Discussion: The Angels’ Offseason

Three months ago, who would've guessed that the Dodgers would have the most active winter of any Los Angeles ballclub?  Following a barrage of criticism from fans and media over how the McCourts' divorce and ownership dispute was hurting the franchise, the Dodgers added a bullpen arm in Matt Guerrier, rebuilt their catching corps following Russell Martin's departure, and re-signed all three of their free agent starters (Hiroki Kuroda, Ted Lilly, Vicente Padilla), also adding Jon Garland to the rotation to boot.  Not every move has been well-received — the Juan Uribe contract jumps to mind — but overall, it's been a solid offseason for the Dodgers.

Compare their situation to that of L.A.'s other team.  The Angels suffered their first sub-.500 season since 2003 and looked primed to add at least one top-tier free agent to their roster.  Almost all of the Halos' top targets, however, went elsewhere: Carl Crawford signed with Boston, Adrian Beltre signed with Texas and some longer-shot targets that the Angels at least mildly explored (Cliff Lee, Derrek Lee, an Adrian Gonzalez trade) failed to pan out.  The club added left-handers Scott Downs and Hisanori Takahashi to the bullpen, but those have been GM Tony Reagins' only major moves of the winter.

In the wake of Beltre signing with a division rival, the knives have come out in regards to the Angels' underwhelming winter.  Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com says "not only have the Angels shown they're not prepared to compete financially with the big boys, but they've shown they can't even compete financially with the big boys in their own division."  Fanhouse.com's Tom Krasovic says the club has had "one stinker of an offseason…so far" and quotes an unnamed AL executive who says that missing out on Crawford was a big mistake.

"If [the Angels] are being scared off from premium players in the market, they're in big trouble," said the AL executive. "They don't have a lot of talent coming up. They are known for being difficult to trade with. They are going to have to spend wisely in free agent to make up that difference, but that's getting harder and harder to do with what's out there."

Reagins told MLB.com's Lyle Spencer during the Winter Meetings that the Angels wanted to stay away from "unaffordable bidding wars" over players who were asking for more than the Halos thought they were worth.  This policy certainly has merit, and given that L.A. had signed the likes of Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu in recent years, Los Angeles can't be criticized for ignoring the free agent front.  As Knobler points out, however, it doesn't make the team look good when owner Arte Moreno promises to spend and then comes up short. 

Spencer also notes that the Angels didn't do anything this winter to combat the perception that they aren't "capable of engaging [Scott] Boras in meaningful dialogue," which is an obvious issue given the number of top players Boras represents.  Rafael Soriano, for instance, is a Boras client, though even if the Angels went after the top-rated free agent left on the market, a top closer is a much less pressing need for the Halos given the Downs and Takahashi signings and the presence of Fernando Rodney.

MLBTR's Tim Dierkes identified a third baseman, an outfielder/DH type and a leadoff man as the primary "unfinished business" the Angels had to address before Opening Day, mentioning recent rumors tying the club to the likes of Scott Podsednik and Johnny Damon.  The Rangers' signing of Beltre also may open the door for Vladimir Guerrero to return to Los Angeles, while Spencer suggests the Angels might consider trying to re-acquire another former Halo in Chone Figgins

There's still plenty of time for the Angels to make moves that will make their team better next year, but barring something surprising, it will be hard for the team to shake the perception (or perhaps its own feelings) that the 2010-11 offseason was a missed opportunity.


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207 Comments on "Discussion: The Angels’ Offseason"


Brent Schuber
4 years 7 months ago

The angels are better off not doing anything the rest of the winter and just wait till next offseason and go after 1 of the 3 or maybe 4 big free agents next year in jose bautista, pujols, fielder, and agon if he doesnt extend in boston

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

I think Fielder seems like the most logical option for the Angels at this point and if they get desparate enough maybe they can acquire him by midseason. As for Bautista, he would be a nice addition, also. But the Angels outfield seems pretty jammed so where would he play if they were to sign him as a free agent next year, third? There’s still options for the next year or two but the Angels certainly missed out this year on some big names.

oefvet
4 years 7 months ago

No way they acquire Fielder mid season. The trades the Brewers made this off-season show that they have come to the conclusion that they will settle for draft picks when Fielder leaves.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Or… they’re no in contention and they get a deal they can’t resist.

studio179
4 years 7 months ago

It’s pretty safe to say the Brewers are in contention all year in the NL Central.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

On paper. Let the games be played first.

studio179
4 years 7 months ago

That is your reasoning…games have to be played. Ofcourse, games have to be played.

Like the other poster pointed out, Milwaukee did not improve the team and make the trades they did just to dump out in July. The NL Central is up for grabs and you know it.

4 years 7 months ago

and what…bench/DH Bam Bam? I will never get how many people think that Fielder will just roll over and be a DH as young as he still is….and think he is a perfect fit for the Angels. Kendry Morales has progressively showed he is becoming a very good defensive first baseman, and before the freak accident last year on par to put Prince’s offensive numbers to shame. Oh yeah, and he’s much cheaper right now.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Who says he’s going to become a DH? I did no say that anywhere in what I said so why are you assuming I’m thinking that?

4 years 7 months ago

So Fielder DHs? I don’t get it. He’s probably the least logical option when you consider everything. If you’re going to spend for a position which you already have filled, might as well get THE name in name recognition: Albert Pujols.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Doesn’t Morales have experience in RF? I said he’s the most logical because most likely Pujols and AGon aren’t going to hit the open market.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

So you move Morales to RF.

Now you have Hunter, Bourjos, Abreu, Rivera and Trout waiting in the wings. You have Napoli at DH. That gives us (with Kendry in the outfield) 5 outfielders today and possibly a 6th depending on Trout’s advancement.

In my estimation here is what the team DOESN’T need:

1. 1B
2. DH – unless you trade Napoli (which they should since the team won’t let him catch)
3. OF’er – unless it’s via a trade and you can move Abreu/Rivera as part of the deal

Perfect world I would:

1. Reacquire Figgins. Send over to Seattle Callapso or Kendrick or Wood. Seattle pays half the salary.
2. Trade Napoli. Stock up on the farm system.
3. Trade Abreu. Salary relief. No prospects required.
4. Bring in Vlad/Ramirez on a 1/$5 type deal to DH.
5. Add in a low cost LF option as insurance/platoon partner for Rivera (Damon/Pods) or get Trumbo out there working on his defense in LF.

Trading Napoli off-sets the Figgins acquisition financially. Trading Abreu gives you a surplus vs signing Vlad/Ramirez. You restock the farm with the Napoli trade. Your new lineup goes like this:

Figgins (3B)
Bourjos (CF)
Morales (1B)
Hunter (RF)
Ramirez / Guerrero (DH)
Rivera (LF)
Kendrick/Callapso/Izturis (2B)
Conger/Mathis (C)
Aybar (SS)

Personally, I think those moves are all feasible and this gives you a much better lineup while strengthening your future.

Julian R M.
4 years 7 months ago

ummm, you forgot Trumbo, and why would the angels require figgins… he had a season long slump, and has a fan i couldnt help but notice Aybar giving figgins dirty looks when they played…

nickham16
4 years 7 months ago

Hey give fielder some credit he is a pretty good defender

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

The Angels have needs.

1st base is NOT one of them. Unless Kendry can slide over to 3rd there is NO way that Fielder makes any sense. He can only play 1st (occupied) or DH ($20m DH?).

No question that he would be a huge asset in any lineup but you are fixing a problem that doesn’t exist by bringing in Prince.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

My sentiments exactly. There’s a reason the Angels didn’t go after Tex after 2008, because they trusted their up and coming 1st basemen, Morales. I don’t understand the logic that says you pass up on Tex and go for Fielder, when Morales only has gotten better since then.

Keep in mind, this guy was top 5 in MVP voting in 2009. And in 2010, he was looking to repeat: In 51 games before his freak injury, Morales hit .290 with 11 home runs and 39 RBIs.

Oh yeah, if you want to dissect it further, the Angels weren’t in on A-Gon as well.

I think it is very clear the Angels are content with their first base position, and will not be in on Fielder at all.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

Let me get this straight. And please, tell me if I misread something…

You’re saying that the Angels should go for Fielder because he makes the most logical option for the Angels. And they shouldn’t go for Bautista because he would have no position to play?

Dude…I think you got it backwards. Bautista would play 3rd, where Angels have a clear need, and Fielder would have no position, because Morales is holding down 1st.

vtadave
4 years 7 months ago

Riiiight…because the Angels aren’t going to be able to compete for the likes of Adrian Beltre, but Albert Pujols shouldn’te a problem.

4 years 7 months ago

If you think the Angels are scared to go after carl crawford you think they will go after Pujols? Yeah right. There is no way arte moreno throws out a 150+ 30 mill a year.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Yes there is. Because Albert Pujols is the only player out of all these yahoos that is actually worth the money! Werth, Crawford, and Beltre aren’t even close to being worth what they signed for. Let the Nationals, Red Sox, and Rangers deal with the stupidity of signing those horrible contracts.

4 years 7 months ago

When A-Rod was worth the money, at least I thought after 2007. Arte balked at giving him 20 mill a season. I doubt he would go more than 25 million a year for 6 years.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

How many Championships has A-Rod brought the Yankees? One! There should be another dynasty in NY with the players they’ve signed. But there aint, lol. And A-Rod is putting up numbers that are more like the $16 million dollar range. Arte is a smart man. Too many bad contracts in MLB right now.

Chuck345
4 years 7 months ago

Well then Arte will watch the other big spenders win championships instead while he sends a message on what he thinks about the bad contracts.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

You don’t have to spend $200m to win a championship. It’s not like the Angels are running a $60m payroll.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Let them. The Angels built all their playoff teams the past 9 years around young talent, and there is no reason to not continue that, especially since almost all of MLB is copying that formula, which is one of the main reasons so many ridiculous contracts are going to NY and Boston.

4 years 7 months ago

“When A-Rod was worth the money, at least I thought after 2007.”

LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

4 years 7 months ago

“When A-Rod was worth the money, at least I thought after 2007.”

LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

But if you declared that you are going to do whatever it takes to win like Arte did, you better back it up. I definitely agree most of the free agents this year, except for maybe Crawford, were overpaid. But the Werth deal just messed up the market for everyone, so if you really want to show your commitment to winning you gotta be willing to pay a guy the money hes worth then. And i’m not talking about Beltre, the Rangers can enjoy paying 16mill for a 36-year old. Crawford for 142mill is definitely worth it for the Angels, especially since he would’ve filled alot of the Angels holes.

But yeah, I agree with players being overpaid this year, and i think the Angels didn’t have that awful an offseason, they did do something about their bullpen woes. It’s just if your owner says you’re gonna do anything to win, you have to prove.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Arte couldn’t back it up because the Angels are run like a corporation. He had his offseason budget in place, and then he was blindsided by those outrageous demands from the likes of Crawford and Beltre after the enormously ridiculous contract the Nationals gave Jayson Werth. He offered Beltre what was not only within the organization’s budget, but what was also what was still beyond what Beltre is really worth. That’s why Arte came out and said what he said later on. If being fiscally responsible within your company’s means equals having a bad offseason, then no wonder we are in a recession.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

The Angels are operated in one of the largest media markets in the country. You would have to be incredibly naive to believe that Moreno’s means are any lower than the Red Sox.

The Red Sox generally go into an offseason with a set budget, but Epstein acknowledged early on that in a market like this one, you have to basically hold your nose and give out more than you’d like or fail to compete.

Contrary to some peoples’ beliefs, next year’s free agent class is not particularly pleasant. Gonzalez and Pujols are close to mortal locks to be extended and once those two are extended, the market will be set enormously high for Fielder, which leaves the Angels either overpaying for him by a wide margin when they’ve already got Morales OR signing Bautista, who few people believe will replicate his 2010 numbers ever again.

Crawford was their man and when they let him slip away, they started a trend for this offseason that could very well bite them over the next couple of years.

Alex Gomez
4 years 7 months ago

Actually the Angels don’t operate in one of the biggest markets. They are located in Orange County, Anaheim to be exact.

They just “changed” their name to market themselves as a LA team when they really arent. Is it working? IMO I don’t think so, but u never know.

4 years 7 months ago

Orange County is part of the Los Angeles media market, just as the Inland Empire is. In Orange county when you turn on the television you see Los Angeles stations and the Angels games are broadcast on an LA station.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

The LOST $10m last year with a budget south of $130m.

The Red Sox and Yankees both MADE money with budgets that were $25-100m MORE than the Angels.

Having your own TV network helps. Charging the highest prices for tickets helps. Having historic franchises helps.

You can’t just look at population sizes and assume that all revenue streams are equal. They are not. They are not even remotely close.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

You have no idea what’s going on with the Angels.

You have no clue how different the commute is for most people in SoCal than it is in compact areas like NY and Boston.

They were never seriously after Carl Crawford.

Jayson Werth’s contract warped the FA market.

Too many people out there who have no idea how to run a fiscally responsible business.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

“You have no clue how different the commute is for most people in SoCal than it is in compact areas like NY and Boston. ”

No, I don’t, and neither do you. Suffice to say, though, you’re definitely trivializing the commute out here. As I said, do you sincerely think that even half of the people in Yankee Stadium on a given night are coming from inside New York city limits? If you do, you’ve got some serious naivette issues. Likewise, Boston. Fenway Park is actually in the middle of a big, fat tourist trap area of the city where very few actual residents live. A large chunk of Fenway patrons are coming from places like Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine or the suburbs, all of which involve driving however far you have to go and then spending anywhere from thirty to forty five minutes on the T accounting for connections (Parking inside the city costs a fortune and parking at a T terminus usually involves changing subway lines to get to Fenway, which is on the green line, the worst of all T lines).

So yeah, it takes most people an hour or two to get to a Sox game, I imagine it’s probably even worse for the Yankees.

“They were never seriously after Carl Crawford.”

Laughing Out Loud, as the internet slang goes.
Yeah, you’re one of maybe three people who believed that line. There are multiple stories all over the place that completely contradict that, some by Moreno himself, as I recall. Beyond that, if the Angels were never seriously after Carl Crawford, I’ve got to question their sense, Crawford would’ve been an absolute perfect fit for them.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

To add on to my point about commutes:

I live in Cambridge, literally about two miles from Fenway Park. Without a hint of exaggeration, there are days when I can actually walk to the park faster than I can get their via mass transit. I can either take the red line to Park Street and then switch to the Green Line, all told that’s about 45 minutes of travel on a game day (Games usually start at 7:10 PM, right smack in the middle of rush hours on the T), or I can take the #1 bus to Newburry Street and walk for fifteen (Dependent on traffic, this has taken me anywhere from half an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes) minutes or take the #47 bus to the hospital area and walk five to ten minutes (Usually the best bet, but that bus line is infrequent and you have to hope it’s not full, or you’re screwed).

So yeah, all told, I live 2 miles from Fenway and my record for getting there is half an hour and that was on a day where I hit pretty much every walk signal right and didn’t run into too much wind on the MIT bridge.

4 years 7 months ago

As in we are not going to pay 142M for someone that does not hit homeruns. SIMPLE

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

Point one: Crawford hit 19 home runs with a slugging percentage just shy of .500 and those numbers have been consistently rising the last few years AND he’s on the right side of thirty, so, yeah, odds are he’ll top twenty next year. He was in the top fifteen of qualifying MLB outfielders in OPS last year. So yeah, sorry, but he hits the occasional home run.

Point two: The market is up, your choices were to overpay for talent or enjoy missing the playoffs the next two or three years.

4 years 7 months ago

I bet there are less than 50 Angels season ticket holders that live within 2 miles of the stadium.

You’re comment about the Red Sox and Angels being on similar financial ground is way off. The Red Sox annual TV revenue is more than the Angels got in their last five year deal combined.

Two completely different markets (both of which I’ve lived in BTW). In the past few year almost 40% of the Angels season ticket holders lived in what is called the “Inland Empire”. The worst highway traffic in the country is the 91 freeway, the only connection between Anaheim and the Inland Empire. Stick to talking about the Sox, you are right on there.

4 years 7 months ago

I bet there are less than 50 Angels season ticket holders that live within 2 miles of the stadium.

You’re comment about the Red Sox and Angels being on similar financial ground is way off. The Red Sox annual TV revenue is more than the Angels got in their last five year deal combined.

Two completely different markets (both of which I’ve lived in BTW). In the past few year almost 40% of the Angels season ticket holders lived in what is called the “Inland Empire”. The worst highway traffic in the country is the 91 freeway, the only connection between Anaheim and the Inland Empire. Stick to talking about the Sox, you are right on there.

Halofan15
4 years 7 months ago

I agree with the idea of standing pat the rest of this offseason, unless they could reacquire Chone Figgins for a bargain basement price. The current roster is bloated with egregious contracts; Matthews, Jr., Kazmir, Rivera, Abreu – to some extent, and you could make the case that Torri Hunter was a bit overpaid. Thankfully some of these will finally be off the books next year

It’s time for the Angels to see what they really have with their current roster. In 2009 much of the team offensive numbers were far better than 2010. 2011 should be a year to find what they really have in Howie Kendrick, Macier Izturis, Mike Napoli, Peter Borjous, Jeff Mathis and the young arms in the bullpen.

As an Angels fan it pains me to see them miss opportunities, but it pains me more to see signings that do not seem to make economic sense to the long term strength of the team. I’m sorry, but signing Crawford for $142 million would have been a mistake.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

Exactly. They can win in 2011 without doing anything else. I wouldn’t bet on it but the potential is certainly there.

The thought of committing $240m to Crawford and Beltre makes me physically ill. Both deals could definitely turn out just fine. However, both carry tremendous risk. I’d rather not take on that risk right now. There are deals to be had right now. Spend your money wisely and you will reap the rewards.

It’s funny to think about just one year ago. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, was praising Jack Z and the Mariners. They landed Cliff Lee. Bedard was brought in on a below market contract. They moved one of the biggest albatrosses in Silva for a productive (though malcontent) player in Bradley. Figgins was a huge coup – stealing him away from the Angels.

How did that turn out? And the consequences? Seattle has been a mute this off-season. High payroll, poor players. They have no financial flexibility to right the ship.

People need to remember that just DOING something for the sake of doing it does not equate to improvement. Overpaying for talent is not the pathway to long-term success for organizations with limited payroll.

4 years 7 months ago

fully agree!

4 years 7 months ago

trade for david wright…. or else

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Or else you’ll make witty threats from your computer?

4 years 7 months ago

i wasnt even being witty, I just think he would be badass in LA

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Well the Mets plan seems to be to build around what they have so trading Wright would be pointless. If they can spend big on the draft now they’ll have prospects reaching the majors in a couple years meaning Wright, Reyes, Pagan, Bay, Santana should all still be together.

Chuck345
4 years 7 months ago

Hell would break loose in Queens if the Mets traded David Wright…not that they are hanging onto much anyway.

Pete
4 years 7 months ago

Mets need to rebuild, their farm system stinks/is overrated. Remember how F-Mart was supposed to be a superstar by now?

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

How can a bad farm be overrated? Yes, they had F-Mart along with Carlos Gomez, Humber, Lastings, Pelfrey, etc..but every system has top prospects, even bad farms. And, for that matter, the Mets system tends to get more than a normal share of hype, probably for being in NYC.

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

How can a bad farm be overrated? Yes, they had F-Mart along with Carlos Gomez, Humber, Lastings, Pelfrey, etc..but every system has top prospects, even bad farms. And, for that matter, the Mets system tends to get more than a normal share of hype, probably for being in NYC.

Pete
4 years 7 months ago

Mets need to rebuild, their farm system stinks/is overrated. Remember how F-Mart was supposed to be a superstar by now?

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

Easier said than done.

What would you give up and what the Mets want? You have to picture the bounty being enormous. You going to give them Trout? I’m guessing that’s where the conversation starts and ends.

Wright is great but he’s had 2 back to back just OK years (by his standards). He will also earn 2/$30m (club option for 3rd year). Trading top tier talent plus absorbing $15m/year seems like a bad idea to me. Would have preferred to keep Trout and just pay up for Beltre in that scenario.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

There is a 0% chance of Wright being traded. The Mets have molded him to be the face of the franchise. He’s marketed in commercials here like the answer to Jeter.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Moreno simply let themselves get outbid. They don’t want to play games with agents when in all reality, the agents aren’t always making up this interest in their players. If there is another big market team involved on a big name free agent, get ready to spend. Maybe Moreno will learn for next offseason, all I’m saying is this offseason must have been tough as an Angels fan. Yes, they still have a good team but they let some pressing needs pass by.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

You mean get ready to fall into a trap and willfully invite the elephant into the room.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

It is what it is.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

No it’s not. Arte remained fiscally responsible and stayed within his company’s means, which is why he’s rich in the first place. If overspending is an acceptable business method in the game of baseball then no wonder we are recession. When the Angels have a Yankees sized TV deal, and charge $50 bucks for parking, then maybe we’ll see the Angels hammer out those huge contracts.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

Those poor small market Angels, how ever can they compete stuck in that awful Los Angeles market! They should move to Oklahoma or something, because lord knows that being run out of one of the three largest media markets on the continent and fielding a team that’s made the playoffs almost regularly for the last decade makes for some tough budgeting.

4 years 7 months ago

You continue to illustrate that you know nothing about the LA/OC media market. It’s not like Arte can flip a switch and all of a sudden Fox Sports West is offering what YES pays the Yanks or NESN pays the Red Sox. It’s a process. The team had never been marketed outside of Orange County until three years ago. Their TV deal pays them one fifth of what the Yankees or Red Sox get, which explains why the Angels lose money every year and the Yankees and Red Sox make money, even though they have higher payrolls.

$1519287
4 years 7 months ago

the yankees as a team actually lose money as has been reported for years. YES is where the real money is made. Both bits are owned by the parent company Yankee Global something and that overall makes a profit, but the yankee baseball team loses money.

4 years 7 months ago

Dude. You’re team has proven time and again that ownership can’t make trades and they can’t deal with Boras. Why do you keep saying Moreno is a smart business man? He can’t even deal with the biggest sports agent out there. The Angels did an extremely terrible job. They weren’t the favorite coming into this season, and now have an extremely thin chance of even finishing second, and you’re happy for them?

NathanielS
4 years 7 months ago

He’s a smart business man because he made himself a billionaire. I think that qualifies.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

As a die-hard I AM HAPPY.

This isn’t sour grapes either. You can read through my post history. I wouldn’t have gone above 7/$110 with Crawford or 5/$70 with Beltre. If bidding goes above those numbers you move on and let someone else make a mistake.

The Angels have several Boras clients on their club. They have made competitive offers to recent Boras clients including Teixeira and Beltre.

The Angels have made some HUGE trades in recent years. Kazmir hasn’t worked out but that was a big trade. Big money and lots of prospects. Last years blockbuster was also orchestrated by Moreno and team … landing Dan Haren. Also big contracts dollars.

Don’t let facts get in the way of your argument though.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Really?

What about the trade the Angels made for Mark Teixeira?

What about the trade for Dan Haren?

The Miguel Cabrera fell through because the Marlins’ GM made a stupid last minute decision to take 6 prospects from the Tigers who never made it, while the Angels had a long list of prospects available, all of which made it. That trade is considered the worst trade in Marlins’ history.

The Angels don’t fall for Scott Boras’ games and stand their ground.

How do you think they were able to sign Jered Weaver after drafting him?

I keep saying Arte is a smart business man because he got rich on his own, bought the Angels for cheap, built a top attendance draw by lowering prices while still maintaining one of the top payrolls because of the TV deals he made.

Don’t act like you knew Jayson Werth was going to sign for $126 million. Everyone was blindsided by that.

And now everyone is looking for someone to blame because their predictions were dead wrong due to an over inflated FA market.

There is no clear cut pick to win any Division. Baseball is as competitive as it’s been in 20 years.

4 years 7 months ago

go halos! i have faith in this organization

vtadave
4 years 7 months ago

Except the Mets don’t well, really have much in the way of a farm system.

Thurman8er
4 years 7 months ago

Trading for Wright is a pipe dream. Give up.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

That’s why they added Riccardi & co. Riccardi has done well drafting over the years. Writing the players checks is the only mistake he made while with Toronto.

Thurman8er
4 years 7 months ago

Hands down the worst off season of any team. After a few years of having ONE of the worst off seasons. Arte’s comment about “doing whatever it takes” only made matters worse. I really can’t blame them for not overpaying for long term speed or for defense and questionable offense at third. But if they don’t make a trade for 3B before opening day, they will be even more of a laughing stock.

The next couple of years are going to determine how fair-weather the fans really are in the OC.

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

ehh i think the offseason hurt Arte’s image more than the Angels. He lost ALOT of respect and credibility. and callaspo is a decent 3B, he hits for a pretty good average. Sure he doesn’t knock out homers like Beltre, but K-Mo can make up for that. I don’t really think there’s any 3B significantly better than Callaspo that the halos should trade for, and no we probably won’t get Wright.

halos1
4 years 7 months ago

kendry is the only legitimate power threat…there’s no one supporting him

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

yeahh but homeruns don’t necessarily guarantee a good offense. plus as the giants proved, all you may need to win a championship is good pitching, and a decent offense.

and remember, this the same angels team that led the league in offense in 2009. it was just plain bad luck that almost everyone on the team had an off-year last season. i guess im just being optimistic here, but i believe players like aybar, howie, etc will bounce back next year.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

“homeruns don’t necessarily guarantee a good offense”

Well said. I posited this argument a ton last year when everyone in my fanbase was crying about letting Jason Bay walk. Keeping the line moving is a lot more important than power.

Honestly speaking, I’d call the division the Rangers’ to lose next year, but power isn’t necessarily the Angels’ biggest issue.

4 years 7 months ago

Mike Napoli would hit 30hrs a year if he got the playing time. The worst move of the offseason for the Angels was tendering Mathis a contract. That’s 1.3M down the drain.

Torii Hunter has hit at least 20hrs a year for a long time, and there’s no signs of him slowing down.

Juan Rivera, while not outstanding, could easily hit 20+hrs assuming his production falls somewhere between ’09 and ’10.

The Angel’s lineup is still fairly potent, just not elite.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

I’ll add to your point by saying that few World Series teams have had elite lineups. It’s about who had just enough talent, and how hot that talent got at the right time.

4 years 7 months ago

Wrong. Nap hit 26 homers last year… Rivera, Hunter, and Abreu can all knock in over 20 easily but all had an off year last year..

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Arte lost a lot of respect from fans who have no clue how a successful business is run.

East Coast Bias
4 years 7 months ago

But isn’t that an overwhelming majority? Or does everyone in LA/Anahiem have their MBAs? You have to keep in mind, fans are the ones paying $ to go to games. Yeah, Arte may be a good businessman, but perception is reality, and if the fans perceive the organization/owner isn’t doing enough, that hurts the bottom line.

4 years 7 months ago

both of you are right about this… Bandwagon fans pay the bills

carlos
4 years 7 months ago

i for one am shocked moreno has cheapened out this offseason, but i think he just flat out must not like boras otherwise it makes no sense. the team desperately needs help and texas has lots of young players and the As pitching is legit.

Thurman8er
4 years 7 months ago

It makes sense when you realize that those are REAL dollars that Arte is spending. It’s not $142 million in Monopoly money or poker chips.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

It also doesn’t make sense when the Angels are one of a handful of teams with the resources to pay a guy that kind of money, had the chance AND a need and refused to. There is no “over paying”. This is what baseball is turning in to. The contracts are going up every year. Are the Angels going to let every free agent pass by because the market is increasing for players? If so they better learn how to draft extremely well and trade players before they hit arbitration.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

You have to realize that the Angels have to accomodate a fan base that drives as far as 50 miles to get to the ballpark. In NY, all they have to do is walk or ride a cab or a train 10 minutes, and they are there. With that, the Yankees get away with charging $50 bucks for parking. They also have an outrageous TV deal. The Angels are still strained by a demographic that is spread out further than the eye can see, and also in an area where people are laid back and care more about their hair and make-up than they do about good old-fashioned hardball. It’s a different culture. Still, Arte Moreno runs the Angels like a corporation. Therefore, being fiscally responsible is part of their protocol. I like that. That’s why he’s rich. Steinbrenner would probably make the same kinds of decisions Moreno has made if he owned the Angels.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

Do you genuinely think that people don’t travel more than a train ride to see the Yankees? They have one of the most widespread fanbases in professional sports, people cross the country on a regular basis just to see them.

Also, you should consider learning more about the markets before you say something so ignorant. Do you genuinely believe that most people living in the Bronx can afford to go to a game? Do you know why they get away with charging $50 for parking? Because they are a big draw and the ownership funnels a ton of money into the on field product in order to put butts in the seat.

“also in an area where people are laid back and care more about their hair and make-up than they do about good old-fashioned hardball.”

Tell that to Jack Nicholson. There is absolutely no excuse for Moreno to cite budgetary constraints when he runs his team within spitting distance of the Lakers. You make money on a sports team by fielding a succesful product, you field a succesful product by paying what the market dictates to put a quality team on the field.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

The Yankees pay LESS of a percent of their revenue towards payroll than the Angels. And it’s not even close.

The discussion is not about spending – it’s about revenues. The Yankees/Red Sox, etc have revenue streams that are not remotely comparable to the Angels. Blame demographics, fickle fan base, lack of major corporations in Orange County … whatever. The facts are extremely easy to understand though. The Red Sox and Yankees currently make and will continue to make more money than the Angels could even dream of. Yanks could go in the crapper and win 70 games for 4 straight seasons and the Angels could win 4 WS and THEY STILL would not be close to matching the revenues of the Yankee.

Oh … the only thing in common between the Angels and Lakers is that they are within 50 miles of each other. The Lakers play basketball. They play in a different market (downtown LA is NOT the same as Orange County). They have arguably the most storied franchise in basketball (similar to the Yankees for baseball). They have one of the two marquee talents in the game with Bryant. They have Phil Jackson. Again, there is no comparison between the teams.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Check your own ignorance before you claim ignorance in others.

I think you’re the one who needs to learn about markets because the Dodgers increased their payroll up to $100 million dollars 10 years ago and stayed there.

The Lakers brought Kobe up as a rookie. That right there shows your ignorance.

Those great Yankees teams in the 90s, as well as their dynasty 60 years ago were built around homegrown talent that didn’t cost anything close to $250 million.

You build a winning team by developing a strong young core, while building around them with the RIGHT players.

Ever wonder why 8 teams have won the World Series in 10 years?

Similar things are happening in the NFL.

Baseball is as competitive as it’s been in 20 years.

Show me an actual dynasty in New York and Boston, and then maybe we’ll talk about spending.

4 years 7 months ago

is $50 for parking an exaggeration? or is that the actual cost to park your car near Yankee Stadium?

Chuck345
4 years 7 months ago

I highly doubt Steinbrenner would have made the same decisions as Moreno.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah he would. The demographics and culture are completely different.

Chuck345
4 years 7 months ago

I highly doubt Steinbrenner would have made the same decisions as Moreno.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

By my estimations, taking into account arb numbers, the Angels are going to be close to or possibly even exceed their opening day payroll of last year.

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
4 years 7 months ago

who thinks halos should trade for Jose Bautista to play 3B?

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Considering he’s probably coming off of his best season ever and will most likely NEVER repeat it, now wouldn’t be the time to trade for him.

Lunchbox45
4 years 7 months ago

Your comment only makes sense if the Angels trade for him as a 50+ HR hitter and give up prospects according to that price. Just because he put up those numbers last year doesn’t mean anyone believes that he can maintain it. He’s worth what someone is prepared to pay.

I think if the Angels call the Jays and say any 3 prospects outside of the top 3 ( Trout, Chatwood, Segura) thats a pretty good deal for both the halos and jays.

Something like Walden, Richards and Cowart.. Maybe throw in Wood… Wow wood is a throw in now, how sad.

Even if bautista hits 40 HR’s, he’s going in to FA so the Jays wouldnt have made that bad of a deal.. if he hits 16 HR’s the Halos didn’t give up that much

Lunchbox45
4 years 7 months ago

Your comment only makes sense if the Angels trade for him as a 50+ HR hitter and give up prospects according to that price. Just because he put up those numbers last year doesn’t mean anyone believes that he can maintain it. He’s worth what someone is prepared to pay.

I think if the Angels call the Jays and say any 3 prospects outside of the top 3 ( Trout, Chatwood, Segura) thats a pretty good deal for both the halos and jays.

Something like Walden, Richards and Cowart.. Maybe throw in Wood… Wow wood is a throw in now, how sad.

Even if bautista hits 40 HR’s, he’s going in to FA so the Jays wouldnt have made that bad of a deal.. if he hits 16 HR’s the Halos didn’t give up that much

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Bautista was a below average third baseman, defensively. I think he’s pretty much only a part time third baseman.

Lunchbox45
4 years 7 months ago

still better than what they have.

4 years 7 months ago

Yes, the Angels payroll will be more than last season so Arte isn’t cheaping out and remember they will have Dan Haren and Kendry Morales for a full season (hopefully) which should make them an improved from last season. Also the bullpen will be better as well with the two signings. The Rangers lost Cliff Lee and basically traded Vlad for Beltre so they won’t be any better. I think the Angels will be right there.

Looking ahead to next season, the Angels free up $34.1 million when Kazmir and Gary Matthews Jr., Juan Rivera and Rodney’s contracts expire. Plus they have an option on Abreu to free up another $8 mil. This offseason won’t be the big one for the Halos. It’s going to be next year.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He sure isn’t cheap, he just has a lot of money tied up in mediocre players.

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

Finally, someone who managed to see past what they Angels missed out on, instead of what they have. And yeah, I’m psyched for both next season and offseason.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

This team still consists of almost every player who contributed to the Angels scoring a franchise record 883 Runs in 2009.

4 years 7 months ago

Beltre for Vlad is hardly an even trade-off. Beltre gives the Rangers a solid defensive third baseman, and did you see Vlad’s second-half numbers last season after a great first half? Not very pretty. Beltre is going to another hitter’s park and has hit better historically on the road. The addition of Beltre and subtraction of Vlad is a plus for the Rangers. I agree losing Lee hurt, but they were 6 games in front last year before they even got Lee and can go out and get another starter at the trade deadline if they need one.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

I was going to get into most of what you said but I chose not to. I’m glad someone else recognized that there really isn’t much of an even trade there.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

Vladdy is a much more menacing presence than Adrian Beltre. He’s still the freak that can hit anything from head to toe. That alone would give the Angels the advantage if they brought Vladdy back.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

I watched the World Series… I saw nothing really menacing about Vlad. Especially in the field.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

There was nothing menacing about the Rangers’ offense in the World Seres in general either was there? You can talk all you want to about their lineup, big spending, and all that BS, but in the end it’s about who has the best pitching, and who gets hot at the right time.

4 years 7 months ago

Beltre (.321/28HR/102 RBI/84 R)
Vlad (.300/29 HR/115 RBI/83 R)

That’s a pretty even trade offensively as both played in hitter’s park. Yes, Beltre is a upgrade defensively, but its not like the Rangers were really hurting at third for defense. Also, Beltre is going back to the AL West where he struggled where he never hit better than .276.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

His home games were at Safeco…

4 years 7 months ago

Where your home games are should only effect stuff like amount of HR’s and doubles, not the career BA number.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He’s clearly a pull hitter. It’s easy to make outs on balls pulled to left when the field is massive.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He’s clearly a pull hitter. It’s easy to make outs on balls pulled to left when the field is massive.

4 years 7 months ago

What about the rest of their Careers? Vladdy with his .320 Career BA against Beltre’s .275 BA with his to good years and .261 with out. I can not compare the rest of the numbers off the top of my head but I know Vladdy will be on top in most if not every stat. So no it was not a fair trade.

4 years 7 months ago

Ok? You forget to mention Vladdy is now an old man while Beltre is not. Good going.

4 years 7 months ago

Ok? You forget to mention Vladdy is now an old man while Beltre is not. Good going.

0bsessions
4 years 7 months ago

“Beltre is a upgrade defensively”

This is the definition of understatement. Beltre is one of the best defenders in the game, Vlad is one of the worst. That’s like saying Jim Thome is an even trade off for Albert Pujols.

And yes, the Rangers were hurting for third base defense, Young is widely considered a pretty bad fielder at this point.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

Agreed. The upgrade defensively is pretty big.

Offensively – I’d bet money that Vlad outperforms Beltre. Not by much but it will be better.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

Beltre + Young is reasonably estimated to generate 6 WAR (assuming Young moves to DH).

Young + Vlad is reasonably estimated to generate 5 WAR.

Net difference of 1 win, additional salary = $10m, additional long term risk = through the roof.

That’s what people mean by a trade off.

4 years 7 months ago

he culd get david wright if we wanted to,give them whoever they want throw in aybar and put callaspo and shortstop with izturis

4 years 7 months ago

or go for a package deal too,
David wright
Jose Reyes or beltran for
Aybar
trumbo
maybe kazmir
mike napoli
……
jst a wild idea,dont judge me for it though

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Not judging, just giving my opinion… if it’s going to be for Reyes AND Wright, Trout would almost have to be included.

Shikikazu
4 years 7 months ago

It’d probably be Trout and Conger + 1B prospect and 1 C prospect for Wright alone while Reyes will take 1 blue chipper and maybe 2 C’s

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Yep. It makes more sense for the Angels to hold on to what they have prospect wise.

firstavenger
4 years 7 months ago

uhhh….no.

4 years 7 months ago

good point there,well just wright then,and go back for vladdy daddy again,i thiink he desserves to retire as an angel wat do you guys think?

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

Wright would certainly be a nice addition to any ball club in need of a third baseman I’m just no so sure the Mets want to deal him. They most likely will try to build around him. Vlad would be great with the Angels as long as he’s healthy but the question is do the Angels want Abreu in the OF and Vlad as their DH?

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

Vlad would be sweet if the Angels needed an aging, mediocre fielder who can basically only play Dh. We already have enough of that haha, abreu, rivera. what we need is a leadoff man. But i guess Vlad would really help Angels offense. I personally like Vlad, but man, can’t help but notice that the Angels are turning away from something that helped win the West and even the World Series, playing small ball, excellent defense, excellent baserunning, and good pitching.

4 years 7 months ago

imagine if the world and heaven would come our way and we get hanley ramirez or however you spell it lol

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

or get jose reyes next year with their huge cap space. *fingers crossed*

4 years 7 months ago

i know off topic but why havnt the angels brought up trevor wreckling yet?

halos1
4 years 7 months ago

he was called up from aa to aaa last year and he was absolutely terrible. couldn’t throw a strike, so he got demoted back down to aa

firstavenger
4 years 7 months ago

hate to be “that guy”, but it’s RECKLING… :)

4 years 7 months ago

yeah true but if i had to choose i wuld pick up wright,but then again thats my opinion,but as we all know even though reagins shows he doesnt get it done,for some reason he pulls up something out of nowhere,lets hope he does

4 years 7 months ago

i’d rather have David wright overJose reyes,reyes was injured and you have wright for 2 guaranteed years and he’s young,but what do i know im just a fan not a GM lol

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

LOl yeah agreed, but reyes can come without Angels giving up anybody significant, we probably would have to trade either Weaver or at least Santana for Wrigt.

BK
4 years 7 months ago

Weaver is a top pitcher in the AL. He is more valuable than wright and more importantly the Mets would want controlled pitchers likely pre-arb years. It would take mesa-martinez, Trevor Bell and likely someone from the 2009 class.

Pete
4 years 7 months ago

Honestly, with full seasons from Haren, Morales and Collaspo, they will be just fine. Manny and Thome are still out there and easy to get, its very premature to act like the Angels wont contend in 2011. Im an A’s fan and think its very even between the non-Seattle teams in the AL West.

4 years 7 months ago

I don’t EVER for any reason want Manny on my team.

tbell11
4 years 7 months ago

the only player i would like the Angels to sign would be Scott Podsednik

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

agreed, i just hope arte doesn’t let all the talk about his lousy offseason force him into giving a mediocre player a bad contract, because there is absolutely nobody left save Damon and Pods, who could help the Angels next season

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He’s used to that.

dc21892
4 years 7 months ago

He’s used to that.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

You serious?

Now we can have 3 poor defenders manning LF?

Angelsfan1066
4 years 7 months ago

The angels need to trade for a hitter to back up morales right now they will not beat out texas

cookmeister
4 years 7 months ago

the rangers this entire decade has had a good offense, but very suspect pitching and were always down towards the bottom of the division…… while their pitching is terrible now, can they really count on repeat years from Lewis, Wilson, and Hunter? And Webb has thrown like 2 innings in the past 2 years, so he is no sure thing. i guess all im saying is that Texas has historically had a good offense, but that did not make them into big time players. and im not saying they wont be good (cuz they obviously have good talent), just it isnt as clear cut as it seems

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

The Rangers lineup isn’t that great. 787 Runs is hardly dominant. That’s barely above what the Angels averaged from 2005-2008. You forget that most of the players that contributed to the Angels scoring a franchise record 883 Runs are still there. They had a down year because the young guys were called on to step forward, but it didn’t quite work because they were dependent on Vladdy. Josh Hamilton is a total injury liability; they don’t have a leadoff hitter; the bottom third of their order has no production; almost all their production comes from the 2-6 spots. That’s not enough. Considering that the Angels current roster has already shown they are capable of (2009), it’s going to come down to who has the best pitching.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, like that guy who scored over a hundred runs is still there. Wait, he signed with the Mariners. Then there’s the guy who drove in 103 runs… except he’s now 37.

I’m not entire sure what “787 Runs is hardly dominant” means when it’s the 5th best in baseball and the top 3 came from the AL East.

Buddy, at this point you’re just pointing out potential flaws with the Rangers while ignoring potential flaws with the Angels. This is not your 2009 Angels.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

That’s coming out of your keyboard.

There is no clear cut pick in any Division in MLB.

8 teams have won the World Series in 10 years.

Baseball is as competitive as it’s been in 20 years.

ryankrol
4 years 7 months ago

And your comment still doesn’t change the fact that most of the players from 2009 are still on the team. They’ve shown what they can do. There’s a reason people pay attention to 3 year averages.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 7 months ago

“That’s coming out of your keyboard.”

What? Facts? First off I never have said the Rangers are a clear cut pick in the division. But I seriously think it’s a race between the Rangers and Athletics.

There’s a reason why an offense starts to falter when you lose a speedy slick hitting leadoff hitter and the guys driving in the runs are aging. Major variables have changed. This is not the 2009 Angels.

cookmeister
4 years 7 months ago

i would like to see the angels trade for Reyes, granted they get a window to have extension talks… not sure what it would take, but what about something like Aybar + Reckling + another prospect???? the mets need SP, maybe they would take on Kazmir???

tbell11
4 years 7 months ago

All Angel fans would want that but the Mets wont. I think the Angels should trade away Mike Napoli for Grady Sizemore.

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

napoli for sizemore? pull the trigger bro

Angelsfan1066
4 years 7 months ago

Clevland is in the rebuilding stage and would not want mike napoli they would want prospects

Jonathan Stone
4 years 7 months ago

A great deal if we could swing it, but Nap would have to play 1B as the Indians already fleeced the Dodgers for the Catching stud Carlos Santana.

Pete
4 years 7 months ago

Cleveland would never accept that deal. If they Angels want a known star player, they are going to have to give up Trout, then they could get almost anyone they wanted.

bjsguess
4 years 7 months ago

That would not be a good trade for either team.

Sizemore is controlled for 2 years (1 of which is a club option). The guy has played 139 games over the past 2 years and is no lock for health this year.

If you are trading Napoli for ML talent then you need someone you can count on in 2011. Sizemore is not that guy.

As others mentioned Cleveland has no need for Napoli.

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

Someone already mentioned it but, they are the least likely team in the majors to trade for a catcher because of Carlos Santana.

Angelsfan1066
4 years 7 months ago

I agree there definitely going to compete for the division but as of right now i think there missing a key piece