Cards Could Get Morris, Wilson From Pirates

Nobody needs Morris, but he could post better numbers in the NL Central. I just wonder if he'll help the Cards THAT much.

Morris isn't much, but with all the injuries the Cards' rotation faces every season (Carpenter and Mulder, especially), they could use all the help they can get. I just don't know why they've soured so quickly on Reyes.

Ozzie,

What are your honest projections for Matt Morris as a Cardinal in 2008?

IP, Hits, HR's, BB's, K's and ERA?

I'd say a 13/14-10 season Era in the low to mid 4's. Probably right around a 2-1 k/BB ratio. He'd eat up 200 innings with probably 230-240 hits. I am not gonna kid myself, he's not going to find the fountain of youth and become the ace again. But Matty Mo was and would be a staff leader for the Cards. He's good at helping younger pitchers, he learned this from his time with Daryl Kile. Plus in the trade market in today's baseball, I don't think the Cards have the pieces to get a frontline starter without moving one of Rasmus and Anderson, which they absolutely can't do. I like Silva and would love to see him STL, but honestly, is he worth 10+ million per? No, especially when we wont need him by 2010.

Morris would be a nice pick up for the Cards. He would fit in the three spot for the first half and then when/if Carpenter is healthy, he could slide in the fourth spot. It is a low risk deal. I agree with the previous post that Reyes will be a decent major league pitcher without the current coaching staff. I think the Cardinals are a little to eager to trade such a young/cheap pitcher.

Morris hasn't been the same since DK passed away, I would not go after him.

I don't like Marquis...but Wellemeyer? We've had this talk before...that guy is absolute garbage. Marquis, as bad as this sounds, is better than he is in his sleep. I'm with Teetz on the Morris thing...I think his ERA will be around 5.

hahahahahahaha! Phantom injuries??

Umm...I'm pretty sure Rolen is injury prone without me inventing anything. Thats really funny though. I'm a Cubs fan, but that doesn't make me anti Cards. I actually enjoy the rivalry. I think Morris and his 10 mil salary are ridiculous. I think the Cards would be much better targeting someone else...but thats just me.

I'm a Red Sox, but I grew up just outside of Pittsburgh and have always rooted for the Pirates to do well. I'm certainly pulling for them to turn the franchise around, and it looks like the new ownership and management has the right ideas in mind to set that in motion.

That said, it would be a huge benefit to the Pirates if they get anything in return for Morris and Wilson. I'd simply take a firm handshake in return from the Cardinals. If the Pirates can snag Reyes as a bounty, I'd consider that a steal.

I'm not even going to get started on Tejada, because I hate the possiblity for so many reasons.

Wellemeyer responded very well to Duncan last season, his only real issue as a starter for us was stamina. but if he had Spring training to work on stretching his arm out, I think he would be a very solid fall back guy if we dont get anyone else or once Mulder gets hurt again which is almost a given

"I hope and pray that we non-tender Wellemyer so he's not wasting a roster spot anymore."

Friend, if your prayers include that, you must truly be a man of God. :)

By the way, Marquis' ERA through the first 11 starts?

2.93

I have nothing to support my conclusion? How about...HIS CAREER!

Career 4.98 ERA pretty much says it all. He isn't good. If you really expect more out of him than you got this year, you are going to be sorely mistaken. He has always had a good fastball, but its straight as an arrow. Kind of like Farnsworth, but its not even as good as his is. Take it from someone that has watched him pretty much his whole career...he just isn't good. By the way...the Royals didn't even want him last year. Yes, thats right, the Royals.

@ Aduncaroo Ok watched him his entire career as a Cub, whole 57 games over 3 years. I'm impressed with how much time you gave the kid. Do all Cubs fan rate a player on 57 games player ... Seems like it ...

ADun,

Not trying to be funny ~ just pointing out the fact that anytime anyone is talking about the Cards and what they can possibly do to try and get better we can expect the same couple Cubs-Fan posters jumping in to try to explain how they infact cant get better and how the Cubs are/will be so much superior… Its just how nearly every single Cards thread on this board has gone.

Should it be expected? Well, in a Yanks thread you might expect if from a BoSox group of fans and vise versa ~ otherwise you don’t see the same Dodgers fans in Giants threads much, or the same Angels fans in A’s threads too often. Its just kind of strange how a couple Cubs fans have to try to squish any Cards news before it can even be discussed, as though some kind of inferiority complex and last years success has gotten into their heads to the point where they don’t even want anyone talking about the Cards and what they can do… That’s all…

I am smiling and hoping that Cards management feels the same way, and count on Todd Wellemeyer to give you something next year.

As for you Dark...you have some obsession with ripping on Cubs fans. Its pathetic. If you don't have something to contribute to the thread, just do us all a favor and shut up.

I'm not sitting here ripping on the Cardinals. I have a TON of respect for that organization. I've lived here for 2 WS appearances and a championship. I think they are an awesome franchise.

That being said, I don't think that counting on Todd Wellemeyer is the way to get back to those days...but hey, maybe thats just me. If you don't like me being honest, go to viva el birdos or something, where you can just hear feedback from other Cards fans. I bet you most of them wouldn't want to count on Todd contributing much of anything either.

Speaking of the NL Central, I predict the Pirates will be a consistent NL contender in 4-5 years. Neal Huntington is a fantastic baseball mind and is ahead of curve on most GM's out there already.

Teetz,

I have much less problem with you sense the other day you were actually able to provide a post that was thought-out, non-biased and non-defensive ~ the first such I have seen from you on here. But I would still love to maybe once be able to hear some thoughts on what the Cards are doing from other teams fans ~ not just an entire thread each and every time revolving around nothing more than a Cards/Cubs comparison. That is what all of them always become, and the reason why is because Cubs fans see "StL" and seem to salivate at the mouth no matter what it is about. In example ~ your posting buddy here is by far one of the most bias people I have seen when it comes to the Teams players ~ I've never seen someone who can argue for days as if guys like Soto, Marmol, Marshall, Hill, etc have next to no flaws and how each has these “projections” that almost have to take place because someone actually “projected” them. All the arguments are basically taking the best possible scenario and saying "I'll take that anyday ~ I dont want to hear anything otherwise"... It leads to long, pointless debates that are way off topic.

And yeah, when a Cubs/Cards thing breaks out in the first two to three posts we are much, much less likely to see other people get involved ~ meaning we never get the input of non Cubs/Cards fans in the Cards threads. I posted here because it gets frustrating never being able to read peoples opinions other than 2 Cubs fans and one or two Cards fans having to be on the defensive against their attacks on their team. “Morris be a 3” on the Cards ~ yeah, it might be a semi-laughable statement, but if in an ideal world he could (which he does have the ability) and probably will (since they don’t have the depth behind him, esp with Carp out) then whats the point of making a big tado about it? Itsnot like it would be a horrible thing for them to try, its not like they will be paying him upwards of 15M ~ so just whats the point of bashing it?

(Topic change)
And BillJamesSucks? Funny… Except, I would like to ask where it comes from seeing as I’ve only talked about him in two threads ever! One when I was saying how overly optimistic and rather ridicules projection on Soto was (I mean, he projects him to be better than Soriano really) and once the same day when someone mentioned they were out and I said something like “you can find some here, but I don’t know how much you will respect them”…

(Topic change)
Most importantly, if you don’t feel you fit the description of certain Cubs fans destroying Cards threads I pointed out ~ well then no need to be worried about it. If you are not in this thread doing those things, then why defend against doing those things? If an erroneous statement is made, you can point it out without getting defensive ~ if a person gets defensive or aggressive though it probably means the glove fits…

(Topic change)
Lastly, don’t like long posts ~ don’t care. Most of the time they come from answering like 4-5 posts, I just give one longer one then 5 individual comments. Ever see an argument with guys like ADun though? Its like 3-4 straight posts from him to every one another person provides ~ hence the reason the replies get long… I’ve given each reply-break here a label so maybe you can understand what I’m talking about…

(Topic change)
Oh, one last thing that I thought I would like to add in since Type-Key is playing its game with my post. Yeah, I might have an opinion on stuff but what you should be able to notice is the fact that I let many, many other posters get in before I start a debate or give my real indepth thoughts. I don’t hijack threads in the first 5 posts with rants or comparisons to other teams though, I don’t change the threads from (in this case) Cards to Cards vs Cubs or random Cards bashing… I post (if at all) way down in the threads after everyone else has spoken ~ and it’s a huge difference.

Who cares, its just a mlb trade rumor site. Why is everybody being such a bitch. Of course Cubs fans will think their team will be better than the Cards, and with the Sox and Yanks. Just deal with it.

Moving on, I think the Pirates should try to move both of these guys to the Cards in a single deal. They could probably target getting something like Anthony Reyes and Bryan Anderson. I think Reyes just needs to get out of St. Louis, doesnt seem comfortable in that environment anymore, I think he could bounce back and make an awesome rotation with Snell, Gorzelanny, Maholm and Duke. And considering the Pirates don't have much in terms of catching prospects, I bet the Pirates would love to get Anderson, who is blocked by Molina anyways.

Scribble to get someone like Anderson, Pit is either gonna have to add someone with real talent like Snell or Bay. This deal will end up being nothing more than a salary dump for the Pirates if it happens. The most the Cards should give up is someone like Reyes. and Just a tidbit, Anderson isn't blocked by Molina, he's Molina's replacement by 2010

Ozzie,

Do remember that 2X half values do start to make something closer to a full value here. If Wilson or Morris were dealt individually you would expect only about ½ the return ~ add them together though, and a higher level prospect might not be completely out of the question….

And yeah, I know I don’t have to defend ya guys ~ and I'm not trying to! I just want to be able to read Cards threads without it from time to time. I don’t really even mind Teetz much; his usually 1-2 lines of smart-ass remarks can be funny and he is willing to atleast be honest about players much more ~ it’s the other ones endless bias rants and inability to let anything go that makes them so difficult to read though…

dark, from the sources i have, it sounds like the deal started as talks about Wilson alone, but then went to the Cards agreeing to consider taking on Matty Mo's deal as well but only as a way to get Wilson for less value. THe rumor going around is Morris can be had for next to nothing if anyone will assume his contract. So that's why my comment about no way Anderson would be involved. The only reason Reyes is even on the table is it's a known fact that Cards need to move him which hurts is already wounded potential

He's only a tick behind Colby Rasmus? I've been hearing a lot of really high praise for him and really not very much for Anderson. He has the potential to hit 20 HR in the majors? he posted a .388 SLG last year in AA as a 21 year old. I guess he could fill out in a few years but you should be happy you have Yadier for now.

Yeah is was 20 my mistake, I'm rather envious of the Cards for being so set at catcher. Especially if Anderson can really hit, since a good hitter catcher is generally a commodity.

Thats why I was thinking trading one of them would be a benefit. But I guess it would make more sense to just wait and trade Yadier when Anderson is ready to take over

I think keeping both of them wouldn't be sensible if they both have good trade value, because the Cardinals seem to have a lot of holes, and their farm system doesn't many guys to fill them. If they could move one of them for a Jed Lowrie, or an Erick Aybar or even a Matt Antonelli someone like that, don't you think the Cardinals would benefit greatly from that?

Anderson is good, but he is more than a tick behind Rasmus. Rasmus is a top 10 prospect in baseball if you ask me. Anderson is probably not in the top 50.

A buddy of mind brought up a very interesting point. I think the time to trade Molina is now. His value is NEVER going to be higher than it is now. Most cards fans hate hearing this, but think about it. Anderson could be ready as late as the end of next year. If you believe in him, you could sign a LaDuca or Estrada for cheap, and on a one or two year deal, and Anderson would be on his way. Do you have any idea what kind of return you could get from a team like the Mets? I honestly belive you could get one of their top 5 prospects...but I could be wrong there.

Dark...you warrent very little response. I throw up in my mouth seeing your alias. You still haven't contributed to any of the discussion...so please, seriously, shut up unless you are ready to. And stop bitching...for the love of God.

Ozzie,

I just took a closer look at Anderson. There is a lot to like, and a little do dislike. Offensively, he seems to be a very patient and good hitter, posting an avg over .300 and an OBP of .377. Thats awesome for a 20 year old catcher. The only downsides are the complete absense of power (3 HR in 431 abs) and his defense, while improved, was rated as a -6 instead of -8 by BP. He is only 20, and there is a lot to be excited about though for sure. I'm gonna keep my eye on him though. It will be interesting to see when BP ranks the top 11 Cards prospects and what they have to say about him.

Hahaha, yeah ~ whatever Adun… Why don’t you just go on enlightening us then since you seem to have been such an integral part of the Morris/Wilson/Pitt/StL conversation with the “Marques in his sleep is better than Wellemeyer” arguments and 4 straight posts of talking to yourself…