's let him use it for his argument and can't get consistent playng time is not called a prospect. He's called a bust or a AAAA guy..."

AAAA guys and busts get their chances in the majors. Morales has had nothing resembling a consistent chance.

"The angels showed all they thought about Kendry Morales last year when they traded for a 2 month rental player in Mark Texiera."

Um. Morales was already blocked.

"Projections on Kendry Morales for 2009...

and you say .310/.360/.480/.840? You have to be a die-hard Angels fan, aren’t you?"

The projection systems are crap for projecting minors to majors. Other than James, they all are very hard on Matt Wieters, with CHONE projecting a .791 OPS. I don't think most people see that coming.

I'm not saying whether the guy will break out, but his ability is well known and he is certainly not in the sunset of his career like Konerko.

Enough with the Morales stuff. We can all agree he hasn't had a chance, but can some Angels' fans concede he hasn't exactly dazzled in the minors and even if you want to claim Kotchmna's defense made him unseatable, you will have a hrd time explaining how Morales could not unseat Juan Rivera's 2.46/.282/.438 from the DH role.

But even if people finally realize this is a bad deal does not mean the Angels and White Sox don't match up. Wouldn't a Reggie Willets/Josh Fields trade make more sense for both teams?

Willets could be the leadoff/CF guy the White Sox need, and if they give 3b to Betemit over Fields, they cna live with a few less solo home runs. And the Angels have Willets in the 5th/6th OF slot and Kendry Morales unchallenged at 1b. If nothing else, Fields represents a better place for depth given the inexperience in the Angels' corner INF spots, assuming Josh does not win the job over Morales outright.

Notin,

There isnt much else to talk about here, so why not speak on Morales? It is rarely ever done, and a nice change of pace off the normal players/rumors discussed to death.