Red Sox Notes: Oswalt, Wakefield, Varitek, Ortiz

Last year this time considerable hype surrounded the Red Sox, who had just traded for Adrian Gonzalez and signed Carl Crawford. Gonzalez and Crawford are still around, but the hype has disappeared. Here’s the latest on the Red Sox as they prepare for Spring Training 2012…


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25 Comments on "Red Sox Notes: Oswalt, Wakefield, Varitek, Ortiz"


wickedkevin
3 years 6 months ago

Roy, no team you WANT to go to has a spot for you.  Get over it.  Stop trying to join a team with a full pitching roster!

stl_cards16
3 years 6 months ago

In St. Louis it has more to do with the money and NTC’s than a “full pitching roster”  I certainly hope that Jake Westbrook (besides monetary reasons) isn’t holding them back.

3 years 6 months ago

Last year this time considerable hype surrounded the Red Sox, who had just traded for Adrian Gonzalez and signed Carl Crawford. Gonzalez and Crawford are still around, but the hype has disappeared……

maybe because they were overshadowed by Ellsburry and the Drinking buddies

VivaJackMurphy
3 years 6 months ago

Maybe because they CHOKED in the most delicious way possible.

9/28/11 forever!

Redsoxn8tion
3 years 6 months ago

The Yankees 2004 choke was more significant. The 2011 Sox collapse to the Rays had no significance as the Rays were out in the 1st round. Glad you will hold 9/28/11 in your heart forever.

Caballo14
3 years 6 months ago

Weren’t the 2011 Red Sox suppose to be better team than the 1927 Yankees, and the team just about everyone picked to not only win the division, but also win the World Series champs. While 2004 might have been very bad, the Yankees back then had a very bad rotation which included Mussina (one of his bad years), Leiber, Kevin Brown, and Javier Vazquez which was going up against a rotation of Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, and Arroyo. Not making excuses, but there was no reason why the Yankees should have been up 3-0 in the first place with that bad of a rotation, even with the offense they had back then.

3 years 6 months ago

why didnt your beloved mariano close out the game then in 04?

ellisburks
3 years 6 months ago

The Red Sox were favourite but The Phillies were too. With their staff they were supposed to go to the WS as well and maybe beat Boston. Didn’t happen there either. The point is, reality happens and gets in the way of the best laid plans.

MaineSox
3 years 6 months ago

No one but the most blind Red Sox homers actually believed that the 2011 Red Sox were going to be anywhere close to as good as some of the greatest teams in the history of baseball (such as the 1927 Yankees).

There was a lot of hype around the 2011 Red Sox team, some of it undue, but I think the current Red Sox team is being underrated.  The truth is, the Red Sox are somewhere between what people expected last year and what some are expecting this year.

johnsilver
3 years 6 months ago

One thing this coming season will have in store?

Quite possibly they have unloaded many band wagoners who jumped on board after they had a tremendous run of playoff teams from ’04-09 and missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and moved onto another sport to band wagon for.

Good riddance as far as I am concerned as well.

MaineSox
3 years 6 months ago

We can only hope

wakefield4life
3 years 6 months ago

“Weren’t the 2011 Red Sox suppose to be better team than the 1927 Yankees”

No.

Karkat
3 years 6 months ago

Jason Varitek for third-base coach!

3 years 6 months ago

Rather have him as the bench coach, and (too late, I know) Bill Buckner as 1B coach. And as for Wakefield? Someone needs to kindly tell him to go home.

DunkinDonuts
3 years 6 months ago

Cuza could try to compare Ortiz to Fielder.  He could also compare him to Carlos Delgado, Mo Vaughn, and Jorge Posada — three players who currently see the field about as often as Ortiz does.

johnsilver
3 years 6 months ago

What exactly is “definitive resolution” in the case of Tek and Wake? they have -0- use (on the field) for Tek and barely a use for Wake.. Are they wanting to see both face to face before telling them these facts, or wanting to tell both that they will happily sign them to minor league deals and send them to Pawtucket as retreads?

pft2
3 years 6 months ago

The best comp for Papi is Papi himself in 2011.  His option for 12.5
million was picked up by the Red Sox after a 2.6 WAR 2010.  That’s about
the market rate for 2.6 WAR.  Papi then produced a 4.2 WAR in 2011, a
50% increase in production.  Red Sox counter that with an offer for a 1 %
raise.

Comparing Papi to poor/below avg defensive 1B man like Fielder is also
possible as 1B is considered the least valuable defensive position. 
Papi could also play 1B but the Red Sox wanted him to DH since they had
better options at 1B.   Fielder will be making 25 million at age 36 when he will likely be a DH.  Delgado is also a good comp, another poor fielding 1Bman.  He signed his contract after 2004 and in today’s dollars that would be an over 16 million AAV deal

Dunn was signed as a primary DH with a 4 yr deal worth 14 AAV and may be the best comp after Papi himself.  With 3%  inflation, that is 14.4 million today, almost at the midpoint.  Dunn is not quite the hitter Papi is.  Also multi-year deals are discounted as a hedge against injury and decline, so  Papis AAV should be higher on a 1 yr deal as there is less risk.

I think Papi wins this.

Joseph Jonathan Herrera
3 years 6 months ago

You’re not wrong, pft2, but in arbitration cases WAR never comes up.  The judges in these cases aren’t baseball experts, and comparisons to contemporaries seems to be a stronger approach than strictly stat-based.  A better stat comparison for this purpose is AVG, HR, and RBI.  Those numbers other than his average don’t increase as dramatically from 2010-2011.  He is the best at his position as full-time DH, but to say he would get that kind of raise given the competition to me isn’t as clear cut when you take out WAR.  I personally think the best deal for all involved might be the 2/18 that the Sox supposedly offered before, maybe negotiated up to to 2/20.  Would Ortiz accept this? Who knows. Still clearly above market for a DH but would lower the cap figure the Sox would pay this year freeing up more money for either Oswalt now or a deadline deal later.  Just my opinion.

andrewyf
3 years 6 months ago

Why would Ortiz accept 2/18 or even 2/20 when the least he can possibly make this year is $12.5M?

Ortiz is rightfully holding out for something like 2/26. And honestly, with pretty much no one in the Sox’s system looking ready to replace him this year or next, it wouldn’t be a bad deal for the Sox if they’re afraid of losing in arbitration.

notsureifsrs
3 years 6 months ago

ryan lavarnway is ready to replace him (and would have had he signed elsewhere). kevin youkilis could and probably should replace him next year

ellisburks
3 years 6 months ago

The Sox could use that spot for Youk or Lavarnway in 2013.

pft2
3 years 6 months ago

I think they fear losing to Papi in arbitration less than a 2 year deal with an AAV of 13 million.   The revenue sharing rebates kick in next year and being under the CBT threshold is much more important next year than this year.

pft2
3 years 6 months ago

That’s what people say, but how do we know really, and who knows if arbitrators lurk at Fan Graphs or B-ref digging into such stats before making their decisions.   I am sure some are baseball fans and as guys who arbitrate on questions of value would certainly not be incapable of understanding them.

Also, I use WAR as a short hand to indicate that Papis 2011 was better than his 2010.  His conventional rate stats all went up significantly, certainly worth more than a 150K based raise.  

Dan Gorgone
3 years 6 months ago

When guys like Vincente Padilla and Carlos Silva are being brought in for a chance to make the roster, I’m surprised more people wouldn’t want to give Wakefield a spring training invite, even if he only lasted half a season (perhaps, until Dice-K was ready to go). Somebody’s got to eat up innings, even if they’re only average innings.

3 years 6 months ago

Bring back Oil Can Boyd! He STILL hasn’t slept since his last start.