Mets Revamping The Bullpen

Bullpen of

Jenks
Affeldt/Beimel
Cruz
Smith
Stokes/Ayala
Feliciano

looks pretty good to me.

I would love to work a deal for Jenks and Swisher. I know the cost would be ridiculous, but if Jenks isn't elite (mariano, pappelbon...according to some of the people on this blog, Heilman?)...he's only missing it by a little bit. Swisher is going to have great OBP, he'll probably have a bounce back year and he can play a corner spot this year and possibly move to first base after Delgado leaves in 2010...make it happen!

CL- K-Rod
SU- Cruz
RP- Affeldt
RP- Smith
RP- Stokes
RP- Feliciano

I think the Mets will end up with K-Rod. No one is going to give him the $5/75 he wants. He'll settle for no more than 4/$60, and if the Cardinals, Rangers and Indians all pass on him, which is likely, he will be completely at the Mets mercy.

"Trade us something sweet for Jose Valverde."

I'd do Duaner Sanchez and a used toothbrush for Valverde. That's about it.

I wonder if the Sox would be interested in Church, it seem like they can use a left handed bat...I know it would be Church plus, but maybe...

A while back I was floating the idea of a package around Beltran to the White Sox for Swisher, Jenks and Dye. I thought it made sense from the Mets perspective at least, the salaries seem to match up. I know Beltran has a no trade clause, but it seemed to fit. I don't know what else the Sox would need to make that deal, but I can't assume it would be too much.

"I like the Jenks acquisition. Anyone want to prediict what it would take to bring Jenks to NY."

Good question, but looking at Jenks' numbers and the fact that he is still young and cheap for the next few years, Im saying discussions would have to start with Murphy. After that, im not sure they would have what KW is looking for, unless of course F-Mart becomes available.....and I just dont see that happening. Carp? Eh, they have a 1B in Brandon Allen who is the same age and has more power, upside than Carp. I believe keith law desrcibed niese as a guy who can be a good middle rotation guy.

The fact that jenks is even being mentioned kinda tells me that the Sox think Aaron Poreda is destined for the pen as opposed to the starting rotation.

Any one else think the Mets should try to sign Derek Lowe and/or Ryan Dempster strictly because they are starters who once were great closers... say a closer goes down and the rotation is functioning well ... then one of them can obtain the closer role for a while because they do have the experience and the team wouldnt be affected as much in the pen as they were this year when Wags went down...

Well I am glad you don't like it JB, cuz you are not getting Beltran anyway. I'd rather spend 160 million between K-Rod and Manny then trade you Beltran for 3 guys who are middle of the pack at their position. First of all, I want nothing to do with Dye, at all, trying to catch flyballs in a big outfield. I like Swisher, but I don't do Beltran for Swisher and Jenks, and Dye has no value to me. So I will pass on that one.

People also seem to think the Mets bullpen collapsed when Wags went down. Nope. They stunk before that, they stunk after that. A closer is not the problem, the whole bullpen is a problem. Just get a reliable closer that doesn't cost 8 figures and fix the rest of the pen. People don't learn. Everybdoy last year said that Santana would bring the Mets a championship gaurunteed. I said he was just a huge bandaid, and nobody wanted to hear it. K-Rod is the same thing, only he is not nearly as good of a bandaid as Johan is. I am not even sure that signing K-Rod and doing nothing else improves this team over the 08 opening day Mets.

Agreed on all fronts, besides the offensive blackhole at catcher. I am fine with 100 games of 700 OPS and good leadership skills and defense from Brian. You will probably get an 800 OPS and much less defense in the 50 or so games that Castro plays, so I can live with that, especially in the 8 spot. 2B needs to be addressed, although I will say this. If the Mets 2B solution is giving Orlando Hudson 5/50, I would rather just keep Castillo. I don't want to eat Luis contract, just so they can spend 50 million on a longer term, just as bad of a contract for another 2B coming off injuries on the wrong side of 30.

Personally, the Sox have no shot of getting Murphy straight up from me if I am the Mets. There are only like 5 alternatives that don't require you to give up your best young player/prospect. The more I think about it, the more I am for just signing Juan Cruz and telling him he is the closer. Control problems be damned. The guy has sick stuff, and he has posted back to back good seasons. His k/9 is so impressive. His bb/9, not so much, but hopefully they can work on that.

But see, why is Putz such a sure bet over Cruz? You say Cruz is too risky, but isn't it just as risky trading away some of the only prospects you have left for JJ Putz, who had a couple of solid years in his life and his coming off injuries? Is it more risky then throwing huge dollars at a guy like K-Rod, despite his postseason failures, his declining peripherals, his declinings FB velocity, and increasing chanegup velocity? Cruz has thrown up two consecutive very good years, so why bring up his career whip, while you only talk about Putz's last two years? If you want to trade for Jermaine Dye, and take on hios contract, and watch him wobble around RF like Luis Castillo for the next few years, then be my guest. I will take Ibanez, who costs nothing but money. Or Rivera, who costs nothing but money. There is almost no scenario at all where I would trade Beltran though, other then straight up for Grady Sizemore or for BJ Upton and some prospects. In otherwords, situations that aren't very realistic.

You bring up Juan Cruz's whip, and try to crush him, although his whip the previous 2 seasons is a bit better then K-Rod. JJ Putz had a 1.60 whip this year. Bobby Jenks may be a beast, but if I am choosing between signing Cruz for 5 million dollars a year, or trading for Jenks, giving up talent that we cannot afford to spare, and then paying him huge dollars in 2 years, I am choosing Cruz, no doubt about it. I find it funny how just because Cruz is not a "closer", he is this big risk, while signing trading for an injured JJ Putz coming off a terrible year is some lock. Or signing K-Rod to a 5 year deal is some lock. What people don't seem to realize is that signing K-Rod to a 5 year deal has the potential to end up as one of the worst contracts given out in baseball history. There is no reason, to ever, no matter what, give a relief pitcher a 5 year deal. 4 is bad enough, 5 is literally asking for trouble.

Metsobsessed cant agree more with your first sentence... Nrmaxx88 has a very poor knowledge of baseball indeed... for hitters all his cares about is OPS look at all of his posts regarding a hitter and each one he brings up OPS its quite funny ... He also calls people biased when they suggest their opinion on a teams upgrade and then comes out and makes himself look like a fool by saying to upgrade with downgrades... The post right above proves my claim ... Know one i no would who has a sense of knowldege of baseball would rather have Juan Cruz over K Rod or Putz...

Nrmaxx88
why the sudden urge to take Raul Ibanez you once told me my opinion was idiotic because i suggested the Mets sign Ibanez but you said NO because he is a lefty and im pretty sure you brought up OPS like you do in every other post (THERE IS MORE TO BASEBALL THAN OPS)... all i wanna no is why the sudden change in opinion... if my idea was idiotic... then wat does that make yours?

I know that Putz was injured and that you are taking a chance on him, but even with his injury his WHIP over last 3 years is 1.0...Cruz's is 1.3, outside of the injury last year, you really can't make any coherent argument for Cruz over Putz as a pitcher.

Also, out of curiosity...wouldn't you think that if Cruz was so spectacular, at some point he would have the chance to save more than the 1 game he has saved in his entire career. Hell in the last 2 years he has 12 holds...the DBacks weren't bringing him in in any pressure situations...do you even think to wonder why? At the start of the season he was probably the DBacks 3rd or 4th option out of the bullpen, but you're comfortable with him being the best guy out of the NY bullpen? It doesn't make sense. I'm not advocating a 5 year deal for KROD, what I am saying is that all things being equal they will go with a guy that has proven himself, like KROD, Putz, Jenks or Fuentes.

Do you think Ibanez is going to look better in the outfield than Dye? Have you seen Ibanez play? I know that everyone is up in arms about holding on to prospects...but really you should be up in arms about holding on to good prospects. The Mets don't have a ton of those. To be honest, I don't understand the hope placed in FMART, correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't have great speed, great power, he hasn't hit for a crazy average and he has an injury history at 20...I know he's young, but he isn't exactly an Evan Longoria or BJ Upton type prospect. If his upside is Alex Rios, than I would have no problem trading him for say...Alex Rios. The Mets don't have the financial constraints of most other teams, I'm not advocating that they spend indiscriminately, but I'm not going to freak if they put a package around Eddie Kunz for JJ Putz.

I don't disagree with your point for a team like Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc. They have budget constraints that might necessitate they take a chance on a guy like Cruz...however the Mets aren't in that situation, they can afford to bring in a guy like KROD and if it is "one of the worst contracts in history" they will have wasted 10% of their budget, it's hardly insurmountable. In fact they can get Cruz, KROD and Manny and CC if they want, they have that kind of money, they might not spend it, but it's there if need be.

I agree with chico but I only think you trade one of the few decent prospects you have left for a sure thing. I don't want to see a Murphy, Niese or FMart going to the white sox for Vazquez. I'll trade them for quality pitching only, such as Peavy or even Jenks/Ryan/Putz. I agree Cruz hasn't been given the chance to close and throwing him into a situation like the Mets probably isn't the right way to go.

Let me start with this. I am home after a long night, which included some drinking, and possibly some smoking. I may not remember posting this in the morning. Therefore, I cannot be held accountable for what I say right now. Baseballfanatic.... You're opinion means little to me. I don't recall if I went after you because of an Ibanez suggestion, maybe, maybe not. More likely it was one of the 5 times you insisted the Mets needed to trade prospects for Gerald Laird or sign Ivan Rodriguez. Anyway, I only brought up Ibanez because somebody else mentioned his name first. I prefer Manny, but if not Manny, I would like a shorter term guy, like Ibanez or Rivera. No 5 year deals for Burrell or Dunn. I like Ibanez, but I don't love him. Certainly wouldn't be upset if he is signed on a 2/3 year deal. I actually am positive that I never bashed you for suggesting Ibanez, and I definitely didn't because he is a lefty. Sure, I like OPS. It is flawed, but to me, it paints a decent picture of a player offensively. Certainly more then .BA or K's. I also like RC, VORP, and a variety of other statistics. I appreciate the critique of the stats I like to use, especially from a person who doesn't even care to look at the stats.

Chico, sure have seen Ibanez play. If Dye were the FA and were likely to be available on a 2 or 3 year deal, I wouldn't mind him. But I have no interest in giving up prospects for Dye, who is aging, and seemingly breaking down.

You keep saying it would make sense for Cleveland or Milwaukee, but not for the Mets. I don't understand the logic? We have money, so we might as well waste it foolishly on long term contracts for closing pitchers?

When I say that it makes sense for Milwaukee, I mean that they may have to take a chance with a guy like Cruz and hope that he can handle the role. The Mets don't have to take that chance. If you notice I'm not arguing that they should sign KROD or Fuentes over Cruz, I'm arguing that they should explore Jenks or Putz, two great (and I emphasize that) great bullpen arms. In the absence of that, Minaya will sign Fuentes or KROD. I don't know that Cruz can't approximate them, but I don't know that he can either. No one does.

As far as Ibanez goes, I think he's about ready to fall off a cliff and you're right if you're going to give him a 3 year deal, just give one to Manny. I didn't advocate trading prospects for Dye, although...really I don't see which prospects the Mets really need to protect. I mentioned trading Beltran, who is no doubt an amazing center fielder for 3 guys that can fill holes. 1 - Dye can be a middle of the order right handed bat. Swisher can play an OK CF and is likely to bounce back well offensively and will approximate Beltran's OPS, even with a horrendous 2008, over the last 3 years he is only .080 off from Beltran's OPS. Jenks...is great. The dude is just a beast and gives them the elite bullpen arm they need. This line-up would have a real major league bat at every position:

SS Reyes
CF Swisher
3B Wright
1B Delgado
LF Dye
RF Church
C Molina (I can hope)
2B Murphy

I know it won't happen, but it's not as though it's a ridiculous downgrade either.
BTW, we're going to have to agree to disagree on Schneider, watching him every day soured me on him. I don't think he called a great game and his defense really seemed pedestrian. The Mets were middle of the road in WP's, Schneider was OK in CS, not great and his CERA wasn't particularly good. I don't think his lack of offense is made up for by his largely pedestrian defense. My goal for the team is to either have a solid bat, or a super defensive player at every position. For instance, I don't need a guy like Reyes at SS, but his replacement had better play defense like Ozzie Smith. I would put up with pedestrian offense for a guy like Jose Molina, but the problem is Molina's offense is horrible. Bengie Molina looks comparable to Schneider defensively and he is a better hitter. He's got about .090 higher OPS than Schneider over the last 3 years. By that metric he is as far above Schneider as Beltran is over Swisher.

Beltran has a no trade clause so he isn't going anywhere. I would like to see a swisher/Jenks package go to the Mets though. Even though the mets prospects aren't highly praised, they still have potential. Especially Holt and FMart. I' don't agree with holding on to all the prospects, but only giving them away in a deal that can't be addressed through FA or a deal that going to bring a quality, proven arm. I can't imagine any major trades however since the FA market is not as bad as last year. Heres what I see:

lf- Swisher(trade Evans, Heilman and schoenweis)
cf-Beltran
Rf-Church
3b-Wright
ss-Reyes
2b-Murphy(if castillo is traded)
1b-Delgado
c-Schneider/Castro

Sanatana
Lowe
Maine
Pelfrey
Niese/Freddy Garcia

Fuentes
Feliciano
Beimel
Smith
Sanchez
Stokes
Ayala/Cruz

Also I don't think catching is one of the mets biggest concerns right now. Schneider did look pretty mediocre defensively last year but he will look better in 09.

SS- Reyes
2B- HUDSON
3B- Wright
1B- Delgado
CF- Beltran
RF- Church
LF- Ibanez/Tatis
C- Schnieder/Castro

Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Perez
Lowe or make a push for C.C. with the money Citi Bank is paying the Mets for the nameing rights