Reds Acquire Sean Marshall For Travis Wood, Others

The Reds have already improved their starting rotation with the addition of Mat Latos this offseason, and now they've bolstered the bullpen. In a rare intra-division trade, Cincinnati has acquired lefty reliever Sean Marshall from the Cubs for Travis WoodDave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes. Both teams have announced the trade.

Icon_12006098Marshall, 29, has established himself as one of the game's top left-handed relievers. He posted a 2.26 ERA with 9.4 K/9, 2.0 BB/9 and a 57.5% ground ball rate in 2011. He'll earn $3.1MM during the 2012 season, after which he's eligible for free agency. The Reds have been looking for a closer, but it's not clear how they'll use Marshall and how his presence will affect Cincinnati's interest in relievers such as Francisco Cordero.

Wood is a 24-year-old left-hander who's under team control through 2016. He posted a 4.84 ERA with 6.5 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9 with a 32.1% ground ball rate in 106 innings for the Reds this past season. Though he added value in '11, he didn't match his 2010 numbers: a 3.51 ERA with 7.5 K/9 and 2.3 BB/9 in 102 2/3 innings.

Sappelt, a 24-year-old outfielder, hit .243/.289/.318 in 118 plate appearances for Cincinnati last year, his big league debut. He produced a .313/.377/.458 batting line in 336 plate appearances for their Triple-A affiliate in 2011. Torreyes, a 19-year-old infielder, posted a .356/.398/.457 batting line in 306 plate appearances at the Low Class-A level this past season. Baseball America ranked Sappelt and Torreyes as the Reds'20th and 22nd best prospects in last year's Prospect Handbook, respectively.

Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago broke the news of the trade agreement while ESPN's Keith Law later added details (on Twitter). Photo courtesy of Icon SMI.

Mike Axisa contributed to this post.


363 Responses to Reds Acquire Sean Marshall For Travis Wood, Others Leave a Reply

  1. WrigleyTerror37 4 years ago

    NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :(

    • Alex 4 years ago

      What are you so bent out of shape about? One year of a reliever for 5+ years of a cost-controlled young starter who’s going to be mid-rotation for the Cubs, AND two minor leaguers? Need I remind you that the Cubs currently have approximately one and a half serviceable starters in Garza and Dempster? You should be beating down Theo’s door to get this done.

      • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

        “mid-rotation for the Cubs” is accurate.  He’d be a 4 or 5 for a better staff.

        • Alex 4 years ago

          Indeed. I made sure to include the “for the Cubs” qualifier.

          • cubs223425 4 years ago

            And that’s why some of us aren’t all that excited. That 2 prospects are in it makes it better, but Wood alone has shown inconsistency and lack of potential. He’s a back-end starter on a good team, meaning if the Cubs become competitive, he’s not really going to be part of the reason why.

          • onetricpony 4 years ago

            so Marshall will be? considering he is gone after this year?

          • cubs223425 4 years ago

            You’re right, I forgot…it’s illegal to resign players, and teams never get player compensation for good FAs.

          • coltholt 4 years ago

             Under the new CBA, reds would have to offer Marshall a 1 year, 12 Million dollar contract to get picks. #Notachance

          • Of course, the Cubs could still resign him next offseason if they need him.

          • Jay King 4 years ago

             Wonder if there might be an extension offered this winter for Marshall.  If he is making a little over 3 million this coming season how about a 3 year deal for….
             
            year 1  – 3.8 million
            year 2  –  4.8 million
            year 3  –   5.4 or up to 5.8 million.

            Unless he becomes our closer then the money would have to hike up about 2 to 3 million each year.

        • strikethree 4 years ago

          They can always convert him like they did with Marshall.

          Then trade for even more prospects. Rinse and repeat.

          It’s amazing how much better a starter can be when turned into a reliever. Marshall went from mediocre starter to lights out setup man. This is exactly why teams should never pay big money to relievers. Although the transformation doesn’t hold true for everyone, we’ve seen more success with starters turning into good relievers than vice-versa. 

      • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

        i think most cubs fans would prefer fewer years of a starter with more upside. the cubs aren’t short on cash, they’re short on impact talent. back-end starters are not scarce

        it’ll be interesting to see who the minor leaguers are

        • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

          Mesoraco and Hamilton

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            soriano must be going to the reds then huh. solid deal

          • Joe 4 years ago

            hahaha, i legit just laughed out loud

          • No way its Mesoraco. Ramon Hernandez gone, traded Grandal (who isnt ML ready anyway). Hannigan and Mesoraco are the 2 catchers they will carry on the 25 man all season. (Barring injury).

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            I was totally joking, its neither of those 2 for sure

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            I was waiting for the explosion from Cincinatti from your post.  I’m somewhat disappointed so far…

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            me too

          • goooob 4 years ago

            Cinncinattttti fans hopefully understand sarcasm.

          • Andrew Stelter 4 years ago

            Actually it’s spelled Cincinattttttttttttttttttttttti

          • I find it interesting that you just said no way to Mesoraco. Did you think Hamilton made sense?

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            Sure.  He can backup Castro for the next five years.  Makes sense for both sides – The Reds waste their future SS for one year of a reliever (no matter how good), and the Cubs waste Hamilton’s future career.

          • bobskube 4 years ago

            When the Cubs gave him away or when the Reds gave him away?

          • Joe 4 years ago

            Talking about Billy Hamilton

          • bobskube 4 years ago

            Yeah I figured that out too late.  I tried to delete.

          • Jay King 4 years ago

            Keep Dreaming. 

        • jb226 4 years ago

          I’m reserving judgment until we hear who the minor leaguers are, but that is exactly how I feel about it.  Marshall is one of the Cubs’ best trade chips; if all they really get is a back-end starter I consider that a major failure, and I really couldn’t care less how many years the guy is under control.

      • WrigleyTerror37 4 years ago

        as a overall this is a good deal pending the other 2 players. but as a fan I hate to see sean go. he was one of the few i trusted when lou/quade went to the pen. i just wish i could get his autograph before he goes. hes one of my favorite players. 

      • jb226 4 years ago

        I don’t understand why so many people keep saying things like “mid-rotation [starter] for the Cubs.”  Is it just to take a shot at the Cubs, or do you really think that how good he is relative to the team he’s going to matters?

        I mean if the Cubs get Travis Wood and trade Garza to somebody else, should we be ecstatic that we acquired a #2/borderline #1 pitcher?  

        It doesn’t matter where he slots into the rotation for the receiving team (Cubs) — what matters is his talent level and whether or not that talent level is a fair return for who he is traded for.  His talent level is probably most realistically a #5.  That the Cubs’ rotation sucks as bad as it does isn’t relevant to whether or not the trade ends up being good or bad — that’s going to depend strongly on who the minor leaguers are.

        • onetricpony 4 years ago

          for a one year rental?  what do you think Latos should be included?

      • meinhardt1992 4 years ago

        dont forget you never know what you will get from zambrano

  2. CubsFanTillTheDeathOfMe 4 years ago

    These prospects better be worth it or else this deal is not a smart one

    • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

      Two mid level prospects is about all you can expect.  Trade value of relievers just isn’t all that good.

      I’m interested to see the names, however.

    • You Cubs fans are delusional.  Marshall has one year left till FA.  Did you think the Cubs would compete this year? You got a young, affordable lefty starter for a number of seasons and the Reds got an one year rental on the most overrated lefty reliever in baseball.

      • Jay King 4 years ago

        That’s a big delusional comment.  He is not the most overrated lefty reliever in baseball?   Where do people get this crap.

  3. JenInChicago 4 years ago

    Ridiculous. Sean was arguably the best pitcher on the team and the only one, seemingly, able to get the Cubs out of a jam.  To the Reds, no less!!!!

  4. These better be some damn good minor leaguers! 

  5. Triple Hawpes Brewed 4 years ago

    Not a bad deal for both sides

  6. phee17 4 years ago

    hoping for billy hamilton as one of the prospects. but that’s just me lol

    • nelly33 4 years ago

      Billy Hamilton is untouchable

      • phee17 4 years ago

        i’m very aware of that but i’ve heard that about prospects before, but you never know.
        just some wishful thinking is all

        • BlockedProspect 4 years ago

          Hamilton isn’t untouchable at all. But the Reds wouldn’t trade him straight up for Marshall, let alone as a secondary piece.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            If the padres couldnt get him for Latos, he isn’t going for a reliever

          • BlockedProspect 4 years ago

            Pads wanted the guys they got, not Hamilton. Reds would’ve done a week of celebratory summersaults if they could’ve included Hamilton instead of Grandal for Latos. Hamilton is 21, hasn’t made it out of High-A ball, & posted a .700 OPS last year. I don’t care how fast he is, that’s a less valuable commodity than a catcher who posted an .835 OPS at Double-A.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            on most red prospect lists, Hamilton is rated ahead of both Grandal and Alonso.

            there must be more to his skill set and tools that havent showed up on his stat sheet yet..

            plus grandal and alonso were both blocked. a SS is far more valuable to the reds

          • BlockedProspect 4 years ago

            I understand what you’re saying, absolutely, it’s perfectly sensible. But I still disagree in 2 ways. First, lots of teams have Hamilton further down their lists than Grandal. I’ve specifically heard several talent evaluators question Hamilton’s ability to hit at all. Second, Grandal/Alonso were definitely blocked, & I have no doubt the team would’ve much rather traded Alonso than Hamilton. But not so on Grandal. Remember: prospects have 2 forms of value–1) to the team in the future; 2) as a trade chip. Grandal was a much more valuable trade chip because catcher is every bit as scarce across the league as SS, & Grandal is at least projected as good defensively as Hamilton & absolutely a better all-around offensive player. The Reds knew this, & preferred dealing Hamilton.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            fair enough

          • Rozz513 4 years ago

            Hamilton had trouble in the first half of the season last year because they were trying to turn him into a switch hitter. He had a much more respectable second half.

          • onetricpony 4 years ago

            agreed the pad’s are set at ss for the future lol

          • Yeah he is untouchable he has been left out of trade talks since last season. Hamilton, Mesoraco and Chapman was all listed as untouchable at the deadline last season. You can bet that SD wanted him but was told no.

          • BlockedProspect 4 years ago

            Reds like his upside for sure, but they didn’t trade ANY prospects last season. And Padres wanted the guys they got. How that suggests Hamilton is “untouchable” is beyond me. If those are the only 2 criteria, then literally every Reds minor leaguer other than Grandal/Alonso/Boxberger are “untouchable.”

          • MacKenzie Pantoja 4 years ago

            I’m a Reds fan. Trust me, Hamilton is untouchable.

          • BlockedProspect 4 years ago

            Haha, lots of us are Reds fans, my young friend. The longer you root for a team, & the more you grow up, the more you’ll realize that doesn’t give you any kind of special insight whatsoever into how that team conducts business.

          • Jay King 4 years ago

            Reds Fan.. Hamilton is not in this deal…

          • jwsox 4 years ago

            He is untouchable because he is 21 never made it out of high A and can’t hit. I wod guess untradeable not untouchable.

      • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

        ummm for a relief pitcher he is. let’s not get carried away.

  7. dhgshth 4 years ago

    cubs are trading the wrong players

    • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

      Because they’ll get better prospects by trading their garbage?

      If you want to get value in return, you need to trade value.

      • Tko11 4 years ago

        Sean Marshall is garbage? Care to explain how? 

        • vtadave 4 years ago

          Please re-read the two posts.

        • EightMileCats 4 years ago

          He’s saying you won’t get anything if you trade trash.  Trading Marshall(not trash) is going to get you farther in the rebuilding process than trading say…  Soriano(due to his bad contract).

  8. Jay McCollum 4 years ago

    anybody that is not a Reds top 10 makes this deal somewhat swallowable (new word) nothing like sending away talent to rent a player!…hopefully the Reds get a window to extend him…

    • bobskube 4 years ago

      They have a one year window by virtue of the fact that he’s signed.

  9. Rynocerous 4 years ago

    Not sure how this is a bad deal for the Cubs. They aren’t going to be contending for awhile, and Marshall provides little value for them as a reliever. Though he’s great at what he does, he couldn’t cut it as a starter and he’s better suited to help a bullpen on a contending team. Wood’s peripherals were pretty good last year and he has the chance to turn into a serviceable back-end starter. The prospects are just a chance to strike gold, whomever they are. Seems like a win-win to me.

    • bobskube 4 years ago

      Because you received the inferior player.

      • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

        True.  You could always hold on to Marshall for the whole year, not compete, and then get NOTHING for him.  That would be alot smarter.

        Unless there was a better trade offer out there, this is a good move for the Cubs.

        • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

          the deadline for a trade is not today. it’s hard to believe another club wouldn’t have given up a prospect with a higher ceiling than wood

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            -=A=- prospect, yes.  Three, no.

            Look at the deal for Santos.  He has several years remaining under contract, and spent most of the season as a closer.

            Marshall isn’t going to net much more than that in a trade.

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            the years of control help, but santos does not compare well to marshall by any measure. marshall is one of the best relievers in baseball

            why are you mentioning three prospects? that’s not what’s being traded here. wood has never even really been a prospect and is a back-end starter at present. not having been named yet, it seems unlikely the two minor leaguers to come will be meaningful prospects

            getting “-=A=-” high-ceiling SP prospect would likely be better than getting wood + wildcards

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            Without team control, I doubt the high cieling guy is a starter.  Relievers, no matter how good, just aren’t that valuable.

            Only difference is a closer, since some teams value saves enough to trade better talent.  Marshall hasn’t closed yet, so his value is low.

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            those are just conclusions

            2/3 of the mike adams haul (for 2/3 of the control) would be a top 50ish SP prospect

          • Hawkguy 4 years ago

            Or maybe this is the best offer they got, given that they still need to make trades IMO for Byrd, Soto, Garza and maybe even Wells. We still don’t know the prospects, though.

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            i think this is obviously the best offer they’ve received so far, but time has not run out. they shouldn’t be in any hurry to pull the trigger unless they get a steal

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            I doubt a better offer would have come along until the season started.  Once the season starts, Marshall could regress or get injured.  Relief pitchers are never a guarantee.

            Its a question of taking the deal now, or gambling on success later.

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            it’s a question of scarcity. travis wood’s production isn’t a hard thing for a team with money to acquire

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            If Marshall gets hurt, or doesn’t pitch well (relievers are unpredictable – even the best can suddenly pitch poorly), the Cubs are unable to trade him, and get nothing at all.  Even a poor return would be better than no return, and Wood (sadly) makes the Cubs rotation better this year, so it is already a positive trade.

          • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

            and the (very good) chance to acquire a good return is worth more than the poor return when the poor return is an eminently replaceable back-end starter and a pair of nobodies

            wood’s cheapness means little to a large market club. they need impact talent

          • Thomas W 4 years ago

            It means more to a big market team hamstrung by bad contracts

      • dbreer23 4 years ago

        You say this without knowing who the prospects are – if we get Soto back as one of the prospects, I’ll be happy enough with that.

        • Jay King 4 years ago

          OMFG….. Soto are you nuts..  Forget any top 10 prospect since you got Travis Wood in this deal.

    • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

      They probably could have got more for Marshall.

      • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

        A major league starting pitcher under club control, and two minor leaguers for ONE relief pitcher who isn’t even a closer?

        Are you even a baseball fan?

        Could they have gotten more?  Maybe at the trade deadline.  There’s too many relievers available right now to get a huge return.  Look at the return for Santos, who spent most of the year as the closer, and comes with 5 years of team control instead of being a free agent after this season.  Expecting to get too much for Marshall is a pipe dream.

        • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

          blah blah blah…

          Wood has a very low ceiling, cubs could have gotten someone with more upside, possibly a minor leaguer for marshall..

          perhaps one of the 2 prospects has a high ceiling. So this could all be moot, guess we’ll discuss when the prospect names are released

          • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

            I think they could get something similar to the White Sox return for Santos – 1 minor leaguer, high upside, not major league ready.  Theo obviously chose quantity over quality. Given the state of the Cubs farm system, I can’t blame him.

            This deal is fair.

    • $19253129 4 years ago

      It is not a bad deal at all, but most Cubs fans LOVE and over value their fringe players.

      • Hrubes20 4 years ago

        One of, if not THE best LH reliever in all of baseball the past 2 years is a fringe player?

        • dbreer23 4 years ago

          On a team that won’t win 80 games, either with or without him, you deal him for what you can get.  He’s a FA after 2012, and he won’t re-up with Chicago, so a MOR SP and a couple of prospects is better than nothing.

          • vtadave 4 years ago

            Does he hate Chicago?  Why wouldn’t he return if he received a competitive offer?

          • dbreer23 4 years ago

            He may love the North Side, I dunno.  But I’m betting he’ll get much more $ on the open market than the new regime will give to a RP.

          • Hrubes20 4 years ago

            Oh, I completely agree.  I like the deal for Chicago and think they were wise to deal him now.  I’m just miffed at how Marshall is a “fringe player”.  He’s dominant.

          • jb226 4 years ago

            That’s exactly the point though: You deal him for the BEST you can get.  Is this the best?  Marshall-for-Wood is absolutely not.  Beyond that we’ll see when the prospects get announced.

            Besides which, years of control or not, backend starters are a dime a dozen and there are a bunch available any given year for a small amount of money.  I would much rather the Cubs shoot for upside guys, which is what these prospects had better be for this to be a respectable deal.

        • $19253129 4 years ago

          Yes, a player with 1 year left so trade him and get something or lose him for nothing.  Relievers a fringe players on a bad team.

          • Hrubes20 4 years ago

            You and I have vastly different definitions of “fringe players”.  A fringe player to me is a guy who can barely crack a 25 man roster.  Marshall would crack every 25 man roster in the game.

          • nictonjr 4 years ago

             So are 5th starters.  The Cubs can lose games with Casey Coleman starting as easy as they can lose games with Travis Wood starting…

          • Jay King 4 years ago

            After watching Wood thought the past few seasons.. I get the feeling you would win more with Travis as your number 5 than you would with your current starters.

  10. CC 4 years ago

    Marshall only allowed 1 hr last year. 1!

  11. So the Reds are emptying out the farm for Latos and Marshal and ship Wood out of town? OK… Theo is already killing the Reds and they havnt even played a game yet…

    • vtadave 4 years ago

      How is Theo “killing the Reds” by trading a very very good LH reliever for a fringy starter?

      Latos
      Cueto
      Leake
      Bailey
      Arroyo

      • bobskube 4 years ago

        I’ve been pretty unimpressed by every move the great Theo’s made so far personally.  DeJesus is ok I guess.

      • Jay King 4 years ago

        Don’t forget about Chapman as #5 for this season too. I don’t know what is going to happen here.. Bailey to the bullpen.  I thought he had trouble working back to back in the past. I highly doubt Arroyo goes to the pen. Though Rubber arm Arroyo could probably handle it better.  Seems like a huge waste of money though for a bullpen spot if Arroyo would go there.

  12. Jordan King 4 years ago

    I like the trade, but I’m dreading hearing who the prospects are. Really hoping we didn’t give up Corcino.

    • Hrubes20 4 years ago

      That’s the one name I hope to hear.  Very doubtful, though.

  13. Cub fans: Marshall is 30 years old. He will be a free agent after this season. If I were a 30 year old reliever I would not want to wait around for the Cubs to rebuild. Wood is 26 and has three more years of arbitration. He was good his rookie year and struggled last year. He will probably get better. The more prospects you have, mid-level or otherwise, the better chance you have. This is not a bad move.

    • Ben Zetlitz 4 years ago

      Adam, Wood is 24 not 26 and he has FIVE more years of arbitration. This deal is an easy win for the Cubs.

    • Guest 4 years ago

      Actually you are wrong, Marshall and his wife love chicago and the fans, and were a huge part of the community. I would honestly not be surprised if he pitches for Cinci this year and resigns with the Cubs next offseason. Correction, didnt realize they were divorced.

  14. Nickistoles 4 years ago

    I can’t imagine the two prospects being anything great. Wood is a good pitcher, maybe had a little bit of trouble pitching at GABP. But he really is one of those players who could shine as a Cub 

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      Cause you know Wrigley field is so much bigger a stadium.. Lol…

  15. You are in rebuild mode.  Marshall isn’t going to make the Cubs contendors.  I really hope the 2 minor leaguers or Jordan Smith and Kris Negron, otherwise the Reds got bent over in this trade.  Marshall is great, dont get me wrong Cub fans, but the FA market is flooded with RP’s (Gonzalez, MacDougal, Ayala, Zumaya, Rodney, etc, etc).  Wood had a down year last year, but has great command and holds a lot of potential.  It seems odd to let loose of 2 prospects and a starting pitcher with 5 years left on his contract and getting paid the league minimum until 2014.

    • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

      Wood became expendable with the trade for Latos, and the two prospects thrown in ensures the deal gets done.  Without the two prospects, Cubs may wait until the trade deadline to see if they can get a bigger haul.

      • Chapman was shut down this winter with a tired arm.  There’s no way to tell he’s ready to start yet.  I’d rather not rush him or Corcino (heaven forbid he’s included in the deal) to take over for someone injured.  Reds 40 man is not full, and easily couldve kept these guys and signed someone for the similar price in FA.  I guess we’ll have to see who these minor leaguers are.  It better not be Gregorious, Hamilton, Frazier, Duran, Phipps, or Corcino.

        • Jay King 4 years ago

          Don’t remember the reason but that is not why he was shut down…

    • bobskube 4 years ago

      Marshall is significantly better than that cavalcade of stiffs you just listed.

      • Chicken Quesa doubt it man..some of these guys will be studs.

      • Cubs will be so pleased with Wood alone, they will soon forget about Sean Marshall.

        • bobskube 4 years ago

          That’s where we disagree.

        • Jay King 4 years ago

          I see Wood as most likely turning into a #4 guy 5 at worst and maybe if he can pitch like he did consistently like he did in 2010. maybe a #3 starter.

          Cubs fan quit crying. Travis is not as bad as your making him out to be.

  16. Gunner65 4 years ago

    Cubs will probably get a pick list of low level prospects to chose from. I’d be shocked if it was anyone of note

  17. garylanglais 4 years ago

    This is all Theo trying to obtain some value for a RP who will be gone after this year. Sorry Cubs fans, but I dont see the prospects being anything but marginal at best.  This is all about getting an SP with many years of  cheap, team control in exchange for a very good LH RP who is gone after the year.  While I like Marshall more then Wood it does make sense for the Cubs if you look at the larger picture. 

  18. Hawkeye250 4 years ago

    Maybe the Cubs can give the Red Sox one of those minor leaguers for our damn compensation already

  19. slider32 4 years ago

    Good trade for both teams, it shows the direction these teams are going.

  20. Doug_Not_Dascenzo 4 years ago

    Could the they Flip T. Wood and another peice to padres for Rizzo? just a thought. he seems like a fit with the Padres young controlable fly ball pitcher. 

    • Joshua Edwards 4 years ago

      As a Cubs fan, I’ve watched Old Man Jocketty put together winners for Cubs rivals for too long. 

      So in the interest of throwing scenarios out there:

      Don’t rule out Alonso. Reds wouldn’t trade him to division rival Cubs, but we might have seen the first two movements in a three-part trade. 

      T. Wood to Padres for Alonso makes more sense than Garza and his salary to San Diego. 

      Wood replaces Latos, and the Padres keep Rizzo–a guy they liked all along but told Old Man Jocketty they were moving to Chicago if they could replace him with Yonder.

      Hoyer & Co. get the guy they wanted–their division rival’s 1b prospect. They essentially traded a lefty reliever for him and netted two prospects to boot.

      Most importantly, I would love to see Hoyer, Epstein and Byrnes take Walt for a ride. 

  21. garylanglais 4 years ago

    The New CBA provisions on Type A FA’s DEFINITELY forced Theo’s hand here…

    Marshall would in all likelihood have been a Type A FA after this year under the old CBA.  Thus, the Cubs could have just sat on him here, dangled him in July and if they didnt like the offers, take the picks next offseason when he signed elsewhere.  Now, in order to obtain those picks they would have needed to pay him top dollar which they obviously would be unwilling to do.  This change means the Cubs needed to either move him now or hope a contending team would need a set up man in July (a la, Mike Adams to TEX).  Theo weighed the risks and felt this was as good a deal as he was going to get.

    • bobskube 4 years ago

      His arb# next year (if he accepts) will be $4mm-$5mm.  Not exactly top dollar.

      He makes $3.1mm this year.

      • garylanglais 4 years ago

        This year is his last year of Arb eligiblity.  He is in the 2nd year of a 2 year deal and that is the source of his $3.1m salary.  He is a FA after this season and under the old CBA would warrant Type A status. Under the new CBA, he earns Type A if he spends the entire year on the same team and that team offers him a deal equivalent with the other highest paid players at his position.

        Point is…under the new CBA the Cubs were not afforded the option of keeping Marshall all year, offering him arbitration at the end of the year (him declining), him signing elsewhere and the Cubs collecting two draft picks.  Theo’s options were trade him now or hope a contending team needed a RP at the July deadline.  He obviously felt Wood was better then the player(s) they would get at the July deadline

        • bobskube 4 years ago

          OK.  I appreciate it.  I do need to read the CBA.

          • garylanglais 4 years ago

            It hasnt gone public yet but the Type A/B status issue was one of the changes that did go public.  

          • bobskube 4 years ago

            My misunderstanding of the process changes my opinion, but only slightly.  I think they could’ve done better at 7/31, but maybe not.  I think Wood is a stiff, so that colors my judgement of the deal as a whole.

          • garylanglais 4 years ago

            Yup and that’s all I was really trying to get at. Sounds like Theo made the decision that Marshall was going. So it was either this package or wait til July.

            Mike Adams got the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland. Both good prospects but young, low level prospects (neither have gotten over AA). So you weigh your risks and Theo obviously felt this was the best he was gonna do.  Doesn’t mean you can’t disagree from that perspective though.

          • Joshua Edwards 4 years ago

            The gamble is this: is Marshall’s value going to be higher now or at the trade deadline?

            He pitched so well last year, hard to see him repeating those numbers. And the Cubs are likely to be bad–another reason he can’t do it again, stat-wise. 

            Would a contending team give up a starter and 2 prospects for him at the deadline? 

            Marshall would have to out-pitch last year’s version of himself to do that. And even if he does, it’s unlikely he brings that return as a 3-month rental before free agency.

            If signing Marshall was not in the cards–and why would the Cubs pay top dollar for him now?–they needed to move him sooner rather than later. His value wasn’t getting any higher.

            And they still haven’t lost the opportunity to sign him next year. 

            But they gained a starter and two prospects in the meantime.

            Crazy, awesome, ridiculous scenario that won’t happen: Cubs trade for Marshall at the deadline and sign him to an extension because they’ve contenders in 2012. HA HA HA HA HA 

  22. 5_tool_MiLB_fool 4 years ago

    honestly cubs fans, why so mad? a reliever like marshal is utterly useless if you’re not a contender, and its not like relievers have consistent results for multiple seasons in a row to say, when you do become a contender. wood has tons of potential and starting pitching is a need for you guys. 

    I’ll go ahead and say both sides win.

    • I agree, win for both sides IMO as well. Cubs get somene in Wood who may or may not breakout, and the Reds get a dominant piece in their pen and possibly their closer. I don’t get why Reds fans are so upset by this. Lecure can and prob will replace Wood as the long man/6th starter on the Reds, and I like Lecure better .

    • bobskube 4 years ago

      Funny you say that because Marshall has been very consistent since he became a reliever.  For multiple seasons in a row (2 1/2, not a ton I admit).

  23. Wood is a 5th starter/long reliver at best IMO. The minor leaguers won’t be anyone of value. This now gives the Reds a pretty good bullpen. To close out games now, Cincy now has Chapman, Bray, Marshall, and Masset. While Masset struggles, that’s still a damn good pen to help get it to the closer.

  24. This is a fantastic return for Marshall.  He’s a free agent next year and he is a reliever.   He’s a really good reliever, but he’s still a reliever.  Cubs could gotten more?  You expect some high end, superstar prospect for one year of a reliever? Lol.  They got at least one major leaguer in this deal, one who is extremely cost effective and can contribute (he performed better than Marshall his first few years, btw) and two other players we don’t know yet.  This is a good haul and Epstein/Hoyer continue to run a very smart, low key offseason for the Cubs.  Much needed change of pace from the Hendry days of franchise sabotage.

  25. $19253129 4 years ago

    Cub fans, no reason to get your panties in a bunch unitl we hear who are the 2 prospects.  There is a good chance Wood could become what Marshall is now, a shut down reliever plus 2 more warm bodies the minors.

  26. rossington 4 years ago

    Love this trade! I’m sad to see Marshall go but at least he can go to a contender, and maybe come back as a free agent. Great move by Theo rebuilding that farm system on trade at a time!!!               who will be next to go?

    • $19253129 4 years ago

      We all have seen Dusty screw up relievers so good luck Sean n Cincy.

  27. asovermann 4 years ago

    You must not understand that relievers are a dime a dozen in the MLB, especially NON-Closers, A closer like Santos is worth much more than Marshall, a 7th or 8th inning guy

    • bacboris 4 years ago

      Can the rest of us ask why? Marshall is much more of a shut down rp than Santos. Why all this love for the ‘closer’ label. Your team can just as easily lose games in the 7th or 8th inning as they can in the 9th.

      • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

        Because some GM’s and most fans overvalue closers.  Quite frankly, relievers of any stripe are a dime a dozen.  Even the best have bad years, and even the worst can occasionally perform.

        The Cardinals won the WS largely on the back of their bullpen’s performance in the playoffs.  Dotel was the only well known player in the pen.

      • asovermann 4 years ago

        Because relievers are a dime a dozen and because in the Cubs state they don’t need Marshall, they will be rebuilding for 3-4 years, by that time Marshall will be 34.  He’s a free agent after this season as well. Why take the chance that he won’t resign? Trading him for something is that smart move here and if they can sign him in 2013 more power to them.  Wood is a young controlled player who with a change of scenery could be decent as an SP or even an RP if he gets converted like Marshall was

  28. Lol next on Walt’s shopping list..bargin basement 4th OF’r and a veteran SS.

    • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Sappelt, Frazier and Janish are cheap and just as capable to provide the Reds with what they need, which is a 4th OF and a back up SS. Defense is very important to Walt and Dusty. All 3 of those players will give you above average defense.. The Reds are looking good. Wish we had Willis to plug into the BP, but oh well

      • Franl Edwardo 4 years ago

        Janish should be allowed no where near the park, unless it is as a visiting player.  it will only tempt dusty to play him.  Every pitcher on the reds pitching staff are better hitters than janish…not only that, have you ever seen how he chews his gum…just messed up

        • Jay King 4 years ago

          I agree with the hitting mention of the Reds pitchers are pretty decent for pitchers.

      • I’m okay with Janish and Frazier as the backups. Lol I didn’t mean he had to go pick some up.

  29. The new CBA requires a team to have a guy all year in order to get compensation if he signs elsewhere, therefore his value at the deadline would be diminished.

    • jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

      It also requires you to offer him a contract equal to the average major league deal, so 1 year/$12 million.  Marshall isn’t worth that deal, so he wasn’t going to get you compensation anyway.

  30. Funkhouser Jr. 4 years ago

    I, for one, am very happy with this trade.  I’m a Cubs fan.  A few years ago, the Cubs would’ve been lucky to get anything of value for Marshall in a trade.  He’s turned into a very serviceable lefty reliever, but he’s not the type of player you lock-up long term or spend a lot of free agency dollars on.  A few years ago he was considered a #6 starter/swingman.  He has 1 year left on his contract.  Wood is 24 and has the potential to be a very inexpensive mid-rotation starter (for any team, not just the Cubs).  I’m a little concerned with his fly-ball tendencies in a park like Wrigley, but hopefully he can work on that.  Overall, I like this deal without even knowing who the 2 prospects are.  Now if we can trade Marmol for something of value and continue to rebuild the farm system, I’d be even happier.

  31. I like this move and who knows, maybe WJ has a plan in place to sign Marshall to an extension before the season starts since they opened up some money from that Latos trade…then again that’s money I’d rather save for Phillips and Votto of possible, however we have a couple years left on Votto.

    Marshall or Chapman as closer (if Chapman doesn’t end up going to the Rotation afterall) with the other setting him up. Maybe one more arm, either another Latos level starter or a bullpen arm and then look at LF if we’re not prepared to give Heisey and Sappelt a go out there.

    I really like the feel of this team.

    • We will not make another addition to our rotation. Our BP seems set as well, with the exception of closer. LF should be Heisey and Sappelt. Backup SS should be Frazier or Janish to save money. NO more veteran ex cards please! We also have BP depth with the Brackman signing, he has upside. Horst, J Smith and Fisher. I do not want Cordero even though it makes sense to give him a 1 year 5 M deal, BC we would have 3 picks in the top 50 in next years draft and that would be an opportunity to re stock the farm system after the Latos trade.

  32. I am thinking Marshall may be our new closer.

  33. Jordan King 4 years ago

    Hearing the 2 minor leaguers are catcher Kevin Coddington and pitcher Travis Webb.

  34. goooob 4 years ago

    The good news for Cubs fans is that a year ago, this trade would not have happened. They may have obtained Wood on the low side. Or maybe he was exposed last year. Who knows, right.

  35. Eric Smith 4 years ago

    Im not convinced marshall wouldn’t be a good starter

  36. MacKenzie Pantoja 4 years ago

    I’m guessing Negron and Ravin. Corcino won’t be in the deal.

  37. Just like to add that it seems plausible to see Wood as a Ted Lilly type. In fact, at Wood’s age, Lilly wasn’t putting up good numbers either and it took him a bit of time to get a feel for pitching and to post much better numbers. Wood’s only 24

  38. Andrej Milas 4 years ago

    You know when you watch a game, and the 7,8th come up and you get worried your lead isn’t big enough because Marmol will probably close. I never felt that way with Marshal. He makes for easy, relaxing final innings baseball watching. The couple of times he got shelled were kinda freak instances. I am sorry to see him go.

    I don’t know who in our bullpen will make me feel like that, now.

    • BeisbolJunkie 4 years ago

      I too hate to see his arm go. Now that it will for sure fall off now that he’s in the hands of Dusty Baker. Dusty Baker eats rotator cuffs for breakfast, lunch

  39. Redsfanx 4 years ago

    Jocketty has shifted the Reds from building mode to winning mode for at least the next two years.  And it looks like the owner will be able to extend Votto after 2013 since he ok’d sending Alonso to San Diego.  With Latos and Marshall, the Reds are going to be the team to beat in the NL Central.

  40. RMR 4 years ago

    I can’t believe Cubs fans are upset.  You get 4 years of a legitimate #4 starter plus two prospects for 1 year of a relief pitcher (in a year in which you weren’t going to compete).

  41. Franl Edwardo 4 years ago

    The over reaction to a prospect having a down year in his sophomore season is comical.  Wood had a very good 2010 and pitched extremely well in the playoffs.  he had several good games in 2011.  The talk of his velocity being 89-90 is wrong. I watched every start of his, and he will touch up to 94-95 while pitching at 91-92.  he fell in love with his cutter and did not control it well.  He has a very good change up and solid curveball.  He is very very similar to Cliff Lee in the way he pitches, and approaches hitters.  When he throws consistent strikes he is very good.  

    Unless Marshall is extended in a good deal for the club or He helps them in a nice playoff run, this will be a bad deal for the reds.  Had the Reds put Wood on the trade market after the 2010 season he would have brought a nice return but he regressed and lost value.  Logically, he should rebound to have a good solid year for the Cubs.  

    • IndianaBob 4 years ago

      Soryr, Fangraphs has his 2011 average 4 seam fastball at 89.9 MPH and his cutter at 87.5.

      • Franl Edwardo 4 years ago

        fangraphs is a joke.  The guy wont knock walls down, but he doesnt exactly roll it up there either.  watch him this season, you will see 90-92 pretty consistently…or better yet, do what i did, dont read a web page result, watch the video

  42. Corey 4 years ago

    I was wondering why the Cubs got a fly-ball pitcher? Don’t we view that as a bad thing at Wrigley? Wood seems like he has a ton of potential though. I am guessing the Cubs will receive a couple guys under 22 with decent potential or speed. Bummer Grandal is gone, he’d have been a nice 2nd piece of this trade for the Cubs..
    Realistically, probably single or AA guys. This guy wouldn’t be bad: Ronald Torreyes.Cubs would have to pay good money to Marshall at season’s end, so it is a smart move to get rid of him now. Only question remains, could we have gotten more for him had we traded him around the deadline midseason?

    • Torreyes won’t be going to Chicago. Reds are high on him I’ve heard.

      • Plus even if Grandal wasn’t traded, there’s no way in hell he’d get shipped to the Cubs. Absolutely none.

        • You seem to know all of the prospects that AREN’T going.  How about just telling us all who IS going?

          • Lol no, I just know who they’re high on, and the one’s being named off are the high ones. Rumors on 700 WLW here have it being a double a catcher and an a ball pitcher. The pitcher’s last name is Webb and the catcher is someone named Coddington. That’s the 700 rumor.

          • Corey 4 years ago

            Travis Webb and Kevin Coddington. This rumor is realistic but let’s the air out of my fantasy bubble. Jerk…(jk)
            Webb is old and bad though, but adding catcher depth is on the agenda for the Cubs so that part is pretty realistic. If this is true, I will be holding Wood to a pretty high standard.
            In my mind he needs to earn a role as a 3rd starter, not accept the label 4th or 5th starter.

          • Lol sorry to burst your bubble there. But yes, from what I’ve heard Webb is almost 30 and injury prone. He’s stuck in like high a ball I think. Coddington could be a useful backup though.

          • The addition of these two makes almost no sense, even for organizational depth.  The position at which the Cubs are DEEPEST organizationally IS catcher.  Neither of these players are prospects and that’s pretty deflating for Cub fans, if it proves true.

          • Corey 4 years ago

            Webb actually made it to AAA last year albeit 1 game.. He’s  a big k guy who really improved his k/9 last year. And he is 27 and LH. I could see him in the bullpen the next year or two in Chicago though. Coddington would be pretty far from MLB ready on the other hand and more than likely never better than a Koyie Hill or so status. If this rumor is true, I imagine the Cubs are high on Wood, with the possibility of Webb as a Marshallesque setup man in a year or 2, and Coddington possibly making the majors as a backup catcher someday but primarily a sign to fill a whole on the Minor league depth chart.
            On the Reds side of things–we want victory and we want it now! Cause Marshall will at least double his salary at season’s end if he continues his last couple years pace.

          • He may help the Cubs then, but I don’t see him fitting into the Reds pen as long as Bray’s around. And the Reds losing a catching prospect, eh dosen’t bother me at all lol. I could see Marshall signing a multi-year deal with the Reds. Maybe 3 years 15 Mil total.

      • gocubs418 4 years ago

        You so sure about that? We will take good care of Sappelt and Torreyes in Chicago.

    • Corey 4 years ago

      My major question remains- Why are the Cubs so interested in a fly ball pitcher at Wrigley?

      • xcal1br 4 years ago

        Because about 65-70 % of the games at Wrigley are played with the wind blowing in, making fly balls a boon to most pitchers as they end up in outfielder’s mitts a lot more often than the seats.  The idea that Wrigley is a hitter’s park is a fallacy.

        • disgustedcubfan 4 years ago

          It’s also one of the biggest parks in all of  baseball down the lines( 353 and 355)

      • cubfan4life 4 years ago

        Fly ball pitchers can have success in Wrigley. For example Ted Lilly. A LHP with comparable stuff who had some good years for Chicago. Everyone expected a dramatic jump in his HRs allowed and such and while those numbers were a little higher than you would like it wasnt much different than when he pitched in Oakland or Toronto.

        I worry less about the effect Wrigley will have because Wood has a good 2010 in a true hitters park in CIN. At least some of his starts in Wrigley will come with the wind blowing in.

        Its more a matter of him working with the coaches and getting his command under control and learning how to be more of a pitcher and less of a thrower.

        In the end while i hate to see Marshall leave i dont mind the return we got for him. Regardless of who the minor leaguers are. I think Wood at worst is a 4 or 5 and could develop into a 3 as well. Pretty decent return for a guy who would basically waste a year on a bad team. Who knows maybe we’ll get lucky and see him come back after the season?

      • disgustedcubfan 4 years ago

        Because the wind blows in at Wrigley more often than not.

    • Corey 4 years ago

      Bodda-boom-bodda bing—ME and Epstein are on the same wavelength–show me the money!

  43. JoeyKonk 4 years ago

    The amount of outrage towards the Cubs on this deal is befuddling. The value of a reliever, even a top tier one at that, is moderate at best. When you get past the fact that Marshall’s influence on a guaranteed down year for the Cubs is going to be marginal at best you decide to trade and acquire assets for the future. 

    At this point I’m not quite sure who everyone thinks would be available better than a back end starter with potential, even if the potential is only moderate, and a couple of prospects. The last time I checked Jason Marquis was getting paid a lot more than Wood will come close for the next 5 years of control without any of potential Wood possesses. 

    Clear win for the Cubs on the economic side alone.

  44. I am not saying theo and jed will never make mistakes,but so far they 100% have made excellent decisions that previous men in charge would never make.Strap on your seatbelts cubby fans cuz this is going to be a ride of your lifetime.Guarntee cubs are contenders from 2014 until the dream team moves to the next project.GO CUBS GO THEO AND JED

  45. Prince will not be a cub unless its a maximum of 6 years.GUARANTEEE

  46. Steve 4 years ago

    I must agree with what123…I see NO reason to trade him right now, unless we are pinching pennies to sign Fielder..which makes NO sense whatsoever. Like putting a Hemi in a Yugo.
     You wait till the teams seperate in June and the playoff teams are clearer. At that point, Marshall becomes GOLD.
    Sorry, Theo, though not quite epic, it’s close. FAIL.

    • Brandon Paoni 4 years ago

      you realize that players in the last year of their contract will not be worth as much in trades now right? Since they will not be eligible for draft pick compensation they will not bring in nearly as much mid-season.

  47. yogiperp 4 years ago

    walt jockitty has come out and said more than once that hamilton and mes are totally untouchable.he never made that statement about any of the many other quality reds prospects.hamilton is a unique type of player in todays game.blazing speed  and the knowledge of how to use it.
    all you cub fans keep referring to wood as a 3/4 starter.on the reds roster even after the trade of volquez he is #7 and would probably start the season at aaa if he isnt traded.in a perfect world for cubs fans he projects to barely be a 5 at best.he’s actually a aaaa pitcher.a flyball pitcher with 80 somthing fastballs just dont cut it.

  48. justme 4 years ago

    Marshall excellent rp probably the best short reliever/setup guy in base ball but he wouldn’t be a closer in the cubs future while he was great this team needed a starter especially a lefty one badly,and at 24 its way to early to say the best he will be is a 5 as many have suggested,and for arguments sakes lets say that is all he ends up, he plus a couple minor league guys still far more value-able to the cubs…reasoning simple they are rebuilding and wouldn’t have resigned marshall anyway…if he continues to do as well as he has his price would be for hefty for a team starting from the bottom up.You roll the dice on a young starter who at worst  eats some innings he next couple years that alone  makes this deal a winner and makes sense for a team like the cubs are in there current state.And yes this works well for the reds as posted earlier by many with the brewers losing prince and braun and the cards losing pujos and larusa the reds have made them selves the favorite in a poor division, with latos who they probably over payed for and marshall.

  49. tommyhilfigure 4 years ago

    trade marshall 4 latos or chapman and bailey????

  50. tommyhilfigure 4 years ago

    trade marshall 4 latos or chapman???

  51. demonopie 4 years ago

    Cubs should have gone for Leake. At least then they could use his clothing discount.

  52. schellis 4 years ago

    Last year Wood lost a bit of control and fell in love with his cutter.  Wasn’t the same pitcher he was in 2010.  If he can get back to his 2010 form, and there is no real reason why he can’t I think he can be a number 3 starter to maybe a fringy number 2.  I watched the majority of games Wood has pitched in 2010, he was by far my favorite Reds starter that year usually gave the other team fits and had a lot of poor contact, he was hitting his spots so I don’t think that was a fluke that would go away as hitters saw more of him.   Last year between the 2010 innings, and his love of his cutter he started to miss those spots and lost some velocity.  I also don’t believe Baker has all that much faith in him.   

    Personally I think he’s a lefty Mike Leake and the Reds are going to regret dealing him for one year of Marshall unless the Reds can make the playoffs.

  53. maybe i’m a bit biased as a Reds fan, but I think that assuming Wood will be nothing but a typical #5 is not giving him enough credit. His 2010 season made him look like a #2, and sure, he had a sophomore slump, but many great pitchers suffer from sophomore slumps. I’m not saying he won’t be a #5, but i think that’s his floor. More realistically, I believe he’ll eventually be a low #3/#4, probably a #4. Still not an amazing addition, but certainly better than the #5 label that everyone seems so certain he’ll retain.

  54. xcal1br 4 years ago

    Also need to remember that Wood pitched about half of his games in the band box known as Great American Ball Park.  It’s like a little league stadium and is the antithesis of Petco Park in San Diego.  In Wrigley, he will fare much better in home games as discussed earlier in this very thread.

  55. Cosmo3 4 years ago

    Wow, both these minor leaguers look pretty darn solid. I think this makes the trade an undeniable win for Theo. Not sure how much better of a haul they could have gotten for one year of Marshall. 

  56. gocubs418 4 years ago

    Cubs easily won this trade. 5 years control of a SP, a MLB ready LF, and a decent A ball player for Sean Marshall.

    Theo is hustling Walt boy.

    • Wrek305 4 years ago

      Sapelt won’t see the day of light in Chicago with Soriano still around.

  57. Dear God Walt….. how in the world does this make sense?! Sappelt was one of the prospects?!

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      Sappelt is really nothing much to get too excited about. Yeah he is major league ready but on almost every team he is like a 4th of 5th outfielder at best.

  58. 0bsessions 4 years ago

    Considering how well his first big trade went, I have to imagine Cubs fans will learn to appreciate Epstein really soon.

    Now, about that compensation, I’d be happy to take either of these MiLB’ers off of your hands if you guys don’t like them.

    • MaineSox 4 years ago

      Cubs fans are all clamoring for him to start signing big free agents, because that was always his strength right?

      • 0bsessions 4 years ago

        They want big “free agents?” Fine, they can have John Lackey too.

  59. Ethanator99 4 years ago

    Wow this could be a really bad deal for the Reds

    • Leachpunk 4 years ago

      yeah wtf? We traded within our division 2 pretty decent prospects, why would we do that? The Cubs better be paying out his contract.

    • wouldyalookatthat 4 years ago

      Agreed.  What happened to the two other players being Webb and Coddington?  Really hope Marshall signs an extension with us now.

      • Jay King 4 years ago

        Well that could be in the works Walt is not a dummy.  Maybe he reworks his contract for say 2.5 this year and next year up 3.8 and another year for up to 4.5 million.   just guessing by the way.

    • Robert A. 4 years ago

      Man am I crossing my fingers that an extension is factored in here somehow. Or at least some cash considerations.

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      Ok Why is it a bad deal.  Reds before the Trade had like 7 Starting pitchers for only 5 spots. Maybe even 8 starting pitchers if you include Lecure.

      The single A guy who knows what he is going to do he is only 19 and yes his stats were very impressive but he’s a ways away from the majors.

      Travis Wood is a decent staring pitcher. I will say that. I am a little sad to see him go. But honestly the Reds didn’t really need him.

      Dave Sappalt.  Honestly didn’t do a whole lot in the majors so far. He has some nice speed yes but he does not know how to run the bases for crap.  plus his batting numbers are pretty sad in the bigs.

      So overall I don’t really see how this is a bad deal.  The Reds get a very good quality bullpen player who might be our closer.  Though according to reports he is going to be the primary set up guy. For whoever is going to be our closer. (still have a feeling Cordero is coming back like it or not)

  60. Kyle Mayhugh 4 years ago

    Wow.

    Hoyer (I know, it’s all really Epstein, but whatever) just flipped one year of a relief pitcher into:

    A 24-year-old starting pitcher with one year of service time and a career 92 FIP-

    A 24-year-old outfielder who is right on the borderline of being a useful MLB player or not

    A 2b prospect who just hit 356/398/457 in his age-18 season in the Midwest League

    Wow. I love you, Theo and Jed!

    • mark unknown 4 years ago

      Wood has the potential to be a #3 starter — or to spend the rest of his career in AAA.  But the Cubs gets 5 years of control with him, so he ought to be a cheap, back-of-the-rotation pitcher.

      Sappelt is 25 (or will be in a week) and is hopelessly overmatched against decent pitching.  He can hit bad pitching OK, but he has a lot of problems against a pitcher who can change speeds well (strikes out a ton and has little power).  Probably a AAA type you call up if someone gets hurt.

      Torreyes is all of 140 pounds and has a low ceiling.  He projects much like Sappelt — a career fringe player.

      If the Reds can extend Marshall for a few years, then this makes a lot of sense for both clubs.  Cubs get a potential mid-rotation starter; Reds trade a bunch of guys they don’t need for one player they really do need.

      • MaineSox 4 years ago

        The fact that Torreyes is only 19 makes him weighing 140lbs mean a whole lot less.  If he’s hitting well now, and if he has room to pack on another 40-50lbs, he has a lot of room for progression.

        (I’ve never seen Torreyes, so I have no idea if he has the type of frame where he could reasonably add on that kind of weight, so that if is a real ‘if’)

  61. matt78311 4 years ago

    Pretty impressed that they were able to get two decent prospects along with Wood for Marshall. Hopefully now all the Cubs fans upset about losing Marshall will see what a good deal this is for the Cubs.

  62. BlueCatuli 4 years ago

    If I remember correctly, Bob Brenly was absolutely in love with Dave Sappelt.

  63. gcheezpuff 4 years ago

    Wow… Nice haul for cubbies, gotta think Theo and Jed are planning to send another outfielder out of town. Sappelt should make the team as a 4th or 5th outfielder with a chance to start if he isn’t spunn off. Soriano or Byrd going somewhere?

    • Wrek305 4 years ago

      Soriano and 54 mil to anywhere for anyone or anything.

  64. Lars Chunks 4 years ago

    Cubs would have just lost Marshall to free agency after next season anyway.  Might as well get a jump start and multiple players instead of just the one you’d get from the draft.

  65. Bo Shi 4 years ago

    Yes, as much as I hate losing Marshall, this trade is solid and a long-term win for the Cubs. All three players the Cubs are getting are quality pieces, but Torreyes is particularly exciting. 19 year old line drive hitting infielder who’s career BA is well over .300 (albeit in only a few years of minor league play). If he has another great year this guy can instantly jump into the Cubs top 10 prospects list.

  66. gocubs418 4 years ago

    Wow. The Reds traded Wood, Sapelt, and Torreyes for Gio Gonz… Oh wait, Sean Marshall? :) Good trade for Cubbies

    • Wrek305 4 years ago

      Except Sepelt and Torreyes if they make the team out of Spring Training will sit on the bench 6 days a week with 1 ab each if they are lucky, Reds killed this trade by far. Sapelt is already screwed since he’s an OFer and with Byrd, DeJesus, Soriano, Tony Campana he’s outright done with the Cubs already, I didn’t realize Torresyes was only 19 it will be a good 4 yrs before he’s ready and he will be out of the Cubs system by then who ever he goes to he will probably be a star.

  67. hallwagner 4 years ago

    reds got screwed

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      No they didn’t and if you think so I don’t know what to tell you other than this.

      A infielder has a long time until he is in the bigs.
      Sappelt – Number 4 or 5 outfielder at best
      Wood —   #3 pitcher at best. more likely a # 4 or 5 even.

      I think the Cubs got more of what they needed in the deal then the Reds got with Marshall only being signed for 2012, but maybe Jocketty has a plan to sign him for 2 or 3 more years

      It just makes me laugh when people leave comments like this with no analysis.

  68. Kyle Mayhugh 4 years ago

    I don’t think it’s inconceivable to put Torreyes in the Cubs’ top 5 right away. But that says as much about the Cubs’ system as it does Torreyes.

    • Robert A. 4 years ago

      Away from his numbers, Torreyes only weighs 140 pounds. Sprayed singles all over the place but benefited from a .374 BABIP. Good contact, but has few overwhelmingly strong tools.

      • his career .517 slugging percentage would disagree with you. he only struck out 38 times in 705 PA. And typically speedy guys have higher BABIP, its common sense as they will get more infield singles etc.

        • Robert A. 4 years ago

          Right, and seeing him in person for a full season in Dayton, I disagree with that percentage actually being reflective of the norm for him. With the small samples, you’re placing an awful lot of emphasis on 285 plate appearances in rookie ball where he happened to slug .606. Of his 99 hits last year, 82 of them were singles.

          I’ll give you that he doesn’t strike out a lot, though – he was easily one of the more disciplined guys at the plate here in Dayton last season. But if you’re expecting a .500+ slugging percentage in the bigs from a 140 pound guy who doesn’t have any real power tendencies to begin with, I think you’ll be a little disappointed. Much more in the Keppinger mold, which depending on how you use him, isn’t necessarily a bad thing by any means.

          • I am by no means saying i expect a .500 slugger in the big leagues, I am just saying as he fills out a little I think he has a shot to slug .450 in the MLB. If he plays a plus 2B that is still incredibly valuable

    • he was underrated in the reds system, but i would slide him right around 9-12 in the cubs system. but i like him more than most. he still has a lot to prove

    • Gunner65 4 years ago

      Kid can flat out handle the stick. While his size has been the biggest detractor among scouts, all his has done is prove them wrong so far. Hitting like he has at 19 in AA though is impressive. 

  69. Jason 4 years ago

    http://mlbdirt.com/2011/12/21/2012-cincinnati-reds-top-16-prospects/ – This guy has Torreyes as the #6 ranked prospect.  The 22nd ranking was from a year ago.

  70. redsFAN86 4 years ago

    Marshall will be used as a set up man..and there is a deal in the works to bring in bailey or league plus a bat…however reds fans are going to be upset because they are going to lose a big player this time.

  71. Nickistoles 4 years ago

    Walt….REALLY, Com’on man. 

  72. lokeey 4 years ago

    Marshall’s arm will be done after a year with Dusty still managing the REDS. Just sayin’

    • redsFAN86 4 years ago

      Very true.. i cant stand rusty dusty

    • baybombers 4 years ago

      yeah baker cant handle a pitching staff, hes never been able to do it

      • Jay King 4 years ago

        Thats why Leake has been innings restricted the past 2 seasons. Same with Bailey..  Love how Cubs fans just think someone can never change.  Even if it is not dusty controlling that who gives a crap.  Oh and keeping Chapmans innings down too almost forgot how they did that the past year.   Man pay attention better.

  73. monroe_says 4 years ago

    If the Reds didn’t like Woods starting, they should have put him in the pen. With Sappelt and Torreyes added, what had been a lopsided trade becomes a downright fleecing. Jocketty is determined to leave the cupboards bare.

  74. Wrek305 4 years ago

    Has anyone heard of the minor league player the Cubs also got besides Travis Wood, probably 2 guys that will never make the 25 man roster at least not for the Cubs.

    • Robert A. 4 years ago

      Yeah man, I heard it was rumored to be the two guys that are confirmed in this very blog post. But who knows with rumors…

  75. Gunner65 4 years ago

    I am just feeling really uncertain about Jockety’s judgement when it comes to trades. The tree big trades he has made has left me feeling like he caves in to easily. Putting Stewart in the Rolen deal was the first. Latos deal made sense to an extent, but still feels like an over pay. Now adding in two of the Reds top 20 prospects along with Wood was just retarded for a reliever and until Marshall signs an extension its going to continue to feel like he has lost touch with reality.  

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      For getting a staring pitcher that is going to most likely be a #1 starter or #2 at worse.  You have to overpay in trade. Its the only way Cincinnati could improve the rotation cause spending on FA is going to cost way to much money that the Reds didn’t have.

      • Gunner65 4 years ago

        OK, that covers the Latos deal … now rationalize the other two deals  because they make much less sense

  76. Jason Zenk 4 years ago

    I have said for along time the cubbies needed a enema. Cut loose the overpaid dead weight (not that Marshall is).  Now it seems Theo and Jed are cleaning house…  I LIKE IT!!! just makes me NERVOUS !!! LOL

  77. Rozz513 4 years ago

    I like getting Marshal, but absolutely hate the fact that we gave up Sappelt. That kid has tons of potential. He hit north of .550 in Spring Training last season. He’s going to be a beast. I would have rather seen Stubbs traded and start Sappelt in center. Not happy.

    • disgustedcubfan 4 years ago

      I hope you are right about Sappelt.
      Also, Marshall is a nice pick up for the Reds, but he is not the second coming of Steve Carlton. He also is not a closer.
      His best role is the left handed, 7th or 8th inning set up guy. He is very good in that role.  I hope Dusty and the Reds don’t try to make him into something that he is not.

    • Jay King 4 years ago

      ROFL…..  wow.. yeah he hit great in spring training … Sorry that just made me laugh again.. Spring Training stats mean nothing really.  They are hitting off guys from A, AA, AAA pitchers and even Major league pitchers are still just getting warmed up. I know pitchers do better in the spring than hitters do normally is the rule of thumb but still Come on man your argument is terrible.

      He is a #4 or # 5 outfielder at best defense is pretty good and he can hit some singles.  Can’t run the bases very well poor judgement.

  78. Jennifer Campbell 4 years ago

    If Boston, Oakland, Seattle and Cincy are involved. I see the Reds getting Bailey from Oakland. They send Phillips to Boston, because it was rumored that Scuturo is trade bait for another starting pitcher. The Reds get Josh Reddick from Boston. The  Red Sox and Reds send Minor leaguers to Oakland and Seattle and Boston gets Brandon League from Seattle.

    • redsFAN86 4 years ago

      Couldnt have said it better myself. i agree

    • 0bsessions 4 years ago

      Brandon Phillips is second baseman, not a shortstop, the Red Sox are up against the luxury tax and hesitant to go over it and Phillips costs double what Scutaro costs.

      • Jennifer Campbell 4 years ago

        That’s right! Pedroia is at 2nd and there is no way the Red Sox would do that deal. They have Pedroia signed through 2014 with an option for 2015. I still think Josh Reddick may be the Bat they are talking about because he had been offered in other deals they were talking about. It could also mean the Red Sox may be thinking of sending Pedroia somewhere for a starter and unload his contract off the books or flipping Phillips in a deal for starter. Who knows?

    • That’s a good trade, but I don’t wanna see Phillips go. Surely Walt’s not that stupid.

      • Jennifer Campbell 4 years ago

        I don’t either, but it looks like we might lose him after this upcoming season, because he won’t agree to the terms the Reds want to offer. If a good deal comes along, Walt would be foolish not to trade him if he isn’t going to re-sign anyway.

  79. jeffmaz 4 years ago

    As a Padres fan, I have watched Jed do this over the last 2 years – trading high value players to load up the farm system and bring in replacements on 1 year deals. The replacement players are usually bounceback candidates – so don’t be disappointed when they fail.  It might take 3 – 4+ years, but eventually the Cubbies will be good shape.

  80. Garza
    Dempster
    Z
    Wells
    Wood

    Bullpen

    Samardzija
    Russell
    Gaub/Maine/ Believu or however you spell it
    Cashner
    Dolis
    ?
    Marmol

  81. Corey 4 years ago

    I pegged this one in an earlier post days ago, I said Torreyes would be nice! Somebody shot my idea down. Young guy with lots of upside. Nice trade fair for both sides!

  82. Guest 4 years ago

    i would love to see how much theo is gonna bring in for garza

  83. The Cubs needed Starting pitching 4 the lower part of the Rotation…yes We gave up Marshall…U all forget the Cubs still have Andrew Cashner plug him in there…Kerry Wood should be the Long innings guy & Cashner the set-up guy..risky yes with a rebuilding team that’s going No where why not..As 4 the Reds-Cub trade I feel good knowing that We have a good young starting pitcher with plenty of upside the other Prospects are Questionable…Wood provides US with a young Arm 4 years 2 come..Prospects are helpful..2..the farm system needed help & that’s what the Cubs got..       

  84. leachim2 4 years ago

    Jonny venters is better and Eric o’flaherty is pretty darn good.

  85. Matt Thornton disagrees

  86. If the Cubs turn around and sign Marshall offseason? Then it would be a giant win for the Cubs. They are trading from a position of strength on a total rebuild team for MLB starting pitcher. Even if he’s your #5 for 5 years – that has a TON of value.

  87. Knox618 4 years ago

    Cubs are in rebuild mode Reds are in win now mode with the absense of Pujols possibly Fielder and no Braun for 50 games….cubs WILL NOT compete in 2012

  88. Scott Downs would disagree with you as well.

  89. I disagree with you.  IMO starters are always more valuable than relievers.  With Wood you have a serviceable lefty who hits 89-90MPH, cost controlled and cheap.  The Cubs’ biggest weakness is starting pitching.  They essentially have only 3 starters, they need a guy like Wood.  

    Not to mention Wood is cheap and Marshall is a FA next year.

    The prospects are the icing on the cake no doubt.

  90. Venters is definitely better. Marshall is a top 3 though IMO.

  91. popular_mechanics_for_pitchers 4 years ago

    scott downs

  92. thegrayrace 4 years ago

    I’d throw Hong Chih Kuo into that mix. From 2008-2010 he put up a 1.96 ERA, 0.953 WHIP, 10.6 SO/9.

    LHB hit .095/.159/.111 against him in 2010.

    Though his health issues are certainly a concern, some team could get extremely lucky picking him up.

  93. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    no it doesn’t

  94. Tko11 4 years ago

    They desperately need Travis Wood? lol…they are rebuilding, it doesnt really matter who you plug into the 4-5 spots. 

  95. Tko11 4 years ago

    2007…

  96. vtadave 4 years ago

    So Theo didn’t really trade for Orlando Cabrera, Dave Roberts (remember that SB?), Kevin Millar, and oh, Curt Schilling?  He didn’t sign David Ortiz or Keith Foulke? All those guys were a part of the 2004 team…

  97. Gary J 4 years ago

    …says the guy named Obi Wan Jacoby – who by the way was drafted in 2005 after Theo was GM

  98. asovermann 4 years ago

    Tyler Clippard, Mike Adams and maybe even David Robertson are better non closers IMO, Robertson had an amazing year

  99. EightMileCats 4 years ago

    He wasn’t good last year. The only person you can debate being better than Marshall as a lh reliever is Phil Coke

    Anyway, joking aside, the only comparable is Venters

  100. dbreer23 4 years ago

    ???

  101. bobskube 4 years ago

    That’s a solid point. The point stands though. They would’ve gotten compensation via a draft pick or via 7/31 trade.

  102. vtadave 4 years ago

    Wasn’t aware that those guys all started pitching left-handed.

  103. Philip Marlowe 4 years ago

    Agreed. Marshall is a much better pitcher than Thornton.

  104. asovermann 4 years ago

    Wasn’t specified that they needed to pitch left handed I don’t believe but oh well, some of the people on here seem to think Sean Marshall is the jesus of RP and that the Cubs should be getting A level prospects for him, just adds to the fact that RP’s are a dime a dozen

  105. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    oh god “he hasn’t closed”. he’s better than ~80% of the closers in baseball

    marshall 2.27 SIERA 51 FIP- 60 ERA-
    s.santos 2.81 SIERA 70 FIP- 77 ERA-

    marshall ranks 4th, 1st, and 14th in baseball in those categories. he’s been 20 percent better than santos in terms of FIP, 17 in terms of ERA. they do not compare at all

    average leverage index? 1.53 to 1.47. and marshall has done much better than santos in higher leverage situations. the “he hasn’t closed” argument is laughable

  106. Jay King 4 years ago

    Who knows he might do a decent job too. 

    Heard Coco suddenly wants back in Cincinnati.  Wonder why haha..

  107. Neil Tatro 4 years ago

    what? marshall takes dumps all over scott downs face…

  108. Mario Saavedra 4 years ago

    Team no longer get compensation unless the player is there for at least a full year. The 7/31 market might have been even more swallow than right now. Besides, there are 2 unamed players in the deal, and you’re already saying this is a dumb trade. Get real.

  109. bobskube 4 years ago

    The Cubs would’ve received a draft pick if he played out his contract this year no?

    As far as the other 2 unnamed players, I already stated that I’m assuming they aren’t much based on what I’ve read.  They could swing it in the Cubs’ favor, no doubt.

  110. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    Experience doesn’t hurt.  I’m a Cardinals fan, though – the last two WS championships were closed out by guys without much experience, so I’m not a stickler for it.

  111. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    oops.  I’m running on old info.  I thought they planned to make him a starter this year.

  112. Jason_F 4 years ago

    OP: “Marshall is in my opinion the best lefty reliever in baseball”

    FYI, and I understand that WAR isn’t the best way to measure relievers, but regardless of handedness, Marshall has posted a higher WAR over the past two seasons that any other reliever in baseball.  Those kinds of guys definitely are not a dime a dozen.

  113. vtadave 4 years ago

    Thought it was pretty much implied when we were only talking about LH relievers.

  114. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    come again?

  115. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    1 more time.

  116. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    you can say that again

  117. bobskube 4 years ago

    Well, Marshall was 2.8 WAR last year, Gonzalez was .1, MacDougal was 1.1, Ayala was 1.6, Zumaya didn’t pitch and Rodney was 1.7, so I’d say about 1 1/2 to 2 wins.  That’s significant.  Particularly for a reliever.

  118. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    conclusions with no support

    marshall pitched under as much pressure as santos and has done much better both overall and in high-pressure situations specifically

    it isn’t about proving he can close. it’s about having any reason to suspect he can’t. you don’t have one

  119. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    I personally think that closer is the most overrated position in baseball.  Some GMs and most fans would disagree with me.  The fact remains, a decent closer will get you a better trade return than a good reliever.

    Let’s put it this way.  If Marshall were a free agent right now, would he get the 3/$27 million deal that Bell got?  He’s better than Bell, but not worth as much.

  120. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    No compensation, unless they offer him a 1 year / $12 million guarantee deal, which he isn’t worth.  See new CBA.

  121. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    this conversation has been about marshall, not the reds. the two of you are dodging  evidence left and right

  122. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    At the trade deadline, if he stayed healthy and performed well, Marshall could get a good return.

    In the offseason, teams aren’t desparate, so this is about the best you can get.

    Of course, “if he stayed healthy” and “performed well” introduce a certain amount of risk to the equation, regardless of history.

  123. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    absolutely he would have

    his principal competition after papelbon would have been madson, a guy who just finished proving setup guys can become closers

  124. Better than Randy Wells as well.  Reds will soon regret this, after the Cubs push for Yonder Alonso as well.  Doubt Cubs give up Wood, Theo loves him.

  125. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    Marshall may be better.  That is irrelevant.  The fact is that non-closers are viewed as less valuable than closers.  They sign for less money on the free agent market.  They get you less return in trades.

    I’ll concede that Marshall is better than Santos.  I’ll go so far as to say he is one of the best relievers in the game over the last few years.  This isn’t a discussion about how good he is, but about evaluating his trade value.  No matter how good he is, he isn’t a closer.  His trade value is lower because of it.

  126. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    mike adams

    evidence: dodged!

  127. Wood, these 2 minor leaguers, and one of those RP’s > Sean Marshall.   Not sure why we had to sell these guys.

  128. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    Aside from Rafael Soriano and Matt Capps, both of whom were former closers signed as injury insurance, the highest paid relief pitcher in the major leagues last year who did not enter the season as an experienced closer was Mike Gonzalez at $6 million per year.

    Try again.

  129. bobskube 4 years ago

    Yep.  Got it.  My bad.

  130. bobskube 4 years ago

    Maybe.  I’m no Wood fan.  And I like Marshall a lot.

  131. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    nonsense. there’s no guarantee either minor leaguer ever produces a thing and wood is a back-end starter

    those are easy to find. 2-3 WAR relievers are extremely scarce

  132. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    Trade deadline!  Had the Cubs waited, they may have gotten the same

  133. TophersReds 4 years ago

    They are going to see how he looks in Spring Training as a starter and then decide, Nothing is set in stone yet.

  134. TophersReds 4 years ago

    You guys did the same last year. We were envious of your rotation when you made all the trades last year. At least we can both agree on 1 thing: We hate the Cardinals. 

  135. Just have to say – you’re really taking names today with your arguments.  Well done.  Sad how many fans have no reality of ‘factual information’.

  136. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    I suspect he can close.  He hasn’t proven it, and therefore, has less value than if he had.  If he were the Cubs closer last year, and put up the same stats (with saves, of course), then you may be looking at two high-end prospects instead of Wood.  He wasn’t, you aren’t.

  137. Guest 4 years ago

    how about this?? if the cubs kept marshall,then anybody with half a brain would come to the conclusion that marshall should have been closing in the first place…..marmol is a freakin disaster and i still dont have a clue as to why marshall wasn’t the closer anyway

  138. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    i

    didn’t

    suggest

    two

    high-end

    prospects

    and you

    know it

    broooo

  139. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    try what again

    he’s 5 years younger than bell and would almost certainly have been signed to close

    boston, for example, would sooner give him 3/27 than pay madson his ransom

  140. Yes Marshall has been great the last 2 seasons, but only the last 2 seasons.  Great relievers aren’t born they are made and can be developed over time. Esp. if the Cubs have relief talent in the minors which my understanding is they do, they is not as much of a loss for the Cubs

    Simple case of both clubs filling needs.

  141. MacKenzie Pantoja 4 years ago

    This will be very hard to read!

  142. Franl Edwardo 4 years ago

    i understand rizzo has been great in the minors, but am i the only one to watch his AB’s with SD?  he looked like he had no approach at all and was completely over matched.  Shouldnt there be concern with other GM’s concerning Rizzo?  The Pads think so highly of him they traded for a guy to replace him.  I realize it was a very small sampling size for a ML hitter, but it obviously worried SD enough to consider Alonso as a central figure in the Latos Deal. 

  143. Jay King 4 years ago

    I am a Reds fan first by far.   But spent several years in Wisconsin. and rooted fro the Brewers and Reds.. Didn’t care which team won.  Well secretly until now Reds to win but still..   Doug Melvin has done a nice job as GM up there and The guy before him too in getting some really good prospects so they could make they could make the moves they needed to.

    Who knows Fielder still is a free agent.. Even thought I doubt it will happen you never know if his demands come down.

  144. Jay King 4 years ago

    Seems like Coco keeps hanging around.  I just have this odd feeling he will be back eventually.  As long as they don’t go over 2 years and 6 million a year I am barely ok with it.

    Prefered Deal for Coco..  2 years 4 million each or maybe 4.5 to 5 million the 2nd year.

  145. That was my initial reaction as well… but apparently they are looking at him as a setup guy!  A left handed specialist of some sort… There has to be some master plan that I’m just not aware of… I’m can’t see how this going to work out… we shipped out 2 mlb ready LF’s in the past two trades… so I guess we’re sticking with Heisey and potentially Cody Ross?!

  146. gocubs418 4 years ago

    Yeah. I know. Nice haul tho none the less

  147. chico65 4 years ago

    You like the cubbies getting Wood for Marshall?

  148. redsFAN86 4 years ago

    I know a friend who is in scouting and talks with agents..he told me we would have a reliever by the end of the week and now we have marshal. Talked to him yesterday and evidently since we can’t sign phillips long term we are looking to trade him. I really hope he was misinformed.

  149. lokeey 4 years ago

    True, but I’m sure he’ll improvise and find other ways to do what he did in Boston. Right now he’s playing small ball. He’s not swinging for the fence. And I don’t think he’s shooting for the fence. He’s slapping the ball around into the outfield, getting runners on base and making moves.

  150. Robert A. 4 years ago

    Cubs still owe SD compensation for Hoyer if I’m not mistaken, too…

  151. lokeey 4 years ago

    And Edison Volquez and Aaron Harang. Probably throw in Shawn Estes in there, too.

  152. Kyle Mayhugh 4 years ago

    Wood was damaged goods when he got into the Cubs’ minor league system.

    But Prior? Yeah, I’ll never forgive Dusty Baker for having a 20-year-old Prior shoulder the second-highest (to Wood) pitch count/start in the entire major leagues that year. I’ll never forgive him for letting him throw 130 pitches and 7 innings in a 10-run blowout in Game 2. I wonder how Game 6 might have turned out if Prior’s arm was just an inning or two fresher from the last start.

  153. jwsox 4 years ago

    Based on one year, being last year, yes marshal was better. But overall Thornton is a better pitcher. Not by much but better over all last year aside.

  154. jwsox 4 years ago

    It’s still not for sure that Braun will be out for 50 games.

  155. stl_cards16 4 years ago

    Volquez and Harang? Lol

  156. Kyle Mayhugh 4 years ago

    Because Wood isn’t really terrible.

  157. asovermann 4 years ago

    Because you didn’t look at Woods Home/Away splits, he has an era under 4 outside of GABP

  158. Jennifer Campbell 4 years ago

    It would make sense that they would deal Phillips somewhere else if he won’t sign for what the Reds need him to. They could take the money and work on signing Votto to a long term deal or extending Marshall past this season. Walt said that they wouldn’t deal for players that didn’t have team controllable deals in place for a few years. After Phillips didn’t budge on his demands, Walt probably decided to use the money they would save to trade for Marshall and then try to extend him. Besides physicals, he may have been talking with Marshall’s agent and got reassurance they could work something out before he pulled the trigger officially. I can see him possibly going to Seattle, because they would be more inclined to pay that kind of money than the A’s. Then again, It is possible as was pointed out that it could be a three team deal.

  159. redsFAN86 4 years ago

    I was told it.involves boston oak seat and.cinncy..and it involves phillips from.cinncy .. league from sea and bailey from oak and several others….if we cant sign bp long term trade him

  160. Jay King 4 years ago

    OK stop right there….
    Phillips negotiations are moving in the right direction.  A scout has no clue what a team is doing contract wise with a already signed player.  Also who plays 2b if Phillips is traded.. Makes Zero sense.

  161. 0bsessions 4 years ago

    That trade concept doesn’t make sense on any level. The Mariners and Red Sox both have second base locked tight between Ackley and Pedroia and Oakland’s going into full rebuild mode and have no reason to want a middle infielder with only one year left on his contract who’s making a ton of money.

    Completely bogus on every level.

  162. Phillips isn’t going anywhere. We have no one to replace him. Your “source” is insane. Why not just trade off Votto too? Or hey, how bout Bruce. Thank God your source isn’t the actual Reds GM.

  163. I don’t think the Reds deal Phillips. That would cause an uproar here. Plus, who replaces Phillips? Janish? Frazier? Lol no thanks to both.

  164. Jay King 4 years ago

    Last that was reported in the media The Reds and Phillips were moving in the right direction for a deal. 

    Have not heard anything new on that this week though.

  165. Jennifer Campbell 4 years ago

    Seattle is looking to add offensive pop because their pitchers got horrible run support this past season. Seattle could trade Ackley to the Reds for Phillips and improve their run production, plus get a solid defensive player. It would cost them money, but they would have to pay for top of the line players in the market anyway if they wanted to improve the team Batting average. Without trading Hernandez, Seattle isn’t going to get anyone on the trade market that good to provide offense.  They have the money, because they were one of the serious suitors for Prince Fielder.

  166. Jay King 4 years ago

    I don’t know I’m not sold on Ross… Hoping someone else is in their mind..  I would not mind Coco Crisp.

  167. Jay King 4 years ago

    I agree with you but Frazier could at least play there.  I doubt Phillips goes anywhere though.

  168. jhfdssdaf 4 years ago

    IIRC, San Diego agreed to take no compensation when Jed signed.  I don’t recall the compensation being worked out for Theo, though.

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