Players To Avoid Arbitration: Tuesday

Today is the deadline for players and teams to submit arbitration figures. The sides will then settle on a salary between the team's proposed number and the player's proposed number or go to an arbitration hearing. Arbitration eligible players are under team control, so the clubs don't risk losing them – it's a question of how much the players will earn.

Yesterday, 11 players avoided arbitration. We could see just as many agreements trickle in today and we'll keep you posted on them right here and with our Arb Tracker. The latest updates will be at the top of the post:

  • The Padres avoided arbitration with Chase Headley (2.535MM) and Tim Stauffer ($1.075MM), according to MLB.com's Corey Brock (on Twitter).
  • The Phillies and Kyle Kendrick avoided arbitration with a $2.45MM deal, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). The team has confirmed the deal.
  • The Pirates announced that they agreed to terms with Joel Hanrahan. It's a $1.4MM deal, according to Colin Dunlap of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (on Twitter).
  • The Cubs agreed to a one-year deal with Tom Gorzelanny, despite reports that a trade to Washington is imminent. Gorzelanny will earn $2.1MM next year, according to Mark Zuckerman of NatsInsider.com (on Twitter). They also announced a two-year, $4.7MM deal with Sean Marshall.
  • The Diamondbacks agreed to a one-year deal with Joe Saunders.
  • The Padres agreed to a $2.535MM deal with Mike Adams, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links).
  • The Angels agreed to a $3MM deal with Erick Aybar and a $2.975MM deal with Kendry Morales.
  • The White Sox agreed to a $5.05MM deal with Carlos Quentin, according to Rosenthal.
  • The Braves agreed to a $3.1MM deal with Martin Prado and a $3.25MM deal with Jair Jurrjens according to Rosenthal.
  • The Orioles agreed to a $5.85MM deal with J.J. Hardy, according to Rosenthal.
  • The Athletics agreed to a $4.75MM deal with Kevin Kouzmanoff, according to Slusser (Twitter link).
  • The Giants avoided arbitration with Cody Ross, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter link). Ross will earn $6.3MM in 2011.
  • The Red Sox avoided arbitration with Jonathan Papelbon ($12MM) and Jacoby Ellsbury ($2.4MM).
  • The Yankees avoided arbitration with Joba Chamberlain ($1.4MM), Phil Hughes ($2.7MM) and Boone Logan ($1.2MM), according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (all Twitter links).
  • The Dodgers agreed to a $6.275MM deal with Chad Billingsley, according to Heyman (on Twitter).
  • The White Sox agreed to a $6MM deal with John Danks, according to Heyman (on Twitter).The Cubs avoided arbitration with Matt Garza and agreed to a $5.95MM deal, according to Heyman (on Twitter).
  • The Indians avoided arbitration with Shin-Soo Choo, the team announced. The deal is worth $3.975MM, according to Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (on Twitter).
  • The Twins avoided arbitration with Matt Capps ($7.15MM) and Glen Perkins ($700K), according to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune (on Twitter).
  • The Rays avoided arbitration with Andy Sonnanstine, agreeing to a deal worth $913K plus incentives, according to Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times (on Twitter).
  • The Mets avoided arbitration with Mike Pelfrey, agreeing on a deal worth close to $4MM, according to Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com.
  • The Brewers avoided arbitration with Prince Fielder and Manny Parra, signing the players to one-year deals, the team announced. Parra will earn $1.2MM, according to MLB.com's Adam McCalvy (on Twitter).
  • The Athletics avoided arbitration with Dallas Braden ($3.35MM) and Conor Jackson ($3.32MM), according to MLB.com's Jane Lee (on Twitter).
  • The Blue Jays agreed to a one-year, $2.3MM deal with Brandon Morrow, the team announced.
  • The Indians announced that they agreed to a one-year deal with Rafael Perez (Twitter link). It's worth $1.33MM, according to Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (on Twitter).
  • The Athletics avoided arbitration with Josh Willingham, agreeing to a $6MM deal, according to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (on Twitter).
  • The Astros signed Michael Bourn to a one-year, $4.4MM deal, according to MLB.com's Brian McTaggart (on Twitter).
  • The Nationals announced (on Twitter) that they avoided arbitration with Michael Morse.
  • The Marlins avoided arbitration with Anibal Sanchez, according to MLB.com's Joe Frisaro (on Twitter). They agreed to a $3.7MM deal, according to Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com (Twitter link).
  • The Orioles avoided arbitration with Felix Pie, according to Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun (Twitter links). The deal is for $985K.
  • The Blue Jays avoided arbitration with Rajai Davis, agreeing to a two-year, $5.25MM deal with the outfielder.
  • The Marlins avoided arbitration with Clay Hensley and agreed to a $1.4MM deal, according to MLB.com's Joe Frisaro (on Twitter).
  • The Astros agreed to a one-year, $2.3MM deal with Jeff Keppinger, avoiding arbitration, according to Zachary Levine of the Houston Chronicle (on Twitter). The Astros confirmed the deal.
  • The White Sox agreed to a one-year, $1.6MM deal with Tony Pena, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (Twitter link).
  • The Padres avoided arbitration with Ryan Ludwick with a $6.775MM deal, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter).
  • The Astros avoided arbitration with Clint Barmes, signing the infielder to a one-year, $3.925MM deal, according to Rosenthal.  The Astros confirmed the deal.
  • The Rockies avoided arb with Felipe Paulino and agreed to a one-year, $790K deal, according to Troy Renck of the Denver Post (on Twitter).
  • The Blue Jays announced that they have agreed to terms with Yunel Escobar on a $2.9MM deal for 2011.
  • The Indians signed Chris Perez for 2011, avoiding arbitration, the team announced (on Twitter). It's a $2.225MM deal, according to Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (on Twitter).
  • The Royals announced that they agreed to terms with Kyle Davies on a one-year deal, avoiding arbitration. It's a $3.2MM deal, according to MLB.com's Dick Kaegel (on Twitter).
  • The Reds avoided arbitration will Bill Bray, according to John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer (on Twitter). The AP says the deal is for $645K.
  • The Nationals avoided arbitration with Doug Slaten, and agreed to a one-year, $695K deal according to Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post.
  • The Padres avoided arbitration with Heath Bell and agreed to a one-year, $7.5MM deal.


Full Story | 135 Comments | Categories: Andy Sonnanstine | Anibal Sanchez | Atlanta Braves | Baltimore Orioles | Bill Bray | Boone Logan | Boston Red Sox | Brandon League | Brandon Morrow | C.J. Wilson | Carlos Quentin | Chad Billingsley | Chase Headley | Chicago Cubs | Chicago White Sox | Chris Perez | Cincinnati Reds | Clay Hensley | Cleveland Indians | Clint Barmes | Cody Ross | Colorado Rockies | Conor Jackson | Dallas Braden | David Aardsma | Doug Slaten | Erick Aybar | Felipe Paulino | Felix Pie | Glen Perkins | Heath Bell | Houston Astros | Howie Kendrick | J.J. Hardy | Jacoby Ellsbury | Jair Jurrjens | Jason Vargas | Jeff Keppinger | Joba Chamberlain | Joe Saunders | Joel Hanrahan | John Danks | Jonathan Papelbon | Jonathan Sanchez | Josh Willingham | Kansas City Royals | Kendrys Morales | Kevin Kouzmanoff | Kyle Davies | Kyle Kendrick | Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim | Los Angeles Dodgers | Manny Parra | Martin Prado | Matt Capps | Matt Garza | Miami Marlins | Michael Bourn | Michael Morse | Mike Adams | Mike Pelfrey | Milwaukee Brewers | Minnesota Twins | Nelson Cruz | New York Mets | Oakland Athletics | Peter Moylan | Phil Hughes | Philadelphia Phillies | Pittsburgh Pirates | Prince Fielder | Rafael Perez | Rajai Davis | Ramon Ramirez | Reggie Willits | Ryan Ludwick | San Diego Padres | San Francisco Giants | Santiago Casilla | Seattle Mariners | Shin-Soo Choo | Tampa Bay Rays | Texas Rangers | Tim Stauffer | Tom Gorzelanny | Tony Pena | Toronto Blue Jays | Transactions | Washington Nationals | Yunel Escobar

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135 Comments on "Players To Avoid Arbitration: Tuesday"


vtadave
4 years 7 months ago

$3.2 million for Kyle Davies? Seems a bit high, but then again, he did put up a 2.0 WAR season and is still just 27.

Red_Line_9
4 years 7 months ago

I was going to post almost the same thing. This is the real problem with payroll. Players like Davies getting $3.2M. Mediocrity has never cost so much.

Lunchbox45
4 years 7 months ago

Decent raise for JU NEL.. what an awesome pick up for the jays, hoping for big things for him in 2011!

$1529282
4 years 7 months ago

$790K for Paulino just goes on to make that trade even more of a steal. Great deal for Colorado.

4 years 7 months ago

Pie for $985,000 is a good deal.

slasher016
4 years 7 months ago

$985,000 would buy a lot of pie.

4 years 7 months ago

Bah-Dum-Chi

Exposfan
4 years 7 months ago

If the base-stealing statistic was a stock options, I’d buy it right now!

With the contract that Bourne and Rajai Davis got, seems this statistic leads to a ton of money for speedy players. Yeah you need to get on base for attempting steals but you get the point..

Wonders what Podsednik is thinking right now..

stl_cards16
4 years 7 months ago

I wish I was good at stealing bases?

Exposfan
4 years 7 months ago

Got it.

popular_mechanics_for_pitchers
4 years 7 months ago

the Davis deal wasn’t crazy at all. and Bourne at 4 mil aint bad

4 years 7 months ago

I don’t see the Angels or Twins signing their arb eligibles here. Two of the longer lists among the clubs. Better get busy!

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

the angels signed aybar and morales… the only significant arb-eligible player they have left is weaver

4 years 7 months ago

Those deals must have been announced within the last hour. Huge bargain on Morales. Even though he injured himself last year, there’s no reason to believe he won’t have another great season.

4 years 7 months ago

Angels signed Callaspo and Mathis last week and Morales and Aybar today. Weaver, Napoli and Willits is who remains.

4 years 7 months ago

And Howie

PushDown
4 years 7 months ago

We got Howie too. Just Nap and Weav now

Exposfan
4 years 7 months ago

Matt Capps is one happy camper!

For 400K more, I’d go with Heath Bell anyyyyyytime.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

And so would the Twins. Too bad he wasn’t available.

4 years 7 months ago

WOW @ Matt Capps. That’s pretty rough for the Twins. Pavano’s gonna be working for free I guess.

popular_mechanics_for_pitchers
4 years 7 months ago

not a very “twin” like move

klassic
4 years 7 months ago

It would be much easier if you kept all the teams arbitration signings together. Then I don’t have to scan the list for each of my team’s signings.

azdsnd
4 years 7 months ago

CTRL + F

Solution achieved.

$1529282
4 years 7 months ago

SEVEN MILLION for Capps? Bill Smith should be fired. Trade one of our top prospects for this guy, who has nearly identical peripherals to the closer we already had, then tender him a contract for $7 MILLION, when that money could’ve gone toward two or even three relievers who are better than the junk we have right now. JJ Hardy’s $6-$7M was too expensive but we’re going to pay this clown that much for 60 innings? What a joke.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Great rant. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

What’s worse than a set-up man making double the market average? Giving up a Top-5 prospect out of your farm for the “privilege” of overpaying him.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

I think people are looking at the Capps thing the wrong way. He’s needed as insurance for Nathan this year and possibly as a closer (unless he craps the bed this year) after 2011. Yeah, the team is overpaying for a set-up man, but when Nathan is still a question mark this year and going forward, what else were they supposed to do? Hand it to Jesse Crain or Matt Guerrier?

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Or Rausch.

Any of those would provide cheaper “insurance” for virtually identical performance.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

Except Rauch wanted a multi-year deal. Plus I think the Twins pretty much knew he wouldn’t sign here. I’d heard from a local reporter that he wasn’t very happy when they took the closer role away from him after he struggled a bit. So there was next to zero chance he was coming back.

I supposed you could come back with Fuentes, but I don’t want him as a closer. Give me Capps and his numbers — and the 8 years he has on Capps — over Fuentes, who, since he’s from an area two hours east of Oakland, likely would have taken a multi-year deal around $6 mil for the Twins to sign.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

And to be clear, the Twins are obviously setting themselves up for potential changes after the 2011 season. Depending on how Nathan and Capps do this season (and with Cuddy’s deal also up) they could easily go out and find a new closer in free agency or through a trade. Don’t get tied down with any mediocre options out there (Fuentes, Crain, etc.) when you could find your long-term closer down the road.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Instead of getting “tied down” to a mediocre option for a 1-year deal (plus option), we’re getting tied down to the tune of double-the-paycheck to a mediocre option.

I look at it this way: Capps is costing $3.5M more than the market rate for his caliber of arm. That’s $3.5M that could be used to go sign Vlad to a 1-yr deal. Or getting 2 Rausch’s. Etc etc etc.

Sorry man, we just disagree on this one. I can’t find value in Capps at $7M.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

And think about next year, Twins can’t offer him arbitration cause he might get 10 million. Yikes.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

I’m sorry, but Vlad wasn’t coming here to be a part-time player.

Again, Capps has value because he’s an insurance policy and while you are paying him more than other relievers got, you’re not tied down with him. Pretty easy to understand.

This is about what Capps was projected to get, so I guess I don’t understand all the sudden negativity. This isn’t a surprise at all.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

The negativity is for the same reasons my girlfriend gets pissed when I remind her I hate her mother – it re-open’s old wounds.

As for Vlad – that’s merely an example of one of a dozen ways to spend an extra $3.5M. That kind of money can go a LONG ways. I don’t enjoy just pissing it away.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

For the multi-year thing, it’s not like he got that guaranteed. He could only be with the Jays for a year, because the second is only an option. I’d still easily do that over Capps any day.

Did not hear that about the closer stuff though, definitely a possible reason for his departure. Plus, it sounds like the Twins only went after Crain. And Crain said they didn’t really go after him…so….

popular_mechanics_for_pitchers
4 years 7 months ago

Rauch signed a one year deal with an option

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

My point was that he wanted one and considering his attitude toward the Twins, it would have taken at least that to get him back here, if he was even willing to do so.

popular_mechanics_for_pitchers
4 years 7 months ago

The twins had too keep Capps because they just traded one of their best prospects for him. It just doesn’t seem like a move that we normally expect out of the twins. I agree with you that Rauch is searching for some save opportunities with the Jays

lolpods
4 years 7 months ago

would you really want multiple years of rauch? i don’t have the numbers in front of me, but i would bet he’s a candidate for some pretty hard regression.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Yes, they should have kept the closer duties in house. Rauch was doing a pretty good job, Crain had just heated up and he all know hot he stayed until Sept, and Guerrier was his usual steady self, and Fuentes was a Twin two months after they got Capps. They still would have cruised to the finish line without Capps.

4 years 7 months ago

You guys are crazy. Ramos didn’t hit when he got called up for the nationals last year. Ramos is not the prospect you think he is. Mauer is our catcher, let ramos struggle to hit the breaking ball with another club. Capps was an all-star last season and will be a valuable piece to our bullpen especially when Nathan does not perform to nathan-like standards. We had to have a legitimate closer and Jon Rauch is not that. Gambling that Nathan is gonna bounce back completely after having major reconstructive surgery is a terrible idea. 7 mill is a great price for an all-star closer.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

1. I don’t care about Ramos’ performance in a limited sample size. I care that he was ranked a Top-5 prospect by the scouting organizations.
2. I don’t care that Capps made the all-star team. So did Ty Wigginton. Every team gets 1 representative, and Capps was the token Nationals player. This is the same Matt Capps who, this time last year, was a free agent after being non-tendered. And he signed cheap, with a last-place team.
3. All the metrics indicate Rausch = Capps. I suppose you could argue Rausch doesn’t have the “experience” of closing in the “pressure cooker” of NL basement-dwelling teams…

Seriously, you need to study up on what exactly being an “All-Star” means. The game is a joke. Fan voting, each-team-at-least-one-player… it’s the furthest measurement from a “good performer” as you can find.

$7M for a mediocre setup man is not a great price. It’s not even a good or fair price. It’s a terrible price. Especially when you can replace his exact statistical performance for half the price.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Well said.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

Rauch was mediocre to terrible for three months last season. His career numbers are also worse than Capps. Yes, Capps was non-tendered, after the worst year in his career. Every other year he’s been more than solid. Give me Capps any day, even at the $7 mil level.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

Also, Rauch wasn’t coming back to the Twins. It’s worth factoring that in as well.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

I haven’t seen this whole “Rauch hated MN and would never have come back” storyline before.

My bottom line is if I’m spending $7M and a top prospect, I want a helluva lot more than a Matt Capps.

And if I’m stuck with Capps, then I’ll gladly just go the cheap route and spend half-or-less of that on an indistinguishable replacement.

azdsnd
4 years 7 months ago

As an Arizona Diamondbacks fan, allow me to tell you that Matt Capps is absolutely superior to Jon Rauch. (Yes, I know this is a terrible argument. I would rather have Capps, but not because the D-backs happened to get him for the worst year-long stretch of his career.)

Also, Rauch used to close for the Nationals. I know that’s only relevant to your “joke,” but I’m just sayin’.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

You realize neither are very good, right? The peripherals are indistinguishable. And one costs over double what the other one does.

I don’t want EITHER guy closing for my contending club. But if I have to get stuck with one, I’ll take the cheaper option.

And if I’m going to spend $7M and a top prospect, I want someone damn good.

PhilsFan420
4 years 7 months ago

“I care that he was ranked a top-5 prospect by the scouting organizations”

Umm, so was Lastings Milledge. The scouting organizations still just guess. Granted, their educated guesses, because they see them play, but their still guesses. Should the Twins have gotten more for one of their top prospects? Of course! But Capps is a proven major leaguer. To discount his all-star status because the all-star process is ridiculous doesn’t add up. The Nationals had more than 1 good player – Ryan Zimmerman being the obvious one.

Ramos could be great. Ramos could suck. No one knows. What we all know is that Capps is a very solid reliever who could be the 2nd or 3rd best setup man in the AL and is terrific insurance for Nathan. Who knows what Nathan will be this year. Its VERY possible that Nathan ends up hurt or ineffective coming off his injury. Nathan could end up on the DL or as the setup man…with Capps as the closer. Then all of a sudden, $7.15 million wont look so bad.

Lady_A
4 years 7 months ago

Oh, Capps was an ALL STAR? That makes up for everything. Now I’m ecstatic about this signing….

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

It’s not surprising. I believe he was predicted to get 7 when people were guessing. It sucks. I’d much rather have Rauch at 3.5. Even if they were the same price, I’d rather have Rauch.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Bill Smith will be the death of this team. It appears he learned nothing from Terry Ryan.

jhawk90
4 years 7 months ago

’07 rabble rabble rabble we’re so cheap!!! we can’t keep any of our own players!!!
’08 rabble rabble rabble we can’t sign Mauer with Morneau etc.’s contracts!!!
’09 rabble rabble rabble we still can’t afford Mauer!!!
’10 rabble rabble rabble we can’t afford anything with Mauer making so much!!!
’11 rabble rabble rabble we’re spending too much money on a 1-year closer/plan B!!!

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

That is very accurate and funny. Though I think ’08 is off, at least for me. I didn’t think Morneau would hinder a Mauer contract, though I did think a Santana one would make it hard to extend either.

Once Santana was gone, I knew Mauer would easily be kept, as long as he wanted to stay.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

I agree. I think things could’ve played out much differently had Santana accepted that 5/100 extension offer from the Twins.

Mario Saavedra
4 years 7 months ago

I think the Pads overpayed for both Ludwick and Heath Bell.

rizdak
4 years 7 months ago

Ugh – as a Padres fan, why did we give $6.775M for Ludwick? That’s how a .631 Petco OPS gets rewarded? Padres are signing too many 30-something players whose best years are behind them – Bartlett, Hawpe, Ludwick, Hudson… The team should be getting younger, not older. $7.5M for Bell was an overpay too.

azdsnd
4 years 7 months ago

Because, unlike you, Jed Hoyer doesn’t flip out over small sample sizes.

rizdak
4 years 7 months ago

You’re right. He uses the 2009 Baseball Prospectus instead.

penpaper
4 years 7 months ago

Choo continues to get paid WAY below market value. Awesome deal for the Indians. I imagined they would at least try to work out an extension though.

Jason Klinger
4 years 7 months ago

That surprised me, too. This guy should be making double what he just got paid (just south of $4 million).

azdsnd
4 years 7 months ago

Most under-appreciated player in baseball, by far. He’s a legitimately elite player, with 10.9 FanGraphs WAR in the last two years, yet that apparently only gets him $4MM…

Guest
4 years 7 months ago

With that logic, Chad Billingsley should get like 12 million dollars.

Sniderlover
4 years 7 months ago

“The Angels agreed to a $3MM deal with Kendry Morales and a $2.975MM deal with Kendry Morales.”

Angels didn’t get to sign any of their big UFA so they are now resorting to cloning. Cheaters!

4 years 7 months ago

I truly thought he’d get the combined amount of those contracts.

4 years 7 months ago

Actually, it’s the new way to pay switch-hitters. He gets $3 mil from the left side and $2.975MM from the right.

grant77
4 years 7 months ago

Kendry Morales gets 2 contracts, good for him!

4 years 7 months ago

Now Bautista is the only guy who the team still has to settle on a new contract with. All of these deals look very reasonable to me. It’s nice that at worst the club will be going through arbitration with one player. That takes a lot of pressure off of AA and the front office.

4 years 7 months ago

Upton’s is a little ridiculous to put it nicely…

Slopeboy
4 years 7 months ago

If you have a problem with Upton’s salary, just be thankful he hasn’t played up to his real abilities. Had he played with with purpose instead of ego the last few years, he’d be making serious money right now.

4 years 7 months ago

Yeah. Talk about a guy who can’t focus. He has every physical tool needed to be an elite player, he just can’t put it together.

Guest
4 years 7 months ago

5 million for elite defense and there is always the chance he can crazy with the bat? Please send him to the Dodgers.

4 years 7 months ago

There’s also the chance he could fail miserably with the bat.

4 years 7 months ago

If the White Sox can specify that the $5.05MM goes to 2008 Carlos Quentin, this is a great deal for them. If the 2009-2010 version shows up… not so much.

4 years 7 months ago

Hardy for $5.85 million is ridiculous. But he is light years better than Cesar Izturis. That’s what I keep telling myself.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

People in Minnesota actually told themselves he’d cost $6-8M, and used that as comfort in shipping him off for nothing.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, 6-7 were common numbers thrown around. I would have taken him at 6-7 and now even more so that it’s cheaper.

buffalonichols
4 years 7 months ago

Hardy wasn’t coming back. The Twins didn’t like how he milked his injury last year. They were fine with him missing some time, but he took it to extremes. Seems weird to me fans will rip a player like Mauer for last year (when he still led all MLB catchers in at-bats and was second only to McCann among games played) yet will give Hardy a free pass for his season.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

Well, if I was a fan who ripped Mauer than I would agree with you. You can’t lump me in with them though, because I don’t.

And a bone bruise, which he had, usually takes months to heal. That’s why it took so long, especially considering it was in his wrist and that’s an important part of the body in baseball. It was going to take awhile to heal and I don’t exactly trust our medical staff as they generally get an injury wrong 2-3 times a year.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

I rip Mauer because we’re paying him 2009 MVP dollars for 2010 “Very good but not near MVP” performance.

I defend Hardy because, when you combine both offense and defense, he’s the 2nd best SS in the AL last year – and that’s not debatable, it’s statistical fact.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Where are you getting those stats from? I have it as Ramirez, Pennington, Jeter, Hardy…

That surprises me even, considering all the time he spent nursing his bruises. The guy was an excellent fielder, no doubt about it, but he was worthless at the dish. I can’t stand watching Hardy bat. Good riddance.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

Even when he was hitting .304/.363/.442 in his last 54 games? You thought that was bad? I don’t think you can expect every player to hit .300/.400/.500 (complete random numbers) for an entire season.

The fact that JJ put up league average numbers for a SS while playing excellent D is a rare find. It means he hit what the average MLB SS did, while providing great D (which the avg SS does not do).

Heck, the Twins medical staff is becoming widely known as a bunch of buffoons with all of their mistakes in the last five years. Hardy came back too soon from that injury and played awful for two weeks (.139/.184/.167). Take out those two weeks, when he was clearly playing hurt, and he puts up a .283/.335/.421 line for the season. I’m pretty sure those numbers would have put him way up there offensively in terms of SS’s.

It’s bad when the Twins haven’t had a real SS since Gagne and fans do not realize what they had. We’ve had so many bad SS’s it seems like it would be easy for fans to spot a good one…especially our, likely very long, list of craptacular SS since Gagne. If you don’t like Hardy, than you didn’t like Gagne either.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Thats a good argument. He did do very, very nicely during his healthy spell at the end of the year and I always enjoyed watching his defense. My Dad and I split a set of seats right above the Twins dugout and he were always talking about his suburb throwing accuracy to first. But I had soured on him by the time he hit his stride in August for his fragility and extreme lack of clutch hitting. How many times did Hardy have the crowd at Target Field on their feet while trailing in the late innings only to have a miserable at bat, often striking out swinging? I saw more of that than with any other Twin in the last few years, even Punto. I can’t really argue with the metrics, they tell one story, but I saw another. That $6M is better spent elsewhere on bolstering the pen or extending Liriano or Delmon, IMO.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

I can see a point there, but it’s not like guys like Thome didn’t do the same thing. I was at 3-4 games where Thome had a chance to tie or win the game, sometimes more than once in the game. In at least half of those times, he didn’t pull through either. He would strike out instead. Though I did see the first walkoff HR in TF that was done by him…amazing.

I can think of about 3 or so game winning hits provided by Hardy, he didn’t screw up all the time. Neither did Thome, but it happened to both.

I can understand why you’d be rough on him for the first half though, but to me, it looked like his swing was still messed up from all of the different ones he tried in 2009. He said he tried everything to fix his swing that year. Vavra was working with him and it was starting to work and then he got the bone bruise. I really think he just had bad luck.

If Casilla turns out great, then maybe I can forget about Hardy, but it will be pretty tough. Casilla has a lot to live up to in my eyes, even if they use the money to extend Liriano or Delmon, preferably Liriano first.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, I know what you mean about Thome. It seemed that while Morneau was healthy, more often than not the only time Jim Thome got an opportunity was in a pressure packed pinch hitting situation, where oftentimes it didn’t exactly go as planned. How can you not like Thome, though? I was able to see his walk-off vs CWS and Thornton, my favorite moment of last season.

Hardy did have some clutch hits the more I think of it. Maybe my dislike of him is unjustified. I just have a very negative impression of Hardy’s time as a Twin. But just one year is a pretty small sample size in the grand scheme of things. Bad luck could very well be the case. Time will tell.

I’m a Casilla fan. I think he has excellent potential. I just hope he can live up to it.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t think any sane person hates Thome, but I honestly feel the same about Hardy. Well, not exactly the same, but I find it hard to figure out the people who don’t like Hardy.

If health is/was a knock then fine, I have zero argument against that. He hasn’t been 100% for a few seasons now. The rest of it though, he’s shown to be one of the top SS in the league and that is completely worth that contract. And when he is healthy, he puts up very good numbers, especially for a SS.

I want to be a Casilla fan, but he’s so far only shown that he can be a part time player. Hopefully that is past him because I do see that the talent is there.

TwinsTapir
4 years 7 months ago

If we had anything resembling a bench, that might not have been such an issue. I don’t think you can reasonably blame Hardy for the existence of Butera and Tolbert.

Snoochies8
4 years 7 months ago

He said “combine both offense and defense”, Pennington shouldn’t be grouped in there, he has no offense, although he is one of the best defensive shortstops.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Ah, I see you’re using WAR.

I’m going by Alexei being the only SS with a better UZR and OPS.

As for “worthless at the dish”, his OPS was .714. Wanna take a look back at past opening day SS?

2010 Hardy: .714 OPS
2009 Punto: .621
2008 Harris: .721
2007 Bartlett: .699
2006 Castro: .565
2005 Bartlett: .651
2000-04 Guzman: .709 (rough avg.)

Aside from Harris’ fluke season, he’s the best hitting shortstop we’ve had in a decade. And 1 of 3 to post a >.700 OPS (Guzman only did it once, in 2001).

I haven’t done the research, but I suspect Hardy’s UZR is the best in the past decade.

0vercast
4 years 7 months ago

Yes, he was the best hitting SS of those bums. The only one worth a damn was Guzman.

What can I say? I think the money is better spent elsewhere, and I think the Hardy trade was a good opportunity to “____ or get off the pot” with Casilla, which needed to be done. Hardy’s trade netted a decent power arm in Hoey in the process, and he’s in line to be vastly overpaid in FA after the 2011 season. He was only going to be a here for one more season anyway.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

That’s fair. I’d just rather see 5M spent on a quality SS than 7M on a mediocre CL. Tough day in that regard.

I’m a believer in alexei since I met him in 07 spring training. But we need proven assets, at least 1, at MI if were gonna win now. I don’t like going into 2011 with 3 INF who’ve never played a full season and a 4th with injury issues. Looks more like a rebuilding club than a contender in that regard.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, the whole infield right now is questionable because we have no idea about the following:
Valencia: will he slump?
Casilla: will he be able to hold down a full time job?
Nishioka: how’s the transition going to go?
Morneau: how’s the noggin?

That can be answered quickly in a good or bad way once the season starts Hopefully not bad, but it’s hard to expect that they’ll all be great, which is basically what we’re depending on…

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

Right. Which is why I’d feel better having hardy around through spring training at least.

Deal him if the MI look competent. And they could get a similar return. Maybe better if someone elsewhere got hurt…

4 years 7 months ago

Based on the list above, it seems a lot of teams are overpaying for mediocrity. Am I alone on this? Would you pay Capps, Kouzmanoff, Jeff Hardy, Clint Barmes, Ryan Ludwick, Kyle Davies, the money agreed upon?

Jeff
4 years 7 months ago

There is no way in hell that Kyle Davies is anywhere as good as Jajr Jurrjens, who is going to be one tempting piece of trade bait this season.

twins33
4 years 7 months ago

Capps…no way he deserves that. Hardy, I really think he’s worth that…but I also expect a big year from him.

TwinsVet
4 years 7 months ago

It’s a bit misleading to say teams are “overpaying”. These aren’t free agent signings. They’re taking a calculated risk to agree to this figure, out of fear an arbitrator could award an even uglier amount…

BrocNessMonster
4 years 7 months ago

I think that some people are suggesting that, for the sake of the salaries, some of these guys maybe should have been non tendered.

4 years 7 months ago

“The Cubs agreed to a one-year deal with Tom Gorzelanny, despite reports that a trade to Washington is imminent.”

Um, if he’s going to Washington, shouldn’t they be the one’s avoiding arbitration with him. The Cubs could sign him to a $10-billion contract, and screw Washington’s payroll.

Does anyone else see this as a problem?

vonhayesdays
4 years 7 months ago

definitely strange , hell Gorzelanny could request Cliff Lee style money , the cubs could agree then ship him to the nationals to foot the bill, However maybe the trade isnt so imminent . Dare i say mlbtr isnt correct (never)

elbeisbol
4 years 7 months ago

This trade isn’t just on MLBTR, it’s on the Nationals site and the Cubs site. Not sure how the trade could be “not imminent”.

vonhayesdays
4 years 7 months ago

I have never been to either one of those sites nor will i ever , but dont count your trades until the said player gets his new uni to put on with his slacks and tie. all im sayin is why would a team agree to let another team do their artbitration. go expos , and thank you bud for screwing baltimore over again….

4 years 7 months ago

“all im sayin is why would a team agree to let another team do their arbitration.”
Same here!