Red Sox Receive Chris Carpenter, PTBNL From Cubs For Epstein, PTBNL

The Red Sox received 26-year-old righty reliever Chris Carpenter and a player to be named later from the Cubs as compensation for Theo Epstein and a player to be named later, announced the teams today.  The Cubs hired Epstein as their president of baseball operations in October, despite one year remaining on his contract as Boston's GM.  Nearly four months after that announcement, Epstein and new Cubs GM Jed Hoyer reached a compensation agreement with former colleague and new Red Sox GM Ben Cherington.  Epstein said in a statement:

"I am relieved that this process is over and particularly pleased that the teams were able to reach agreement on their own without intervention from MLB.  I truly hope and believe that this resolution will benefit both clubs, as well as Chris, who is an extremely talented reliever joining a great organization at a time when there's some opportunity in the major league bullpen.  More than anything, I'm excited that we can all move forward and focus exclusively on getting ready for the season.  I wish Chris and the Red Sox nothing but the best in 2012 and beyond."

Carpenter, who made his big league debut with the Cubs last year, was recently ranked 13th on their prospect list by Baseball America.  The Cubs converted Carpenter to relief late in 2010, and he averaged 96.5 miles per hour on his fastball in the Majors last year.  His command and control are works in progress, but Baseball America thinks he could develop into a setup man.  The Red Sox placed Bobby Jenks on the 60-day DL to create a 40-man roster spot for Carpenter.

The inclusion of two players to be named later means this saga has not quite reached its conclusion, but an April 15th deadline is already in place and Cherington expects resolution by the end of spring training.  The Cubs also owe compensation to the Padres for Hoyer, which Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune notes will get done very soon and will not involve anyone on the team's 40-man roster.

WEEI's Alex Speier first reported the Red Sox would receive a pitcher from the Cubs' 40-man roster.


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172 Comments on "Red Sox Receive Chris Carpenter, PTBNL From Cubs For Epstein, PTBNL"


Ben Wenger
3 years 5 months ago

As a Cubs fan, that seems like a fair price to pay.

Houston_Astros
3 years 5 months ago

No it isn’t.  It doesn’t really matter, though.  Congratulations on a great executive at a ridiculously cheap price.

ophaq2
3 years 5 months ago

Can’t disagree.  If the Sox would have held Theo and said they wanted something more significant, the Cubs would have paid it.  But they let him walk before the deal was done and that is their mistake.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 Getting a 25% off coupon at the Cubs team store would have been more than enough for Theo. I love this notion that the Red Sox were really upset that he left. Theo hasn’t been a good GM in about 8 years, and the Cubs taking him off our hands a year early was the greatest compensation of all.

Houston_Astros
3 years 5 months ago

Wow. That’s a strange thought. Lol.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 Anyone paying attention in Boston the past several years knows I’m right. 😛

Neil Tatro
3 years 5 months ago

u mad??

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 Oh dang did I stumble onto reddit?

vtadave
3 years 5 months ago

I’d take 2 titles in 8 years.

– Pirates and Royals fans

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 2004 was all Theo. I graciously give him genius status before the 2004-2005 offseason.

2007 was in spite of him though.

3 years 5 months ago

Right.  So Ellsbury, Papelbon, Masterson, Pedroia, Lowrie have all been awful draft picks.  And the quality of those shipped off to net V Mart, A Gon, and Beckett were garbage, too, right?  He most definitely should have seen Carl Crawford’s uncharacteristic and unpredictable aberration of a season, right?  You pointing to Dice-K?  Got it.  Missed.  Seems like you’re not paying attention to how you’ve gotten the foundation for the majority of your wins.  They’ve been the picks of your ex-gm, or they’ve come via trade because he’s drafted well enough to warrant a swap of theirs for yours.  Keep complaining, brosef.  Sounds more like you’re embittered than factually sound.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

Draft picks? You can’t judge a GM on his draft picks. That’s a huge organizational process. You judge a GM on his trades and FA signings. So let’s address your points:

V Mart: He played well in a season and a half with few ultimate results. He now “plays” (though not this season) for the Tigers while Masterson, who we traded for him, pitched 216 innings of 3.68 SIERA ball for the Indians last season, who have him through the next three seasons.

A Gon: Jed Hoyer was drooling over Rizzo and Kelly. This would’ve gotten done with even OWNERSHIP at the helm.

Beckett: The trade that sent 2007 ALCS MVP Josh Beckett and 2007 World Series MVP Mike Lowell to Boston was engineered by ownership and Ben Cherington during Theo Epstein’s little hissy fit hiatus from the Red Sox. Who knows if Theo could’ve pulled that off.

Carl Crawford: Who on earth gives $142 million to a player who’s never had over 20 home runs and whose steals are ready to steadily decline?  Crawford had ONE season with an OPS over 120 in his career, and it was his contract year.

Let’s look at Dice-K, the failure to extend Orlando Cabrera and instead sign Edgar Renteria, the miserable trade for Eric Gagne (that David Murphy kid sure is playing well for Texas! Say, couldn’t we use a corner outfielder?), the trade of Bronso Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena, the signing of Julio Lugo, and the contract Theo gave to JD Drew?

EDIT: How did I forget JOHN LACKEY??? A.k.a. the reason we couldn’t make budget space to add a starting pitcher this offseason.

All that happened since 2004. Theo made some brilliant moves to set up the 2004 World Series, but after that there was very little that has me signing the praises of Theo.

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

In hindsight your right about Julio,Edgar, Gagne, and Wily Mo, and Masterson Thats about it though. So first off GM’s are a huge part of making picks/drafting/farm, so he is entitled to as much credit as anyone. Secondly CC is is one year in and has hit double digit homeruns. In fact he hit double digit last year in a down season. He bounces back all is well. Three Drew pretty much earned his deal. It wasn’t pretty but he played well enough. Fourth Beltre was a huge steal that season for us, and as much as Victor was a temporary part of the team he was good while he was here so the trade was not bad it was just short term versus long term. He was what we needed at the time. Theo has overseen the saving of a ton of money in locking up Buc, Lester, Pedroia, Youk, and Ortiz through their prime years. He has also made good trades beyond 04 for example acquiring Ramon Ramirez/Jason Bay & Adrian (Which we have unquestionably won). Add two titles that he brought to fruition 04 (Almost an entire starting roster assembly minus trot, Lowe, Manny,Pedro) and 07 with Dice-K (Who believe it or not helped alot), Jacoby, and Pedroia.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 Theo wasted any money he saved by extending the young players. Over 26 million dollars are committed to John Lackey and Dice-K this season, who both will miss the entire season. That 26 million could’ve bought a front-line starter and a big bat that could’ve made the Red Sox the uncontested favorites for this season.

(Also, I made a minor typo about Crawford that I fixed: I meant he had never hit 20+ homers in a season. Sorry about that.)

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

Lackey pitched well his first season, then played last season with nagging injuries that turned out to be serious. Dice-K will be back at the break. You take Dice-K away we might not have won the 07 WS. So SP this year without a 07 title or wait a season. I’ll wait the season with what is still an incredibly good team. 

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

You have a curious definition of “pitched well.” Lackey’s ERA in 2010 was his worsrt since 2004 and his WHIP was his worst in his career (numbers that SEEM amazing in comparison to his 2011 stats.

His K numbers have been below his career norms with Boston and went down more last season. We’re paying him like a #2 and he’s pitching like a passable number 4 at his BEST. Last season he was one of the worst pitchers who qualified and also his off-the-field issues didn’t exactly endear him.

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

And no there is no way he wasted all that money. At the time Ortiz was due for his first big deal he could have asked for  like 100M and probably got it. Pedroia is another one that if left to normal control would easily go 100M plus once he hit FA. Ditto Lester. And Ditto Youk. So I don’t think 185M eats up what is probably 300M in savings. 

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 He wasted it on people like Lackey, Crawford, and Dice-K. That’s like buying a cost-efficient automobile just to spend the savings from gas money on bricks to weigh down the trunk.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 He wasted it on people like Lackey, Crawford, and Dice-K. That’s like buying a cost-efficient automobile just to spend the savings from gas money on bricks to weigh down the trunk.

Nick Herrin
3 years 5 months ago

No I completely agree. Carl Crawford has never had double digit home run numbers.
Except in 2004 when he had 11.
 Or in 2005 when he had 15.
 
Or in 2006 when he had 18.

 Or in 2007 when he had 11.

 Or in 2009 when he had 15.

Or in 2010 when he had 19.

Or this year with the Red Sox when he had 11.

Im not defending the decision, at the time they were still overpaying him. But Crawford was going to get a huge contract from someone. In fact, what long term contract DOES look good?

Red Sox fans are complaining that their team has been inactive this offseason, but long term deals for big free agents rarely pan out.

The only teams that can afford them are big markets like Boston, so you cant blame Theo for taking a risk. Small market teams like St. Louis and Tampa Bay win by locking up players while they are young (Pujols’ first extension, Evan Longoria,) and then let them walk when they hit free agency. The Red Sox do not have to develop as many players and take risks on extensions because they can pay hefty prices for FA’s. It’s that simple.

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

We developed lots of players in spite of the neeed actually. Paps, Lester, Youk, Pedroia, Bard, Ells, Buc. And we got Lester, Youk, Pedroia, and Buc super discounted through their prime years. But I do agree about the free agency part. Anyone dabbling in that market will eventually get bit signing people to huge contracts. The very nature of tha market is that your typically signing a great player already progressed into his prime or past it for big years/dollars. Its like a casino. Best you can hope for is that it mostly pays off. 

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

We developed lots of players in spite of the neeed actually. Paps, Lester, Youk, Pedroia, Bard, Ells, Buc. And we got Lester, Youk, Pedroia, and Buc super discounted through their prime years. But I do agree about the free agency part. Anyone dabbling in that market will eventually get bit signing people to huge contracts. The very nature of tha market is that your typically signing a great player already progressed into his prime or past it for big years/dollars. Its like a casino. Best you can hope for is that it mostly pays off. 

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 That was a typo on my part about Crawford. I meant he had never had 20+ homers.

I would much rather have seen the Sox add Matt Holliday instead of Lackey and then at least they would have been overpaying for someone with more sustainable talent. As soon as Crawford’s legs give out, he’ll be totally worthless, so the loss of the 2011 campaign is a HUGE hit. Should’ve let the Angels have him instead of taking the bait the Yankees laid out.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 That was a typo on my part about Crawford. I meant he had never had 20+ homers.

I would much rather have seen the Sox add Matt Holliday instead of Lackey and then at least they would have been overpaying for someone with more sustainable talent. As soon as Crawford’s legs give out, he’ll be totally worthless, so the loss of the 2011 campaign is a HUGE hit. Should’ve let the Angels have him instead of taking the bait the Yankees laid out.

3 years 5 months ago

Agreed.  I’m pretty sure that KarKat is simply upset that Theo didn’t draft as wisely as Friedman and missed on a couple free agents.  It is the Rays that keep stealing the Red Sox’s post season thunder, right?  That said, I’m not going to try to thumb my nose at Ellsbury, Pedroia, Bucholz, et al.  It is the GM who hires his staff, right? To help him evaluate talent…? 

Leonard Washington
3 years 5 months ago

Theo takes part in the evaluation process/drafting/everything.He even flies down to certain hard to sign players houses to talk them into it. And given the fact that winning teams typically get bottom of the barrell picks his draft history is amazing. And we still have a great farm with tons of quality guys in the low minors and three in the top 100 overall. 

3 years 5 months ago

That resonates with my thinking.  Irrespective to his free agency efficiency, he’s built a solid foundation, which is something the Cubs sorely need.  Routingback to the initial point, as a BoSox fan, I’d be gratefulthat there was some kind of significant compensation. The man was the brains behind the operation.  You don’t let him walk for free.

PWNdroia
3 years 5 months ago

 I couldn’t agree more, though I was hoping we got something more impressive.

Clark_N_Addison
3 years 5 months ago

So what are the Astros going to send to St. Louis as compensation for hiring Luhnow?

David Jackson
3 years 5 months ago

as if there’s something they’d want?

Rangersfan32
3 years 5 months ago

They want the Astros to lose every game to them the next two years. Although its not reported because the Astros were well on their way to making that happen anyways.

johnsmith4
3 years 5 months ago

It will be tough for Bud Selig to figure this one out.  St. Louis already has Chris Carpenter.

cubs223425
3 years 5 months ago

Well, it’s unfair that they had to give up a good player when it wasn’t a lateral move. He was offered a promotion, so I think it was totally reasonable that a PTBNL was enough on its own.

With Hoyer, at least his makes sense because he didn’t get a promotion.

Matt
3 years 5 months ago

Not a lateral move? LOL The Cubs are the only team in baseball with the position that Theo filled. They basically made that position up. It really wasn’t that much of a promotion. If it wa then why had Theo been the one announcing deals this offseason and not Hoyer?

supercapo
3 years 5 months ago

 The Cubs are the only team in baseball that has a position called President of Baseball Operations? Isn’t that Lucchino’s position in Boston?

supercapo
3 years 5 months ago

In spite of the people the Cub’s front office have hired this off-season, they still have one of the smallest front offices in baseball. So I don’t see how they are creating positions to steal other team’s executives.

PWNdroia
3 years 5 months ago

 Or a mediocre executive at a cheap price.

CyYoungSuppan
3 years 5 months ago

Dangit!  I wanted to make that comment, Jaysfan!

notsureifsrs
3 years 5 months ago

PTBNL is garza

– WEEI

MonsterPike
3 years 5 months ago

Ha ha… Now we gotta speculate all season on who the PTBNL is going to be…  

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 I excpect both PTBNLs to be Chris Carpenter. Just make him bounce back and forth and have everything be even.

flickadave
3 years 5 months ago

And Jon Heyman is reporting that the PTBNL going from Boston to the Cubs is Lackey…

Manfrenjensen
3 years 5 months ago

Both Carpenter and the PTBNL should be considered a bonus — the real compensation for the Red Sox was the Yankees’ hiring of Jim Hendry.

Travis White
3 years 5 months ago

As a Cardinals fan, the moment of immediate fear and confusion reading this headline brings is monumental.

3 years 5 months ago

 Nice!

JB3
3 years 5 months ago

About time!  I’m curious about what opportunity in the bullpen Theo’s talking about though, if anything there are already too many pitchers fighting for bullpen roles with Miller, Bowden, and Doubront out of options.

MonsterPike
3 years 5 months ago

And a PTBNL???  Why?  Carpenter is absolutely too much… 

Fangaffes
3 years 5 months ago

PTBNLs are generally chosen from a small pool.  One team’s pool will have better prospects than the other, in order to even the trade up.

MonsterPike
3 years 5 months ago

 Well I understand that… but initially it looked as though only the Red Sox were getting the PTBNL, thus my initial reaction to Carpenter & another for Epstein, but now I see the Cubs are getting one back as well.

MonsterPike
3 years 5 months ago

 Well I understand that… but initially it looked as though only the Red Sox were getting the PTBNL, thus my initial reaction to Carpenter & another for Epstein, but now I see the Cubs are getting one back as well.

jed_hoyer
3 years 5 months ago

 the red sox think they got the other chris carpenter

JB3
3 years 5 months ago

Anyone know how many options he has left?

Bo Shi
3 years 5 months ago

Fair. Carpenter has a big fastball that will give him a good shot at being a solid set-up man in the near future. Curious about the PTBNL though…I think Carpenter is enough, personally.

philpbarnes
3 years 5 months ago

All that waiting for a 25 year old who stunk at AAA last year?

Yay. 

😉

101andCounting
3 years 5 months ago

I saw Carpenter’s appearances with the big league club last year, and while he looks a little rough around the edges, I do think he’ll mature into a pretty solid 8th-inning guy. I’m disappointed to have lost him. Why couldn’t you guys take Scott Maine instead?

ophaq2
3 years 5 months ago

Fair price.  Not an overpay like I was afraid of and if Carpenter ever makes it to the Major league level, it wouldn’t be expected he’d be some sort of difference maker.  

Adil
3 years 5 months ago

its a nothing compensation, MLB didnt want to set a standard for outlandish comp. On the other hand by doing so it would have prevented poaching.

EarlyMorningBoxscore
3 years 5 months ago

Chances he makes the bullpen out of spring training? 

Daniel Han
3 years 5 months ago

 100%

jesse heiman
3 years 5 months ago

Can the ptbnl be Steve bartman?

johnsilver
3 years 5 months ago

They still got almost nothing. hope Lucchino learned his lesson from Rickets: his word = *0* as good compensation, when the GM/president would just break it anyway.

Edit:

Looks like an Alex Wilson type who has already failed at being a SP.

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 I still say it was a steal for the Sox. Can you imagine the awful deals Theo would’ve made so far if he were still with the Sox?

notsureifsrs
3 years 5 months ago

david dejesus >> cody ross

Karkat
3 years 5 months ago

 Agreed, but I’m not convinced Theo would’ve gotten him for the Sox.

CaptainPlanet54
3 years 5 months ago

Pretty sure Cubs will be getting a PTBNL as well.

kevinfoley46
3 years 5 months ago

Going off of the previous reports that the comissioners office wanted to give the Red Sox a lot to keep executives from moving teams…..i don’t think this is going to have that effect.

3 years 5 months ago

At all times, try to remember the name of this website.

Tko11
3 years 5 months ago

So we wait this long to see what the compensation is and they give up Carpenter AND a player to be named later AGAIN? I wonder how long this will take.

slashieboy .
3 years 5 months ago

Not sure they would have liked the other Carpenter either, move him to the AL East with his salaray plus the lux tax and thats not a good deal at all.