AL East Notes: Lucchino, Youkilis, Orioles

Yesterday, we learned that the landscape for free agent pitcher Hiroki Kuroda is now "wide open".  The Red Sox have long been interested in the right-hander and was involved in trade talks to acquire him over the summer before Kuroda decided that he would rather finish the season with the Dodgers.  The Yankees are also expected to be in the mix for the hurler.  Here's more news out of the American League East..

  • The Orioles will announce more front office hires today, according to Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com (via Twitter).
  • Red Sox CEO/president Larry Lucchino said he would not attend the Winter Meetings, writes Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.  This could be a sign that Lucchino is willing to back off or that he is showing full confidence in his new management team of GM Ben Cherington and skipper Bobby Valentine.
  • Cafardo also writes that Boston could use Jed Lowrie and Josh Reddick as trade bait and wonders if the club would part with Kevin Youkilis in a bigger deal.
  • More from Cafardo, as he writes that Red Sox VP of player personnel Allard Baird is likely to come up in connection with the Astros' GM job.  Baird was in the mix for Baltimore's GM vacancy but ultimately opted not to interview for the position.
  • There has been little connection between the Orioles and any starters on the free-agent market which could mean that a trade is their best option, writes Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun.  The O's could also use a middle infielder and a DH but both are considered to be back burner issues.
  • New Orioles scouting director Gary Rajsich says he'd like to hire some new amateur scouts by the end of the year, writes Steve Melewski of MASNsports.com.  Rajsich will look to adding a scout in central Florida and add a scout for the New England area to replace Keith Connolly, who recently left the organization.


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108 Comments on "AL East Notes: Lucchino, Youkilis, Orioles"


Minorityfanbasewannabe
3 years 8 months ago

Gotta hope Lucchino decides to stay out of ben’s way. Messing with the front office’s jobs could make things get really hairy.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

Why?  Why? Why? Why? Why are two of baseball’s premier teams located in one of the toughest divisions in baseball interested in a 37 year old who has thrown a million innings between his time here and in Japan, has spent his entire career in the National league, has been declining every year and who came out and said he did not want to go to either team last year when both had a shot to win the WS while the only place the Dodgers were going was bankruptcy court?

Is this just speculation or has it been verified the Yankees and Redsox are interested in an old past his prime pitcher who does not care about winning?

Brad426
3 years 8 months ago

Because he’s a relatively inexpensive innings eater? And I would certainly argue that 2011 was not a year in which he declined.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

What is your definition of relatively inexpensive? He wont be cheap and that is the point.  He will be looking for a multi year deal a 8-10 million per year.  He made 12 million last year? If you would argue he did not decline then how is paying him close to 12 million relatively inexpensive. And there is no such thing as a 37 year old innings eater. I would sign him if he was looking for one year at a million dollars.

3 years 8 months ago

Well it’s a good thing you’re not in charge of any MLB teams.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

I bet you loved Javy Vazquez too.  Now please respond as to what your definition of relatively inexpensive is.  He mad 12 million last year or do you doubt this?  He will be looking for similar money so how is that inexpensive? 

He will get between 8 and 10 million and is 37 years old. 

Do you not comprehend that pitching in the American League and National League is much different?
His homerun totals and baserunners allowed shows you he will translate like Javy Vazquez and at best equal Bruce Chen.  Mark Burhle and Edwin Jackson are available and will get similar contracts and they represent what should be the top two options for both clubs.

3 years 8 months ago

Diminishing marginal utility. His value is based on what you already have. The Red Sox have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, then 2 empty spaces. They could move Bard or Aceves to the rotation, but that’s risky and their bullpen is unstable enough as is. 

I don’t know as much as the Yankees, but last year their rotation was Sabathia, Garcia, Colon, Burnett, Nova, and Hughes. Hughes and Nova are unproven. Garcia is signed but is expected to regress. Colon won’t replicate his first-half success and Burnett sucks. They need pitching help.

And 8 to 10 million dollars? Who cares? These are two of the biggest marks in baseball. 8 mill is chump change to them, even if a deal goes sour. I think the Sox have a greater need than the Yanks, however. 

Wilson will more money/years than he’s worth. Jackson will also command 3-4 years (I think), and i’m pretty sure Buehrle will sign with the Cards, ChiSox, Marlins, or Nationals. My main point is that with the rich 2012-13 offseason in terms of starting pitching, dedicating multiple years to pitchers like EJax is a waste. Kuroda or Oswalt, while more expensive, will be on shorter deals which can prepare the teams for next year.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

Nova is unproven but clay bucholz isnt? The yankees need for pitching might be the most overblown rumor on these boards they were near top ten in every pitching category last year, without hughes.  Garcia put up the same xfip 2 years in a row and pretty much the same exact whip why is he expected to regress?

3 years 8 months ago

Garcia’s ERA last year was 3.62, compared to a 4.36 xFIP. That’s why he’s expected to regress. I admit that Buchholz is also unproven, but he’s pitched twice as many innings as Nova. 

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

And yet Kuroda who has a much bigger gap between his fip and era isnt going to regress despite being 37, and playing in a much more difficult division and a hitters park?

3 years 8 months ago

Who cares about FIP when xFIP is available? The gap between Garcia’s ERA/xFIP is bigger than Kuroda’s, and even if it wasn’t bigger; Kuroda’s xFIP is significantly lower than Garcia, such that — even if he does regress — he is still a good investment. 

Bill James predicts an ERA of 3.57 from Kuroda and a 4.25 ERA from Garcia. Now Bill James isn’t perfect, but i’m pretty sure he’s a lot smarter (baseball-wise) than you or me.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

The only difference is that kuroda is paid 3 times more and is hardly the better pitcher taking kuroda hr/9 and putting it in a hitters division wont get pretty results, while we already know what garcia can do. James doesnt actually sit their and predict these things i’m pretty sure it’s just an average from the past few years or something of the sort. 

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

DOesnt xfip average plug in the leagues avg hr rate? That would help Kuroda by quite a bit last year. 

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

Just wanted to clarify i would take kuroda on a one yr deal, and kuroda can suceed in the al

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

James works for the Sox, so why are they after Kuroda.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

And yet Kuroda who has a much bigger gap between his fip and era isnt going to regress despite being 37, and playing in a much more difficult division and a hitters park?

3 years 8 months ago

Garcia’s ERA last year was 3.62, compared to a 4.36 xFIP. That’s why he’s expected to regress. I admit that Buchholz is also unproven, but he’s pitched twice as many innings as Nova. 

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

Nova is unproven but clay bucholz isnt? The yankees need for pitching might be the most overblown rumor on these boards they were near top ten in every pitching category last year, without hughes.  Garcia put up the same xfip 2 years in a row and pretty much the same exact whip why is he expected to regress?

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

Nova went 16-4 with an era of 3.70.  He won another game in the post season so how you can call him unproven is beyond me.  Hughes was brilliant in 2009 and won a ring he won 18 games in 2010 and was an All Star how is that unproven?

“Burnett” sucks huh? John Lackey had the highest era in Redsox history while Burnett who had double digit wins and a win in the playoffs sucks?  How does a pitcher who sucks win 11 games.  He is not John Lackey and as a number 5 starter is one of the best in the league.

If you move Bard of Aceves then who do you have in the bull pen?  You have to sign a quality arm like a Madsen which will cost money.  

Kuroda will get a contract similar to Jackson or Burhle and he is not worth that to an AL East team.

3 years 8 months ago

You are using ERA and Wins to back up your argument. Try again.

The pitcher who sucks wins 11 games because he has one of the best offenses in the league behind him. The idiocy if your argument baffles me. I didn’t even mention John Lackey, and that’s because he won’t be pitching next year.

We would move Bard/Aceves to the bullpen if we couldn’t find any other SPs, and Madson would be more expensive than Kuroda.

Kuroda’s contract will not be similar to Ejax or Buehrle.

3 years 8 months ago

Also park doesn’t matter because xFIP adjusts for that.

Yankees420
3 years 8 months ago

I thought xFIP just normalizes HR/FB%?  The thing that concerns me with Kuroda is the drop in GBs and spike in LDs in 2011. 

3 years 8 months ago

Also park doesn’t matter because xFIP adjusts for that.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Burnett has a .500 record over 12 years averaging over 180+ innings. Many of those years in the AL East. While his lifetime ERA has gone up the last few years he is still a pitcher that has above average stuff. Most pitchers in the majors don’t have his longevity or ability to eat up innings year in and year out.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

Nova went 16-4 with an era of 3.70.  He won another game in the post season so how you can call him unproven is beyond me.  Hughes was brilliant in 2009 and won a ring he won 18 games in 2010 and was an All Star how is that unproven?

“Burnett” sucks huh? John Lackey had the highest era in Redsox history while Burnett who had double digit wins and a win in the playoffs sucks?  How does a pitcher who sucks win 11 games.  He is not John Lackey and as a number 5 starter is one of the best in the league.

If you move Bard of Aceves then who do you have in the bull pen?  You have to sign a quality arm like a Madsen which will cost money.  

Kuroda will get a contract similar to Jackson or Burhle and he is not worth that to an AL East team.

3 years 8 months ago

Okay…what?

He’s a really good pitcher. He’d be #3 on the Sox and #2 on the Yankees, and he probably won’t command too much money, nor a long-term deal. The premier teams you’re talking about both have incomplete pitching staffs. He has not been declining; his xFIP doesn’t show much of a trend, but it hovers around the mid-3.00s, which is exactly the kind of pitcher that the Sox/Yanks need. Bill James predicts a 3.57 ERA/3.89 FIP next year. 

3 years 8 months ago

Why are they interested? He’s good.
Being 37 doesn’t factor into this quite as much. He had a good season last year, and I doubt he regresses a whole lot. Money wise the Sox could give him 4/50 and be fine. He’d be a good addition for 10mil-20 mil over 1-2 years.

3 years 8 months ago

I get what you’re saying, but when only money is involved (especially figures under 10 million) for a guy that has shown he can eat innings (202 in 2011, 196 in 2010) and be someone that can provide stability in the back-end of the rotation, it’s worth the risk involved. The risk involved being he gets rocketed in the AL or gets injured. You take that risk with any pitcher coming over. Yes, the injury risk is slightly heightened because of his age and use, but money is something these teams are willing to part with in exchange for innings and stability. When the Yankees signed Colon and Garcia (albeit, for much less than what Kuroda may command) the risk was there that either or both would fail. Yet, they both proved their value to pitch innings and, up until around the All-Star break, both were pitching with consistent results. 

Harrison
3 years 8 months ago

I believe the red sox should move youkilis because it would open up some money and also when he was gone due to his injury the sox’s offense wasn’t hurt without him. We need a pitcher more badly than youkilis. We mineswell move him while we can.

Redsoxn8tion
3 years 8 months ago

I feel Youkillis is to productive to trade. Sure he’s been injured the past 2 seasons, but when he’s healthy, he can be lethal. If they don’t resign Papi, there’s no way they can get rid of Youk.

Harrison
3 years 8 months ago

We can move him bc the team showed in September that missing youkilis didn’t hurt us. I believe they hit like .285 as A team in September. We’d be fine without em. We ned pitching. Plus we could sign Beltran to help with the loss of youkilis gievn he’s dealt.

iamsynecdoche
3 years 8 months ago

We can move him bc the team showed in September that missing youkilis didn’t hurt us.

Errr… Okay, but not hurting is not the same as helping. Youk didn’t have a great year last year, and yes, pitching is more pressing, but I don’t think this is a good argument for moving him. And really, I think any argument that is based on September 2011’s “success” is going to be suspect.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Losing one of the better hitters in the game always hurts, but in the right deal (top of the rotation pitcher) I would be willing to move him, and you’re right that there are move that could be made to help offset the loss of Youkilis.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

“This could be a sign that Lucchino is willing to back off or that he is showing full confidence in his new management team of GM Ben Cherington and skipper Bobby Valentine.”

I have a hard time believing this.

3 years 8 months ago

The whole Bobby Valentine hiring kind of undermines that idea

3 years 8 months ago

 I’ve had a feeling that Youk’s days in Boston are numbered.

Benny
3 years 8 months ago

Should’ve kept Beltre and traded Youk.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Hindsight is 20/20

Redsoxn8tion
3 years 8 months ago

Good point Benny. Beltre is pretty awesome.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Or they should have kept Beltre & Youkilis & just never traded away their players for Gonzalez. That would have helped them with their depth (even if Casey Kelly isn’t going to be that great). They could have waited a year & there still would have been a lot of choices to sign if they wanted to have someone else at first.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Or they should have kept Beltre & Youkilis & just never traded away their players for Gonzalez. That would have helped them with their depth (even if Casey Kelly isn’t going to be that great). They could have waited a year & there still would have been a lot of choices to sign if they wanted to have someone else at first.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The Sox should have kept both Beltre and Martinez and traded
Ortiz and Youk.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

I honestly wouldn’t mind them moving youk. The problem with that would be Lavarnway is still a year or so away so there’s nobody to replace unless you’d like to see Lowrie/Aviles at third.

*Middlebrooks, not Lavarnway

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Lavarnway is a C/DH, I think you mean Middlebrooks and while he’s not a finished product he’s likely to a point where playing the the majors isn’t going to hurt his progression.  Lowrie wouldn’t be a terrible short term answer at 3B either.

That being said, I don’t want to push Youkilis out the door by any means, and it would have to be a very good return for me to feel okay about him going.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

haha, yea. My bad. Sleep deprivation is not my friend.

I wouldn’t want to push youk out the door either but he has been showing decline the past two years and its hard to see him being proficient and holding up at third anymore.

tpr1441
3 years 8 months ago

Youkilis is a huge cog in our offense. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that when he started tailing off due to his hernia, they went down the toilet. You’d have a hard time replacing his bat. Unless we go out and trade for or sign another impact right handed bat, it would be a horrible idea to trade him. 

I don’t see Lowrie (who’s made of glass) as anything more than a bench player, and I don’t think taking a rookie, who only has a handful of games above AA and throwing him in the pressure cooker that is Boston, as necessarily the best thing for his progression.

If we do trade him, we’d better have a good plan B in place and I don’t see Lowrie or Middlebrooks as the answer right now!

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Ellsburry- 9.6 WAR
Pedroia- 8.0 WAR
Gonzalez-6.6 WAR
Youk- 3.7 WAR

Youkillis wasn’t as valuable last year as you are making him sound.

tpr1441
3 years 8 months ago

I agree that Youkilis didn’t have a great year last year. Got off to a slow start and when he finally got going had hernia issues. However, that being said, when he’s right he’s one of the best hitters in the game. 

Just because the offense fared so well last year while Youkilis struggled, doesn’t mean his loss wouldn’t be a huge blow. There would be more pressure than ever on Crawford to rebound and he’d have to be moved up in the order, and for Ellsbury to repeat or better his MVP type season.I just have concerns that trading him would create a huge hole in the offense. He is our cleanup hitter. Even if Lowrie was the short term solution, he’s not a middle of the order type bat. Who’d hit behind Gonzalez? There isn’t any guarantee Ortiz comes back either. 

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Just to make things clear, I don’t feel the Red Sox should just rid themselves of Youk. I’d be open to trading him they could get a decent return. 

Also, given Lowrie’s injury problems, I would probably prefer Aviles as the short-term fix at third. If they were to trade Youk, thy may not lose as much as you may think; Crawford cannot be as bad as he was last year and we will most likely see more production from RF given that JD Drew is gone.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

He seems to be breaking down at third, he is really a first basemen.

Harrison
3 years 8 months ago

Our pitching is the problem. As a team they batted .285 I believe in September. So they really didnt miss him to much.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Losing Youkilis would definitely hurt Boston’s offense, but they are consistently one of the top offenses in the game, and if you can move him in a deal for a TOR pitcher I would be okay with it.  There are also other moves that could be made to help offset the loss of Youkilis’ bat, and getting another top flight starter would be huge for Boston.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Jed Lowrie can’t stay healthy & depending him to survive a whole year at 3rd would be idiotic. He won’t survive.

Middlebrooks has only played a few games in AAA & isn’t supposed to be ready till the end of 2012 or 2013.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Lowrie hasn’t stayed healthy in the past, but none of them were related injuries.  So I would want to have a reasonable backup, but I wouldn’t be too worried about starting the year with him at 3B.

Middlebrooks would be a better player a year from now, but he is at a point where it wouldn’t hurt his development any to be in the majors and while he wouldn’t replace Youkilis’ numbers he would, in all likelihood, step in and immediately be an above average 3B.

GoAwayNow
3 years 8 months ago

Lavarnway = Middlebrooks?

Michael Stodard
3 years 8 months ago

if Youkilis goes so do I. Valentine is a joke for a manager anyway that is why he hasn’t managed a team in 9 years. Red Sox are going backwards in big way

StanleyHudson
3 years 8 months ago

So based on what you said, Youkilis is the only saving hope for the Red Sox?

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

If you’re seriously that fickle I hope you do “go”

Brad426
3 years 8 months ago

Well, if Stodard goes, I go.

GoAwayNow
3 years 8 months ago

He managed a championship team recently. His on field managing is widely accepted as great. Your point is silly. Trading aging stars and investing in your future is actually known as moving forward.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Then by all accounts they shouldn’t even consider re-signing Ortiz because that’s exactly what he is — an aging star — even worse than Youkilis.

GoAwayNow
3 years 8 months ago

I agree. Take the picks and let Lavarnway DH.

Redsoxn8tion
3 years 8 months ago

Have faith Stodard. Don’t give up man.

3 years 8 months ago

I don’t really get this whole hatred thing for Valentine. The first year may be tough getting accustomed to everything (like it was with Girardi coming over after Torre), but I think he can be very valuable for you guys…and this is coming from a Yankee fan with no sarcasm intended whatsoever. I hate his commentary on ESPN but I think he will restore command to the Redsox (at least in the eyes of the owners, even though I truly liked Francona). If nothing else, he fills the gap for two years before you guys sign Farrell or whomever else may may peak Cherington/Lucchino’s interest. Your team has enough talent to make it far, with or without a good manager (despite last year’s results, which I will recognize as a fluke). I can’t stand Girardi, but I know that the talent on the team makes up for his mental errors and sometimes (all the time) over-managing of situations. 

3 years 8 months ago

I don’t really get this whole hatred thing for Valentine. The first year may be tough getting accustomed to everything (like it was with Girardi coming over after Torre), but I think he can be very valuable for you guys…and this is coming from a Yankee fan with no sarcasm intended whatsoever. I hate his commentary on ESPN but I think he will restore command to the Redsox (at least in the eyes of the owners, even though I truly liked Francona). If nothing else, he fills the gap for two years before you guys sign Farrell or whomever else may may peak Cherington/Lucchino’s interest. Your team has enough talent to make it far, with or without a good manager (despite last year’s results, which I will recognize as a fluke). I can’t stand Girardi, but I know that the talent on the team makes up for his mental errors and sometimes (all the time) over-managing of situations. 

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

I agree and disagree with you.  I think the Redsox are going in the wrong direction and that Bobby V was not the right choice- but because of his personality-not because he is a “joke”.  Valentine is an extremely successful business man outside baseball and was paid very well in Japan.  He could pretty much go back to Japan and be paid very well at any time so any team who wanted to hire him would have had to match that salary.  The only way he was managing in the Majors again was if he was compensated as he was in Japan or if he was offered a “dream job” like the Redsox.  Bobby V could have managed a team like the Nationals or Indians or even the Mariners this past year but would not budge on salary so he was not considered.

His absense from managing was strictly financial he does not need the money and earns a good living as an analyst and from his business ventures.  He also does alot of charity work to fill the days and was simply not going to consider managing unless certain financial considerations were met.  He could have had his pick of jobs if he would have accepted 2 years contracts paying one million per year.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

I agree and disagree with you.  I think the Redsox are going in the wrong direction and that Bobby V was not the right choice- but because of his personality-not because he is a “joke”.  Valentine is an extremely successful business man outside baseball and was paid very well in Japan.  He could pretty much go back to Japan and be paid very well at any time so any team who wanted to hire him would have had to match that salary.  The only way he was managing in the Majors again was if he was compensated as he was in Japan or if he was offered a “dream job” like the Redsox.  Bobby V could have managed a team like the Nationals or Indians or even the Mariners this past year but would not budge on salary so he was not considered.

His absense from managing was strictly financial he does not need the money and earns a good living as an analyst and from his business ventures.  He also does alot of charity work to fill the days and was simply not going to consider managing unless certain financial considerations were met.  He could have had his pick of jobs if he would have accepted 2 years contracts paying one million per year.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

Kuroda allowed 245 baserunners in 202 innings while giving up 24 homeruns.  That is without a DH in the NL West a division comprised of the Padres and Giants- who were 28th and 29th in the league in hitting “respectively”, the D-backs who were 19th and the Rockies who were 9th. He had 7 starts against the Padres and Giants and only 7 others against playoff teams-. He made ten starts against teams with winning records and 20+ against teams with losing records.

The same stats while pitching in the AL East pitching in Yankee stadium, Fenway Park and Camden Yards as opposed to Dodger Stadium, Petco and the Giants stadium against much better lineups with a DH will lead to a 6 era.  Take into account his age and a minimal decline and you see what would be a very big mistake.

3 years 8 months ago

You really think his ERA will double? What is this I don’t even…

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

Look at the homeruns allowed against weak lineups- do you expect him to suddenly not give up homeruns playing in smaller ball parks against the DH.  He is prone to it and will give up more and the fact he allows alot of baserunners will cause his era to rise dramatically. Do you not comprehend the designated hitter rule? Not only does it mean he would not face the pitcher in a lineup but it means that he will get an earlier hook than in the NL because there is no worry about the possibility of having to use pinch hitters.  Where in the NL a manager has to manage to avoid pulling a pitcher to early because they do not want to have to pinch hit at a key moment and lose a reliever earlier than necessary.  In the NL Kuroda could give up 3 runs in 6 innings with the 6th being his last where in the AL he would be pulled after 5 driving his era up.

Did you expect Joh Lackey to have a 6 era this year?  Did you expect Barry Zito to be so bad when he pitched for the Giants?

3 years 8 months ago

Fallacy of composition. You’re taking 2 random examples and applying it to all pitchers without any other relation. Not to mention Zito went from the AL to the NL. 

All things said, those wouldn’t amount to a doubling of his ERA. Even if his ERA went up to the 4s, he’d still be of great value to the Sox and Yanks, considering who they had in their rotation last year.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

I don’t see how he would be a “great value” if his ERA is in the 4′ (4.20 or below vs something much higher). He’s not going to be cheap. Hughes had a bad year largely because of his injury. However, he has youth and being ‘relatively’ inexpensive on his side. AJ is there simply because we can’t get rid of him. I would not be opposed to Kuroda provided he can be had for something like 1/$12 mil. We can make due with what we have and explore opportunities during the trade market when some big name pitchers might be on the trading block if their teams are out of it.

There is absolute value in letting Hughes fight for a rotation spot and going with CC, Nova, Garcia and Burnett. Someone has to be a significant upgrade (meaning a true #2) to warrant a multi year $10 mil annual salary.

GoAwayNow
3 years 8 months ago

I’m no expert, but I’d guess he gets 1yr 5-8mil or 2 at 10-15. Either way that’s not much money. Both AL East teams need back end starters to avoid making the big mistake (i.e. Wilson).

3 years 8 months ago

And IMO Kuroda is a middle-of-the-rotation guy for either team.

Brad426
3 years 8 months ago

Relative to the other options on the market, like Wilson, Darvish, Buehrle. I’m not saying he’ll be an ace, but I don’t think he has declined and he eats innings and both teams need a starter.

Edit: This was in reply to yankeeaddiction.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

It is the cost- he will not be cheap and will look to be paid similar to the 12 million he earned last year. His contract will be similar to Buehrle and that of Edwin Jackson and those two names represent better options for both teams.  I am not knocking Kuroda but saying it is obviously an awful fit for the Yankees and Redsox.  Kuroda would add alot to an NL team needing a number 3.  The cost vs the return for the Yankees or Redsox is too much when you consider the other options.

Brad426
3 years 8 months ago

He’s looking for a 1-year deal worth $12-$13M. So way cheaper than a multi-year deal for any of the other options out there.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Kuroda and Beurhle are short term options, while Darvish and Wilson are more long term answers. M

Brad426
3 years 8 months ago

Buehrle is looking for a 3-year deal in the same $13M per year range, so (doing the math real quick) he would cost 3 times as much as Kuroda.

3 years 8 months ago

Kuroda is at the top of my wish-list for the Sox, if he’d come to the east coast. Solid pitcher and the money won’t be a problem since he’s only going to get a 1-2 year deal. I just want us to be prepared to spend big on pitchers after next season.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

I’d prefer Oswalt personally, but I don’t think Kuroda would be a bad pitcher to consider.

3 years 8 months ago

Oswalt would be #2 on my list. Only reason i’d prefer Kuroda is because he won’t be asking for any long-term deals. I think Oswalt will get 3 years.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Oswalt has had back problems, I don’t think the Sox want to take a chance on him getting hurt with the problems they have had lately with their pitchers staying healthy.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The only negative I see with Kuroda and Oswalt is that they are coming from the NL to the AL East. There haven’t been too players make that transition lately.

yankeeaddiction
3 years 8 months ago

There is no way he is only getting one year and why is this so hard for you to understand.  The Dodgers just signed Capuano to replace him one reason he was going to be much more expensive.  He is much better than Capuano and its acknowledged he will command more.  John Lackey, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett, Ortiz will likely be resigned, you will sign a closer or an expensive bullpen piece, do you think Bard, Ellsbury, Lester and Bucholz are going to forgo raises via arbitration?  You will have no money to spend signing a guy like Kuroda because any deal he signs will cost a minimum in 2013 and likely into 2014 as well.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

While I agree with everything you said, Lester & Buchholz are signed to contracts (which to do increase), so it’s not arbitration for them.

The worst is the increase in Gonzalez & Crawford’s pay.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

While I agree with everything you said, Lester & Buchholz are signed to contracts (which to do increase), so it’s not arbitration for them.

The worst is the increase in Gonzalez & Crawford’s pay.

3 years 8 months ago

I am convinced you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lackey, Crawford, and Beckett are all already signed. I think Tim predicted the Sox have around $23-30 mill to spend (after arbitration has been taken into account) with a constant salary. Would you rather not sign Kuroda, move Aceves to the rotation, and sign Madson who will get more years/money than Kuroda?

And the Dodgers are irrelevant. They’re in a financial mess, their owner is corrupt, their team is in the process of being sold, and their GM is Ned Colletti. 

3 years 8 months ago

I am convinced you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lackey, Crawford, and Beckett are all already signed. I think Tim predicted the Sox have around $23-30 mill to spend (after arbitration has been taken into account) with a constant salary. Would you rather not sign Kuroda, move Aceves to the rotation, and sign Madson who will get more years/money than Kuroda?

And the Dodgers are irrelevant. They’re in a financial mess, their owner is corrupt, their team is in the process of being sold, and their GM is Ned Colletti. 

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

Well of course Larry isn’t going to go. GM Bobby V is already going to be there.

3 years 8 months ago

Cafardo wonders if the club would part with Kevin Youkilis in a bigger deal.
I guess, I could wonder out loud the possibility that Youk is going to be traded to the Orioles, since Duquette did draft him in 2001. It’s possible. Also, if it happens, this headline could be written, the Duke trades for Youk which cause O’s fans to puke. Fortunately, the Duke had stated he isn’t looking for corner infield help, plus it’s my opinion, the O’s and Red Sox are not good trade partners.

lefty177
3 years 8 months ago

Let me just play devil’s adovocate, who would the Red Sox want from the O’s? I feel like even though Youk has been hurt, his stock is still pretty high, would they want Reimold? Scott?

Rabbitov
3 years 8 months ago

Lefty = Angel and lefty177 = devil ????

3 years 8 months ago

I’d only trade Youk if we get a significant return; which I doubt we will get, given his injury history in recent years. I still have faith in him though.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 8 months ago

I’d rather left Ortiz go than Youk.

Let Ortiz go, which will allow Youk, Gonzo, and other players to rotate the DH spot. Middlebrooks can come up if he’s ready, or Lowrie can also play 3rd, or Lavarnway can DH. Allowing Youk to rest in the DH spot is likely to help him stay healthy.

There are just so many more options the manager can have without a permanent DH hogging the spot.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Youk doesn’t seem like the type of player to be a DH.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 8 months ago

I’d rather left Ortiz go than Youk.

Let Ortiz go, which will allow Youk, Gonzo, and other players to rotate the DH spot. Middlebrooks can come up if he’s ready, or Lowrie can also play 3rd, or Lavarnway can DH. Allowing Youk to rest in the DH spot is likely to help him stay healthy.

There are just so many more options the manager can have without a permanent DH hogging the spot.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

“Middlebrooks can come up if he’s ready” He’s not and based off his strike rates i doubt if he’ll ever be.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Lots of guys who “strike out too much” have very good careers.  Also, all of the scout guys have said that they see him as at least a major league regular.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

By putting strikes out tomuch in quotes are you implying that he doesnt? And scouts are concerned about his strikeout walk rate just ask sickels

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

“too much” would imply that he strikes out so much that it will keep from playing.  He strikes out a lot but not so much that he wont play.  Sickels is more down on Middlebrooks than anyone, so I find it convenient that you choose to take his opinion over everyone else’s, but regardless, even Sickels doesn’t say that it will keep him from becoming a major leaguer, simply that they are a concern (and that was preseason).

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

I dont think it does i would say the same thing about austin jackson and mark reynolds. Yes using sickels was conveniant but not for the reason you think his top 20 list and top 20 in review are available reports that are easy to find. While you have to pay for the words of most other scouts with the exception of law sometimes.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Yeah, I don’t pay for any of that stuff either, but they all have chats that are open to anyone and they talk prospects on Twitter all the time.  There are also guys like Marc Hulet and Mike Newman who do scouting stuff for Fangraphs and all of their stuff is free there, and none of those guys are as down on Middlebrooks as Sickels.

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

Thanks i’ll follow those guys on twitter now. What exactly did they project him as. Ill buy into callis report that he’s not an elite prospect but is an above average defender and fielder. 

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

I’m going to answer your question about what the other guys said about Middlebrooks here because we’re starting to run out of room.

“Klaw: Very real (his break out this year). Projects as an above-avg third baseman.”

“Marc Hulet: A team like Boston is always going to be looking for a veteran guy unless the prospect forces their hand and is the clear better value. I think Middlebrooks could be that guy.”

Will Lingo in his write-up for the AFL players for BA said: “Middlebrooks has taken a slow and steady development path through the Red Sox system, and his well-rounded offensive and defensive skills should have him ready for a big league look next year.”

“Jim Callis: Wouldn’t call him an elite prospect, but the ceiling is there for him to be an above-average hitter and defender.”

J.J. Cooper at BA was asked to rank various 3B prospects a couple different times and said: “Rough order, just my personal opinion, Middlebrooks, Olt, Castellanos, Arenado, Cowart, Martinez. Not a real bad prospect in that bunch.” and “Ceiling is Sano, Castellanos, Middlebrooks, but if I’m ranking them as prospects I’m going Middlebrooks, Sano, Castellanos.”

jjs91
3 years 8 months ago

“Middlebrooks can come up if he’s ready” He’s not and based off his strike rates i doubt if he’ll ever be.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Bottom line is Middlebrooks doesn’t project as a big leaguer at this time.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

According to who? See my post above to jjs91.