Cafardo On Crawford, Lee, Upton, Dodgers

This week's Sunday Baseball Notes piece from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe is packed with juicy hot stove tidbits. According to one of Cafardo's major league sources, the Angels have had "serious talks" with Carl Crawford. The team's front office has been mum on the subject, but they've long been viewed as a strong potential suitor for the speedy outfielder. When five MLBTR writers predicted free agent destinations, all five guessed Crawford would sign with the Halos. Here are some of the other highlights from Cafardo's column:

  • "Word is" that the Yankees are currently willing to offer Cliff Lee about $115MM over five years. Cafardo says the Rangers are aiming to match whatever the bidding gets up to, while the Nationals are also still in the hunt. Earlier in the week, Nolan Ryan said he didn't expect Texas to be able to outbid the Yanks for Lee.
  • One National League scout said if he had limited trade chips to put toward a big bat, he'd acquire Adrian Gonzalez over Justin Upton. Gonzo is, as the scout notes, currently a "much better hitter," though he's also five years older than Upton and only under contract through 2011.
  • While Cafardo adds Kansas City to the list of teams who have "considerable interest" in Upton, we learned Friday that the 23-year-old can block a trade to the Royals.
  • The Dodgers would like to add a veteran "who can step up and be vocal when times are tough." Cafardo speculates that A.J. Pierzynski, Juan Uribe, or Johnny Damon could be a good fit.
  • The Dodgers are also considering signing a low-cost starter, and haven't ruled out bringing back Vicente Padilla.
  • "More and more teams" in need of middle infield help are eyeing Uribe.
  • The Nationals and Giants, in addition to the Orioles, have some interest in trading for Jason Bartlett. The Rays are looking for young bullpen help in return.
  • Mark Prior, attempting to make it back to the bigs, has three teams waiting on his decision, according to his agent, John Boggs.
  • Not all of the clubs who are showing interest in acquiring Marco Scutaro would necessarily use him at shortstop. The Dodgers could have interest in Scutaro as a second baseman, Cafardo says.


144 Responses to Cafardo On Crawford, Lee, Upton, Dodgers Leave a Reply

  1. Umm last I checked, Mark Prior has a minor league contract with the Texas Rangers to come to spring training. This was done before the season ended. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that is right.

    • brian310 5 years ago

      he opted out of that contract I believe

    • Luke Adams 5 years ago

      He did sign with the Rangers in September, but it was just for the 2010 season, so he could get some work in and the team could get a look at him. I imagine it could also be the kind of gesture that makes Texas the favorite to sign him this winter, if they want to.

      • TXHC 5 years ago

        Oh, that’s crazy I didn’t realize that. I thought he was still in our system.

  2. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    “The Dodgers would like to add a veteran “who can step up and be vocal when times are tough.””I’m sure Milton Bradley could be made available, he’s vocal when times are tough… of course he’s usually throwing a temper tantrum when times are tough but still he’s being vocal.

    • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

      I agree with you. I think the Mets could use someone like Milton…I think he would fit well there.

      • timmytwoshoezzz 5 years ago

        If by “fit well there” you mean that he would start fights (like K-Rob), yell and say stupid things while trying to incite more fights (like Tony Bernazard), cost a good deal of money while spending at minimum 25% of the season on the DL, and be unable to cope with the rigors of playing baseball in the biggest city in America, then yes, I agree that Milton Bradley would “fit well there”

        • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

          that is indeed what i meant. more of a joke.

    • BlueSkyLA 5 years ago

      If it’s just about scaring the younger players, they could always bring back Jeff Kent as a coach.

    • jgmaynard 5 years ago

      They could bring Millar out of retirement. That guy won’t shut up! LOL. ;O)

    • jgmaynard 5 years ago

      They could bring Millar out of retirement. That guy won’t shut up! LOL. ;O)

  3. bustersposey 5 years ago

    kc could put a strong offer on the table. they’re loaded with sp prospects, especially lhsp. i dont see them trading moustakas, hosmer, or myers. maybe butler/montgomery/dwyer?

    • What KC could offer is completely irrelevant considering Upton can block a trade there if he doesn’t want to play there.

      • bustersposey 5 years ago

        since when is relevance a prerequisite for posting on mlbtraderumors?

      • jb226 5 years ago

        It’s not irrelevant. The fact that somebody CAN block a trade doesn’t mean they WILL, and whether or not we ever get to that point is based on what again? Oh yeah, what KC could offer.

    • Nostraartist 5 years ago

      The Royals are one player away from competing?

      • bustersposey 5 years ago

        not this year… but they are on the come-up, and upton would be there for 5(i think) years. so i think they will compete while he’s there.

      • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

        They will be one of the best teams in Baseball in a couple of years.

        • Nostraartist 5 years ago

          Not if they trade off their best prospects for Upton, which was my point.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Ah. Gotcha. And that I do agree with. Although I will say this, the system is so incredibly deep, that if trading Butler and a pitching prospect meant acquiring a superstar, i’d do it.

        • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

          Can you really say that when Greinke probably won’t be there and none of their top pitching prospects have had a chance to really show anything at the mlb level and management being unlikely tospend on free agent pitchers?

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Yeah. Not every team can spend money like the Yankees. Teams actually have to develop and I think 3 of the 4 will be up next year and the rest in 2012.

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            Wow….umm….was that shot at the Yankees really necesarry? I know how small market teams need to operate, thanks. What I meant was that you made the statement that “They will be one of the best teams in Baseball in a couple of years”. That sounds OVERTLY homeristic of you, which is not usually your MO. I can see you saying they had reasons to be optimistic but to call them one of the best overall just had me wondering.Good luck to ’em though. They were a great franchize back in the 70’s and 80’s.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            First of all, sorry for what I said about the Yankees. And you, who I know is never homeristic or biased, I shouldn’t have said that. Seriously.

            But I tend to be an optimist for every team. I just really have a good feeling about the Royals. Hope you understand I just think that developing teams. Farm systems, spending big internationally and on the draft are things that winning teams have succeeded doing, thus, I think the Royals are the next to have Major League success from their farm system.

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            gotcha

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            Wow….umm….was that shot at the Yankees really necesarry? I know how small market teams need to operate, thanks. What I meant was that you made the statement that “They will be one of the best teams in Baseball in a couple of years”. That sounds OVERTLY homeristic of you, which is not usually your MO. I can see you saying they had reasons to be optimistic but to call them one of the best overall just had me wondering.Good luck to ’em though. They were a great franchize back in the 70’s and 80’s.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Yeah. Not every team can spend money like the Yankees. Teams actually have to develop and I think 3 of the 4 will be up next year and the rest in 2012.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            it’s based almost 100% on projection, but they have one of the strongest group of prospects i think any team has had in a few years.. they’ll get some really nice pieces for greinke. it’s not a sure thing by any stretch, but as far as teams that suck now that one could project to be great in 3-4 yrs, i don’t see a team better than kc. you’re right that they arent going to sign any major free agents, so if they can trade from a strength, lhsp, to land a special player like upton… who would NEVER go to kc otherwise.. i think that would be a strong move.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            it’s based almost 100% on projection, but they have one of the strongest group of prospects i think any team has had in a few years.. they’ll get some really nice pieces for greinke. it’s not a sure thing by any stretch, but as far as teams that suck now that one could project to be great in 3-4 yrs, i don’t see a team better than kc. you’re right that they arent going to sign any major free agents, so if they can trade from a strength, lhsp, to land a special player like upton… who would NEVER go to kc otherwise.. i think that would be a strong move.

          • If the Royals pull off a trade for Upton, Grinke will stay put. All he wants is some assurance that the Royals are tying to get better. He knows there’s talent in the pipe, but he’s tired of losing now. Add Upton, throw in Duffy, Colon, and Mustakas (all 3 will break the major league roster in 2011), and all the sudden this team has a completely different feel to it.

          • If the Royals pull off a trade for Upton, Grinke will stay put. All he wants is some assurance that the Royals are tying to get better. He knows there’s talent in the pipe, but he’s tired of losing now. Add Upton, throw in Duffy, Colon, and Mustakas (all 3 will break the major league roster in 2011), and all the sudden this team has a completely different feel to it.

    • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

      It would have to be something like Butler/Duffy/Simmons/Ventura

      • bustersposey 5 years ago

        dont think that’d do it. simmons and ventura are SOOO far away.

        • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

          I think at this point Montgomery is untouchable. I think that would do it though. Duffy is extremely underrated because Lamb and Montgomery are better but all 3 are still 3 of the top 10 pitching prospects in Baseball…If Duffy was in any other organization he’d be their #1 or #2 prospect…If I’m the Royals, I do that offer…Kevin Towers will probably say Butler/Duffy/Hardy/Simmons/D-Rob…I’d do that too.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            i disagree that montgomery is untouchable, especially if you’re not giving up moos, hosmer, myers. i’m a fan of duffy, but the fact that he pulled a greinke earlier this year has to be of at least mild concern. i think you have to give up montgomery or lamb, and i like lamb better so i put montgomery in the deal. i see you keep including simmons– i dont think he has much value as a pitchibility lefty with fringy stuff. those guys tend to dominate the lower minors… i don’t think he has much more value than as filler right now.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Well he has a lot of value right now after last season, and I agree that he might not get much better, he might be dangled or even prove us wrong. I do think though that after his AFL and team USA stint, Montgomery is untouchable. I don’t think there are doubts that Duffy will remain in pro ball. Thus I think he could be dangled for someone like Upton.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            “all three are still 3 of the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball”. i would disagree. close but not quite. hellickson/ drabek/ chapman/ teheran/ pineda/ gibson/ zbritton/ turner/ miller/ matzek/ moore.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Lamb and Montgomery are definetly in the top 10 Lamb is top 5 easily. And Hellickson/Teheran/Pineda/Lamb/ would be my top 4.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            no drabek? hellickson/ drabek/ teheran/ pineda/ gibson would be my top 5. i’d take britton, turner, moore over lamb, too.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Moore isn’t top 10. Drabek is definety 2 and he isn’t top 5. Trust me on Drabek.

            My Top 20 would be Hellickson, Teheran, Pineda, Lamb, Betances, Gibson, Lyles, Miller, Montgomery, Drabek, Chapman, Britton, Turner, Cosart, Moore, Perez, Duffy, Kelly, Parker, Archer.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            moore is SOO top 10. i dont understand the “trust me on drabek” part. no reason for him to be ranked lower than betances… same draft year, drabek’s DOMINATED at AA while betances pitched 7 so-so games there. drabek has great stuff, held his own in mlb… i dont get it.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            I got a chance to see Betances pitch this summer and I saw Drabek many many times. Just my opinion.

          • Dont overlook Simon Castro… and watch out for a little known prospect named Matthew Lollis- he’s moving up the Pads org fast and dominated this year- very similar to that Mat Latos did before he was called up early.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Yeah sure thing. I like Castro a lot but he seemed to struggle after the futures game. Definetly top 50. Lollis is interesting. He was darn good in fort Wayne and should excel next year at Great Lakes and hopefully make it to the Missions by the end of next year. Some other pitching prospects I like in the Padres organization. Corey Luebke is awesome. Anthony Bass is decent. Adys Portillo is getting there. I wouldn’t have traded away Corey Kluber and Wynn Pelzer, but Pelzer is eligible for the Rule 5 draft so they have a chance to get him back.

          • With Castro… it was getting towards the end of the season that he looked bad in the futures game. Not uncommon amongst young prospects. If he does well in the PCL band boxes he will surely move up the list.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            i like lollis alot… wouldn’t put him in that group of top pitching prospects in the game yet. this time next year, maybe…

          • I dont disagree…. he has to prove it more than 1 season.

          • jwredsox 5 years ago

            Moore still hasn’t pitched about high A. And the single A levels can be dominated pretty handily by lefties with good breaking balls so I want to see more from him at this point before he is close to the top 10. And Drabek still needs a lot of work. Teheran is another who needs work. He has a much slower pitching moion when throwing his breaking pitches. The top 5 isn’t as strong as it’s made out to be without surefire top of the rotation guys (Strasburg) so it isn’t hard to believe a guy like Lamb could sneak in.

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            they all need work, thats why they’re in the minors. lamb’s only pitched 33 innings above a ball, and he got touched up a bit. Hellickson/ Drabek/ Pineda are locks to be ranked higher than lamb b/c they’ve dominated in the upper minors and have great ‘stuff’. teheran has the same # of starts at aa as lamb and better numbers. britton and gibson have both pitched well in aaa, and i think they’ll rank higher than lamb. i do think moore’s a top 10 pitching prospect, although i think him and lamb are very very close. id take moore just on personel preference. SPAN said ‘lamb is top 5 easily’ and i dont think he is. as far as ‘i want to see more from him at this point before he is close to the top 10′, i ask who do you like better? what’s your top 10?

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            “He (teheran) has a much slower pitching motion when throwing his breaking pitches.” thats kind of an odd thing to say. i’ve never heard that, ever. wouldn’t his numbers suffer from something like that? as in “teheran’s winding up in slo-mo, here comes the hook”

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            no drabek? hellickson/ drabek/ teheran/ pineda/ gibson would be my top 5. i’d take britton, turner, moore over lamb, too.

          • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

            Lamb and Montgomery are definetly in the top 10 Lamb is top 5 easily. And Hellickson/Teheran/Pineda/Lamb/ would be my top 4.

  4. If the Yankees weren’t in the bidding, Lee’s camp would probably consider a deal like this from another team and say its close, give it a few more dollars or a 6th year and you have a deal. With the Yankees in the bidding, whats the rush? Lee is not even going to consider this offer, the same way Derek Jeter is not going to consider the 3/$45MM contract. Its not about what they are worth persay, but how they compare to the other players who obtained massive Yankees contracts. This is not meant to be any hate, just the truth. Jeter wants to be paid as long as A-Rod. Lee’s going to want to the same deal as CC and I don’t see him settling for less. They will argue his age, and he will argue that he’s been among the top 3 pitchers in baseball and has a dominant post-season resume that will stop years like 2010 from happening again. I’m not advocating a 7 year deal for Lee or a 5 year deal for Jeter, but I’m simply saying that’s what its likely going to be. I don’t think its smart either.

    • Nostraartist 5 years ago

      6 years/140 sounds more like it to me. I don’t think the Yanks will guarantee a 7th year for Lee, and will walk away if the bidding gets that high. But if I’m right and the Yanks won’t go that far, than the Rangers REALLY won’t go there. That money is more precious and can be used far more effectively by them at their payroll level.

      • I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yanks would be willing to go 6/150 if they had to. The Rangers would not be able to come close to that.

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      You don’t think Lee will consider $23 mil a year? He may hold out for a 6th year but he has to consider this:

      Sabathia started the 2009 season @ age 28 and will end the 2015 season @ 35.

      Lee will start the 2011 season @ age 32 and if he signed a 5 year deal would the 2015 season at age 36.

      Lee has to take that into account. Lee has an ego, and maybe that ego makes him want to be the highest paid pitcher annualy. He doesn’t SEEM like that kind of guy but let’s assume he is.

      $5 mil signing bonus, 5 years @ 23 mil and a 6th year $25 mil vesting option based on either IP in the 5th or Top 5 Cy Young voting.

      The $5 mil signing bonus will make the 1st year equal to $28 mil and avg’s out the entire contract (minus the vesting) to $24 mil per w/a chance of raising it to 6 years @ $24.2.

      I can’t imagine Texas wanting to enter those waters.

      • If the Giants can shell out $126M for Barry Zito, I think we can find a team out there willing to shell out $150M for Cliff Lee. I’m willing to bet that the Rangers, Red Sox and even the Nationals are willing to go that high to get Lee. I wouldn’t count Baltimore out either, as it was the same Orioles that offered Texeria $160M two years ago. There are teams that are willing to bid, so if the Yanks think that Lee can be had for that low ball offer, they’ll be s**t out of luck and out of the running. Lee and his agent have already made it quite clear that they want a CC Sabathia contract, and with these teams in the running… he’ll get it.

        • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

          I don’t recall Lee or his agent making a Boras like claim. I’ve heard writers and “insiders” say they might seek to be the highest paid pitcher but that’s it. And the offer I mentioned would make him the highest paid pitcher.

          No other team has close to giving out a contract that pays $25 mil except for the Yanks and Rangers (Arod), Phillies (Ryan Howrd in 2014 and beyond) and the Mets (Santana in 2013).

          You can’t look at Zito’s deal and Cliff Lee @ $150 mil w/o looking at the year and annualpay. Zito is going to avg $18 mil per and no one else in baseball felt he was worth anything close to that. The deals that most would consider “valid” or “fair market” would be the Santana ($22.9 annual) and Sabathia ($23 mil annual). Both were younger than Lee as they were both 28 years old compared to Lee who’s 32.

          I hate to assume logic will be used by any agent but if Lee can get an avg of or above the highest amount paid ($23 mil) when he was 4 years older than those before him then they should be happy. Factor in the fact that the Red Sox don’t have a need for another big salary pitcher and have glaring needs at 3B, C and bullpen and have a player they covet in AGonz avail next year and I can’t see them doing more than due dilligence w/ regards to Lee. I assume the Nats, Rangers and Orioles might be willing to play in that $20-$23 arena but who knows. I think if push came to shove the Yanks would be willing to go to 5/$125 if needed.

          Two factors thin out the crowd. Ability to pay top dollar and ability to compete year in and year out. I don’t think the Nats or O’s can offer both of those to Lee.

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      You don’t think Lee will consider $23 mil a year? He may hold out for a 6th year but he has to consider this:

      Sabathia started the 2009 season @ age 28 and will end the 2015 season @ 35.

      Lee will start the 2011 season @ age 32 and if he signed a 5 year deal would the 2015 season at age 36.

      Lee has to take that into account. Lee has an ego, and maybe that ego makes him want to be the highest paid pitcher annualy. He doesn’t SEEM like that kind of guy but let’s assume he is.

      $5 mil signing bonus, 5 years @ 23 mil and a 6th year $25 mil vesting option based on either IP in the 5th or Top 5 Cy Young voting.

      The $5 mil signing bonus will make the 1st year equal to $28 mil and avg’s out the entire contract (minus the vesting) to $24 mil per w/a chance of raising it to 6 years @ $24.2.

      I can’t imagine Texas wanting to enter those waters.

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      As for Jeter. He has nothing on paper that allows him to demand anymore than $15 mil per. Arod’s fall off @ age 35 is no where near as comparable to that of Jeter’s. Jeter has always been a top SS offensively with respect to bat avg, obp, runs, rbi and sb. He’s still top 7 across the board for a SS but compared to position players across the board he’s no where near a top 20 offensive player.

      Arod on the other hand, posted numbers far, far from his career avg of .300/.380, 40 hrs and 125 RBI but his #’s over the last 2 years are still impressive. He’s posted 2 years around .280/.360, 30 hrs and 110 RBI. I feel comfortable mentioning RBI simply because it’s more of an apples to apples comparison in that it’s basically the same lineup involved. The falloff in bat avg and obp are noticable and keeps him from being in “elite” company perhaps but his 30 hrs rank him top 20 overall (2nd among 3B) anb he’s still a productive run producer (.296/.368/.556 w/ MEN ON BASE and .450/.464/1.000 in 28 PA with the bases loaded last year). He’s still a very formidable clean up hitter, but one who needs a formidable #5 hitter for protection against being pitched around. The Yanks can provide enough support behind Arod to put him in the best position possible.

      Defensively, both guys are still limited range but surehanded fielders. I take UZR w/ a grain of salt but by their standards Arod is closer to being leage average (-1.8) as a 3B than Jeter (-5.4) is as a SS.

      With the offensive and defensive standards mentioned and the fact that Arod will probably be a more productive power hitter than Jeter will be a productive singles, slap hitter, it’s hard for me to undertand how and why Jeter’s ppl think they deserve a contract beyond 3 years. That lack of justifiable data makes me think there desire for a contract greater that 3 years has more to do with keeping up with the “Rodriguez” and ego than it has to do with anything else.

      I feel for Cashman because he’s now in the position where he has to contend with the “why can’t I get a contract that pays me until I’m 42″ issue and the contract that set the precedent wasn’t a contract that he negotiated or even wanted to be extended to Arod.

      I also have a major, major issue with Jeter’s agent negotiating and using the press to put the Yanks in a defensive mode. If he isn’t careful someone is going to answer back in a public fashion that will hurt his clients ego and make this relationship less tenable. This might turn into a publis arbitrationesque situation where the Yanks might feel the need to point out his deficiencies to justify a short term deal @ $15 mil or close, rather than the 4-6 year deal it seems he wants.

      • Yanks should offer Jeter 2 yrs $22mil with a third year option of $12 mil and a $3mil buyout. No other team is going to pay Jeter more then $12 mil a year.

        • snapcase8p 5 years ago

          Oh yeah. If I’m the Tigers i offer him 4/60 and slide him to 2nd. Jersey sales alone would cover half his contract.

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      As for Jeter. He has nothing on paper that allows him to demand anymore than $15 mil per. Arod’s fall off @ age 35 is no where near as comparable to that of Jeter’s. Jeter has always been a top SS offensively with respect to bat avg, obp, runs, rbi and sb. He’s still top 7 across the board for a SS but compared to position players across the board he’s no where near a top 20 offensive player.

      Arod on the other hand, posted numbers far, far from his career avg of .300/.380, 40 hrs and 125 RBI but his #’s over the last 2 years are still impressive. He’s posted 2 years around .280/.360, 30 hrs and 110 RBI. I feel comfortable mentioning RBI simply because it’s more of an apples to apples comparison in that it’s basically the same lineup involved. The falloff in bat avg and obp are noticable and keeps him from being in “elite” company perhaps but his 30 hrs rank him top 20 overall (2nd among 3B) anb he’s still a productive run producer (.296/.368/.556 w/ MEN ON BASE and .450/.464/1.000 in 28 PA with the bases loaded last year). He’s still a very formidable clean up hitter, but one who needs a formidable #5 hitter for protection against being pitched around. The Yanks can provide enough support behind Arod to put him in the best position possible.

      Defensively, both guys are still limited range but surehanded fielders. I take UZR w/ a grain of salt but by their standards Arod is closer to being leage average (-1.8) as a 3B than Jeter (-5.4) is as a SS.

      With the offensive and defensive standards mentioned and the fact that Arod will probably be a more productive power hitter than Jeter will be a productive singles, slap hitter, it’s hard for me to undertand how and why Jeter’s ppl think they deserve a contract beyond 3 years. That lack of justifiable data makes me think there desire for a contract greater that 3 years has more to do with keeping up with the “Rodriguez” and ego than it has to do with anything else.

      I feel for Cashman because he’s now in the position where he has to contend with the “why can’t I get a contract that pays me until I’m 42″ issue and the contract that set the precedent wasn’t a contract that he negotiated or even wanted to be extended to Arod.

      I also have a major, major issue with Jeter’s agent negotiating and using the press to put the Yanks in a defensive mode. If he isn’t careful someone is going to answer back in a public fashion that will hurt his clients ego and make this relationship less tenable. This might turn into a publis arbitrationesque situation where the Yanks might feel the need to point out his deficiencies to justify a short term deal @ $15 mil or close, rather than the 4-6 year deal it seems he wants.

  5. So if the reports about Upton are true, and the D’Backs would want something like Ellsbury, Bard, Rizzo and another for Upton, why is it even still being discussed? First of all, if he were healthy, I’d say Ellsbury and Kalish or Ellsbury and Bowden is plenty. I see what people are saying about Upton, and he is a great young talent. But players like Upton and Crawford and other multi-dimensional players are tough to sign at high values or give up a lot of prospects for because if one element of their game diminishes, they are suddenly nothing special. Upton gets hurt doesn’t steal 20 bases and loses a little range in the outfield, we wouldn’t be discussing him as any more then a potential J.D. Drew. Possibly not even. .290 average and 25-30 homer potential is nothing to give up all that talent for regardless of his age. A-Gon has a sturdier build and plays 1B where he’s not as likely to get hurt. I don’t see his power going anywhere. This should be the Sox focus once again.

    • bustersposey 5 years ago

      i don’t think ellsbury, kalish AND bowden would do it…

      • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

        How Bowden keeps getting mentioned as a prospect amazes me.

        • bustersposey 5 years ago

          yeah. i feel like i fight that battle daily here.

      • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

        How Bowden keeps getting mentioned as a prospect amazes me.

    • slr5607 5 years ago

      I 100% agree with your point here. The fit for the BOSox is Adrian Gonzalez. The D-Backs are just trying to get the most they possibly can because they need a lot of help. Someone will give them more than Upton is worth, at least Prospect Package wise.

      I think the Red Sox could better spend their prospects and players in order to get A-Gone. Ellsbury, Anderson and a quality pitching prospect would likely get you A-Gone. That is a better decision overall for the franchise and honestly, doesn’t hurt the team very much, especially if they go out and sign Crawford or Werth.

      C Salty, 1B A-Gone, 2B Pedroia, SS Lowrie, 3B Youk, LF Werth/Crawford, CF Cameron, RF Drew

      I am not a RedSox fan, but that would be an amazing line-up.

      • BoSoXaddict 5 years ago

        If Ellsbury, Anderson and a quality pitching prospect could land A.Gonz, Theo would have already made the trade. It’s gonna take more.

  6. markjsunz 5 years ago

    Say what it really is with the Dodgers, a team leader who is a veteran who will sign for cheap. A guy at the end of his career who will play for less.Welcome to the Dodger experience. Best or near the best in attendence every year, with a payroll that is sinking every year. But you can get one of the putrid Dodger dogs grilled at every level. You would have to eat one to expierence it. Made from hoofs, snouts, and rectum openings.

    • Infield Fly 5 years ago

      Dude, that’s taking “gross” to a whole new level, but still pretty funny.Congratulations (and sorry about your boyz in blue! As a Mets fan I KNOW how it is).

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      It’s called “head cheese”. Really…it is. Another word they “disguise” it as is called “Souse”. My mom use to make it for me for school lunch and the kids you use to call it “great tasting mystery meat”. One day the butcher slipped up and told me what it was. I was a vegetarian for about a week and then went back to demanding salami, hame or turkey and made a covenant with the butcher to never, ever tell me how or what something was made of until I was at least 14. Sigh…..ignorant bliss. Sort of like not knowing what a team’s payroll salary was. Wouldn’t the world be a beautiful place if we didn’t know what teams spent on players?

      • bustersposey 5 years ago

        ‘wouldn’t the world be a beautiful place if we didn’t know what teams spent on players.’ i know i wouldn’t have spent so much time heckling jason kendall at pirate games.

  7. Revive85 5 years ago

    I would prefer for the Royals-Upton rumors to stop, haha. I hate to think about the Royals shelling out any valuable pieces from the farm for Upton (or anyone for that matter). The system gives us hope. I don’t want to make any trades involving our youngsters until we are closer to competing for the division (2012?).

    Greinke can go for the right price (extremely high) and Butler can go for the right price (since there is a logjam at 1B/DH). Selling Soria would be silly since he loves KC and is contract friendly. Selling Gordon would be dumb since it would be an extreme “sell-low”. Everyone else is basically untouchable (I hope) or irrelevant.

    • bustersposey 5 years ago

      i think its great to talk about teams other than the ‘usual suspects’ when a player is on the block. i think this is just the kind of move a team like the royals should be looking to make… at the right price, of course.

    • bustersposey 5 years ago

      i think its great to talk about teams other than the ‘usual suspects’ when a player is on the block. i think this is just the kind of move a team like the royals should be looking to make… at the right price, of course.

    • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

      Isn’t KC on Upton’s no trade to list? Gordon is just not a good player at this point. He’s regressed every year and hasn’t been able to play a full season since 2008. I guess it makes sense to keep him until Moose is ready.

      • RoyalBlue 5 years ago

        What does keeping Gordon have anything to do with Moose? Gordon plays in the OF now and wont be moving back to 3B anytime soon…IMO he might be the biggest sleeper out there so I think the Royals should give him one year in the OF and see what he does… I wouldnt want to trade him for a bag of balls just to see him go off this season…

  8. YODA777 5 years ago

    Heck, half of the Red Sox farm system are already better hitters then Upton and Gonzalez lol. Heck, the Padres and D-Backs should have to give Boston a few prospects plus Gonz/Upton and maybe even cash because as we all know, Boston’s minor league prospects are probably way better then most major league players are lol. If I were Boston, I would want cash back as well. Its a known fact that Jed Lowerie is going to be better then Trammell, Whitaker, Tinkers and Evers.

  9. YODA777 5 years ago

    Heck, half of the Red Sox farm system are already better hitters then Upton and Gonzalez lol. Heck, the Padres and D-Backs should have to give Boston a few prospects plus Gonz/Upton and maybe even cash because as we all know, Boston’s minor league prospects are probably way better then most major league players are lol. If I were Boston, I would want cash back as well. Its a known fact that Jed Lowerie is going to be better then Trammell, Whitaker, Tinkers and Evers.

  10. Sabean sign u-ribe and sign triple alley Crawford.

  11. BoSoxSam 5 years ago

    I think Cafardo’s source is right, Gonzalez is a better choice than Upton. The reason I still might want my team to trade for Upton over A-Gon, however, would be because of the money. Upton has that beautiful contract, while A-Gon would at best require a huge extension, and might even be gone after a year. Now, if you can get the negotiation window, and are able to agree on an extension, I say sure, trade for Gonzalez. Otherwise, Upton is probably the more attractive player+contract right now.

  12. BoSoxSam 5 years ago

    I think Cafardo’s source is right, Gonzalez is a better choice than Upton. The reason I still might want my team to trade for Upton over A-Gon, however, would be because of the money. Upton has that beautiful contract, while A-Gon would at best require a huge extension, and might even be gone after a year. Now, if you can get the negotiation window, and are able to agree on an extension, I say sure, trade for Gonzalez. Otherwise, Upton is probably the more attractive player+contract right now.

  13. Adrian likely wont move until spring training or the trade deadline

    • Kei_Igawa 5 years ago

      That’s really insightful. Thanks.

    • Kei_Igawa 5 years ago

      Thanks Scott. That’s so insightful. What a well-deduced, thought-out point. You should post more often.

  14. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    The Royals are an interesting team. They can either be the next Tampa Bay Rays w/ a window of opportunity lasting from 2012-2016 or they can be the Orioles who hit on Jones, Markakis, Matusz and Weiters but are still waiting/hoping on Tillman, Bergesen, Arieta, Bell, Reimold and Hernandez to come around. Britton should help soon too but it’s so tough when 75% of your success is dependent upon prospects turning into contributing mlb players.

  15. slr5607 5 years ago

    Bartlett to the Giants. Get it done. They need to get him and start figuring out the other positions. There are plenty of guys that the Giants have that would match up well with what the Rays are asking…

  16. boston3party123 5 years ago

    trade gonzo for theo epstien straight up

  17. boston3party123 5 years ago

    trade gonzo for theo epstien straight up

  18. angel31 5 years ago

    Hopefully The Angels can hurry up and sign Crawford by the end of the week so they can close the door on the OF problem and speedy middle of the line-up guy they need and then focus on 3B option whatever that might be and pitching problems like adding another starting pitcher who can make them the best Rotation in the leauge and the bullpen help!

    • jt24 5 years ago

      i love how there is a major rumor in this article with crawford but everyone is concerned about how a scout wants gonzo instead of j. upton. Hopefully it will get done and fast.

  19. RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

    I dont get how people are treating Upton like a superstar when gets paid an average of 10 million to hit .273,19,86! He’s basically Ellsbury with 10 more homers, a lower batting average and a lot less speed. And ellsbury didnt even make a million last year! But all the Boston haters wil say hes gonna be a star and Ellsbury wont without one stat to back it up! Sorta like how everyone here said Buchholz was never gonna be a decent pitcher. theres definitely a reverse bias against all`things Boston and New York here from other teams know-it-all petty fans who think an ok player like upton is guaranteed to be the next Pujols!

    • bustersposey 5 years ago

      ellsbury didn’t play a full season in the majors till he was 24. upton’s not even 24 yet and has played 400+ games. their ceiling is the main difference.

      • RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

        I agree with you when you mention the potential of Upton is the reason for the hype but would anyone be really surprised if Ellsbury’s potential was .320,20,80 from leadoff with an average of 50-80 sb’s and a .380-.400 obp? Basically Ellsbury could turn into a faster, better version of Johnny Damon in his prime. Dont believe me then check out how Damons career progressed through the years. Speedy leadoff men who play good defense and hit .300 and get on base a lot are rare and are legitimate commodities!

  20. I don’t care if A. Gonzalez is 5 years older than Upton — you take Gonzalez over Upton any day of the week.

  21. bustersposey 5 years ago

    there should be a rule on this site about offering michael bowden or lars anderson in trade proposals. just write ‘filler’.

    • redlake 5 years ago

      Let’s talk Dodgers….no other team really matters

  22. bustersposey 5 years ago

    there should be a rule on this site about offering michael bowden or lars anderson in trade proposals. just write ‘filler’.

  23. redlake 5 years ago

    Bring Padilla back…he’s got great stuff…if he keeps his head on straight he’s a very solid number 5. He is capable of stepping up in clutch situations. Ely and others need a lot of work and they have a lot to prove. Besides Padilla is fun to watch….that’s worth something in itself. PLEASE don’t go out and pay money for washed up sore arms and stick them in the rotation. X. Paul MIGHT be alright …he is talented….but we need a consistent power force in the lineup…Lopes will help this team…the key to the season is Furcal…Kershaw will emerge as a dominant force and match up with anyone.

    • redlake 5 years ago

      p.s. Ned PLEASE don’t give away anymore prospects. That is not a good thing to do.

  24. sherrilltradedooverexperience 5 years ago

    starting second baseman for the los angeles dodgers…batting second…derek jeter

  25. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    … why would you want Jennifer Aniston. What is this, 1999?

  26. Revive85 5 years ago

    Yeah but the main difference is that ATL is a contender in that division. Trading a few prospects for a star can push them to the playoffs.

    The Royals have built all hope into their farm system. They will not compete next year. So, even though we are stacked on the farm, it would not make sense to unload a handful of guys for a star player. Wait till 2012-2013 to make a move like that.

  27. snapcase8p 5 years ago

    Or they could just swap Upton and Greinke. Too bad KC is on Upton’s DNT list though. I don’t think he likes the midwest as Tigers and Cleveland are also on the list. And personally I think the Tigers would be a great fit as they have key players in place, not too competitive a division, ownership is happy to dish out big extensions and everyone who goes there loves to play for them. But I’m biast

  28. Considering the Sox don’t have any superstars, I would do it. I say we go ahead and blow up Fenway too though, so my opinion might be a little biased. 😛

  29. If you think that would be the worst 3 player tandem in LF in baseball, I don’t think you pay much attention to other teams.

  30. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I don’t think Damon is “that guy”. I don’t think he’s a vocal kind of guy that would get in someone’s face. Offensively, he’s no longer at the top of his game and defensively he probably just shouldn’t be there.

    I think VMart would be a great candidate although an expensive one. He’s still a force and could share C duties with Martin and play some 1B and would allow them to move Loney and a prospect for some other needs.

  31. bustersposey 5 years ago

    ellsbury/kalish/bowden neither COULD nor SHOULD do it. i’m sure bowden’s a nice dude and all, but does he have any value whatsoever in a trade? he seems like a AAAA pitcher.

  32. bustersposey 5 years ago

    ellsbury/kalish/bowden neither COULD nor SHOULD do it. i’m sure bowden’s a nice dude and all, but does he have any value whatsoever in a trade? he seems like a AAAA pitcher.

  33. Then why are they so ready to trade Upton, if he’s such a great talent with an agreeable contract? There’s obviously something going on here beyond “He strikes out too much”. I agree Steven, not worth the haul people are discussing.

  34. Then why are they so ready to trade Upton, if he’s such a great talent with an agreeable contract? There’s obviously something going on here beyond “He strikes out too much”. I agree Steven, not worth the haul people are discussing.

  35. MLB_in_the_Know 5 years ago

    I’d still tap it.

  36. Jennifer Aniston is still hot. Just as fine as she was in 1999. I’d love to still make mud-puppies with her. Also, I’ll keep making this comment until it stays.

  37. No, I hate the Yankees even more. Buccholz is not even close to a superstar. Bard? No. Lester, Pedroia, and Youk? Yes.

  38. YODA777 5 years ago

    I am just making light of the fact that the majority of you Sox fans
    severely overrate your prospects when you discuss trades for other teams MVP
    type All-stars lol. The Red Sox minor league system is not any better then
    the Padres system is at this given moment.

  39. bustersposey 5 years ago

    its not just about next year. if kc landed upton, he’d be there when they were in position to contend. kc’s system will never be better than it is now, with promotions, injuries, bad performance, etc. they seem to have an abundance of lhp and a great ml trade piece (butler) at a position where there could be a logjam. i think moving butler, one of montgomery/ lamb, and another b+ prospect would land upton and not cripple kc in the future. also, as stated above, if they land upton, maybe greinke decides he wants to stay.

  40. bustersposey 5 years ago

    he’s not a mid rotation starter on anything close to a good team. he has had good numbers at aaa but has gotten smoked in the majors everytime he’s been called up. hence… AAAA pitcher. more to the point, it’s getting old seeing rs fans include him in trades for upton or agon. to think theres a gm out there thinking ‘i gotta get bowden in a package from the sox’ is absurd.

  41. YODA777 5 years ago

    Some do more then others, wouldnt you agree?

  42. Here are the fan bases that seem to rate their prospects much higher than others:
    Red Sox, Braves, Twins. All have good farm systems, but they are generally unwilling to trade their prospects for anyone. Calling bowden a prospect is a big reason why people see the Sox as overating their prospects. The sox may be right to hold on to their prospects but with the yanks 5 games better than the sox… perhaps a move should be made.

  43. bustersposey 5 years ago

    not as much as rs fans. i read things on these posts like ‘kalish is a 30/30 guy’ or ‘reddick is a stud’ or trade packages for all-stars where bowden or lars anderson is a key piece. i’m sure that happens in every fan base, but its like an epidemic amongst rs fans.

  44. I agree. I think the Diamondbacks are gonna want bullpen help, a young starting pitcher, and an outfielder:
    Bard, Kelly, Kalish, and Rizzo. I know the Sox wouldnt do this… but, I think that is what it would take for the Dbacks to pull the trigger.

  45. They are not eager to trade Upton. They are willing to listen. If they can land bullpen help and 2 high upside top prospects then why not consider it.

  46. CaseyBlakeDeWitt 5 years ago

    Just curious. Who are these worse players?

  47. bustersposey 5 years ago

    no reason at all for the rs not to do this, imo.

  48. No… some fans are just more vocal and there are larger numbers than others.

  49. RoyalBlue 5 years ago

    Get out of here with that crap…No thank you! I would rather them take a chance in getting two super stars for Greinke…

  50. bustersposey 5 years ago

    i agree on all counts. i can’t imagine a universe where that’s the return for justin upton.

  51. RoyalBlue 5 years ago

    Why because I dont want to give up our Ace for Upton?

  52. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    When does a team decide to try and build around a guy under contract for the next 5 years? This is what small market teams clamor for….a all-star elite talent w/ a team friendly deal. ARGHHH!!!!

  53. RoyalBlue 5 years ago

    I would rather have an Ace on the staff than have another bat any day of the week…You always find a bat!

  54. RoyalBlue 5 years ago

    They are trying to sign Greinke to an extension from what I have heard…and yes Upton is a stud with all of the tools…but for me I would rather keep Greinke or if we cant sign him, move him for more than one five tool player…Would you rather get one five tool player or maybe get and number 2 or 3 SP and two 4 tool guys?

    I would like to see the Royals offer Butler and 2 prospects for Upton…

  55. bustersposey 5 years ago

    except, like, wayyy less valuable.

  56. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Joba

    3.77 ERA, 1.35 whip with 362 ko in 353 IP in the majors.
    -4.18 ERA, 1.48 whip with 206 ko in 212 IP as a starter.
    -3.08 ERA, 1.15 whip with 156 ko in 131 IP as a releiver.

    2.45 ERA, 1.00 whip with 135 ko in 88 IP in the minors.

    Mike Bowden, age 24

    6.69 ERA, 1.67 whip, 28 ko in 36 IP in the majors
    3.23 ERA, 1.15 whip with 554 ko in 637 IP in the minors

    Bowden’s number suck at the major lge level but I’ll give him a pass due to small sample size. His minor lge numbers look decent but I’ve never heard anyone project him as more than a mid/back of rotation starter or middle reliever.

    Question. Why is that whenver someone questions a Red Sox prospect or player you guys look for someone to down grade on the commentor’s team? I didn’t say anything disparaging about the guy except why he get’s talked about like he’s a top prospect 50 prospect or something?

  57. bustersposey 5 years ago

    more valuable than bowden. as a sox fan, would you trade bowden for joba? i think you would. if youre the yankees, do you trade joba for bowden? me thinks not.

  58. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Big difference between no value and less value. No one said Bowden had NO value. But Bowden was never a high ranked prospect to begin with….

    Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
    Pre-2007: Rated #83 Prospect
    Pre-2008: Rated #94 Prospect
    Pre-2009: Rated #83 Prospect

    …and in AAA (3.66, 6 K/9 and 2.08 k:BB rate in 2010) and his small sample size in the majors (6.69 in 36 IP) he hasn’t distinguished himself as being a top prospect anymore. He can still be a usefull pitcher but no one is going to value him as more than a back end rotation/bullpen guy.

    Joba was a very highly ranked prospect ….

    Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
    Pre-2007: Rated #75 Prospect
    Pre-2008: Rated #3 Prospect

    ….and aside from some problems as a starter in the 2nd half (4.25 vs 5.40) of 2009 and as a reliver in the 1st half (5.79 ERA vs 2.88) of 2010, he has had a solid start in his career.

  59. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I never said he wasn’t elite I just pointed out the dangers of trading for him. For the Dbacks, I don’t see the rush to unload him and question whether or not they know something that giving them cause to move him. Usually when a GM comes to a new organization trading the teams top star is usually not the 1st business they tend to.

  60. BoSoXaddict 5 years ago

    You’re concluding that Bowden is an AAAA pitcher based on 36 ML innings (and a whopping TWO starts) over 3 years? Please. Bowden is NOT an AAAA pitcher. Now, I’m not saying that the Dbacks or Padres are going to be asking for him in any trades but he still has upside and still projects as a middle to back-of-the-rotation starter.

  61. BoSoXaddict 5 years ago

    You’re concluding that Bowden is an AAAA pitcher based on 36 ML innings (and a whopping TWO starts) over 3 years? Please. Bowden is NOT an AAAA pitcher. Now, I’m not saying that the Dbacks or Padres are going to be asking for him in any trades but he still has upside and still projects as a middle to back-of-the-rotation starter.

  62. BoSoXaddict 5 years ago

    Kelly/Bard/Kalish/Rizzo likely wouldn’t land Upton. But, if you replace Kalish with Ellsbury than you have a very realistic offer.

  63. bustersposey 5 years ago

    36ml innings. 50h 28so 6.69era 1.68whip. good aaa numbers. looks a lot more like a aaaa pitcher than a middle to back of the rotation starter. im sure he could start in the back of some rotation, the pirates had charlie morton in their rotation, but on a good team bowden is not a starter. i’d say his upside is that of a middle reliever or spot starter. hes just not that good. and for someone to post that ellsbury and bowden should be enough to get upton is lunacy. it feeds in to the thought that sox fans over value their teams prospects immensely.

  64. bustersposey 5 years ago

    36ml innings. 50h 28so 6.69era 1.68whip. good aaa numbers. looks a lot more like a aaaa pitcher than a middle to back of the rotation starter. im sure he could start in the back of some rotation, the pirates had charlie morton in their rotation, but on a good team bowden is not a starter. i’d say his upside is that of a middle reliever or spot starter. hes just not that good. and for someone to post that ellsbury and bowden should be enough to get upton is lunacy. it feeds in to the thought that sox fans over value their teams prospects immensely.

  65. RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

    Perfectly said and Thank You!

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