Offseason In Review: New York Yankees

The Yankees are next in our Offseason In Review series.

Major League Signings

Notable Minor League Signings

International Signings

  • Juan Carlos Paniagua, Yadil Mujica, Freiter Marte, Wilmer Romero
  • 

Trades and Claims

Notable Losses

Summary

Only the Yankees can spend $130MM on free agents and have it seem like they didn't do much during the offseason.  Cliff Lee spurned the team's huge offer, but they were able to retain future Hall of Famers Jeter and Rivera while improving the bullpen.

Jeter

The Yankees ended up paying about twice what Jeter is probably worth in a strictly baseball sense, after a few unnecessary verbal jabs from both sides.  I don't have a problem with it; they can afford to overpay, and they didn't have a superior alternative at shortstop.  The price to keep Rivera was steep as well, yet he remains among the game's best relievers into his 40s.  Perhaps the Yankees found it reassuring that multiple teams were willing to offer Rivera three guaranteed years, which suggests they weren't forced to overpay just for being the Yankees.

The mystery team actually signed Lee, with the Phillies inking him to a five-year, $120MM deal in mid-December. At $148MM over seven years, the Yankees offered Lee more guaranteed money than the Rangers or Phillies.  Still, the Phillies seemingly offered the biggest salary at $24MM a year.  Had the Yankees extended themselves to $150MM over six years, they might have gotten their man – even if they represented his second or third choice.  With Pettitte's status an unknown at the time, going the extra mile for Lee still would have been the right move.  The Yankees cannot buy or trade for high-quality starting pitching if it just isn't there, and I'm not convinced this year's trade market will feature even a #2-type starter.

Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth were already off the board by the time Lee signed, and Adrian Beltre would have been an even tougher fit, so there weren't any big names left for the Yankees to pursue.  The starting pitching market was especially bleak at that point, but credit GM Brian Cashman for setting aside a potential fan backlash and exploring a reunion with Carl Pavano.

Cashman chose not to pursue Zack Greinke, who secretly met with the GM during the Winter Meetings to try to convince him he'd thrive in New York.  Jon Heyman's article implies Cashman bowed out mainly because he thought Greinke wasn't a good fit with the club, rather than balking at the Royals' asking price.  If true, it's interesting that Cashman felt Greinke was a bad fit but Pavano was a good one, but of course the stakes were higher with Greinke. 

Assuming a Matt Garza trade would have made both the Rays and Yankees uneasy, Cashman was out of options on starting pitching.  His plan at that point was apparently to toss a mere $14MM at complementary pieces Feliciano, Martin, and Jones.  There's something to be said for committing two years to Feliciano instead of three, and the Yankees will need a strong bullpen if their fourth and fifth starters consistently fail to go deep into games.  Even if Cashman wasn't on board, the Soriano signing certainly gives the team a much stronger bullpen.  The dual opt-outs are the smallest concern with that contract, which I explained in a separate post.

The Yankees' minor league signings include former big names Chavez, Colon, Garcia, Millwood, and Prior.  There are spring indications that several of them can have positive contributions for the big league club in 2011.  The main goal may be to wring a couple of good months out of the rotation candidates.

Most likely we'll hear the Yankees connected to every starting pitcher with a pulse throughout the season, after which the team's rotation could be further depleted if C.C. Sabathia opts out.  Problem is, it's hard to identify even one front-end starter who projects to be available in July.  The Yankees may need one or two of their in-house starters to exceed expectations if they are to go deep into the playoffs this year.

Photo courtesy of Icon SMI.


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195 Comments on "Offseason In Review: New York Yankees"


Kevin McCaul
4 years 4 months ago

Just a note, the Yankees pulled off the 2009 World Series with three starters, CC, AJ, and Pettitte. CC and AJ are both still in the rotation, and we now have Hughes in the rotation. Can Hughes pull Pettitte’s load? Perhaps, it’s not exactly a “long shot.” Toss in a solid performance from the 4th/5th starter (Nova, Garcia, Colon, whomever) and that’s not exactly a bad crew.

A few things have to go right for the team, but doesn’t that go without saying? No one was exactly picking the Giants to win the World Series last year.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

They won the playoffs with 3 starters and a favourable schedule to allow the team to only go with 3 starters.. getting in to the playoffs will be a completely different story..

That being said, their offense is good enough to overcome its rotation weaknesses. I see them with 4-5 less wins compared to last year, but still a front runner for the wild card.

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

The most unsung hero of the 2009 Playoffs for the Yankees isn’t any one player, it was the flawed scheduling.

The ’09 WS and LCS were set up in a way that you really only needed two solid pitchers to compete. That was eliminated in 2010 and I called it, months in advance, that this would put them at a disadvantage going into 2010’s playoffs. Sabathia was able to perform well enough to get the team two wins, but the lack of legitimate rotational depth sunk the Yankees in the end.

The Yankees, as usual, have the sheer offensive power and just enough pitching to likely make the playoffs and potentially even into the second round if luck breaks their way. I don’t see them making it past the ALCS, though.

ACra
4 years 4 months ago

Exactly. That WS was scheduled as such that it allowed them to go with the 3 man rotation since Hughes was still on his “rules” and innings limit. The line up is still ridiculous and will probably score another ~900 runs this year, but unless they pull off a big trade for a starter, I don’t see them going deep into the playoffs. Wild card and a first or second round bump depending on who they play.

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Onward, to fat jokes!

4 years 4 months ago

gimme a break guy. there rotation in 2009 was cc, aj, pettitte, joba and mitre. not a great rotation by any means and they still won 103 games. this years rotation is better and deeper. combine that with the #1 lineup in baseball and the #1 bullpen in baseball and the yankees have another 95 win team.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

cc, aj, petitte and joba gave them 4 pretty good starters.

Not too mention their competition is much improved since 2009

4 years 4 months ago

joba had a 4.75 era and your gonna tell me nova cant beat that. going into 2009 the red sox were supposedly really good then too as was tampa

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

joba was a lights out reliever in 2008. he was expected to pitch very well as a starter

phoenix2042
4 years 4 months ago

and yet he did not pitch very well as a starter, regardless of his projections. the point remains that they won 103 regular season games with top front end pitching, no depth, and a ridiculous lineup. that kind of sounds like them this year too, doesn’t it?

side note: new picture?

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

the point is that if joba had nova’s reputation going into the season, there would have been more criticism & concern – like there is now. that observation tells us more than the one about winning with the 2009 rotation

does 2009 burnett = 2011 burnett? more upside, but is a second-year pitcher in hughes the lock that pettitte was? and most importantly, is the rest of the AL East and AL in general any better than it was in 2009? how about the yankees themselves, is there lineup as good as it was in 2009?

the 2009 observation is borderline useless

also yes, new picture. pedro’s smithsonian joint

4 years 4 months ago

#1 Lineup?

NO. As much as I hate to say it I would take the Red Sox lineup before any other.

4 years 4 months ago

lol thats funny the only position player better than a yankee position player the sox have is crawford

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

Ever heard of Adrian Gonzalez?

4 years 4 months ago

yeah your gonna tell me hes a better all around player than tex now? if u want to call it even thats fine but hes not better

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

Adrian Gonzalez is probably the best player offensive player in the American League.

Teix is a fine player, but its not even close.

4 years 4 months ago

clearly you dont watch baseball your just a sox fan sucking up to your own teams players

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

nope…Lunchbox clearly loves the jays. He is about as unbiased as they come! And for the record, if A Gon played for the yanks we would all still say he is a better player than Tex.

4 years 4 months ago

keep dreamin theo. dream about this………. every player except jeter and cano was hurt in some capacity last year and all but 2 had down years and yet they still dominate every other offense in the sport. “must be a nightmare”

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

Please do not talk to me about injuries!

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

“Adrian Gonzalez is probably the best player offensive player in the American League. ”

I’m a bit of a homer and even I wouldn’t go that far. AL East? Feasibly, dependant upon one’s preferences for offensive players. That said, everything Gonzalez does offensively, Miguel Cabrera does better.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

Gonzalez has more power. Playing in a brutal hitters park .

When you factor in defense and off field issues, I’d gladly bet on Gonzalez having a higher total WAR the next 5 years

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Detroit’s pretty brutal too last I checked. Overall player quality wise, I’d take Gonzo too, but you said offensively, and Cabrera is almost certainly the better offensive player. The guy is an absolute menace at the plate.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

check again

petco last 3 years – 0.882 (26th), 0.721 (30th), 0.796 (30th)

comerica last 3 yrs – 0.981 (17th), 1.026 (13th), 1.077 (5th)

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

(2 of the last 3 years, comerica was a better place to hit than yankee stadium)

YanksFanSince78
4 years 4 months ago

Based on what figures?

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

PARK – RUNS – HR – H

2008

comerica – 1.077 – 1.188 – 1.074
yankee s – 1.040- 0.980 – 0.980

2009

comerica – 1.026 – 0.974 – 0.961
yankee s – 0.965 – 1.261 – 0.995

2010

comerica – 0.981 – 0.922 – 1.029
yankee s – 1.177 – 1.420 – 1.037

inleylandwetrust
4 years 4 months ago

Wouldn’t a big factor in those numbers be the teams playing there though more so than the park itself? For example, Detroit’s pitching the past few years has definitely been lacking, and we have run out guys like Dontrelle Willis, Nate Robertson, and Jeremy Bonderman to the mound. These guys got tee’d off on pretty bad, so the runs scored in those specific games had more to do with the quality of the pitcher on the mound than the park itself.

Also it’s no secret the Padre’s offense has been Adrian and not much else, maybe scewing the amount of run production in Petco even further.

I haven’t looked at any other stats or anything, just something that came to mind.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

the short answer to your question is yes, those are factors – but no, not big ones. there are long (sometimes very long) answers for why that isn’t as influential as you might assume, which can be confirmed (among other ways) by checking the data over multiple years

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

the petco illusion. wOBA, miles more precise than OPS, gives you the most precise picture of a player’s offensive production. wOBA* adjusts that figure for home park factors

2008

cabrera wOBA* – .369
gonzalez wOBA* – .402

2009

cabrera wOBA* – .402
gonzalez wOBA* – .442

2010

cabrera wOBA* – .427
gonzalez wOBA* – .414

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Hm. Well then. I always thought that Comerica was a pitchers’ park, so I figued the difference would be negligible enough. The more you know.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 4 months ago

Stupid question. What is wOBA* and is that different than wOBA? If it is different then where do you find it?

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

wOBA* is adjusted for home park factors. fangraphs’ wOBA i recently discovered is not

they also have wOBAr – adjusted for home park and adjusted for average on balls in play, which is interesting. but i don’t know enough to trust that one yet

YanksFanSince78
4 years 4 months ago

Where did you find wOBA* stats?

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

statcorner

4 years 4 months ago

“Adrian Gonzalez is probably the best player offensive player in the American League.

Teix is a fine player, but its not even close. ”

Hahahahahahaha! Holy cow. You are so wrong I don’t even know why I am posting a reply.

Not even close huh? Teixeira played 1 more year and has 100 more HRs.

Mark 162 game average: 286 .377 .536

A-gon 162 game average: .284 .368 .507

Looks to me like Teixiera is a better player than Gonzalez. Plus, A Gon is a mediocre 1B at best, and Tex is the best 1B in the AL.

BOOOO-ya.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

not sure where to start. maybe with counting

“Not even close huh? Teixeira played 1 more year and has 100 more HRs.”

mark teixeira has had 5350 plate appearances over 8 full seasons

adrian gonzalez has had 3631 plate apprances over 5 full seasons. their HR percentages are separated by five-tenths of one percent

i thought about correcting some other things, but meh. pearls to swine and all that

4 years 4 months ago

Oh shut up not sure. You have no clue what you are talking about. First off, keep your insults to yourself. Gonzalez has played all but ZERO games in the AL and I can’t see how anyone can say he is the best offensive player in the AL. Second, Mark hit nearly 40 Hrs for the braves when he played for them, in a “pitching heavy” division. Second, A Gon has lower stats in every category. Gonzalez BARELY averages 30 Hr a year as well. There is nothing that you or anyone can say that can justify saying Gonzalez being a better player than Teixeira. Why don’t you correct the fact that Mark has better yearly averages, and if you watch them both play, Tex is a better all around ball player as well as a better offensive player.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

“Why don’t you correct the fact that Mark has better yearly averages”

k. career slash lines are not “162 game averages” as you called them, and here’s what you get if you do actually calculate their neutralized 162-game batting lines from full seasons played:

teixeira: .282/.373/.529

gonzalez: .296/.384/.527

well that backfired dinnit? i’m sure you can think of an excuse tho

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Mark Teixeira’s OPS outside of his home ballpark (A notorious haven for lefties): .728
Adrian Gonzalez’s OPS outside of his home ballpark (One of the worst pitchers’ parks in baseball) with a shoulder injury: .980

They’re roughly equivelant fielders. Barring injury, if Teixeira actually outhits Gonzalez this year, I will change my username to matt_owns_me.

MATH IS HARD, YO!

4 years 4 months ago

who the heck cares about some random stat from 1 outlier of a year

4 years 4 months ago

fielding equivelent? lol good one

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

1 random stat…

Why even use stats? Opinions are all that matter in baseball!

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

INTANGIBLES!!!

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

2009

teixeira’s wOBA* – .403

gonzalez wOBA* – .442

2010

teixeira’s wOBA* – .366

gonzalez wOBA* – .414

not close

4 years 4 months ago

what point does that make? gonzo has played his entire career in the little fish bowl known as the nl or nl west

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

little fish bowl, or biggest fish bowl as in worst hitters park in the game!

but then again, we already covered this..who cares about stats!

4 years 4 months ago

the guy hasn;t played in a meaningful game in his life. i wanna see him against cc when the lights are bright in the al east. and gimme a break with the stats garbage i can sit here and manipulate stats too to fit my point.

WhiteSoxHomer
4 years 4 months ago

Then you should.

4 years 4 months ago

remember tex was a big reason why the yanks won the world series in 2009. adrian has never even heard of the playoffs

4 years 4 months ago

in fact what have the red sox done to improve there biggest weakness from last year there “rotation” nothing

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

that wasnt the biggest weakness…it was the bullpen! Thanks for playing though

4 years 4 months ago

the bullpen sucked but the rotation with beckett, lackey and matsusaka was poor outside of lester and clay

4 years 4 months ago

freddy and matsusaka had similar years as did burnett and beckett so the rotations have similar question marks that are clear to see

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Except the Red Sox have 2 great pitchers, the Yankees have 1 great, 1 good, and 3 ?’s

4 years 4 months ago

Dude, you are so painfully wrong. You have to pull out every non-conventional samermetric stat when you fail to look at the fact that teixeira beats him in ever, I mean EVERY single other stat. His avg, OBP, and slugging are all higher than gonzalez. Cabrera is a better hitter. Are you going to tell me that He’s better than Alex Rodriguez who the past 2 years has 30/100 in 124/137 games, respectively? You are just trying to save face for making a bad comment. Just admit that gonzalez is a good player, but he is clearly NOT the best offensive player in the AL. Sorry, but unless he goes 50/150/ .725 this year, there is nothing you can say that will convince me that he is the best offensive player in the AL without playing ONE game in the American League. Jesus dude. This has got to be one of the worst and over exaggerated comments someone has made yet on this sight. Yikes.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

lol says the guy who’s using RBI’s to prove a point

move a long little boy, this is big boy talk

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

non-conventional samermetric stat

“i don’t understand what you said, but i disagree with it strongly”

4 years 4 months ago

Sabermetric stat. My bad.

“lol says the guy who’s using RBI’s to prove a point

move a long little boy, this is big boy talk”.

OK, so RBIs aren’t important anymore. Ok. I get it. Then Derek Jeter is better than Gonzalez.

Lunchbox is a D-Bag. That is for sure, in case you are not sure…

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Adrian Gonzalez would like a word with you and Mark Teixeira’s .728 2010 road OPS.

4 years 4 months ago

lol ok nice random stat. wellcome to the big boy league adrian where you will face the best pitchers and teams in the world. gonzales put up numbers in the weak nl west lets see him get it done in the al east where he has to learn new pitchers, new ballparks etc…..

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

The best pitchers from 2005 like Bartolo Colon, AJ Burnett, and Freddy Garcia.

Don’t worry about things that actually matter like, now. He played in a division with pitchers like, Latos, Lincencum, Cain, Kershaw, Billingsley. Unfortunately for you, he doesn’t have to face the Red Sox rotation.

4 years 4 months ago

lol ok guy are u actaully implying that the sox rotation is good? cause if u are you need serious help. cc sabathia-ace burnett 3.99 career era had one bad year last year. phil hughes-18 game winner in first full season as starter in “al east” garcia outpitched matsusaka last year check the numbers.

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

So because Burnett was ONLY bad for one year we should assume he will be good again. Even though Hughes was ONLY good for one year, we should also assume that means he will be good again. Makes sense!?!?

bomberj11
4 years 4 months ago

Hughes had nine runs per game when he pitched. Those eighteen wins are a bit inflated…

ACra
4 years 4 months ago

Yes, he put up those numbers while facing such scrubs as Lincecum, U. Jiminez, Cain, Kershaw, etc. Keep talking Yankee homer, you’re making yourself look like a real fool.

bomberj11
4 years 4 months ago

Weak NL West? Yeah, ’cause the Giants, Rockies, and Dodgers have no pitching staffs…

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

I will agree and say that Adrian Gonzalez is a slightly better hitter than Teixeria but you shouldn’t really go based solely on 2010. Joey Votto had a higher OPS than Pujols, are you honestly going to say Votto > Pujols?

By the way Votto’s OPS was higher on the road than at home despite playing in one of the friendliest hitters parks

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

“I will agree and say that Adrian Gonzalez is a slightly better hitter than Teixeria but you shouldn’t really go based solely on 2010.”

Teixeira’s road OPS in 2009: .882. Much better than his awful 2010.

Buuuuuuuut…

A healthy Adrian Gonzalez still OPS’ed 1.045 on the road in 2009.

Gonzalez isn’t a slightly better hitter than Teixeira. Gonzalez is, all around, a much better hitter than Teixeira.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

OPS+

Texieria- 134
Gonzalez- 137

As I said, a little better, but if you think much better, check again

Now I will await on you to tell me something like Pedroia is better than Cano (at hitting)

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

On-base percentage is a great statistic because it tells you something important, and in a clear language: at what rate did this player reach base? It doesn’t tell you how far he reached base (second base? third? home?), but only whether he did or did not.

Slugging percentage is another great statistic because it tells you something important, and in a clear language: how many bases did the batter gain for himself per at-bat? It doesn’t consider walks as either a positive or negative event (it simply strips them away as if they don’t exist). It also tries to establish the importance of the single and HR by weighting the HR four times as much as the single.

We have one statistic that is deficient in one area, and another one that is deficient in another. Why not simply combine them as: OBP plus SLG, and call it this new-age statistic named OPS? Might this statistic allow the deficiencies in OBP and SLG to cancel each other out? Let’s see.

From the preceding section, we know the run values of each event. For example, we know that the run value of the HR is 1.4 runs above average, and 1.7 runs above the run value of the out. In rate measures, like OBP, the value of the out in the numerator is zero. If we recast the run values of the most common events relative to the out (rather than relative to the result of an average plate appearance), we get the following:

HR 1.70, 3B 1.37, 2B 1.08, 1B 0.77, NIBB 0.62.

Those numbers are the values of each of our events (again, relative to an out, which now has a value of zero). If we apply these weights to the statistics of a league-average hitter, and divide by plate appearances, we end up with a rate of almost 0.300. This is a fairly convenient number for an average, but we can do better. Since we like OBP as a measure of a batter’s effectiveness, let’s scale our new statistic so that the resulting values are similar to OBP values. It turns out that, if we add 15% to this 0.300 figure, we get the league-average OBP. Therefore, we will add 15% to the weights of each event and define our new statistic as follows:

(0.72xNIBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90x1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24x2B + 1.56x3B + 1.95xHR) / PA

Note: Depending on the specific analysis, the PA term (plate appearances) may exclude bunts, IBB, and a few of the more obscure plays.

Do we really need another statistic? Yes, we do. Instead of trying to take two statistics (OBP, SLG) and combine and correct their flaws in the hopes of getting one number, we prefer to start from scratch. Furthermore, by recasting the number onto the OBP scale, it makes it much easier for the reader to get a grasp on the number. wOBA is weighted on-base average (we call it an average rather than a percentage).

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

I assume by the italics it was an article. However I thank you for responding to me and not a fellow Red Sox fan who bought up the stat to begin with, and only to see me to Reply to it.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

read the thread again, this time without the paranoia

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Paranoia? It’s more like humor.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

that’s what they want you to believe

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

I’m referring to all the comments in this thread, mostly by Matt, not humor in your post or anything with the OPS

4 years 4 months ago

Based on that, then you say that Teixeira is a better ball player than Gonzalez. Hands down. Better avg, more power, better OBP, and switch hitter. He’s better than Gonzalez. I can’t see how he isn’t.

Tex career OPS: .913
A Gon career OPS: .875

Not even close.

Where mark teixiera had a down year last year, he still out produced him while playing two less games. 33-108 vs 31-101.

Tell me how A gon is better again.

MaineSox
4 years 4 months ago

I’m just going to quote notsureifsrs on this one because I don’t think there is a better way to say it:

“2009

teixeira’s wOBA* – .403

gonzalez wOBA* – .442

2010

teixeira’s wOBA* – .366

gonzalez wOBA* – .414

not close”

In case you didn’t catch it wOBA* is park adjusted.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

the comment you replied to explains why OPS is imprecise and less reliable than wOBA, but you “read” it and said “YEAH I KNOW OPS IS SO GOOD, HAVE A LOOK AT THESE OPS NUMBERS”

i’m not confident that you are fluent in english at this point, leave alone “samermetrics”

4 years 4 months ago

Dude, you are retarded. It was a typo because I use a wireless keyboard and sometimes it doesn’t respond. Jesus, you are the biggest A-Hole on the internet if you can’t figure that out.

Mark Teixeira is a better ball player than Adrian Gonzalez.

Here’s another stat you might want to see that proves that I am right and you red sox/anti-yankee people can chew on:

RISP, less than two outs career:

OPS:

Tex: 1.059

A-gon: .855

THAT is not even close.

And about the “wOBA”, Mark Teixiera is over his career a worse road player than he is a home player, no matter if he’s in texas, ny, ATL, or LA. His away avg is nearly 40 points less for his career. Not that he’s terrible on the road, but the ball park he plays in at home is less of a factor since he typically does better at home, regardless of the size of the ball park.

What you people are doing is discrediting this guy’s career, which is statistically as solid as any other first baseman in baseball. He hits in the clutch in meaningful games (see what he did in LA and also his first year in NY, save his bad performance in October in 09) and gonzalez has proven NOTHING. I think he’s going to have a good year in the HITTER friendly fenway (and then I can say that he only has good stats because of his park) but the bottom line is lets see what he does this year, with more pressure than he’s had at any point in his career.

Oh, and when he leads the league in LOB, let’s see the Boston media rip this guy apart the way the NY media destroys anyone on the Yankee roster when they fail to drive in a run. What I am saying is that RBIs ARE IMPORTANT for those of you who don’t understand that you have to drive in runs to win games…

And I hope A Gon has a good year and hits .350 at fenway so the rest of us can talk about how much the park helped him.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

here let me cite OPS again because i literally cannot read

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

The biggest thing you’re ignoring here is the parks.

Teixeira, as noted, plays in a park that is notoriously lefty friendly. For crying out loud, Johnny Damon hit close to twenty home runs in ’09 as a result of that place. As I’ve noted, his splits when playing on the road are honestly pretty mediocre for a first baseman the last two years.

Gonzalez, on the other hand, has OPS’ed better than Teixeira while playing half of his games in a gigantic park.

Taking away the park factor, which is VERY heavily weighted in Teixeira’s favor, Gonzalez is a MUCH better hitter. Accounting for the fact that Gonzalez will be hitting in Fenway for 81 games a year now, expect the different in their overall stat line to become much more pronounced.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

“The biggest thing you’re ignoring here is the parks.”

Why is why I put OPS+, OPS+ is park adjusted in case you did not know

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Considering the stark difference in their road splits, I’d love to see the formula they used to determine that that absolutely insane difference in road numbers translates to so miniscule of a difference in OPS+. I can’t imagine a way that that makes any logical sense.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Hey I’m just posting what they show, that is all. But I’m sure I can find it advanced somewhere. I’ll re-check

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

tOPS+ on the road for Texieira is 88 (career)

For Gonzalez on the road, it is 114

Home for Texieira is 112
Home for Gonzalez is 86

So yes Gonzalez benefits more on the road and Texeira away

If I may bring up another leftie (different position but same team), Robinson Cano

He has a higher tOPS on the Road than at Home.

tOPS Away is 102, at Home is 98. Fairly close, but Cano is a better hitter away than at home

And as I mentioned earlier about Pedroia

Home- 113, Away- 87

Note, tOPS I believe will always equal 200 total.

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

I dunno how Pedroia and Cano got factored into this. I’d call them close to equivelant valuewise based on Pedroia’s glove (Though we’ll see what next year holds as Cano took huge steps last year), but there’s never been any question that Cano’s bat is clearly the superior one, and I’m well aware of the fact Pedroia is very much a product of Fenway (I love the guy, but he never would’ve won an MVP playing for anyone but the Sox).

MaineSox
4 years 4 months ago

“I’d call them close to equivelant valuewise” I thought so too but WAR doesn’t. Over the last three years Pedroia has put up 4.0 more WAR in 100 less games. To be fair Cano wasn’t the player in ’08 that he has been in ’09-’10, but if you discount Cano’s ’08 you definitely discount Pedroia’s injured ’10 and you still have Pedroia 1.0 WAR ahead of Cano in their last two healthy years.

4 years 4 months ago

how bout 33 and 108 in his worst year as a pro. are u kidding me texiera’s down year is a career year for anyone else

4 years 4 months ago

arod 30 and 125 in a bad year…. ha ha ha ha god this lineup is special. our entire infield will be hall of fame bound

WhiteSoxHomer
4 years 4 months ago

Are you arguing that Texeira is the best first baseman in baseball?

4 years 4 months ago

In the AL? yeah, I think he’s the best fielder. That’s just opinion though.

Best overall 1B? I think so too. I would rather have him than Cabrera because Miguel Cabrera could wind up in jail at any moment. Off the field stuff is a distraction.

MaineSox
4 years 4 months ago

The stats don’t agree, and before you say it I know “watch the games!” but just bear with me here.

According to UZR over the last three years Daric Barton has been the best defensive 1B in the AL followed by Morneau, Youkilis, Overbay and then Teixeira. Don’t like UZR? TZ still has Overbay better than Teixeira.

Offensively? wRC+ and wOBA both have it Youkilis #1, Cabrera #2, Teixeira #3 in the AL.

Overall? WAR says Youkilis #1, Cabrera #2, Morneau #3, Teixeira #4.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

the best stat is my gut and that stat tells me mark teixeira is the bestest

4 years 4 months ago

Well, those are compelling stats, and I can’t say that Morneau and Overbay are not better than Teixiera. But I did say it was my opinion, so take that into consideration. I wasn’t using stats for creating that opinion, and to be fair, you must recognize that.

And what you are saying is that based on those #’s, Teixiera is offensively behind Youk and drunk Cabrera? Ok. That’s pretty good and I’ll take that. And let’s stop talking abouy Youk as being a 1B now because it’s obvious that he won’t be playing 1B unless of an injury.

I have no problem with Tex being #4 in WAR.

So based on what you said here, I really can’t be faulted for my opinion can’t be faulted. He’s a top 5 fielder (whom I have seen him make some amazing plays in his career-you need to watch him bail out all of the low and erratic throws from jeter and cano) and a top 3 Offensive player. And I’d take him over Youkilis, who isn’t always healthy and is really a 3B, over Morneau because he is also an injury concern (although if I was certain he’d be healthy for 162 I’d seriously consider it), certainly over Lyle because he really isn’t that good overall, and Daric Barton has no power whatsoever. So that leaves Cabrera, who I don’t trust because of his off the field cr*p.

So yeah, in my opinion, Mark Teixera is the best first baseman, O and D, in the AL. And he’s a switch hitter, which leaves more lineup options. Plus, he’s sober, which you can’t say about Cabrera.

threeeds
4 years 4 months ago

You’re really not going to leave that ‘drunk Cabrera’ thing alone are you? Guess people can’t drink nowadays.

bomberj11
4 years 4 months ago

He plays in Yankee Stadium, a hitters park. He’s also surrounded by great offensive players who get on base. Of course he’ll have 33/108.

4 years 4 months ago

OF COURSE he doesn’t have any talent whatsoever, and he never put up numbers like that anywhere else, because you know, he’s always played with great players around him…

But Adrian Gonzalez is the best player in the AL! Better than A-Rod! Better than Cabrera! He’s the best and hasn’t even played a game yet! You know, since he is now on the red sox, he’s better than Pujoles!

When Gonzalez hits 35/125 this year, it will be because he hits in a hitter’s ball park surrounded by the “so called” best lineup in baseball. He’s surrounded by great players who get on base.

On one hand, you all say the Yankee’s line up isn’t that good, but then you say “he’s surrounded by great players” which is why his stats are good….which is it? Do they suck or are they great? None of you are really making any sense, and you are starting to sound like Yankee fans! Talk about homers!!!! Sheesh!

4 years 4 months ago

and yes there will be quality arms available at the deadline if necessary. carpenter, buerhle etc…

inleylandwetrust
4 years 4 months ago

Carpenter and Buehrle won’t be available unless their teams are completely out of it. So no, you won’t be adding a Chris Carpenter caliber pitcher at the deadline.

4 years 4 months ago

thanks nostradomus considering wainrights injury and the fact that carpeneter has an option for next year hell prob be traded when they eventaully fall out of the race.

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

You obviously have no clue. You keep reading who the NY writers are saying the Yankees will get. Out here in the real-world we will just watch.

Cardinals aren’t going to trade Carpenter if he is pitching well and healthy. A 1 year contract is what you want a pitcher on at his age. That’s what it will be next year, as long as he has a solid year this year. If he is hurt and not pitching well, then you can have him.

Buehrle has said he will not go anywhere unless it is good for his family. In other words, he will be with the the White Sox, Cubs, or Cardinals.

4 years 4 months ago

apparantly you dont even follow your own team. the cardinals need to resign pujols and they cant do that and pick up carpenter’s option who is 36 already.

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

Yes, show me the reports that say “Cardinals cannot re-sign Pujols while paying Carpenter 15MM” You are in too deep, you are a Yankee homer and are making yourself look like a fool.

4 years 4 months ago

remember my name when carpenter is traded or not resigned

4 years 4 months ago

i know your bitter cause your ace is hurt and your team is finished but facts are facts

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

Our Ace is hurt, we have half the payroll, and our rotation still looks as good as the Yanks.

4 years 4 months ago

yankee haters can use there voodoo dolls and continue praying that the yankees falter but they aint going anywhere. btw wait till banuelos and betances come up.. oooh that scary right there!

Bernaldo
4 years 4 months ago

If you think you think the Yankees are going to trade for a front line pitcher, say Chris Carpenter at the trade deadline, say bye-bye to one for sure and probably both!

bomberj11
4 years 4 months ago

Stop, please…

4 years 4 months ago

beckett?- in a major decline the last 2 years lackey? will he bounce back and matsusaka is a trainwreck

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 4 months ago

Ok… you really want to play that game? Beckett injured last year, Lackey in a new ballpark but a good number of quality starts, Matsuzaka still putting up #5 pitcher numbers (If yanks fans are going to say Garcia is going to be a great #5 and Matsuzaka won’t be they really should compare both’s numbers last year).

On the other side: Burnett, seen his numbers drop since he left Florida. Phil Hughes, yet to have a 200 inning season. Ivan Nova, yet to top 50 innings in the majors. And that’s not even adding in Colon as the 6th starter.

4 years 4 months ago

your clueless guy. u make excuses for your sox and make up garbage about the yanks. burnetts numbers havent dropped since florida he had one bad year last year. last year was phil hughes first year as a full time starter genius! and nova just came up at the end of last year that why he only has 50 innings.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Well Beckett still made 21 starts which is still a good number of starts in a season. I wouldn’t use the “he was injured” excuse on Beckett to say he had a bad year. Simply put, Beckett had a bad year

A lot of people (including myself) said Andy Pettitte had a great year. Pettitte and Beckett each made 21 starts. You can’t exclude one without the other.

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Beckett was dealing with back issues most of the year. Pettitte didn’t suffer his groin injury until past the ASB. As I recall, he struggled for a few weeks after coming back from said injury.

And a quick check says I was right:

Pettitte posted an ERA in the low 3’s (Completely guessing based off his rough numbers) in eighteen starts prior to his injury in July. In three starts in September after coming back from the injury? A 6.75 ERA.

Quite comparable, really.

4 years 4 months ago

quite comparable? lol lol lol god your pathetic beckett had a season era of near 6.00 how does that compare to pettites 3.28 era for the season? pettite had 2 poor starts when he came back in september and then domnated in the playoffs. get a clue

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

What I don’t get is why you are comparing how someone did in 18 starts as opposed to 3 starts? If you like going based on small sample sizes what about his 2.57 ERA in the playoffs in 2 starts?

Beckett did not hit the DL until May, his ERA at that time was 7.29. When he came back his ERA for the rest of the year was 5.01 and a season ERA of 5.78.

4 years 4 months ago

Burnett’s number dropped since he left florida? On what, MLB the show?

Since leaving FL he’s pitched 200 innings twice, won 50+ games, lead the AL in strikeouts, all PICTHING IN THE AL EAST.

I just love how these Red Sox fans/yankee haters manipulate stats for their own argument. On one hand, Mark Teixiera isn’t better than A Gon because he plays in hitter’s ball parks. On the other hand, AJ isn’t as good as he was in florida and yet no one mentions he has pitched the last 5 years in those same hitters ball parks.

Be consistent.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

won 50+ games

lol

lol

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

it is convenient that he and matt have the same avatar. it is as if they have been branded

mlbtr should look into this kind of color-coding system

bomberj11
4 years 4 months ago

Beckett was injured last year, and Lackey had a great second half.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

But he still made 21 starts. Beckett did not get hurt until late May. His ERA at the time of the season was well above 7. He came back fine, but his 2nd half (or 2nd return) of the season his ERA was 5.01. Simply put, when he was healthy, he did not pitch good

4 years 4 months ago

cc-ace pitcher hughes-18 game winner only gonna get better burnett-coming off first and only bad year of career will definately bounce back and nova is very talented so they’ll be fine.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

hughes 1st yr 18 game winner….only gonna get better!

2nd yr..we should expect 36 wins!

HHHDMS
4 years 4 months ago

Its pitching that gets you to the ALCS, WS & if the Yanks do not have enough pitching they wont make it. You cant expect the offense to bail them out of 8-1 ballgames all the time..
CC better pitch lights out, Hughes needs the offense to bail him out, AJ needs to bounce back , Nova and Garcia are ??? I thought Colon had a better spring than Garcia – I guess when Garcia doesnt have it Colon can be the long man
On paper Boston appears to have a better lineup – but hey that’s why they play the game And their rotation is all ??? After Lester & Bucholtz ..Becket is hittable, Lackey is past his prime and Matsuzaka is erratic

4 years 4 months ago

once again how is the red sox lineup better? if you go player for player the only advantage for the sox is crawford over gardner that it!

Thurman8er
4 years 4 months ago

Yu Darvish has already been measured for pinstripes.

4 years 4 months ago

people need a reality check here tex=agon cano>pedroia jeter>scutaro arod=youk swish>drew grandy>ellsbury crawford>gardner martin>salty

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

I would like to know who this 1 person is who likes your comments! Funny almost all of your opinions have 1 like…hmmm…who could it be?

ellisburks
4 years 4 months ago

Reality > Matt

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

i will do what you failed to do – for funsies! that is, i’ll actually look at each player’s total offensive output – and then compare them. that way we’ll have a realistic idea of how they stack up

numbers listed are wOBA* averaged over previous two full seasons. wOBA* is adjusted for home park factors

YANKEES 2011 LINEUP

gardner – .350
jeter – .359
teixeira – .385
rodriguez – .383
cano – .383
swisher – .375
posada – .366
granderson – .342
martin – .325

TEAM wOBA* – .363

RED SOX 2011 LINEUP

crawford – .374
pedroia – .360
gonzalez – .428
youkilis – .412
ortiz – .363
scutaro – .342
drew – .374
salty – .308
ellsbury – .341

TEAM wOBA* – .367

POSITIONAL COMPARISON

C +17 NYY (+17)

1B +43 BOS (-26)

2B +23 NYY (-3)

3B +29 BOS (-26)

SS +17 NYY (-9)

LF +24 BOS (-33)

CF +1 NYY (-32)

RF +1 NYY (-31)

TOTAL DIFFERENTIAL: -31 NYY or +31 BOS

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Good stats, I’ve been looking more into wOBA

However didn’t you say you like leadoff hitters who have high wOBA’s?

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

i like all hitters who have high wOBAs

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

lol

ellisburks
4 years 4 months ago

Wow, Matt really is a homer. There are homers out there but then he takes the cake. Then CC and Bartolo eat him for taking it.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

HAAAHhahahaaahahaha…I just had ppl in my office look at me funny bc I laughed so loud!

4 years 4 months ago

im a homer yeah ok there ellis lol reality hurts for most pepole and im sure your no different

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

The first fat joke of this thread took way too long. Poor form, folks.

ellisburks
4 years 4 months ago

I noticed that and took care of it. I am just sorry I couldn’t do it sooner. My apologies.

4 years 4 months ago

are there any intelligent fans out there?

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

Not here…We are just the dummies that rely on stats. No intelligence at all! None!

Just you sir. Thank you for all of you enlightening opinions!

4 years 4 months ago

No, only red sox fans are dummies who will NEVER admit that their team is flawed and is very beatable this year.

If they finish behind Baltimore I am going to laugh until I puke up my spleen. that would be just as hilarious as you guys going up on NY 8-0 and then tanking in the second half of the season….then getting destroyed by LA in the first round. Oh, that felt so good.

So, let’s just see ho it turns out. I think you are in for a very long season because your team has just as many flaws and problems as any team in baseball. Plus, you overpaid for Crawford. He won’t improve your team THAT much.

As long as Paplebon is on your team, no lead in the 9th inning is safe. He utterly collapsed mentally in the past 2 years. Say hello to the 21st century Mark Wohlers.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

“No, only red sox fans are dummies who will NEVER admit that their team is flawed and is very beatable this year.”

Hard to argure cold hard facts!

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Stop trolling about how good the Yankees are. We know their strengths and weaknesses.

4 years 4 months ago

But apparently you have no idea what the Red Sox weakness are.

Here they are: Bench, Short, RF (bum), CF (two bums) bullpen, Bucholz’s health, Catcher (2 more bums), closer’s head.

Strengths? That freaking ball park, Lester, Red Sox disdain and hatred for the rest of the world, and your Manager. He’s one of the best.

So why don’t you get off your green monster high horse and admit that the red sox are not a “lock” to win the division as they have a ton of holes. The yankees have their holes, but I think they are less than the red sox have. The Yankees have 2 big holes in their rotation, but the best BP in baseball, an exceptional bench, and a long lineup.

Add to the fact that they have a #5 farm system with some highly coveted pitching prospects, they have a good chance at filling one of those two pitching voids by mid season.

I am sorry you Boston Red Sox Honks; I am NOT giving you the division that easily. If the sox are 8 games up, then you can talk. But be careful; you guys have blown leads on NY in 5 of the past 7 years. So it’s always stupid to talk crud a week before the season starts. Talk to me in August when you guys just blew a 5 game lead again by getting swept at home in a 4 game series…again. (and you can relive 2004 all that you want for the rest of your life; it still doesn’t give you the division or the series NOW).

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

Oyy where to begin. First of all, I’m not a Red Sox fan, I am a Yankee fan. I didn’t mention anything about the Red Sox strengths and weaknesses, I was specifically saying to stop bragging about the Yankees.

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Water finds its own level.

4 years 4 months ago

the reality is the red sox and yankees are for me the 2 best teams in baseball. best 2 offenses and quality bullpens. the sox rotation is better mainly because of lackey and his proven track record. cc, aj, and hughes is very close to lester, clay, and beckett though as is diasuke and freddy. ivan nova i believe will surprise some people too. throw in the farm systems of both teams and payroll and its going to be a long year for the rest of the al

ellisburks
4 years 4 months ago

That I agree with, mostly.

4 years 4 months ago

this is waht pises me off with people. i said cc, aj, and hughes are close to lester, clay, and beckett as a top 3

ellisburks
4 years 4 months ago

Yeah, I didn’t read it right which is why I changed my response and said I mostly agree. I think all the way through the Red Sox rotation is quite a bit better but the rest is right. I apologize for the first response. I am hooked on phonics.

East Coast Bias
4 years 4 months ago

This thread makes my head hurt…

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

Mlbtr should have a skilltesting question before posting

make it happen ECB!

4 years 4 months ago

In that case, they should have gene testing to weed out all of the in-bred, knuckledragging red sox fans who have less active brain cells than most of the rotting corpses in Calvary Cemetery.

You people are usually too drunk to make any sense. I suggest a sobriety test for posting on this site.

Make it happen, MLBTR!!!!

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

If you clicked the comments section on this thread without expecting pretty much exactly what happened, you got what was coming to you.

4 years 4 months ago

theo here’s a stat for your liking since you continue to run your mouth “27 world champoinships”

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

that’s like taking credit for winning the revolutionary war

iheartyourfart
4 years 4 months ago

give me october or give me death

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

I like this one. I think I’m sticking with it.

4 years 4 months ago

HUH? You are definitely drunk.

OK. Since the last strike, who won more games, more divisions, and more championships? Who, of the two, won the most recent one? Which one brings in more revenue? has more fans worldwide? Has a better ball park? has a better farm system right now?

Yikes. NY even has better looking women. Have you SEEN the swamp-thing hood rats from Boston? NO WONDER why you guys drink so much.

Give up and stop talking trash. You can’t say anything because you haven’t won anything. the off season of 2007 and 2004 you guys could do all the talking you want. Now, shut up until you win something of value.

If you want to get handed a world series win in March, I suggest you play “MLB The Show”.

And you really should look into AA. I hear that helps some people who drink 18 quarts of Newcastle a day…but if you quit drinking, you’ll have to OD on sudafed to tolerate the snaggle toothed harpies you call “New England women”. They look like monsters from Godzilla movies.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 4 months ago

so quick questions…and think before you respond mmmk.

Which team (Sox or yanks) has won more world series in the past decade?

East Coast Bias
4 years 4 months ago

Also, why isn’t anyone talking about that Cashman/Greinke secret meeting? Was that a different thread I just completely missed? Heyman really tries hard to vilify Zack in that article. Very off putting.

TakeDeadAimOnTheRichBoys
4 years 4 months ago

Heyman makes up half the stuff he writes. It’s garbage. The whole thing sounds phony. Greinke isn’t a Boras client. He supposedly almost switched to Boras at one point but didn’t. Sources tell me that with Boras feeling snubbed, he had to stick his henchman, Heyman, on the job of bringing the kid down. See how great anonymous sources are?

4 years 4 months ago

They played UNO and ate Papa Johns pizza at that meeting. They had a play date, that’s why they won’t talk about it.

When Grenke beat Cashman, he got POed and didn’t trade for Grenksy. Cashman is a herb like that. You have to let him win or else….he tells his mommy on you.

Bob George
4 years 4 months ago

If Sabathia opts out, he’s just going to sign for more money/years with the Yankees.

MB923
4 years 4 months ago

I posted in the other thread about it. They would be extremly stupid to do that. They shoudl just offer the same amount of what would be left on his 7 year deal. (4 more years, and about the same AAV). No team matched his current one, I don’t see them givnig him more money than he’s making. The Yankees would be foolish to offer him more money.

Bernaldo
4 years 4 months ago

I’m curious what other guys who don’t like either the Red Sox or the Yankees think about this back-and-forth. I don’t know but I suspect that most of us who are neutral would take the Red Sox rotation over the Yankees by a lot, the Yankees bullpen slightly over the Red Sox bullpen (Rivera is still the best), and the everyday lineup a toss-up.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

as a neutral party, and by neutral I mean I hate both teams equally.

You have to give the edge to the Sox. I anticipated the Sox having a top 3 rotation last year, things didn’t work out, but one bad year from becket, 1/2 year from lackey shouldn’t alter projections.

The Sox should win the division pretty handledly.

but the yanks only lost petitte from last year and cruised in to the wild card. I don’t think they will challenge for the division unless they acquire a top end starter, but I don’t see another team being a close challenger for the wild card.

both should make the playoffs, then who knows what will happen.

4 years 4 months ago

The AL West will have the wild card team this year. They have 2 teams that are better than the Yankees. Yankees will miss the playoffs this year and could finish 3rd in the division.

notsureifsrs
4 years 4 months ago

no

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

The fact that those teams are improved might work against them as they the rangers, A’s and Angels will have to duke it out with eachother.

PostMoBills
4 years 4 months ago

I like to think I’m a neutral party, but I would understand if people think I’m not. I hate both teams equally. Anyway, I think the Red Sox have the better lineup, but that could be neutralized by the stadium difference. The Sox have a better rotation. The Yankees have a much better bullpen; I especially don’t trust Papelbon.

I think the Red Sox will win the division, but the Yankees will still make the playoffs. Some combination of Twins/Tigers/White Sox could steal the Wild Card, but I doubt it. That would require one of those three falling off because if, for example, the White Sox have a terrible year, it will be real easy for the Twins/Tigers to rack up wins on the WSox/Royals/Indians. Everything I’ve said is my opinion of course. If someone wants to blast me and say the Yankees have the better lineup I will just say that is their opinion, as well.

EDIT: While I’m sort of on-topic. I would also like to say that, at this point, I am one of those that consider the Red Sox as being just as bad (or good) at “buying” championships as the Yankees. The Red Sox have a lot of homegrown talent, and have been better at drafting, but both their payrolls are so much greater than anyone else’s that it’s borderline comical. In conclusion, yes, I do consider Red Sox fans that claim the Yankees spend too much money to be hypocrites. (once again, just my opinion)

Fangaffes
4 years 4 months ago

When all is said and done, the opening day payroll for the Red Sox will be about $30MM less than the Yankees and barely more than the Phillies. In fact, if the Astros weren’t paying part of Oswalt’s salary, the Phillies would be the #2 payroll this year.

stl_cards16
4 years 4 months ago

Until the pay Agon, which is in about two weeks.

Lunchbox45
4 years 4 months ago

That would start in 2012. he’s under contract for 11 already

0bsessions
4 years 4 months ago

Abusing the system! Hot yeah!

MaineSox
4 years 4 months ago

As Lunchbox says that wont go into effect until 2012, and if they fill their holes in RF, SS, DH, and closer they could actually be $30mil less than they are this year, even including Gonzalez.

Fangaffes
4 years 4 months ago

Um, no. AGon’s pay doesn’t go up until next year. After $40MM or so comes off the books. Nice try, though.

4 years 4 months ago

Homegrown starters in their line up:

Youk and Dustin. (eslbury is considered the starter on their depth chart but cameron will start some games)

Starting rotation: lester, Bucholz…dice K doesn’t count as “home grown” because they spent $100mm on getting him.

Bench/bullpen: Bard, Paps, doubront, lowrie.

Boston has 8 Home grown players.

NY:

Jeter, Cano, Posada, Gardner, Nunez, Pena, Joba, Rivera, Montrero, Nova, Hughes.

NY has 11 home grown players on this team.

How has Boston been better at drafting?

NY has a top ten minor league system now, while boston is ranked 11th or lower in several sources i have seen.

So I agree with your initial premise about Sox-honks being hypocrites, but the truth of the matter is that NY has actually been better at drafting and building a farm system too.

I hate boston.

4 years 4 months ago

What I don’t get is that Josh Beckett is a major question mark this year, Bucholz has some health issues, and you all STILL thing the red sox is rotation is “better by a lot”. On paper it looks really good, but I really think the red sox will have some serious problems this year. Beckett is a head case. Dice-BB will have control issues, as he always does, and Lackey will yield you 1-2 more wins or even 1-2 less wins this year.

I am saying this right now. The red sox will NOT win the division this year. Too many holes, too many flaws, and I don’t see them with the chips to make a trade at the deadline.

To recap my “flaws” of the red sox: Beckett’s head, Bucholz’s health, bullpen and papelbon(finished in boston), RF, CF, Short, Bench, and catcher. If you think JD drew, varitekalamachia, Mike Cameron/Jackofby Eslbury, and micro Scutaro make boston win the division “handedly” you are crazy. If all of those guys have career years it still won’t make them win “handedly”. You do realize that lineup gets *really short* if those guys slump all at the same time (which will happen, especially when Drew decides to take two months off). If your starting pitching doesn’t carry the team and stay healthy, pitch 7-8 innings every time out and hand Paplebon a 3 run lead (because he is going to blow 7 games this year) they won’t come close to winning the div. You really trust that bullpen? Bobby Jenks? Dan Wheeler? Dennys Reyes? Are you KIDDING me? Alfredo bad back Aceves? Hideki Okajima BARELY broke camp and Daniel Bard throws a 98 MPH STRAIGHT fastball. This bullpen is waiting to collapse. And if you factor in Bucholz’s health (can he stay health for ONE year????) you shouldn’t have such hubris about your team.

And don’t forget that you can’t throw ANYONE out. You have NO bench, so when Youkilis gets hurt (which he will….he has never played 150 games in any year of his career) and when Pedroia gets hurt (which he might) who are you going to replace them with? JED LOWRIE?

Look, the Red Sox have a decent team. A pretty good team. But they are a fraglie team, physically and mentally. You have too many holes in the line up and lack depth, plus you have some major players who are injury concerns. If Bucholz goes down again, who fills in? Aceves? NY fans know how THAT will turn out: A broken Alfredo back! So before you all jump to conclusions and hand Boston the division, remember that your BIGGEST obstacle is the health of your top players and the mental health of beckett and Papschemere. Oh, and don’t give me the whole wakfield thing. He is old and that floating knuckler flattens out at the end of every year. If he is filling in for one of your starters you will have a really long, long year.

You guys can’t win anything without a totally injury free year.

On the other hand, NY actually has some depth, and if someone gets hurt in that rotation, like hughes or burnett (If CC gets hurt it’s over; but the same can be said about lester, no?) then they can bring up one of those young arms for a start or they can throw Colon or Garcia out there, and any of those guys can hold the fort for a short DL stint of a starter. And the yanks Bullpen gives them a HUGE insurance policy. You are underestimating the feliciano and soriano signings, which put them over the top as a monster bull pen. And they have serviceable second tier guys to fill in.

So maybe NY isn’t as good on paper, but they have more depth and a deep farm system that can land them a high end starter in a trade (should one come available).

Red Sox fans: Don’t count your chickens before your eggs hatch. Stay health the entire year and you may win the whole thing. But ONE extended DL stint for any of your top players are you are toast.

wickedkevin
4 years 4 months ago

This thread is HILARIOUS.

4 years 4 months ago

Listen, you half bread mongoloid, the argument was that his stats dropped since leaving Florida, and my counter argument was that they didn’t.

I am sorry, but I still count wins and losses as an important stat when evaluating a starting pitcher. Last time I checked, if you have the most wins at the end of the season, the team with the most wins is the division winner, not the team with the highest ERA+. Guys who win games typically are in there for more innings, throw more pitches, and have to work out of more jams.

Whatever, the argument was that he has gotten worse since leaving FL, and all I saw him do for 4 years was light up boston and other AL east teams in those *hitters ball parks*. He’s had one bad year (2010) since leaving FL.

Prove that wrong instead of tossing insults.

4 years 4 months ago

You are just a D*I*C*K. I find it funny how ALL Red Sox fans do this. All they do is insult people who don’t agree with them. This is what happens when cousins marry and children are left alone with paint thinner. You get: not sure and some stool sniffer names “lunch box”.

BTW-the reason why I have that avatar is because it’s the stock Yahoo avatar. Any person who leaves their basement more than once a month knows that.