Rosenthal's Latest: Santana, Fuentes, Heilman

NO to Rios!!!

If they want a QUALITY arm they need to give up MORE!!

If we do trade Lincecum, send him to the Reds for Bruce, Encarnacion, and Hamilton

I hated Scott Schoeneweis as much as the next Mets fan did, but to give him a little break, he was pitching with a torn muscle in his thigh or maybe his calf for the whole season. He was pretty solid in September. The rest of his appearances I have had erased from my memory.

Lefties hit .204 off of Scho last year. The only reason his stats were so bad was that Willie insisted on using him against righties as well, and they tore him up.

That being said, a LOOGY isn't worth $3mil a year.

I'm not sure I would have done this deal either. Not because of Scho, but because of Heilman. Is Fuentes that much of an upgrade? He sucked away from Coors last year.

On Mike and the Mad dog, they talked about a possible Lowry and Sanchez for Matsui and Shelley Duncan swap. Now, Duncan would probably fan 150 times, but he would also probably hit 30 bombs in a full season of at bats. That would add around 50 HRs to a power starved lineup. Zito, I understand that you love Lincecum, and rightfully so, but I dont know, Rios is a really good player, and he is young. He contributes in every part of the game, can play all 3 OF spots, and can bat pretty much anywhere in the order. It seems like a fair trade to me.

Gibbons, Guillen suspended 15 games http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7532310

Minaya, just unload the truck and get Santana...

Heilman/Fuentes is a wash, but if the Rockies were willing to take "The Show", then the Mets should have accepted...

Only acceptable trade for Lincecum, Carl Crawford! Otherwise, leave him in place

I would take Alex Rios over Carl Crawford in a second.

Carl Crawford is Randy Winn with more SB's NO WAY

Pitching is WAY too valuable these days. Kuroda is now being talked up to 15 mill a year.

Lincecum at bargain basement price until 2012, other teams need to stop lowballing.

Lincecum for Rios / Cecil / Diaz ok...

Want a fun thought? How about this one Minaya is saying they do not need a front line starter. Why? they already have on worked out on paper and they are just trying to work out a long term deal with he and his agent.
Again just a fun thought no reality to this.

People are underestimating Rios' value. As neither a Blue Jay nor Giants fan, I'd swap Lincecum for Rios and a mid-tier prospect in a heartbeat. Pitchers bring a lot of risk and Rios is a .300+/30+/100+ stud with a great arm and above average defense in right. He's a 3-5 bat in a lineup starved for power.

wow this would really amuse me to see heilman leave and santana come. really come on OMAR lets go man surprise all those met fans out there that talk bull

about u!

I keep seeing this horrible rumor everwhere about the Mets and Rays making a deal involving 7 players. It is getting ridiculous someone even posted a fake MLB link
http://macsmets.com/mlb/

"People are underestimating Rios' value. As neither a Blue Jay nor Giants fan, I'd swap Lincecum for Rios and a mid-tier prospect in a heartbeat. Pitchers bring a lot of risk and Rios is a .300+/30+/100+ stud with a great arm and above average defense in right. He's a 3-5 bat in a lineup starved for power. "

Only if he faced left-handed pitching all the time.

Rios is pretty average when you look at his splits against righties (which is who he would predominantly face)

Rios After allstar break stats were FAR lower than before...

Either he got tired/lacked motivation/pitchers figured him out.

There are MANY OF's that are as good or close to Rios. There aren't many pitchers with Lincecum's potential.

Dude, it doesnt matter. He put up back to back 850 OPS in his 25 and 26 seasons, and that is bouncing all around the lineup. He may be better against lefties, but you make it sound like he is a platoon guy. He plays every day. He is still getting better. I will take a 27 year old guy who is still learning and improving and is already posting an 800 ops vs righties and a 1.020 ops vs lefties and plays amazing defense at all 3 outfield spots, and will probably steal 20 or more bases every year for a while. If a team decides to move him to CF, then it increases his value even more. If this guy was a CF, he would be talked about like Wells, Beltran, Andruw, Torii Hunter, but he plays RF in Toronto, so you dont hear about him on ESPN and stuff. Dude is a stud.

Why didnt my name come up with my post? Anyway, I disagree, Zito. There arent that many outfielders with the tools of Rios, or the upside. And he is already an all star calibur player.

people out of the AL and mostly the AL under rate Rios alot

Man you guys are WAY overvaluing Lincecum. He's a risk in a handbasket with that size/delivery. He is not in the same class as Santana, Bedard, or even Kazmir. He's in a class with Hughes and Bailey. If someone offered Rios and two average prospects for Santana you bet the Twins would be all over it. You people act like he's already won the 2010 and 2012 Cy Young awards.

MEddler...

Jays want a 1 for 1 trade..
They tried to get Lincecum for Lind.

Giants are in Re-Build stage. Rios is a 3 hitter. You build around pitching or a 4 hitter.

Rios is neither. Lincecum stays.

I think Sabean may have made a mistake not taking delmon for lincecum. The giants want young position players, and in terms of youth and potential, it does not get much better than delmon. I understand lincecum is a phenom, but I think that delmon is probably as good a return as you could get for him. Plus, you play in a pitcher;s park, and you have good enough pitching to grow on to compete.

Rios wasnt a 4 hitter last year cuz of another guy..his name is Frank Thomas

Bottom line is the Giants are going to suck with Rios or without him. Plus he is eligible for FA before Tim.

I'd rather keep Lincecum.

Blue Jays want him so bad, they can extend their offer.

You only build around 4 hitters? Thats ridiculous. The number 3 hitter is a lot of times the best hitter on the team. And they are usually interchangable. David Wright and Beltran switched from the 4 to 3 spots and both took off. Alex Rodriguez can easily bat 3rd. You build around guys that can be stars. Rios is that. You can argue Lincecum is too, that is fine. But dont use some weak cop out reason why you dont do the deal.

Zito ur really overrating Tim and underrating Rios

I didnt say you only build around 4 hitters. I said PITCHING and 4 hitters.

What good is it for us to have Rios batting 3rd if Bengie Molina if Ray Durham or Pedro Feliz is batting 4th?

Then we have a hole in our pitching staff to fill. Carlos Silva who projects 10 mill a yr? Kuroda who is now projecting 13-15 mill a year?

This deal just doesn't make sense for the Giants...

Larsen...

I know Rios is a great player...he just isn't right for the Giants in this trade.

If they want Lowry/Sanchez/Hennessey fine..

Rios' value is still climbing. What have we learned in the past from players who are able to put together two great half seasons and have had brief stints of utter dominance in their careers? He's going to put it all together, and I bet he does it next year. Risk/Reward and if you're the Giants, you can't afford to take the risk on Lincecum when the rest of your roster looks as it does. Get the Jays to throw in a mid-level prospect who is blocked in their system and take the deal. They should have taken Delmon.

I understand you saying that you just like Lincecum, but if you trade Lincecum for Rios, trade Lowry and Sanchez for Matsui and Shelley Duncan, that gives you an okay 3, 4, 5 group. I think Duncan could be a poormans Pat Burrel, aka the Homeruns and the K's but less walks. Im just saying, Rios has proven himself over the last 2 years, Lincecum really has only half a season of success, you dont know what will happen in the second year. He is also a peanut, throwing 98 mph, there are always arm worries.

Then again, the Giants roster is in such bad shape I could almost understand keeping Lincecum over Rios. Getting Lincecum and Cain to dominate every 2/5 games might be their only chance at .500. That's a helluva lot of risk for a franchise to be taking though. The whole franchise riding on the arms of two pitchers.

If we trade Tim/Lowry/Sanchez then our pitching staff is

Zito
Cain
nobody
nobody
Correia

Not so good for us.

I'd rather we sign Fukudome and keep Lincecum.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/mechanics/discussion/controlled_fury_tim_lincecum/

Tims Mechanics

Bottom line guys is the fate of the Giants rest's on Cain/Lincecum, I also feel you guys under-estimate Lincecum, the kid was pitching in college last year, this year he makes it to the bigs and fans 150 in 146.1 innings. Cole Hamels took 4 years to make it to the bigs, Lincecum did it in 1, if the Jays offered Rios for Hamels they'd get laughed at all the way to Canada. The only reason why people think this deal would work is because the Giants are in dire need of a bat but from what I see JP is lowballing Sabean while he's down.

"Cole Hamels took 4 years to make it to the bigs, Lincecum did it in 1,"

Cole Hamels drafted out of high school debuted at 22 & 6 months, Tim Lincecum drafted out of college debuted at 22 & 11 months.

So no idea what your point is with that nonsense.

The Giants would be flat out retarded to trade Lincecum for any reason short of Detroit deciding they don't want Miguel Cabrera.

I couldn't give less of a crap about the Giants now that Barry's gone, but every time I see Lincecum is pitching I stop and watch, the kid is a joy.

what is with this missing username stuff?

The Giants should not be shopping Lincecum (or Cain). I'd hold onto him unless we are blown away, and, all due respect to Rios, who is a great player, he doesn't blow me away. I'd only trade Lincecum if another team pulled a Sabean and offered way too much value.

Sabean should consider how enraged the Giants fanbase will be if he lets Lincecum go. He's already hated for the Pierzynski trade (among others), and Lincecum's value is significantly higher today than Nathan or Liriano's were at the time.

While you worry about any young pitcher's health, Lincecum's health risks are overblown, the product of MLB's fear of anything unconventional. Watching Lincecum pitch, he is consistent & under control of his mechanics. This isn't Felix Hernandez w/ his clear injury risk due to wild mechanics. See Zito's link above.

Giants should be focused on unloading bad contracts if possible and picking up ex-prospects who have lost their luster. I want Sabean searching for the next Brandon Phillips. I've got no problem w/ us picking up some established offense, but I'd rather score the least runs in history than trade away our future.

Plus, there is always Barry Bonds out there on the market if we want affordable offense and a draw to Willie Mays Park while we're rebuilding.

sorry for the mini-essay, basically I'm saying don't shop Cain or Lincecum, and don't worry about Lincecum's unconventional motion.

The Mets are delusional if they think they have a chance for Santana with the offer they are giving the Twins. A couple minor league prospects isn't going to cut it. It has to be two young top tier players like Reyes and/or Wright packaged with Maine and two minor league prospect ready if necessary to play Major League ball.

It is going to cost a pound of flesh for the Mets.

I don't understand why NYM, NYY and the Red Sox think their prospects are so much better than other teams because they are in their system. The Dodgers are probably the most likely team to please the Twins in a trade deal for Santana if they of course could afford Santana's contract extension, which they cannot afford to do.

Wright/Reyes + Maine + prospects? Are you retarded? Wright/Reyes alone would get Santana, idiot.

The Dodgers may have the prospects, but Santana doesn't want to go to LA, he specifically said NY or Boston...

Hyro is definately right on this one. If the Mets offered David Wright they could probably get Santana straight up. And otherwise it'd probably be like Reyes and Humber or something. Do really need more evidence that Reyes and Wright are already elite MLB players?

"I don't understand why NYM, NYY and the Red Sox think their prospects are so much better than other teams because they are in their system"

And the reason that the Yankees and Red Sox think their prospects are so good is generally because they are. Guys like Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata, Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez and Deolis Guerra are actually elite prospects. It's not that they aren't overrated, because some of them slightly are, but at the same time these guys are some of the elite young players in baseball. If they played in San Diego or Houston or something everyone would still feel the same about a lot of them.

Way to be the opposite of an east coast bias. Instead of favoring them, you're essentially bashing them without any evidence. I'm not sure which one irritates me more..

And why the hell won't it say what my display name is. I hate that its far harder to respond to my comments because they're anonymous

Reyes and Humber for Santana. Thats comical. Omar would want Mauer back if he traded Reyes. He has said no to even offering Reyes, you think he will add prospects in with Reyes? Screw Santana and his no trade clause. I dont get how one could even argue that Haren isnt much more valuable. Even for the same package. Isnt the point of trading for a guy instead of waiting for him to hit the market so you can control him and try to lock him up cheaper? Kind of defeats the purpose when you have to pay 20 mil a year or more at 6 or 7 years right off the bat.

I am now sort of on the side of the Yankee fans who dont even want to do Hughes straight up. Is one year of Johan worth 5 of Hughes? And if it is, is, is Santana more valuable then Hughes over the next 5 years at 20x the cost?

I will take Haren for 3 years and 15 mil or whatever it is any day over Santana for 7/150.

I didn't mean that the Mets should or would offer Reyes and Humber, I was just saying that if they were to do a deal with the Twins, that's likely what it'd take. Never said it'd be a good idea, and I already said that I thought Reyes and Wright were elite players.

Plus Reyes didn't play that well last season other than the stolen bases. He batted 280 with a 775 OPS, The 60 extra base hits is good, but I was far from impressed. Still think he is and will be an unreal player, but if the Twins dealt Santana to the Mets, I think they would want something like Reyes and Humber. I know the Mets won't deal Reyes.

True.

what the hell was that Kazmir limnk? anyone have any info.....it looked real....

wow i got duped. i apologize