“No Evidence” Giants Would Trade Lincecum Or Cain

Despite their desperate need for offense, SI.com's Jon Heyman says (on Twitter) there's no evidence the Giants would trade either Tim Lincecum or Matt Cain this offseason. One GM went so far as to say there's "no point even asking."

Cain, 27, will earn $15MM in 2012 before becoming a free agent next winter. Lincecum, also 27, is in line for a historic arbitration payday and won't hit free agency until after the 2013 season. The two right-handers have thrown at least 200 innings in each of the past four seasons, and only once did they post an ERA higher than 3.45 (Cain in 2008). In terms of wins over replacement, Lincecum (24.7) and Cain (15.9) have been the 5th and 15th most valuable pitchers in baseball since the start of 2008, respectively.

Earlier this month, both Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and Dave Cameron of FanGraphs explored the possibility of the Giants trading Lincecum for multiple pieces to improve their roster overall.


Leave a Reply

150 Comments on "“No Evidence” Giants Would Trade Lincecum Or Cain"


3 years 8 months ago

Well…there goes my christmas list…

wickedkevin
3 years 8 months ago

Are your two front teeth still on the market?

Kevin McCaul
3 years 8 months ago

Who suggested they were on the market?

stl_cards16
3 years 8 months ago

Jon Heyman

Kevin McCaul
3 years 8 months ago

Ah. Thankfully I unfollowed him on Twitter, so I don’t get to see these asinine comments.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

I think it was Jon Morosi who just speculated.

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

I think it was dave cameron of fangraphs first…

nostocksjustbonds
3 years 8 months ago

Yankee fans’ sense of entitlement. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

right….because all of those articles suggesting a trade were written by Yankee fans…….right…..

Liam Gallagher
3 years 8 months ago

They should really keep these 2 guys next year. Posey is coming back and all they need to do is re-sign Beltran and perhaps another bat on the free agent market. Maybe Rollins or Willingham?

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

If you think the Giants will be good next year, enough so that you should keep lincecum and his 20 million dollars, Then you are nuts. Trade him get prospects save money, etc. Anyways might as well give up next year when we are the NY YANKES of the west…..

andycrisp
3 years 8 months ago

so says a doger…

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

NOt in talent we will not be the Yankees but with money and power

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

consider this next to halladay who is better than Tim? not many. I would easily say he is the second best if not tied with roy for the best pitcher in the NL and a top 10 for sure, argument can be made for top 5 pitcher in all of baseball. I dont know if teams truly have the prospects that it would take to get him. The yakees might be the best match up due to ability to absorb salary and good top prospects(not saying they havea  great farm but they have a number of very good prospects) The B-boy pitchers, montero and nunez could be enough. The Giants get two potential top of the order pitchers, a potential elite bat(play at 1st with belt in left) and a solid SS in case crawford fails and obviously the yankees get a right handed ACE to go along with CC….

here is the problem…do the giants justify trading away their best pitcher in years, face of the franchise, and potential HOF’er and someone they could easily lock up because he clearly likes being there and has never once complained about it(something about tim make me think he and San Fransisco are made for each other…)

and are the yankees would be gives up a ton of potential and I wonder if they could truly take that hit with how old that team is getting….

also what in the world makes you think the dodgers are going to be the yankees of the west? Also by your argument of money the dodgers should trade away kemp because he is going to be expensive…or in 2-3 years they should trade kershaw because he might be too expensive..

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

LA is the secound biggest city market in the USA, The highest populated city in California, California is one of the biggest markets in the world. So why should they trade kemp to save money. San Francisco has 700,000 people, and is not that big of a market. Yes a city like San Francisco can not have a 20 mill pitcher and stay competitive. The dodgers are going to be the new york yankees of the west because they are about to have deep pockets and make they already make close to the most money in baseball when it comes to merchandise etc… thats what i meant

andycrisp
3 years 8 months ago

Your so misinformed its sad…
We won a WS…with Barry Zito…Your assuming your going to get a owner who wants to spend money…Which is exactly what MLB doesn’t want the Dodgers to have b/c they already showed that they can’t be fiscally responsible.

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

Giants fans…..
Misinformed?
“MLB doesn’t want the Dodgers to have b/c they already showed that they can’t be fiscally responsible”~ The Dodgers were not fiscally responsible, it was Frank Mc court and Co.
The point is that how can the giants have both Cain, impending arb or ext., Zito and LIncecum, highest arb case in history impending. That is probaly around 45 M for all three. What i am saying from a baseball fans perspective is that they should trade Lincecum. I dont see how i am misinformed. The dodgers ARE going to get a big pockets owner no matter what. It is inevitable. After all the team is going to be worth 1.2 bill and more if the Tv rights deal is done before. So how is some dofus like Mccourt going to get the team again. Enjoy your championship too. Btw i live in SF and the amount of fair-weather Giants ffans are incredible last year i never saw a giants fan. NOW i cant even turn a corner without seeing black and orange…

55saveslives
3 years 8 months ago

You are making yourself look REAL bad.  You should change your screenname and start over…

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

I’m glad your giving me advice….. why do you feel entitled to do so?

candlestick22
3 years 8 months ago

Maybe because you’re wrong on so many points.

First of all, the population within the city limits of SF is not very meaningful. It’s the size of the entire surrounding metropolitan area / region. It’s the stadium, the attendance, it’s the merchandising, it’s the TV rights. Giants are doing just fine in those areas. The fan base extends far outside the city limits.

Guess what city has a population smaller than SF? Boston, MA. The Red Sox seem to be doing just fine financially. It’s the entire region, not just the city proper.

Giants have been averaging over 3MM per year in attendance for over 10 years. Basicially the fans come out in good times and bad. The fairweather argument just doesn’t work.

Speaking of bad times, what happened when the Dodgers went through a bad time this past year? Bad team, bad ownership, bad publicity from the security situation there? The so-called “fans” stopped going to games in droves. LA defines fairweather. You seem to think that a bigger payroll will solve all of your problems…first of all you don’t even know who the owner will be, and more money doesn’t mean much with bad management.

LA is a big market, but it’s not a good sports market. Except for the Lakers maybe. LA has gone 17 years without having an NFL team!!!! 

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

Candlestick22, giants fan i assume.
. The Dodgers value is currently at 950 M dollars. The giants: 550M. Giants metro area population : 4,274,500. Dodgers: 12,872,800. Revenue dodgers: 246 M Giants: 230 M. The dodgers are a better market by far and this is without a strong fan base. Which sadly will be inevitably revitalized by a new owner. Yes the fans are fair-weather, however most stayed away think that their absence would cause the sale of the Dodgers. IN other words, Dodger fans did not show up in retaliation for their “mistreatment”. My point is with a new owner, whoever it is, will revitalize the franchise for certain. As for Lincecum i think the giants should try to trade him or at least indulge other teams offers, just saying this from a business perspective. Free up money, get rid of a possible disaster contract in Lincecum(not going to get into that; mechanics and possible stats suggest little to no durability 5 years down the road) , sign a huge bat.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Enter Mark Cuban!

johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

” the Dodgers to have b/c they already showed that they can’t be fiscally responsible.”

Must be an LA thing in general.

Darren Gendron
3 years 8 months ago

Yes, because only residents of the city of San Francisco are allowed to cheer for the Giants and purchase Giants-related merchandise and drive into SF for a game…
Or you might realize the Giants’ fanbase is better counted in the millions, as a huge portion of the Sacramento river basin is dedicated Giants country.

ACMilan
3 years 8 months ago

The sad thing is that from the original comment, terrible rebuttals followed.  This is an embarrassing series of events.  Let’s sum this down:

Giants fans and Dodgers fans hate one another
Lincecum is in the 5-10 region of best pitchers in baseball
Cain is not terribly far behind
Los Angeles is bigger than San Francisco

Now why would the Giants trade Lincecum?  Is the net gain he brings going to be better than the two years of production that he gives them?  Is his net gain going to offset the incredible loss of revenue from his departure, including jersey sales, merchandising, and other advertising revenue?  

The real issue is trading Brian Wilson.  

3 years 8 months ago

Why trade Wilson? His value is nothing right now. He’s coming off a injury plagued season that saw him end the year “shut down.” He’s one year away from free agency and the free agent market is flush with relievers. Anyone wanting a closer can go and pay for one without having to give up a prospect in return.

Wilson does not deserve a new contract after the season with so many capable relievers in the Giants pen, but getting rid of him now would be selling when the player’s value is at his lowest.

Keep Wilson for 2012, keep the pitching that is the Giants strength intact and  make another run at the WS.

diesel2410
3 years 8 months ago

You don’t need “evidence” to trade someone…

TaillonColeandBellOhMy
3 years 8 months ago

Maybe the smartest thing Heyman ever said

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

IM sure ned colleti would give up MAtt kemp kershaw sands and gordon. Why not Billingsley as well. Why would he do that? because Ned loves em Giants in any way shape or form.

Harrison
3 years 8 months ago

I believe the giants should sign cain, and vogolson to long term deals, and if and only if lincecum doesnt sign an extension then i would move him. I wouldnt move lincecum unless cain signs a extension. Then I would sign Prince and only if they got prince then i’d move lincecum. By moving tim, u save 15-20mm, where you could spend on either reyes or fielder. By moving tim u could recieve buealos, betallences, montero and maybe nunez from the yanks. By this move, the giants can sign a hitter and still recieve pitching for moving a expensive pitcher.  

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Why Vogelsong to a long term deal? He’s going to be 34 and just came off his best year. That’s not smart to do. By trading Lincecum, you have only two starters that you know what you got. Zito is crap and you don’t know what you have with Vogelsong and then there’s no money to sign a good SP. Pitching goes a long way as was shown in the 2010 playoffs.

Plus the Giants have Belt at 1B and Posey at C. Getting Montero would be nice, but they need power from the corner OF spots more.

Harrison
3 years 8 months ago

i meant sign volgoson to a 1 yr extension. By moving tim, or can sign either prince or reyes, and u still would have a very good rotation.
Moves: Yanks get lincecum for montero, Buealos, Betallences, nunez or ptbnl.
Lineup
C-posey                                                              c-montero
1B-fielder                                                            1B-posey
2B-keppiger                                                          <—same
3b-sandoval                                                         <—-same
SS-?                                                                   SS- reyes
OF-belt                                                                   same
OF-cabrera                                                              same  
OF-huff                                                                   same

SP Cain
SP bumgarner
SP vogolson
SP buealous
SP Betanlices or giants minor leaguer

thats a pretty dominate team right their. they need to move lincecum to  be able to sign a premire hitter who they badly need to compete. idk who there 2B is or anything really about the giants farm system. thats just my idea for the giants.

andycrisp
3 years 8 months ago

Giants could never afford that team…even if they traded Tim and Cain…

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

The rotation takes a huge hit. You know what you have with Cain/Bumgarner, but Vogelsong is a question mark and Zito is will be bad once again. Betances has very little ML experience and Banuelos has none. They won’t put both in the rotation, but are nice prospects nonetheless.

With Montero, he puts a gold glove caliber 1B in Belt and pushes him to the OF where he’s not that great. Posey becomes a non-All Star with him moving to first or using Montero at first (I don’t know how is glove would be there). Keppinger isn’t going to be starting either. Remember, we have Freddy Sanchez. Huff is just horrible in the OF. 

The Giants are not trading Lincecum, but if they do, they need to get ML young players in return, not just prospects. It’s still doubtful that they would go after Reyes or Prince if they ever did trade Lincecum.

Wilsonl
3 years 8 months ago

Vogelsong?

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

vogy is the best bet to be traded mid season if they are out of it..if he can have the same year he did last year it would be a sell high….to be honest im surprised they already havent traded him

NYPOTENCE
3 years 8 months ago

Wouldn’t it make sense to trade for some more offense and go sign Jackson, Buerhle, or Oswalt??? Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Vogelsong could hold the fort down.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

You don’t know what you have from Vogelsong. Going to be 34 and just had his best year. Having Posey, Pablo, Freddy back healthy will help this offense significantly. Not saying they’ll be a power house, but they won’t be at the bottom next year. 

NYPOTENCE
3 years 8 months ago

I know, but Cain could bring in a very solid bat and the Giants could just go after some free agents to attempt to fill Cain’s void.   

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Going after a FA pitcher all depends on what salary the player coming back has because the Giants don’t have much to spend in the budget this offseason. They have money, but they just don’t want to spend it on hitters which is frustrating. 

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

I would imagine if the Giants called the yankees and said Cain for Montero the yankees would probably do that deal…yes i would do a 1 for 1 deal…not if the yankees wanted the giants to kick in some cash then the yankees kick in one of the B-boys….use the money saved from Cain to give Oswalt or jackson maybe even buehrle(could be a good mentor for bummy) the you slot montero at 1st(can split time with posey at catcher) belt moves to left, melky in center beltre or nate in right..

55saveslives
3 years 8 months ago

Why are there so many crack smokers that think Montero is worth Cain??

baybombers
3 years 8 months ago

Cuz all Yankee and AL fans see the NL as their minor league i think or maybe montero is the next mickey mantle in their head? You got me

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

Are you saying right now if sabean called cashman and said ” I’ll give you Cain you
Give me montero” that cashman wouldn’t do it? Could Cain get more yes for sure. I was just saying if the Yankees matched up for Cain and montero it could happen. The Yankees get a true front of the line starter to pair up with cc and the giants get salary relief and a potential
Impact bat at 1st.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Montero for Cain? You’ve got to be kidding…

vonhayesdays
3 years 8 months ago

Braun for cain and then pull the trigger 

3 years 8 months ago

They’re going to lose Fielder and you think they’ll give you Braun?

vonhayesdays
3 years 8 months ago

No, no i don’t,  it was a joke , it really hard to tell who is and who isnt serious on MLBTR

________________________________

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Why would the Brewers, who just made a strong playoff run and will probably lose Fielder, trade Braun, who is under contract at a reasonable cost for the next 4 years @ $36 mil, for Cain who is under contract for just 1 more year? What sense would that make for the Brewers? 

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic.

vonhayesdays
3 years 8 months ago

indeed i was , neither player is being traded

________________________________

3 years 8 months ago

I’m very surprised a Giants fan would make that trade proposal.

55saveslives
3 years 8 months ago

According to Yankee message board, Cain isn’t worth Gardner!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Wow. They’re pretty bright over there…

3 years 8 months ago

T-shirt fans

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Seriously, you’re all a bunch of idiots if you think they are indicative of the way most “real” baseball fans feel. I’m sure if I bothered I could find just as many blithering idiots who suggest an equal amount of dumb trade scenarios that by far favor the Giants.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Calm down their chief. No need to get all upset. Sure there are idiots, but actual fans with baseball knowledge know neither of those ideas would work.

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

Dude it’s the internet, it’s a forum on the Internet for baseball a sport in which non of us have any control. Making these random trades and seeing what other think about is part if the fun. Again all in fun it’s literally impossible for anyone on here to be serious because we all have literally no power and no say in anything.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Finally, we can put to rest what never was going to happen. People just assumed by seeing Lincecum or Cain in trade rumors that he was available, instead of reading that it was pure speculation. “GMs” came up with trade ideas that they thought would work. Thank God it’s over. 

NYBravosFan10
3 years 8 months ago

Why on earth would they? Trade Zito to the astros or some other team dumb enough to take him.

sourbob
3 years 8 months ago

Literally not one GM in the game is dumb enough to trade for Zito. Not unless $45MM+ came with him. Not one. Well… maybe Tony Re… uh, not one.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

If it were that simple Zito would be wearing a cowboy hat years ago. It’s so hard to believe that he is still owed anywhere from $46 to $57 mil left on his deal.

NYBravosFan10
3 years 8 months ago

all jokes aside it’s not like you can blame the Giants for the deal. Zito was an animal with Oakland.

Yankees420
3 years 8 months ago

I disagree, Zito’s ERAs the 3 years prior to the deal were 4.48, 3.86, 3.83 with K/9 rates of 6.89, 6.74, 6.15.  The more advanced stats say he was even worse, his FIP- during those years were 100, 103, 110 (100 is average), and his GB/FB ratios were .84, 1.04, .84.  Nothing about those numbers say it was justifiable to give him 18MM per year.  

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Well said. His decline was so evident that the Yanks were never even interested in making an offer, whether it was because of his numbers on the field or the numbers Boras’ was throwing out there, they wanted no part of him.

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

So wait. Because the Yankees didn’t offer him a contract it means he would be bad? Does that mean because the Yankees have yet to offer Albert and prince contracts they are going to decline and be bad?

Yankees420
3 years 8 months ago

Really? He is most likely talking about the Yankees perspective because he’s a Yankees fan, and thus can remember more details about their interest in Zito.  There’s really no reason to take a sarcastic tone, YF78 didn’t come off as pretentious at all.

Yankees420
3 years 8 months ago

Really? He is most likely talking about the Yankees perspective because he’s a Yankees fan, and thus can remember more details about their interest in Zito.  There’s really no reason to take a sarcastic tone, YF78 didn’t come off as pretentious at all.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

An “animal”? Really? I know advance metrics are a relatively new thing that’s become more relied upon over the last 4 years but his numbers like ERA pretty much told the story even back then.

Yankees420 pretty much summed things up accurately.

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

So, how much do the Giants have to spend on the big league team budget this offseason? Just wondering.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Payroll will be just about the same as last year, $125M. They won’t have much to sign a big hitter. The only guy they’ll go after is probably Beltran, but they won’t sign anyone else of significance. 

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

So, is most of that $125M already tied up in contracts? That’s what I’m getting from what you’re saying.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Ya. They have $79.25M in guaranteed contracts ($41M in Zito, Rowand, Huff alone). They have a lot of arbitration cases (about 10). Lincecum probably getting $17-$20M. I don’t know exactly how much they’ll have to spend, but it won’t be much to reel in a big hitter.

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

Ouch. $41M in Zito, Rowand and Huff. 

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Ya, at least Huff ($2M buyout) and Rowand are off the books next year. For us Giants fans we still have Zito to look forward to in 2013 at $20M and then a $7M buyout the next year.

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

Rowand and Zito. The contracts that never end. Kinda like Soriano and Zambrano. Please God, make it stop!

3 years 8 months ago

There’s “no evidence” of God either, but people still believe that.

LINCECUM TO THE YANKEES FOR JESUS MONTERO, JOBA CHAMBERLAIN, SUM DUM GAI, NON PROSPECT, AND A MARK TEIXEIRA BOBBLEHEAD DOLL!  GET IT DONE!!!111!!!

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Good joke.

Nick Novak
3 years 8 months ago

yeah, even if the Giants WANTED to trade away lincecum, i doubt anyone would be able to offer enough talent.  I mean, look at what the return for matt garza was.

3 years 8 months ago

Not getting in an argument here, but Garza wasn’t going to get paid 20mill for the next two season either.

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

garza didnt win back to back cy youngs though..

3 years 8 months ago

True, but he was still a very solid pitcher in the toughest division in baseball.

to jwsox

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

Again though back to back cys a world series ring. Much better
Over all pitching stats and the al east is only tough
Because the Yankees and bosox. The nl west is a good
Offensive division also

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

And to think people were crappin’ all over that trade.

3 years 8 months ago

Lincecum and Zito to the Yankees for anything.

Dodgersarelife
3 years 8 months ago

Russel martin?

3 years 8 months ago

I really think it make sense for them to trade one of them. Their rotation would still be great if the lost one and it would free up money for an offensive star. Not to mention the prospects they would get back. I don’t know other teams prospects as well as I do the yankees, so for sake of argument I’ll use them.
IF the yankees offered Montero, Nunez, Phelps/warren/noesi and Banuelos, it would really set up the Giants. They would have 20 million more for Reyes, and also would have a great hitting first baseman. This would move Belt into the OF, another one of their problems. Then in the next coming seasons, Banuelos could turn into another FOR arm.

jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

that exact package is where is Start for tim..but Montero, Banuelos/ bentences  and nunez could easily get cain

3 years 8 months ago

Definitely disagree, with 2 years and likely 40million left on his deal, his value would be greatly affected. If he was in his first few years, or even “only” making 10 million per, he would get more then what I said. But for 20 million/year, the giants would be fortunate to get that package.

WillieMaysField
3 years 8 months ago

Why would money make any difference to the yanks. Before the sanchez trade I was thinking lincecum and huff for Gardner, hughes, and swisher. Giants use the money to sign Reyes.

SS reyes
Cf Gardner
C posey
3B panda
LF swisher
1b belt
RF Nate s
2b f Sanchez

3 years 8 months ago

It wouldn’t to the yankees, that’s why they’d be interested. But to a small market team, giving up all their top prospects and paying 20/year wouldn’t be worth it.

northsfbay
3 years 8 months ago

Yankee and Red Sox fans can dream all they want about trading for Lincecum and Cain. Lincecum and Cain, not for trade!!!!!

3 years 8 months ago

Lincecum for Joey Votto…who hangs up first?

3 years 8 months ago

or the doppleganger to that offer…Drew Stubbs, Yonder Alonso, Daniel Corcino for Lincecum?

3 years 8 months ago

I think the Giants would hang up before you could finish Joe…………beep beep beep beep beep…….

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 8 months ago

Reds would be losing the better player and more money, but if they value a SP more than a 1B, they might do it. The Giants might not want a 1B, they have Belt.

Perry Croft
3 years 8 months ago

No one within the Giants has given even the remotest hint that either Cain or Lincecum is on the trade block. Any writer who has made this assertion is floating speculation in order to keep their own name in the press. This might be the biggest nonstory of the hot stove season. This is the result of blog based journalism.

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Couldn’t have said it better. 

bobbybaseball
3 years 8 months ago

If there is no evidence, how did this rumor get published in the first place?

55saveslives
3 years 8 months ago

It was just Morosi saying they should…Giants never said Sht

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

There was no rumor. It was only speculation from Jon Morosi. People just assume that since it’s on this site, it must be a rumor.

bjsguess
3 years 8 months ago

Trading Cain is not just about losing his 4.0 WAR that can pencil in for him. It’s about getting a lot of talent in return PLUS freeing up $15m to spend on a big bat.

Would Giants fans really rather have Cain for 2012 vs Fielder (as an example) + young arms that come back from the Cain trade? That’s just crazy to me. The Giants need offense in a big way. Taking the money from Cain and putting it towards a guy like Fielder makes a ton of sense. Throw in the prospects you get back from Cain and it seems like a slam dunk to me.

andycrisp
3 years 8 months ago

Real Giants fans hate Fielder…also Sabean has come out with his utter hatred for him aswell….and 15mil wouldn’t free up for the type of bat that would make it worth it.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Why would Giants fans, or Sabean for that matter, hate Fielder? Would also seem like a rather dumb move for a GM to let personal feelings stand in the way of improving his team.

andycrisp
3 years 8 months ago

Dumb probably…but totally what happen…I’ve been looking for his comments about the incident back in the day…but I cant find it anymore…But ya he basically rip’d into him. There is no love loss

SFrush90
3 years 8 months ago

Sabean’s top priority is locking up the pitchers. Pitching goes a long way. This past season their offense was horrendous. But also remember they had Posey, Freddy, and Pablo out for a significant amount of time. With the 3 of them coming back healthy the offense will be different. Melky could help us as well if he mimics his stats from last season. Not saying it’ll be a machine, but they won’t be at the bottom.