Where Will Atlanta Find A Bat?

I'd rather have Ibanez than Rivera. Raul's a lefty, but his production doesn't fall off vs. LH pitching. The advantage Rivera offers is youth (and probably a lower contract), but a shaky track record.

I'd keep an eye on the Marlins. Willingham is arb-eligible and would be a nice addition. The Braves have prospects at several positions that could help.

Or if Wren wants to make a big splash, Abreu could be picked up as a FA (as Bowman noted) or Magglio Ordonez by trade. They'll command big salaries but bringing them on board should not be a big risk.

does anyone have any ideas on who we will pick up if we dont sign burrell? i heard on tv during the game that maybe dobbs slides to left..i dnt know about that one..i hoping they make some FA moves, but ya never know..any serious ideas on who the next gm will be?

"They could use an outfielder or three."

That pretty much sums it up.

Unfortunately we'll be forced to watch Francoeur "bounce back" in 2009 to the tune of .260/.330/.420. Yay.

How do Braves fans feel about a trade with the Yanks?

Johnny Damon, Shelly Duncan and a low level pitching prospect like Chase Wright or Jeff Marquiz

for

Casey Kotchman

Damon can play LF. He could be their lead off hitter and would provide speed (The Braves SB leader only had 13 steals where as Damon had 29).

Shelly is more of a throw in to replace Kotchman but still has upside. I feel the Yanks never committed to giving him at bats.

Kotchman would be the low cost 1B they need. He hit very well with the Angels b4 traded to the Braves.

What do Braves fans feel?

"What do Braves fans feel?"

Sounds like a typical NYY trade scenario where NYY gets something for nothing....

We already have one sub .300 OBP guy in Francoeur we dont need another. Kotchman could be moved, but not for Damon. I dont think the Braves would want to pay Damon's salary given his age and he's slowly breaking down. He does still put up good numbers, but his best days are behind him. Nady for Kotch, would be an interesting trade offer.

If the Tigers make him available, I could see Wren go after Mags to fill the outfield void. Put together a package of sayyy Brandon Jones, Lillibridge, & Jojo Reyes for him, maybe throw in someone else, but I could see that as a deal that may work for both teams..

Another senario could be trading for Jose Guillen. With Dayton Moore's ties to ATL, and all the rumors about Francoeur, maybe they send Frenchy & jojo to KC in exchange... Maybe they even sweeten the deal (b.jones, lillibridge, sammons, or a pitching prospect or 2??) to get Guillen & a pitcher (Meche, Grenke)??

Whats everyone think about that?

Damon's nothing?

He hit .303 w/ 168 hits, 27 dbls, 17 hrs, 71 rbis, 95 runs scored and obp of .375.

The only reason why I suggested it was because we have a glut of older OF's and we need a 1B solution if we cant sign Tex.

I like Kotchman as a 1B solution but keep in mind in 152 at bats he only hit 4 dbls, 2 hrs and batted .231

Now obviously since I want Kotchman I think those numbers will get better but if Atlanta were thinking of trading him what could they get?

Nady would be overpaying for Kotchman.

"What do Braves fans feel?"

I feel like we wouldn't have a first baseman if we traded Kotchman (who is controlled cheaply for several years). Shelly Duncan?!?

The Braves need a power bat in the OF, not Damon. Damon would be an upgrade over Blanco or Anderson, but they're both making the ML minimum, not a gazillion bucks a year. That money would be much better spent on a Burrell-type or SP.

You know what? I retract that trade. The Braves are rebuilding , not trying to compete for the playoffs next year. It would make more sense to build around Kotchman rather than trade him for a proven vet who would be productive but would probably NOT contrbute to their movement 2 or 3 yeasr down the road if they were ready to compete.

My bad......

But I think the Yanks would be smart to hold on to Nady and build the outfield around him, especially since Matsui and Damon will probably be allowed to walk after the 09 season.

Also I don't think the Braves would consider trading Kotchman at this time unless he's an essential part of a blockbuster deal. W/o him, they're shopping for another 1B too.

That is a bad deal Damon & Shelly +1 for Kotchman.

Shelly is not a good hitter yes he gets his occasional HR but he doesn't get on base too much plus he hasn't proven anything in the majors.

Damon is good but for that price its not worth his terrible throwing arm and he can't play CF anymore which would put him at LF plus he is getting old he's not on Braves wishlist.

I would like to sign 2 starting pitchers 1. Derek Lowe, 2, Jon Garland I think the Braves can get them but other teams will be willing to overpay *cough* Yankees, Mets, so it will be difficult to sign those two if money will be tight.

One big bat: I don't like Burrell's defense and he does bring a good bat he will likely seek big money and a 4 year deal. Abreu is another option but he is not worth 16 million dollars if he is willing to take a paycut then it would be far less per year.

Trades are always an option too.

kidlax17- NO WAY that package you mentioned comes even close to netting Greinke or even Meche. Francouer and JoJo for Guillen makes sense though.

I think Blanco or Josh Anderson will have to stay at CF. I know the Braves traded him, but would they be interested in possibly bringing back Mark Kotsay? He would make sense in RF (or CF with Francoeur in right). They apparently liked him when they gave up Devine for him.

LF will be the for the big bop. I could see a Magglio trade, but I doubt the Braves are giving up Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, or Freeman.

So would it be safe to say that if the Braves were after a bat it would have to be someone under 27 or 28 who could be productive this year and still contribe when the team is rebuilt and ready to compete?

Why would the Braves trade Frenchy for Guillen?

Maybe they'll ask Sheff back too.

I heard John Rocker is pretty good.

Kidlax17, I think you're onto something with the Mags part of your post.

YanksFan, Maybe you should look at any of Nady's career before last year before you talk about building an outfield around him.

aap212:

I know this is first really big year, but at 29 he's one of the youngest players on our team. We traded a highly regarded prospect for him in tabata and i think the yanks should try and build around him as one of their corners. Matsui and Damon are both free agents next year and Abreu may or may not be brought back this year. Why not hold on to him. he had a very productive year, even with the fall off in bavg since being traded to the yanks. And I'm well aware of Nady and have followed him since he was in the Padres organization and when we was with the mets before they traded him for Perez. He has a great "pedigree" and the numbers dont surprise anyone who's followed him when he was a highly touted minor leaguer.

169 hits, 37 dbls, 25hrs, 97 rbis, .280 combined bavg is pretty decent.

What would a FA with those numbers get in the open market?

just so you know:

Nady:

Prospect Rankings*
2001 - 82nd ranked Major League prospect
2001 - 7th ranked organizational prospect for San Diego Padres
2002 - 39th ranked Major League prospect
2002 - 4th ranked organizational prospect for San Diego Padres
2003 - 44th ranked Major League prospect
2003 - 1st ranked organizational prospect for San Diego Padres

*According to Baseball America

So should the Braves think about trading Chipper Jones and do a complete rebuilding process? If they are not willing to make the push to sign or trade for the major players that could help them compete with the mets or phillies then why hold on to him? Is it for PR reasons?

Why is no one mentioning the braves going after manny? They have the money, he has what we need, and it would certainly give the fans something to be excited about.

The braves need to be smart about how they use their money.....

As far as our two pitchers go, we need to sign a veteran middle of the order innings eater at a reasonable price, 10-12 mill a year with Garland, Dempster, or Lowe as apossibility. We then need to sign a cheap slugging option....Rivera would be my best guess, but if we sign burrell as a reasonable option that is understandble. My biggest concern is trading... We need to make a blockbuster, but not two or three trades. That blockbuster needs to be for a young starter with front of the line talent....Peavy, Cain, Greinke on one teir, Snell,Olsen, so on at the next. My biggest fear is that if we make a trade for Maggs and a Grienke or Cain, we have definately hindered ourself in the future. So, my opinion would be to sign a veteran starter in garland or lowe, sign rivera on the short term or burrell for the long term, then trade for cain or greinke.

YanksFan:

I seriously doubt they will trade Chipper though I wouldn't say it would be out of the question completely.

Also, for the record, ATL will make a push to bolster the roster.

bravesin09:

No way will ATL get Manny. Can you just imagine him pulling a 'Manny being Manny' with Bobby Cox in charge?

YanksFan, the Braves aren't keeping Chipper around for PR reasons. Maybe it's that whole .364 batting average. Being the league's best hitter. Maybe thats why they haven't tried to deal him.

Atlanta's not necessarily rebuilding. They feel they already have several peices to the puzzle, they just need a couple more to make the puzzle complete, and Frank Wren plans to address that during the offseason.

The article linked to does mention Atlanta going after Manny, but quickly shoots it down, since they have too many needs to tie up such a large portion of their available funds in one player.

The Braves aren't rebuilding... they only need a couple of pieces to get over the threshold and compete next year. Look at their division and tell me they won't be any worse off than the Mets or Phillies if they sign Dunn, Lowe, and an innings eater/Japanese goofball pitcher.

Oh, and I'd rather not sign Rivera. His career OBP is only slightly better Francoeur's, and one low OBP OF is plenty, thanks. Gimmie Dunn and his OBP/40 homer guarantee.

I agree with a few things that have already been mentioned here.

First, I will eat my hat if Manny Ramirez becomes a Brave and then burn my jerseys. I have no interest in tht run-a-muck. And not a chance Bobby puts up with him if he wouldn't deal with Kenny Lofton.

Second, I think our blockbuster should be a trade and I think we should give just about (keep in mind I said JUST ABOUT) anybody the Padres would take for Jake Peavy. He in under control through 2013 and is so for an extremely cheap ransom. I might even let one or two of the untouchables go for him.

Third, if we do so we can still use some lower prospects to get Nelson Cruz. I still don't understand why this kid isn't getting mentioned as trade bait for the Rangers. They alrady have a plethora of you talented outfielders. I think Morton plus a couple others would be plenty to pry him away. And he is young with a ton of upside. I mnea the kid hit 330 with 7 homers during what amounts to the last month and a half of the season. He would be an excellent addition. Thus we have two trades accomplished for the Absolute Ace and a great young power hitting outfielder with a ton of upside without selling off the whole farm and we now have that 45 million to get another great front end guy like Lowe, and maybe even another guy like Dempster or Burnett.

Thus giving us a rotation of
Peavy
Lowe
Dempster, Burnett, etc.
Jurjjens
and the last two spots including Campillo, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Reyes, Morton, Hanson....whoever would fit best that doesnt get traded. That would be pretty fantastic by my standpoint.

Keep in mind in my last post, I'm allowing for six rotation spots to include a long reliever/backup plan, since we will most certainly need one when fillin the blank here gets injured.

Chipper Jones is a free agent (no options left after 09) next year. He's 36 yrs old. Do you think they will resign him if he has another good year in 09 and can't make up the 18 games below .500 and 20 games out of 1st place.

If not and he walks then what are you left with?

I like the idea of Delmon Young for the Braves. A young corner OFer with one of the best arms in baseball and both power and speed. He has improved on his propensity to K and his contact hitting style profiles well in the 2 hole in the NL. I bet he wouldn't cost the Braves the same kind of package the Twins sent to Tampa either.

aap212

I know what CHipper hit last year but there are a lot of teams that trade their top player in the last year of their deal if they don't feel they can or want to resign them. Just asking since I don't follow the Braves as much as you and other braves fans do.

YanksFan, Chipper posted the 2nd best OPS in baseball in '08, has no-trade rights, and is the "face of the franchise."

The Braves feel that the offense was good (high obp, good BA, decent runs scored) in '08, but lacked pop out of the OF.

Anyway, mgmt is not in a rebuilding mode. They want to add a LF, 2 starters (probably will go after Lowe or Dempster, plus a guy like Randy Wolf or Paul Byrd, IMO).

They want to make one more run with the "core" in place (Chipper and Bobby Cox, mainly), and then we have some promising talent coming up in 2010/11.

I'm not saying it's the smartest approach, but pretty sure Chipper will NOT be traded.

Oh, and I think it's understood that as long as Chipper can play pretty regularly, he and the Braves will work out the finances. I don't think there's much fear of "losing him to free agency" in 2010.

If the Braves are looking for a middle of the rotation innings eater that won't cost a lot of money, how much would they be willing to give up for Bronson Arroyo?

YanksFan = "Chipper Jones is a free agent (no options left after 09) next year. He's 36 yrs old. Do you think they will resign him if he has another good year in 09 and can't make up the 18 games below .500 and 20 games out of 1st place. If not and he walks then what are you left with?" Easiest question ever. Yunel @3b, Lillibridge at SS. Thats without any trades or FA's. Besides, inagine your precious Yankees looking at Jeter when his contract is up and saying, "ya know, we think we can do better, so thanks for being here all these years, now hit the road."
Chipper is to the Braves what Jeter is to the Yankees. Yeah, I said it.

Carolina, Arroyo could possibly succeed as a #3 type in Atlanta. I've always been a fan of him, so I wouldn't mind it. No clue what we'd give up though. (would Gonzalez do the trick?)

First let me say this:
Manny aint coming to Atlanta.
Cox would not tolerate his attitude. Yes, Manny has shaped up in LA with Torre but I just dont see him fitting in with the Braves.

I have drawn up two good scenarios which appear to be realistic to me. Let me know what ya'll think.

SCENARIO 1:
Trade: KJ, Morton, Hewyard/Schaffer - Peavy ($10)
-I know Wren said he won't deal one of the big three but this is a great deal for the Bravos. The Padres get the 2B they have been wanting. They get a SP who has the chance to be a #3 guy and a great OF prospect.
Sign: Jon Garland ($10) or Derek Lowe ($15)
Sign: Raul Ibanez ($7)
Sign: Michael Barret ($1.5)
Re-Sign: Hampton to incentive based contract ($1) and Smoltz to a contract ($6) and Ohman ($3)
TOTAL SPENDING: $35-40 MILLION

SCENARIO 2:
Sign: Lowe ($15)
Trade: Lillibridge - Snell ($1)
Sign: AJ Burnett ($12) or Garland ($10)
Sign: Adam Dunn ($15)
Sign: Michael Barret ($1.5)
Trade: KJ - Delmon Young ($1.5)
Re-Sign: Smoltz to a contract ($6) and Ohman ($3)
OVERAL SPENDING: $40-45 MILLION

What about Brian Giles to Atl?

Going into the off-season the Braves have two major weaknesses. Starting Pitching and a Power Outfielder.

Along the way we need to make a few more signing IMHO.

Here is my breakdown for the top position players (Bravos might have interest in).

SP FA'S:
Derek Lowe
Jon Garland
AJ Burnett
Randy Wolf

OF FA's:
Adam Dunn
Raul Ibanez
Pat Burrell
NO INTEREST IN JUAN RIVIERA!

C FA'S:
Michael Barret
Johnny Estrada

PLAYER AVAILABLE VIA TRADE:
Peavy
Maggs
Delmon Young

wow..and they say Yankee fans are unrealistic.

Peavy for a 27 yr old 2B and two prospects, one who think would be a #3 starter?

No way you sign Burnett for $12 mill. That's what he's making already. If he opts out he would want at least 15 mill. And Garland can get at least $13-15 per as well.

An Ibanez was on the cheap the last 2 years @ $5.5 mill. He could probably get at least 10-12 mill after posting .293 w/ 23 hrs , 110 rbis, and a .358 obp. At age 35 this might be his last go round and he'll probably want a deal similar to Abreu (3 yrs/30-35 million

YanksFanSince78 Kelly Johnson is a good 2B and Heyward is a #1 draft pick who has huge potential HR power maybe a Ryan Braun type player and Jordan Schaffer is an up and coming CF prospect who will be a star and although Charlie Morton is not an ace type pitcher he will be a 3 or 4 starter.

for everyone out there who thinks the braves are in a rebuliding mode you could not be more wrong. with kotchman for a full year and mccann and chipper, with escobar having another year under his belt. Jurjjens is going to be cy young material. We have a ton of talent in the minor leagues to play with as trade bait. and 45 million dollars to spend and with the organzation realizing it needs to win they are going to be more aggressive than ever. I see garland singing as a 2-3 guy with a trade for say matt cain to put with garland and jurjjens sign hampton to a 1 year incentive laden deal and you have a solid 4 with the top three being young and under contract for a while. With the possibilty of rivera or ibanez in left i like both rivera has a ton of talent and would come cheap. Ibanez is solid all the way around. you still have money to play with how about signing lowe if available. The braves will be competitive next year and may take the division

1. Anderson
2. rivera
3. jones
4. mccann
5. kotchman
6. franceour
7. johnson
8 escobar

1. cain
2. lowe
3. jurjjens
4. garland
5. hampton

bullpen

ohman (resign)
tavarez (resign)
boyer
moylan
soriano
gonzalez
smoltz

The Braves are NOT trading Chipper. That's absurd.

Nor do they want to trade Kotchman.

And according to FRANK WREN they will not trade any top tier prospects including Schafer, Freeman, Hanson and Heyward.

That being said they are absolutely building to contend next year.

bravesforlife14 I love all your pitching moves! I think that could be a very good rotation. young yet experienced and somethign to work with for the next few years. But why do you elect trading for cain over peavy?

I do NOT like signing of Rivera. He does nothing for the OF. Diaz is just as good if not better. You need a POWER OF such as Dunn, Burrel or Ibanez. I dont think Rivera will put up number better than 10-15 HR's, 60-70 RBI'S. Look he had a great season in '06 and I just think that was a fluke.

Hey YanksFanSince78, The Yankees sure could have used that 27 year old 2B's production this season...amirite?

Attacks on Robinson Cano aside, the bottom line on all these trade scenarios is if the Braves want to trade for a picher of Peavy's caliber they're going to have to trade from their top 5 prospects (Schafer, Hanson, Heyward, Freeman and Teheran) in addition to a player like KJ or Yesco. It sucks that the Braves failed to capitalize on the likes of Brent Lillibridge and Brandon Jones at the peak of their respective values. Those two would have been considered a solid starting point for a trade of that caliber a year ago, but not now.

"Chipper is to the Braves what Jeter is to the Yankees. Yeah, I said it."

Why is that a controversial statement? Chipper is infinitely better than Jeter, who may be the most overrated player of all time.

baleen:

Not to turn this into a Yankee comment section but why the hate on Cano?

Cano: Johnson:

Hits 162 157
Dbls 35 39
Hrs 14 12
Rbis 72 69
Runs 70 86
Bavg .271 .287
OBP .305 .349

In what I would call a bad year for Cano I don't see a big difference in the two players, and Cano turns 26 this month.

Wasn't meant to be hate, I was just having some fun & trying to make the point that KJ is valuable and could be a factor in a trade.. That OBP difference is pretty significant, though...but I know Cano's better than his '08 by a long shot..

Land-Man I wasn't trying to be controversial. I was simply trying to emphasize that Chipper is as good and as valuable to his team as Jeter is.

And YanksFan, you contradict yourself. You're saying that KJ is a bad 2B and it seems you don't deem him worthy of being in a Jake Peavy deal. Then you say he's better than Cano, who I think is a tremendously talented player who had a bad year. Whose side are you on (other than Juan Rivera's)?????

In all honesty, I don't see the Braves infield changing. Escobar and Johnson make a wonderful up the middle duo, Kotchman showed his potential and McCann and Chipper are cornerstones. The outfield however seems like a different story. I could see them going after a younger player like Delmon, Dejesus, Marlon Byrd(an Atl native) or Nick Swisher who no one is talking about but with Chicago's incredible OF depth I could definately see him coming over to a team like Atlanta.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Braves resign Hampton and go after an Oakland starter due to their incredibly deep young pitching. (Greg Smith, Duchscherer, Eveland, Braden, Gallagher, and Gonzalez) maybe a Francoueur deal? Beane is always willing to talk to Atlanta it seems.

Juan Rivera, Juan Cruz, Jeremy Affeldt, Baldelli, Casey Blake, Hinske, and plenty of Japanese players should also be of interest to the Braves I think.

As part of an entertaining exercise, how about Braves fans suggest what they would be willing to give up for Peavy, Cain, or Greinke, and who they would want the most?

Sorry everyone, the Braves don't have the correct pieces it would take to land Matt Cain. It's not the talent level of what they have to give in return, it has everything to do with the Giants needs. First off, the Giants need corner infielders, power, and middle relief. The other need is for Sabean to look after his job. His contract is up after 09' and was basically given a 2 year extension to prove the build around Barry Bonds faided philosophy was not his fault. Year 1 of the project went well, but not well enough. His job right now rests as much on the return he gets for a Matt Cain, or the lack of the trade, as it does holding onto Lincecum, or even getting the team winning again. The AJ-Liriano/Bonsor/Nathan fiasco with the twins still haunts him and, fortunately for Giants fans, gives him pause before pulling the trigger on another deal like that.

It wouldn't even be necessarily for the Braves so called untouchables as it would take a major league ready, long term commitment type player to be involved in the trade. Unless the names are not in the ballpark of Howard, Fielder, Zimmerman, or Wright, you probably don't even get invited to the conference call. And it will only start with those names, not a 1-1 deal. I know it doesn't please the fans of those players/teams, but the reality is Sabean likes his job, has to get max return, doesn't have to trade Matt Cain to hold onto his job, and for these reasons, Matt Cain most likely doesn't get traded...Now, what'll you give them for a Jonathen Sanchez?

Also, for all those who think Jeter is Overvalued/Overrated...You must also think Pete Rose was the most Overrated player of his era also. With the exception of 1 september call up for jeter, both players first full season came at age 22. Now, I'm not saying Jeter will catch Rose, but health and Longevity, and possibly a possition change are all that stand between Jeter and a run on the record. Alot can happen between now and then but how can you call this guy overrated, he's a great hitter, at arguably the hardest position on the field, playing in the hardest city. Not to mention the championships, nor his clutch Octobers.

Jeter Rose
2535 4256 career hits
2535 2337 hits by age 33
206 160 home runs
275 198 stolen bases
1002 1314 rbi's
1467 2165 runs(1217 by age 33)
411 746 doubles
.316 .303 BA
121 118 OPS+
138 107 HBP

I would hope the comparisons speak for themselves but some people will never allow themselves to believe he's that good. (Red Sox fans are allowed an exception)

"Sorry everyone, the Braves don't have the correct pieces it would take to land Matt Cain. It's not the talent level of what they have to give in return, it has everything to do with the Giants needs. First off, the Giants need corner infielders, power, and middle relief. The other need is for Sabean to look after his job. His contract is up after 09' and was basically given a 2 year extension to prove the build around Barry Bonds faided philosophy was not his fault. Year 1 of the project went well, but not well enough. His job right now rests as much on the return he gets for a Matt Cain, or the lack of the trade, as it does holding onto Lincecum, or even getting the team winning again. The AJ-Liriano/Bonsor/Nathan fiasco with the twins still haunts him and, fortunately for Giants fans, gives him pause before pulling the trigger on another deal like that."

Can people cite?

Personally I'm interested in this Brian Sabean insight

First of all, in response to The Juice I think it would be interesting to see what people would put together for Peavy.

However, in an effort of fairness I think two guidelines need to be established. First anyone who wants to respond to this question need look at three things. First, the Bedard deal, second the Haren deal and then Third, the fact that Peavy is better (possibly twice as good) as either or both of them (which is obviously debateable but I think is true) and that he is signed extremely cheaply given his talent through 2013.

Thus here is my compensation package.

Kelly Johnson, Charlie Morton, Cole Rohrbough, Jordan Schafer, Brent Lillibridge.

I think that might get it done. Perhaps it might be "overpaying" a bit, but I think it's pretty fair. That gives the Padres a proven 2B who is solid but not great. His best years are ahead of him. It also gives them a marginal ss prospect with some upside, two great young pitchers with huge upside (one righty one lefty) and a five tool outfielder who could end up being great.

tommy whats the deal with signing Burnett to an extensive long-term deal? I would not sign him for more than 3 years since he has been injury plagued. We don't want another Hampton! I would love to sign Lowe but want him for 3-4 years not a mere two. I think Raul Ibanez would make a fine addition to the team. Although the Aubrey Huff deal is not a bad idea, however I doubt he is on the block. Resign Ohman=Yes, Resign Hamtpon=Yes and No, not for $3 million. Resign Norton=Maybe, I dont think he did anything to deserve a roster spot. He batted .246 but he did crank 7 Homers and 31 RBI's in less than 150 at bats.

bamabosoxfan wrote:

"
And YanksFan, you contradict yourself. You're saying that KJ is a bad 2B and it seems you don't deem him worthy of being in a Jake Peavy deal. Then you say he's better than Cano, who I think is a tremendously talented player who had a bad year. Whose side are you on (other than Juan Rivera's)?????"
______

How in the world did you take from what I said that I thought Cano was a bad player? I love his game and have been defending him on these boards. Someone made a comment alleging that KJ was better and I said that based upon last years stats, Cano was just as good as KJ, and that was considered a "bad" year for Cano. Cano's my boy. I was defending him. And as for KJ I just said that he amd the two or three prospects
that the guy mentioned wouldn't be enough for Peavy.

Go Cano!!

And let me make it clear. I never said or thought that KJ was a bad player. I think he's a great young guy, along with Cano, and they both have huge upsides to them.

"baleen:

Not to turn this into a Yankee comment section but why the hate on Cano?

Cano: Johnson:

Hits 162 157
Dbls 35 39
Hrs 14 12
Rbis 72 69
Runs 70 86
Bavg .271 .287
OBP .305 .349

In what I would call a bad year for Cano I don't see a big difference in the two players, and Cano turns 26 this month. "

Are you really going to start this cherry picking stat nonsense again?

OPS- Johnson-.800, Cano- .715
RC- Johnson-91 in 614 PA, Cano- 63 in 634 PA
LD%- KJ- 24.7%, Cano- 19.4%

What more do you want? Jonhson slugged more, he got on base more, he had a higher BA (the only stat that seems to matter to you), he hit more line drives, he created more runs, he stole more bases, anything else?

jimmie... I don't know about Zimmerman or Fielder, but you are not getting more then David Wright for Matt Cain. Simply no chance. It is very unlikely they even get him in a 1 for 1 deal.

"However, in an effort of fairness I think two guidelines need to be established. First anyone who wants to respond to this question need look at three things. First, the Bedard deal, second the Haren deal and then Third, the fact that Peavy is better (possibly twice as good) as either or both of them (which is obviously debateable but I think is true) and that he is signed extremely cheaply given his talent through 2013."

Give me Dan Haren over Jake Peavy every single day of the year.

They are the same age, and have put up similar numbers the last 3 years. 2 of those years were in the AL for Haren, while Peavy has pitched his entire career in the pitcher friendly NL West, in the even more pitcher friendly Petco Park. Dan Haren is a horse and has pitched 200 innings every season since his first full season. While having the better stuff, and while having also pitched 200 innings 3 of the lasy 4 years, he has had injury problems in 2004 and again this year. His smallish 6'0 175 lb frame couple with his violent delivery scares the hell out of me. I see major arm surgery for him at some point. Dan Haren, on the other hand, is a 6'5 225lb workhorse who will put up similar numbers to Peavy while being less flashy, but more durable. I can certainly see somebody preferring Peavy over Haren, but too say he is atleast two times better and should be treated as such in a trade is completely ridiculous.

"While having the better stuff, and while having also pitched 200 innings 3 of the lasy 4 years, he has had injury problems in 2004 and again this year. His smallish 6'0 175 lb frame couple with his violent delivery scares the hell out of me. I see major arm surgery for him at some point."

This should have started with Peavy, .....

I was talking about Peavy there, not Haren, incase anybody was wondering.

"Carolina, Arroyo could possibly succeed as a #3 type in Atlanta. I've always been a fan of him, so I wouldn't mind it. No clue what we'd give up though. (would Gonzalez do the trick?)"

Don't the Reds have a guy named Cordero? Why would they need another closer. And, without Gonzalez, the Braves are s.crewed. Who will close? The Braves pen will look like the one that performed in the 2005 playoffs. And that's not a compliment.

nrmax88- Good argument on Peavy and Haren, but if you're going to take into account that Peavy pitches in a pitcher's park, Haren pitched in one as well (the A's play in a VERY pitcher friendly park).

melonis, good argument. But wouldn't you like to have a guy like Gonzalez setting up for Cordero? Besides, we have Rafael Soriano to hold us over until Smoltz is ready to close again.

nrmax88, I don't disagree with you about David Wright in the aspect of whats fair or what the Mets percieve his value in a trade return. What I mean is what the Giants, specifically Sabean, would require in return to pull the trigger on such a deal. The fate of Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain appear directly tied to Sabeans' future and while they both are said to be untouchable, Cain most likely isn't completely. If a deal were to happen between the Giants and Mets, it would more than likely involve more than 1 player from both sides to make everyone happy. Because of Sabeans' demands, I don't think the deal gets done, or even started anyway.

bamabosoxfan- If the Braves plan on contending, no way they trade Gonzalez. Don't trust Rafael Soriano and Peter Moylan too much; who knows how they will be after their injuries.

I think you remember the 2005 playoffs (although he wasn't GM then). Game 2: Braves down 3-2 in the 7th. FOUR relievers could not record ONE out amongst themselves. Every playoff loss could be blamed on the bullpen (had the bullpen not given up any runs, the Braves would either be tied or leading).