Olney’s Latest: Garza, Angels, Delgado, Yankees

In today's blog post at ESPN (Insider req'd), Buster Olney solicited the opinions of various talent evaluators about yesterday's Matt Garza trade. The general consensus is that the Cubs made the move with the idea of contending in 2011 while the Rays made the move geared towards reloading for the future, somewhat acknowledging that the upcoming season "will be very difficult."

Here are the rest of Olney's rumors…

  • Two sources tell Buster that the Angels' final offer to Adrian Beltre was $77MM guaranteed, or $3MM less than the guarantee he got from Texas.
  • Carlos Delgado wants to come back, but it'll be very tough to do so when the free agent market features plenty of healthier DH-types.
  • The Yankees are seeking a capable back-of-the-rotation innings-eater, but there are very few pitchers that fit that description available. 


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108 Comments on "Olney’s Latest: Garza, Angels, Delgado, Yankees"


dizzle4
4 years 7 months ago

It would be so amazing if the Yankees ended up having to trade for Joe Blanton.

qbass187
4 years 7 months ago

That would be hilarious!

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

It’s that or they settle for Milwood, Suppan or Garcia. Garcia seems to be the best choice there but if that’s the case, I’m taking my chances with Nova. Glad I’m not a Yankee fan right now. The market for pitching is scarce.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

If I’m not mistaken Nova is in the rotation regardless, if Pettitte retires they will be looking for a pitcher so they don’t have to use Mitre in the rotation. I’d take any of those guys over Mitre.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Ah, true. I forgot Pettite still hasn’t made up his mind.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

more amazing if the phils can get jesus montero for him.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

Most amazing if CC opts out of his contract to join his friend Cliff Lee in Philadelphia.

LifeLongYankeeFan
4 years 7 months ago

CC actually likes being and playing for the Yankees. Sorry to everyone who hates the Yankees and think otherwise. Why bother explaining that to Phillie fans they’re worse then we are. You guys better win the world series this year no excuses if you don’t. Its actually refreshing for once not being the fan of the team who must win the world series or its a bust. Why would CC play for a team that’s older anyway. God I can’t believe I’m saying that being a Yankee fan.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

no, CC likes getting paid 23 million dollars to play for a winning team. CC practically had no other choice but to take the yanks money,
and a 4 year deal for 96 mil would equal the rest of his contract.

so say he resigns with the phils for 3 year 66 mil with a 1 year option for 25 mil.

the rotation could be
doc
lee
CC
cole
oswalt

the yankee rotation for the next 3 years ?

CC
AJ
Phil
?
?

who has a better shot of winning?

and besides, in the next 3 years, chase/howard/victorino/brown/polanco/ruiz would still be spring chickens on the yankee roster.

4 years 7 months ago

quick response to your “spring chickens”

Ruiz 31
Howard 31
Utley 32
Polanco 35
Victorino 30
Brown 23
Halladay 33
Lee 32
Hamels 27
Oswalt 33

not to mention your other starts Rollins 32 and Ibanez 38 respectively…of those, two of them are still in their “prime” in Brown and Hamels

Montero 21
Teixeira 30
Cano 28
Jeter 36
Rodriguez 35
Swisher 30
Granderson 29
Gardner 27
CC 30
Hughes 24
Burnett 34
Nova 24

so…of the players you mentioned…you were older than the Yankees at 6 of the 9 positions on the field with only one of your starting pitchers being younger than the Yankees four

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

Dear lord

look around the diamond.

1B – tex / howard – about the same age
2B – chase is older
SS – J-Roll is younger
3B – A-Rod/Polanco – Same age
C – Ruiz is younger
LF – Gardner is younger
CF – Same age
RF – Brown is younger

so far in positions, yanks are older at SS/C/RF….same age at 1B, 3B,
CF, and younger at 2B and LF…i think the yanks are slightly older in
the field.

as far as pitchers..AJ would be the oldest pitcher on either
staff…Doc and Oswalt are 32/33. If CC joined them their staff for
the next 3 years would look like…

CC – 31-34
Doc – 33-36
Cole – 28-31
Lee – 33-36
Oswalt -33-36

as opposed to

AJ – who’s contract is up after next year anyway
Phil – who is the ONLY one i would even half way depend on to be decent
Nova?
?
?

are u seriously telling me that CC would have a better chance with the
Yankees than the Phils at that point of winning a chip ?!!?

4 years 7 months ago

I didn’t just come up with some numbers…the ages I listed are their ages.

That being said, the Yankees are younger or the same age at C, 1B, 2B, 3B, CF and LF with the Phillies being younger at SS and RF. Posada will be our starting DH at this point with Montero (21), Cervelli (24) or Martin (27) being our starting C over Carlos Ruiz at 31.

Saying CC will leave isn’t really realistic at this point and then adding that he would go to the NL (where he would have to bat and “run” the bases) and join the Phillies is also unrealistic at this point.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

lets wait and see what happens with posada before we annoint him as a
the DH just yet.

and CC would only need a 3-4 year deal….if CC goes to the
phils…who do u think would have a better chance of winning a ring ?

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

well CC already has a ring so at this point, i expect him to follow the money.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

its CC + Philly Cheese Steaks could be a mean combo.

LifeLongYankeeFan
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah because the Yankees are just gonna sit on their hands and not trade for a top of the line starter if Pettitte retires or stop signing top free agents because they missed out on 1 who is 32 and isn’t getting any older. Newsflash these aren’t the Marlins they’re the Yankees. They missed the playoffs once and then spent a half a billion dollars on top free agents. The Yankees give their players a chance to win every year and if you disagree with that you haven’t been watching baseball for the past 10 years. Yeah CC is gonna go to the Phillies after all that recruiting he did to try and get Cliff Lee to come to the Yankees. Yeah he will say he’s happy for him to reporters but I’m sure he has different feelings deep down. Their are still a lot of top of the line players that would still love to play for the Yankees. If the Yankees had traded for Cliff Lee and he enjoyed it there which he probably would have he would probably be a Yankee right now because he told the Rangers that if they guaranteed him 7 years he would sign with them and how many guaranteed years did the Yankees offer Lee I forgot.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

small market teams r playing keep-away with the Yankees in terms of
trades. this is why seattle, who had a deal already in place with the
yankees, traded Lee to Texas for an inferior package…this is why the
blue jays would never consider trading doc in their division…ditto
with the rays and garza…next shields…next price…they will trade
them out of the AL EAST…..this is why KC, who again had a better
deal on the table with the Yankees, traded Greinke to the Brewers, now
watch them trade Soria to the Braves for some of their stud pitching
prospects. sorry yankees, but i dont think its a coincidence. the
free-agent market is drying up, now these teams are playing keep-away
with their prospects, something tells me the Steinbrenners have bad
relations with alot of their fellow owners and its coming to bite them
in the arse now.ur gonna have to develop and keep young players like
the rest of the planet

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

small market teams r playing keep-away with the Yankees in terms of
trades. this is why seattle, who had a deal already in place with the
yankees, traded Lee to Texas for an inferior package…this is why the
blue jays would never consider trading doc in their division…ditto
with the rays and garza…next shields…next price…they will trade
them out of the AL EAST…..this is why KC, who again had a better
deal on the table with the Yankees, traded Greinke to the Brewers, now
watch them trade Soria to the Braves for some of their stud pitching
prospects. sorry yankees, but i dont think its a coincidence. the
free-agent market is drying up, now these teams are playing keep-away
with their prospects, something tells me the Steinbrenners have bad
relations with alot of their fellow owners and its coming to bite them
in the arse now.ur gonna have to develop and keep young players like
the rest of the planet

LifeLongYankeeFan
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah because the Yankees are just gonna sit on their hands and not trade for a top of the line starter if Pettitte retires or stop signing top free agents because they missed out on 1 who is 32 and isn’t getting any older. Newsflash these aren’t the Marlins they’re the Yankees. They missed the playoffs once and then spent a half a billion dollars on top free agents. The Yankees give their players a chance to win every year and if you disagree with that you haven’t been watching baseball for the past 10 years. Yeah CC is gonna go to the Phillies after all that recruiting he did to try and get Cliff Lee to come to the Yankees. Yeah he will say he’s happy for him to reporters but I’m sure he has different feelings deep down. Their are still a lot of top of the line players that would still love to play for the Yankees. If the Yankees had traded for Cliff Lee and he enjoyed it there which he probably would have he would probably be a Yankee right now because he told the Rangers that if they guaranteed him 7 years he would sign with them and how many guaranteed years did the Yankees offer Lee I forgot.

4 years 7 months ago

Dear Lord, is the news in Philly that slow?

Ruiz = 31

Martin = 27 (one of the best defensive catchers with one of the better arms in the league with a 39% throw out rate) Montero is 21, Romine is 21, Sanzhez is 17. These are the Yankee catchers and depth chart. Read about them.

BTW, the Yankees farm system has been ranked as high as 5 for 2011 and have a very nice crop of young arms to work with.

And yes, I remembered Philly fans running their mouth in 2009 and then last year again. The City of brotherly love must provide great dental insutrance for their citizens as they continuosly get their teeth kicked in.

Just to note, In Spring of 2008, CC aknowleged to some local fans in their former training camp of Winter Haven, Fl that he would eventually like to play in NY.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

the dodgers released russell martin after 3 straight declining years…and chose rod barajas ( who was released by the mets ) over him…russ had a torn labrum in his hip this year..the sad part is that it started out initially diagnosed as a groin pull back in march…never treated correctly…then in july another groin strain..then in august…the torn labrum diagnosis…

i like russell martin’s game, but after 3 straight declining years, i would not bank on him even making the team, much less being something to brag about.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

It’s a strange perception to me that the Yankees are so old, I think it is because key players like A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and Mo are all fairly old. But the truth is based on average age they are actually the 11th oldest, behind teams like LAA, Boston, and Philly. Philly is actually the oldest for what it’s worth.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

probably b/c the players most talked about are old.

over 35
jeter
posada
mariano
pet
a-rod
AJ is creeping right up on em at 34.

that to me more than anything is why i was against them trading tabata and austin away. those are the kind of kids that keep ur team young and rotating out older players in ur lineup.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, I think that’s probably where it comes from.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Wishful thinking!

4 years 7 months ago

redsox dynasty? is that an oxymoron?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Only to jealous New Yorkers who forget that it happened 100 years ago and, in all likelihood, is beginning again!

4 years 7 months ago

you won’t get jesus montero for a scrub. jesus is a valuable trading chip for a an ace type pitcher or closer. At least the Yanks have their trading chips available unlike the redsox who are spent, as are the Phils. If the redsox rotation implodes as it has last couple of seasons with no recovery in sight they have nothing, zippo, zilch in their farm system to work with. The phils are pretty much spent as well and now must rely on brown to show and provew in the outfield.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Bostons starters are better than The yanks and if u think Montero can play c, ss, and 3B at the same time for that aging, get the dl ready,trio, more love to you but Boston is the team to beat! Pitching, defense, bullpen, hitting all go to Boston! Social security checks edge goes to the Bronx!

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

so let met get this straight..montero projects to be a DH/1B..and u guys have about 5 DH/1B’s on ur team…lmao…face it, montero is a more valuable trade chip than a part of the yankee future..yall never should’ve traded tabata/austin. smh

now in terms of trading montero for Heavy B. I was just kidding. I just thought it was hilarious that there is a rumor of Joe Blanton being traded to the yankees.

at this point i think trading K-Rod for Joba may be the best move for your pen this year. u get a lock down closer as ur 8th inning set up man, some insurance in case Mo gets hurt, and probably a 1st round pick as u offer arb and he probably declines to look for another multi-year deal. its the equivalent of trading Joba for a 2012 1st rnd draft pick and getting a lock down 8th inning guy for 2011

soxin10
4 years 7 months ago

As a red sox fan I am happy Beltre signed with Texas (draft pick) however, I am kind of disappointed he chose 3 million dollars over five years versus being in California where he lives/ family etc. He said his next move would be about family.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

A lot had to do with being comfortable where he is. The Rangers have a lot of latin players which could have played into his decision. There was more than just money involved here. He will thrive in Texas anyways, great ballpark for his style of hitting. Can’t wait to see the Rangers square off against the Sox, though! Bought some tickets to see them play at Fenway last night =].

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

The Angels have a latin owner, market heavily to a latin demographic and have a ton of latin players (Morales, Aybar, Izturis, Rivera, Santana, Abreu, just to name a few). It all comes down to money, and the 6th year vesting option makes the difference $19M+ not $3M. Plus the Angels’ hatred of Boras is mutual, meaning that Boras took every opportunity to place his client elsewhere.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

If you say so. I don’t believe EVERY player is about the money. And I will stick to believing he went for security reasons.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Why are you blaming Boras? He’s simply acting in the best interests of his clients.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He must be an Angels fan.

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

It’s true I am an Angels fan; however you’re not reading my comment closely. I am not blaming Boras, simply stating that there is a mutual disregard between Boras and Angels ownership. This evolved from the Texeira trade, when they were led to believe he would sign with the Halos after the season, and then Boras used the Angel contract offer as a benchmark to shop to the Yanks and O’s. It’s been down hill since then. Expect Jered Weaver to pitch elsewhere after team control expires.

I agree it is not always about the money (see Cliff Lee) but it would be nice if a player would just speak the truth, “because my agent tells me so, or “it was about the money” or “I’m afraid to play in a pitchers park when I can hit in a band box instead”

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Boras has had numerous issues with big market teams over the years but it has been worked out. The Angels and Boras will work it out sooner or later because to have the amount of money the Angels have they HAVE to spend and some of their biggest targets are Boras clients (Beltre, Prince next year?). Boras represents some of the best soon to be free agents and the Angels need to do something in the next couple years in order to stay atop the AL West. As for Texiera, Morales is turning into a great player. If he’s healthy he will be just fine. Coming from an Angels fan, you should be happy you didn’t dump all that money into Texieras bank account. Morales turned out just fine. Every situation won’t work out that way but that time it did and it saved the Angels money for someone else.

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

I didn’t say I was unhappy with the way it worked out and Morales is a tremendous talent. I was merely expressing that Boras and Angels have a contentious relationship and that plays a role in how the free agent negotiations work out.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, true but it will work itself out over time. It must suck right now that the rift is going on but if Boras keeps overplaying his hand on some of his free agents it may work out in the Angels favor. He will have to go to teams with money and the Angels are always going to be a team with money. That could be a way it gets resolved.

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
4 years 7 months ago

I can also see him wanting to play for Ron Washington. He’s quite animated in the dugout and looks like he keeps the players loose. To me, he seems like the kind of manager a lot of players would like to play for.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Sure does. Only thing is, people better stay away from his head :P. Touch it and beware.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

There’s also the Rangers are a team that just made the World Series and the Angels finished under .500.

slider32
4 years 7 months ago

Let’s not forget the Rangers lost Lee and the rest of their starters have little positive track record. Their starting pitching is a big ?

BK
4 years 7 months ago

LOL. Youd be foolish to discount the Angels because of one .500 season.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah but Lee was 4-6 for the Rangers with a ≈4.00 ERA, so he wont really be as big of a loss as one would think.

I really have to wonder how much of this had to do with the ballpark that they play in, if anyone knows how much playing in a hitters park helps Beltre it’s Beltre himself (and probably Boras too).

LifeLongYankeeFan
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah but he had back problems during all of August. I think his era in September was under 2. If hes healthy he’s damn good. Then again I’m a Yankee fan so I wish him the worst. Sorry nothing personal I’m sure there are a lot of Ranger fans who feel the same way too.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

I was in no way saying that Cliff Lee isn’t a great pitcher, in fact he’s currently one of the greatest. I was simply stating that (no matter the reason) he didn’t put up great numbers with Texas so him leaving isn’t going to hurt them as much as people think it will. If he had gone to Texas and put up usual Cliff Lee numbers then sure, he would be a huge loss, but regardless of what his name is those numbers aren’t a big loss.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

I think almost every team has alot of latin players. although met fans might want to reverse that trend now.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Maybe he had a hankering for good barbecue.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

I was thinking the same thing when I read the article, about the next move being about family. Texas must have made a better pitch than the Angels, claiming a better competitive chance than the Angles, or a better environment for his family. I think it’d be fascinating to hear what went on behind the scenes with Beltre and the Angels and Rangers mgmt.

rpoabr
4 years 7 months ago

Consider state taxes too. CA has something like an 8% state tax, Texas has ZERO. I moved from SoCal to Texas and am enjoying the difference!

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Must be nice. Taxes BLOW!

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

so do hot blondes, there are more in So-Cal. I’d rather be there.

4 years 7 months ago

Blood may be thicker than water, but for Beltre it looks like money is thickest of all.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Players say a lot of things but 99pct. of them follow the dollar even when they don’t need to! It was also more than 3 million as he could easily get that 6th year vesting option! Not many players like Mike Lowell or Cliff Lee who take less to play where they’ll be happiest! Can’t wait to see which way Pujols goes! Personally, I see him taking no less than 8 years and signing the biggest contract in MLB history!

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah but Pujols could take a team friendly contract and still get the largest contract in MLB history.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

LOL! Please explain how “team friendly” and “largest contract in mlb history” can happen?

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Apparently, the fact that I was joking was lost in translation. But anyway, I was implying that he could legitimately get a 10 year contract and 30 mil or more per year, so say he could get 10/300 from another team and agreed to sign with the Cards for 10/280 it would technically be team friendly in that he could have got more elsewhere and would still be the largest contract in MLB history.

4 years 7 months ago

You have the wrong link under “come back” for Delgado.

They won’t do it, but I hope the Jays sign him. They don’t really have a DH right now (not that he would automatically be the every day option). If things don’t work out he can always retire like Griffey.

metfan31
4 years 7 months ago

I just know that if Delgado gets picked up by some team for maybe a little under 1mil,
he could be 4x better than a guy like Matt stairs.

Infield Fly
4 years 7 months ago

Delgado’s got a sweet swing and all, but with 3 hip operations (and frequent reports that he has little mobility) the question is whether he can actually make it to 1B in under an hour after hitting the ball.
Very sad.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

is there a time limit on HR trots ?

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Do they allow players to use their Hoveround’s during the games?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Very sad indeed! It killed Boston fans watching Mike Lowell run the bases with a bad hip! Still, he always gave 110 pct!

gcheezpuff
4 years 7 months ago

Bring back the Zambrano to the Yankees rumor.. as a Cubs fan I liked the sound of that one a lot 😉

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Unless the Yankees are going to take on his whole salary it doesn’t make sense for the Cubs. His second half was great they’re better off keeping him unless they’re losing his salary.

sdsny
4 years 7 months ago

Considering what the Cubs just gave up for Garza, they’d want the farm for Zambrano. Unless of course it would be a dump of a salary and an attitude. If I’m the Yankees, I get on the phone with Jim Hendry. Offer a couple of prospects (not Montero) and offer to take his whole salary. Despite his attitude, he’s capable of being one of the best pitchers in the league. His 2nd half last year speaks for itself.

HerbertAnchovy
4 years 7 months ago

I couldn’t really picture Zambrano pitching for The Yankees. I think he would literally explode.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Zambrano to the Yanks make sense and thank you for not saying the Cubs should get Montero in return!

pmollan
4 years 7 months ago

The Cubs plan on “contending” this year? That’s a joke, right?

Sixto_Lezcano
4 years 7 months ago

They’re contending with the Pirates for fourth place in the NL Central.

4 years 7 months ago

can someone tell me what’s wrong with Millwood or Brad Penny for that role with the Yankees?

Why are they continually not linked to either player? I mean Francis is OK and everything, but those other guys are much more proven

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

All Penny has proven since he got hurt with LA is that he’ll pitch a little then get a season ending injury.

slider32
4 years 7 months ago

I agree, they would fit the mold of what they want until they can land a stud or one of their young pitchers get more experience.

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

We’ve seen what Penny has done before in the AL east and it was not pretty. Pitching for a good Red Sox team, he was awful before getting hurt.Pass on him.
Millwood has not pitched well in the last few years, Granted that a #5 starter isn’t expected to be an ace, but should give you some quality games and eat inninngs, Millwood hasn’t done that in a while. Pass on him. Yankees could bring up Kei Igawa or and unproven rookie and get the same results for less money

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Millwood and Penny are no better than Nova and Mitre is why!

4 years 7 months ago

I don’t see how the Rays can bounce back from the loss of, what, 6-7 players off their major league roster.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

They can’t right away but in 2 or 3 years they’ll be back! I still don’t like them trading Garza cuz now it’s Price and a big dropoff to a bunch of 3-4 type starters that no one fears and no bullpen at all!( I know they’re young but only Price has dominating stuff)!

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

“Fuentes Sucks” is such a tired meme, and patently absurd. He saved 48 games in 2009 and another 23 in 2010. True he did struggle, but the Halos almost immediately regretted his departure when Fernando Rodney, savior of the back end of the bullpen, was an unmitigated disaster in the closers role. And don’t start with “they should have kept KRod” he’s a thug and will do time before his legal woes are over. The Angels front office was wise to let him walk.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Went to post a comment with a link but it has to be approved first so I’ll tell you without the link if for some strange reason it doesn’t get approved. He went 8-0 over 11 starts with a 1.58 ERA in the 2nd half. Explain how that’s not a great second half?

LifeLongYankeeFan
4 years 7 months ago

Well as a Yankee fan I would take him over mitre in a heartbeat. I don’t care about his past history. I’m also still hot that the Yankees didn’t go after Greinke. I heard his anxiety disorder affects him off the field so I don’t get why the Yankees didn’t trade for him. Not wanting to trade for a cheap 27 year old AL ace sounds stupid to me.

4 years 7 months ago

48 games or not he still suxx dnt want shaky relievers in the bullpen, just bc he was better than rodney doesnt make him any good… nd they shoulda kept krod, ur just wrong all over

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

We’ll see what he does this upcoming season. I think it was more than luck. To me, all that BABIP, FIP, etc is crap. When I look at it, he won his games, lucky or not. His ERA was down, lucky or not.

4 years 7 months ago

Dude, FIP’s of 3.67 and 3.23 are NOT “solid”, in fact they are very good. Few pitchers perform at that level. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that FIP follows a pure ERA scale – it does, but at the extrema it under/overestimates ERA. Eg a pitcher with a 3.00 FIP is likely to have below a 3.00 ERA.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

w/o looking at how he pitched. general Stats alone can be a terrible way of trying to judge future success. His abnormally high LOB 85% rate could’ve consisted of mainly strike-outs, pop-ups and weak ground balls to the pitcher…or they could’ve been runners getting thrown out at the plate or fielders jumping over the wall and bringing back home runs…

if a hitter hits .490 with RISP, he is clutch
if a pitcher holds opp. to a .120 avg with RISP he is lucky?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

No, Z was great! I hate when people overanalyze numbers to downplay excellent performance with every possible stat! 8-0 and a 1.58 era is great regardless of luck! Or should I look up obscure stats for when he stunk in the first half to make him look better when he wasn’t! Way too much analyzing! For gods sake, making any kind of arguement for Zambranos 2nd half being anything other than excellent is basically arguing for arguing sake!

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

So he’s been a very good pitcher since he’s come up and that’s a fluke? It’s been all luck since he’s been up here? Come on…

slider32
4 years 7 months ago

I think Zambrano will be good this year, as long as keeps his head on straight.

Infield Fly
4 years 7 months ago

So you’re basically saying he won’t be good. :p

4 years 7 months ago

uh what? Did you actually watch him pitch for the Halos? He was a mess. It probably didn’t help that he was booed out of Angel Stadium every time he took the mound though.

4 years 7 months ago

you clearly missed the belt high fastball he threw to A-Rod in the ALCS… you know, the one that ended up in the seats to tie the game. Did I mention that said fastball was on an 0-2 count? Worst display of pitching by a “professional” I’ve ever seen.

4 years 7 months ago

Did You watch the games Fuentes pitched? He Sucks. Lol Buyer Beware.

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

I did watch him, every single game, all 71 saves across 1.5 seasons. His biggest crime was not being KRod.

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

to disregard stats is just as bad as over-depending on them.

if a pitcher has a FIP of 5.2…an ERA of 5.1…but gets run support to the tune of 7 runs per game…

he might go 15-10 that year…

put him on the mets and his record would be 5-15

Just_MLB
4 years 7 months ago

after 2010, K-Rod and crime go together like milk and cookies.

4 years 7 months ago

Go ahead and google Brian Fuentes and “blown saves”

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame or relative effectiveness in the season under contract? Borowski was effective in 2007. Does he make my all time team, obviously no. Teams work within the strictures of available and affordable and that makes Fuentes a viable relief guy; useable as a closer and outstanding as a situational lefty.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Couldn’t have put it any better myself! Fuentes is a solid setup man, not a closer!

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

I for one would also argue that if that player hit .490 with RISP for two months, that he is not clutch. He performed well in those situations over that time period but that in no way means he will perform the same over the next two months.

If the batter or pitcher in your scenario had put up those numbers consistently over a few major league seasons you could make a case that it is a skill, but performing that well over a short period (after a long period of NOT performing that well) you have to assume that they will regress back to the mean.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that he didn’t “do” great, 8-0 and 1.58 ERA is certainly good. But he got those numbers with a good bit of luck so the chances of him doing that going forward are highly unlikely, which (without putting words in notsureifsrs mouth) I think was the point.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Nuff said!

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

Give it up. 8-0 and 1.58 is no fluke! Good pitchers know how to get out of jams that stats will never show. That’s why it’s called knowing how to pitch, not knowing how to throw!

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

If that’s the case and it’s a skill, did he just learn it during last season? Because he’s never been able to put up those kind of numbers before. Or did he just decide to actually do it last season and didn’t care enough to pitch that well before?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

No pitchers gonna put up a steady of 8-0 1.58 but Zambanos always been a good pitcher and should continue to do so going forward if he keeps his head straight!

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

by that standard Dennis Eckersley must also have been worthless. Or Mariano Rivera for that matter against Boston or the Diamondbacks. A lot of readers on these posts are obviously fantasy baseball players and removed from the actual challenge of fielding a team and dealing with contracts, budgets, ticket sales, etc. I’m not on here to defend Fuentes, Borowski, et al, but there is a reason they are/were given the ball in the ninth-their manager believed them to be the most capable arm on the staff to get the final 3 outs. In that equation when a guy posts 30+ saves he is doing his job, blown saves, world series losses or otherwise. MLB GMs don’t have the gift of precognition, nor do they get to redraft every March.

firstavenger
4 years 7 months ago

“solid” and “fuentes” should never be found in the same sentence

firstavenger
4 years 7 months ago

“solid” and “fuentes” should never be found in the same sentence