Mets Rumors

Morning Market Chatter: Verlander, Claudio, Asdrubal, Hand

By Jeff Todd | July 31, 2017 at 10:37am CDT

While the Tigers have drawn interest in Justin Verlander during the run-up to the deadline, there are no active talks as of this morning, per MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (via Twitter). As Morosi notes, that’s of added significance given that Verlander possesses full no-trade rights — meaning he’d need to be afforded some time to approve any deal that might take place. Most recent indications have been that Verlander would not end up moving this summer, with his expensive contract and the Tigers’ relatively lofty trade requests posing barriers. But his recent run of solid outings had perhaps made him a more intriguing target, and it remains possible that a late-breaking move could occur. That’s quite unlikely, though, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (Twitter link) who hears that neither Verlander nor outfielder Justin Upton will be on the move today.

More market chatter:

The Rangers are “reluctantly willing” to engage in trade talks on reliever Alex Claudio, per Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News (via Twitter). He becomes the latest Texas player to hit the rumor wire, joining fellow relievers Jeremy Jeffress and Keone Kela (though as Grant notes, Jeffress may just end up being DFA’ed). Among those hurlers, Claudio — a 25-year-old southpaw — is likely the one that Texas is least inclined to deal. While he doesn’t record many strikeouts, Claudio allows few free passes and has turned into a groundball monster over the past two seasons. He’s also cheap and controllable for four more seasons. Grant hints that Texas could consider attempting to package Claudio with Yu Darvish if that’d move the needle significantly in the effort to achieve a big return for the star hurler. That could indeed present an intriguing potential package for a team eyeing Darvish, providing a quality and controllable pen lefty to go with the rental starter, though such a swap would no doubt still be tricky to work out.
Despite prior indications that the Mets would find a taker for Asdrubal Cabrera by the deadline, the team is “way less optimistic” of that possibility today, per Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter). Indeed, that may well extend to other veterans (beyond those already dealt, of course), per Marc Carig of Newsday (via Twitter). As Sherman explains, hanging onto Cabrera past the deadline doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t be traded, as he and other Mets veterans carry large enough salaries (on short enough terms) to clear waivers in August. Of course, making deals after the non-waiver deadline generally means working under additional constraints with reduced leverage. And in the Mets’ case, keeping the veterans would complicate the club’s roster plans.
The Padres are still telling interested teams they will hold firm on their asking price or wait to deal lefty Brad Hand, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter). That’s unsurprising at this point, though perhaps some have believed San Diego would begin to draw back the sticker price on deadline day. So far as has been reported, no teams are ready to hand over the kind of top-tier talent the Pads want for the controllable and excellent southpaw.
The Twins now seem likely to deal righty Brandon Kintzler as the volume of phone calls increases, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand suggests on Twitter. The opposite is true of Marlins starter Dan Straily, Feinsand tweets. While Straily continues to be discussed, there hasn’t been any evident traction.

Red Sox “Moving Closer” To Deal For Addison Reed

By Jeff Todd | July 31, 2017 at 9:21am CDT

Mets righty Addison Reed was never supposed to end up on the block; he was supposed to be setting up Jeurys Familia while helping the team back to the postseason. Obviously, that hasn’t worked out as hoped, though Familia’s injury has opened the door for Reed to take on a yet-more prominent role in New York. While his most recent run as a closer doesn’t move the needle on his value all that much, Reed’s successes in the ninth make for icing on the cake of a successful run with the Mets. On the year, he has posted a 2.57 ERA with 8.8 K/9 and just 1.1 BB/9 while earning a reasonable $7.75MM.

That very same success is almost certainly going to land Reed elsewhere by the end of the day, as he’s the top rental reliever available. We’ll track developments in his market in this post:

Nothing is done yet, but the Red Sox are “moving closer” to striking a deal to acquire Reed, per Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter).

Earlier Updates

The Indians are at least dabbling in the market for Reed, according to Ken Rosenthal of MLB Network (via Twitter). Cleveland seems to be angling for ways to add impactful pieces rather than just filling needs, per the report; of course, that also makes it fair to wonder whether the organization will really drive the bidding on any particular players. Clearly, the Indians don’t need to upgrade the back of their bullpen, but evidently see the merit in considering that possibility — perhaps as an alternative to adding a starter.
As of last night, the Red Sox were in talks involving Reed. While that connection seemed to be gaining some momentum at one point, it became apparent that there were still other organizations involved.

Red Sox, Mets Discussing Addison Reed Trade

By Steve Adams | July 30, 2017 at 5:33pm CDT

5:32pm: Boston has also “kicked the tires” on Twins righty Brandon Kintzler, per Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer-Press (via Twitter). The interest in Kintzler was noted recently, though it’s notable that the sides are evidently still in touch to some degree with the deadline drawing near. Still, it seems he and others are not the top priority for the Sox.

2:47pm: There’s one other team that is also a “serious suitor” for Reed at this time, tweets Newsday’s Marc Carig. Still, though, nothing is close at present, WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford notes on Twitter.

2:01pm: Earlier this morning, MLB Network’s Ken Rosenthal reported that Mets closer Addison Reed was a “focus” for the Red Sox, and there’s increasing talk about Reed potentially heading to Boston in a deal. Sean McAdam of BostonSportsJournal.com reports that talks between the two sides have begun to heat up, though a deal isn’t yet close to finalization. ESPN’s Buster Olney adds that there are “about five” teams left in the running for Reed, though the Red Sox are the only one he specifies by name.

The Boston Globe’s Alex Speier, meanwhile, reports that the Sox are focused solely on late-inning relief help at this point. According to Speier, Reed is “at or near the top” of Boston’s wishlist, while deals for left-handers Justin Wilson (Tigers) and Brad Hand (Padres) are unlikely.

The 28-year-old Reed has dominated opposing hitters since donning a Mets jersey in 2015, working to a pristine 2.09 ERA with 9.9 K/9 against 1.5 BB/9 in 142 innings. He’s spent much of the season closing for the Mets with Jeurys Familia unavailable (first due to a suspension, then an injury), but he’d shift into a setup role for Craig Kimbrel were the Sox and Mets to complete a deal. Reed would be complemented by righties Matt Barnes, Heath Hembree and Joe Kelly (who is nearing a return from the disabled list) as well as left-handers Fernando Abad and Robby Scott. A free agent at season’s end, Reed is earning $7.75MM in 2017 and is still owed roughly $2.7MM of that sum through the end of the regular season.

Mets Designate Josh Edgin

By Jeff Todd | July 30, 2017 at 2:24pm CDT

The Mets have designated lefty Josh Edgin for assignment, per a club announcement. His roster spot will go to just-acquired righty AJ Ramos.

Edgin, 30, mostly functions as a lefty specialist; he could still end up landing with a contender in such a function, either by trade or by claim. He is earning just $675K for the 2017 season, with two more years of arb control remaining after the current campaign.

Though he maintains a 3.75 ERA, Edgin’s peripherals aren’t quite as rosy,with 6.6 K/9 to go with 4.4 BB/9 and a 47.4% groundball rate. His average velocity has never recovered from the 1.5 mph or so he lost upon returning from Tommy John surgery. And he has allowed a .280/.372/.400 batting line to left-handed hitters on the year, which is not optimal for a situation southpaw.

That said, Edgin has performed much better historically against same-handed hitters. And his swinging-strike rate still sits at 9.7%, the same as it was last year when he managed 11 strikeouts in his 10 1/3 innings. On the whole, particularly given the salary considerations, it seems reasonable to anticipate that Edgin will land on a MLB roster before his period of DFA limbo expires.

Bullpen Rumors: Hand, Reed, Wilson, Britton, Givens, Kintzler

By Steve Adams | July 30, 2017 at 11:33am CDT

The Padres’ asking price for lefty Brad Hand remain a key factor to watch over the next 24 hours. ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter links) had suggested the ask was dropping, but later cited executives from other teams that indicated San Diego has not moved. Regardless of what the Friars are seeking, Crasnick says that most of the offers received thus far have included players with “limited ceilings” — prospects ranked in the 15 to 20 range within their respective organizations. The Padres’ front office hasn’t deemed any of those offers worth considering, and Crasnick notes that chairman Ron Fowler’s comments about being willing to hold onto Hand into the offseason weren’t posturing.

Mets Acquire AJ Ramos

By Steve Adams | July 28, 2017 at 10:08pm CDT

10:08pm: The Marlins have announced the trade.

10:02pm: The Mets are sending minor league right-hander Merandy Gonzalez and minor league outfielder Ricardo Cespedes to the Marlins to complete the trade, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter).

9:48pm: In a surprising development, the Mets have struck a deal to acquire closer AJ Ramos from the Marlins, reports MLB Network’s Ken Rosenthal (on Twitter). The Mets are sellers at this year’s deadline, but Ramos remains under control through the 2018 season, and the Mets have reportedly been intent on contending next season, so Ramos will help in that regard.

The Mets are likely to trade closer Addison Reed, an impending free agent, between now and Monday’s non-waiver deadline, so they stood to lose their top 2018 setup option either to free agency or trade. Ramos could actually close for the Mets until Jeurys Familia is healthy enough to return, then ultimately settle into a setup role. He’s earning $6.55MM in 2017 and will be eligible for arbitration once more this winter before hitting the open market after the 2018 season.

Ramos has a solid, if unspectacular 3.63 ERA through 39 2/3 innings this season, but he’s been a generally dominant option out of the Miami ’pen dating back to 2014. Over the past four seasons, Ramos has pitched to a combined 2.61 ERA with 10.6 BB/9, 4.7 BB/9 and a 40.6 percent ground-ball rate through 238 innings. His lack of control, of course, isn’t ideal for a late-inning reliever, but Ramos has consistently been able to strikeout between 10 and 11 batters per nine frames, which has helped to mitigate many of those free passes.

With Ramos in the fold for the 2018 campaign, next year’s Mets bullpen looks like it’ll be anchored by Familia, Ramos, Jerry Blevins and perhaps rookie right-hander Paul Sewald, who has averaged 11 K’s per nine innings himself through 41 innings in his first taste of big league action.

Gonzalez and Cespedes rank ninth and 22nd, respectively, on the Mets’ midseason top 30 prospects list over at MLB.com. Through a combined 106 innings between two Class-A levels, the 21-year-old Gonzalez has worked to a 1.78 ERA with 7.6 K/9, 1.8 BB/9 and a 41 percent ground-ball rate. MLB.com’s Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo write that his fastball sits around 93 mph but can reach 96-97 mph when needed, and the young righty also has an above-average curveball with an improving changeup. Gonzalez is listed at 6’0″ and 216 pounds, so he’s a bit short for a starter, though that frame is hardly any sort of clear indicator that he’s better suited for a relief role.

The 19-year-old Cespedes has been facing much older competition across short-season Class-A and full-season Class-A ball this year, but he hasn’t fared well at the plate against his more experienced opponents. Through 108 plate appearances — he’s spent a fair bit of time on the minor league DL — Cespedes has batted .255/.283/.294. Ugly numbers aside, Cespedes was inked for a fairly sizable $725K bonus out of the Dominican Republic as a 16-year-old and draws praise from Callis and Mayo for his yet untapped tools.

MLB.com’s report notes that while he’ll need a lot to go right to reach his ceiling, the upside for Cespedes is a five-tool right fielder. He’s playing center field right now but has the arm for right along with bat speed, occasional pop and at least average speed. Cespedes will join fellow 19-year-old Brayan Hernandez, acquired in the Marlins’ David Phelps trade with Seattle, as a toolsy outfielder with plenty of upside that could be several years from the big leagues but gives the team plenty to dream on as he develops.

Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.

Mets Activate Neil Walker, Place T.J. Rivera On DL With Partial UCL Tear

By Steve Adams | July 28, 2017 at 6:07pm CDT

6:07pm: The Mets are hopeful that Rivera can avoid Tommy John surgery and will wait to see how his elbow responds to the PRP for awhile before making any type of determination, tweets MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo. It should be noted that the recovery time for position players that undergo Tommy John surgery is shorter than it is for pitchers, though the procedure would still leave Rivera on the shelf for several months and, depending on its timing, could potentially impact his availability for Spring Training.

5:10pm: The Mets activated second baseman Neil Walker from the 10-day disabled list today but were immediately hit with yet another dose of daunting injury news. New York announced that infielder T.J. Rivera is headed to the disabled list with a partial tear of the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow.

There’s no word yet on exactly how Rivera incurred the injury, but Mike Puma of the New York Post tweets that he’s already undergone a platelet-rich plasma injection. There’s been no suggestion yet that Rivera is pondering Tommy John surgery or a “primary repair” operation like the one Seth Maness and Mitch Harris underwent last year, though presumably, one or both of those treatments could become options, depending on the extent of the tear and how Rivera’s elbow responds to the PRP. James Wagner of the New York Times tweets that Rivera has been dealing with elbow soreness recently and wearing a tennis elbow wrap, but his discomfort has worsened in recent days.

Rivera, 28, has seen his name floated as a possible trade candidate — particularly when the Red Sox were on the hunt for infield help prior to the acquisition of Eduardo Nunez — and while he never seemed an especially likely candidate to move, this injury all but ensures that he will stay put. Since making his Major League debut with the Mets last season, Rivera has batted a healthy .304/.335/.445 with eight homers and 13 doubles in 344 trips to the plate. He’s played about 250 innings at both second base and third base for the Mets, while also logging 150 frames at first base and even nine in left field.

Unlike Rivera, the 31-year-old Walker is a much more definitive trade candidate. While he’s been out since mid-June with a partial tear in his hamstring, he was hitting a robust .270/.352/.468 with nine homers, 13 doubles and a pair of triples in 254 plate appearances at the time of his injury. There aren’t many teams looking for short-term help at second base right now — though Walker could conceivably help out at the infield corners as well — and Walker only has three games to display his health for interested teams.

However, Walker is also earning a fairly significant $17.2MM in 2017 after accepting a qualifying offer from the Mets last offseason. That sizable contract has about $6.1MM that remains to be paid, so it’s very possible that Walker will clear revocable trade waivers in the month of August. Assuming he clears waivers, the Mets would be free to trade Walker to any team through season’s end, though he’d need to be moved on or before Aug. 31 in order to be postseason-eligible with a new team.

Trade Rumblings: Lynn, Darvish, Strickland, Johnson, Cubs, Blevins

By Steve Adams | July 28, 2017 at 4:53pm CDT

Teams around the league are waiting for the Cardinals to give a clear indication that they intend to trade right-hander Lance Lynn, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney. The impending free agent is among the most sought-after assets in a thin market for starting pitching, Olney adds. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch suggests, though, that the Cardinals haven’t exactly made Lynn’s availability a secret. St. Louis is “in the process of generating a market and offers” for Lynn, according to Goold, though they’re also still trying to acquire a bat to put in the middle of their lineup. Goold speculates that once Sonny Gray is finally traded, other clubs may then pivot to the Redbirds and make their best offer for Lynn, who hasn’t had any substantive talks with Cardinals brass about an extension. The Yankees have interest in Lynn, per Goold, who also notes that the Dodgers and Indians have scouted St. Louis recently. MLB.com’s Jon Morosi tweets that the Royals have also had recent talks with the Cardinals about Lynn.

More trade rumblings with the non-waiver deadline now less than 72 hours away…

Yu Darvish is still the Dodgers’ top target, but the team isn’t likely to surrender any of its “very top prospects” in order to pry him away from the Rangers, per Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports. The Dodgers view Sonny Gray as a fallback option for Darvish, who is also drawing interest from the Yankees, Cubs and Astros, according to Heyman.
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick tweets that the Giants are open to moving Hunter Strickland but feel that the vast number of relief options available on the trade market could prevent them from extracting max value. As such, San Francisco may simply elect to hold onto the 28-year-old with the intent of pairing him with Mark Melancon, a returning Will Smith and a seemingly rejuvenated Sam Dyson at the back of the bullpen in 2018. (On a somewhat related note, MLBTR recently ran down the trade market for right-handed relievers and for left-handed relievers.)
Also from Crasnick (Twitter link), the Braves are listening to offers for right-hander Jim Johnson, though they’re not actively trying to move the veteran, either. The 34-year-old is playing out the first season of a two-year, $10MM extension inked last October. He’s worked to a 4.10 ERA through 41 2/3 frames, albeit with a career-high 10.8 K/9 that has contributed to a more encouraging 3.21 SIERA mark. Johnson’s 50.5 percent ground-ball rate is the lowest of his career, though, and his 3.2 BB/9 represents his highest mark since a brutal 2014 season.
The Cubs have been oft-connected to Tigers catcher Alex Avila as they seek to acquire a more experienced backup option to young Willson Contreras, but MLB Network’s Ken Rosenthal tweets that Avila is one of many names on the Cubs’ list. He’s not a priority for the Cubs, per Rosenthal, who adds that Chicago is seeking more of a defense-first upgrade. MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro tweets that Chicago could be in on Marlins veteran A.J. Ellis as a possible option. Among the catchers that are likely to be available, Rene Rivera may well have the best defensive reputation.
Newsday’s Marc Carig tweets that teams have continued to call the Mets on the availability of left-hander Jerry Blevins, but GM Sandy Alderson and his staff aren’t keen on moving the 33-year-old. Blevins is viewed by the Mets as an important piece to the team’s 2018 plans, per Carig. Blevins is much more of a specialist than fellow southpaw trade candidates Justin Wilson and Brad Hand, having limited same-handed opponents to a putrid .173/.230/.185 batting line. Conversely, right-handed opponents have absolutely clobbered Blevins (.316/.469/.632) through 49 plate appearances. He’s earning $5.5MM i 2017 and has a $7MM club option for the 2018 campaign.

Position Player Market Notes: Granderson, Rays, Nats, Cards, Iglesias, Melky, Solarte

By Jeff Todd and Steve Adams | July 27, 2017 at 11:47pm CDT

Here’s the latest on the market for position players:

The Brewers have indicated some interest in veteran Mets outfielder Curtis Granderson, according to Ken Rosenthal of MLB Network (Twitter link). At this point, though, the sides don’t seem to have made any real progress toward a deal. The left-handed-hitting Granderson would add a new dimension to the lineup, which features a variety of right-handed outfield options.
As they continue to work on upgrading their roster, the Rays are willing to take trade offers for infielders Tim Beckham and Brad Miller, per ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter links). With the recent additions of Adeiny Hechavarria and now Lucas Duda, the Rays are perhaps a bit overstocked in infielders. Still, Tampa Bay is more interested in listening to potential offers than in shopping the pair around, Crasnick notes.
The Nationals have scouted Cardinals outfielder Tommy Pham along with reliever Trevor Rosenthal, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com (via Twitter). As ever, it’s hard to read too much into this sort of report, but it does seem notable that the Nats would be putting any thought into an outfielder at this point. While the team has dealt with injuries — highlighted by Adam Eaton but also including Jayson Werth, Michael Taylor, and others — indications of late have been that outfield additions wouldn’t be pursued in earnest.
In other news on infielders, there’s some belief around the game that the Tigers could find a trade partner for shortstop Jose Iglesias, per ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter link). That’s a bit surprising to hear, given the lack of demand among contenders, though Iglesias is a controllable player who’d be of possible interest to a variety of organizations even if a run at the postseason this year isn’t likely.
The White Sox have gotten “a little” interest in left fielder/designated hitter Melky Cabrera, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag tweets, though he also notes that the ChiSox would clearly need to pay down some of the remaining $5.4MM on Cabrera’s $15MM salary. CSN Chicago’s Chuck Garfien tweeted earlier today that GM Rick Hahn is willing to do just that, however, so perhaps a modest market could develop for the veteran switch-hitter’s services. After this morning’s Dan Jennings trade, Cabrera is one of the few plausible trade assets that remaining on a gutted White Sox roster. Struggling pitchers James Shields, Derek Holland, Mike Pelfrey, Miguel Gonzalez and Tyler Clippard all figure to be plenty available as well, though none carries much (if any) trade value.
Though it’s been more than a month since Padres infielder Yangervis Solarte suited up for a game, Rosenthal tweets not to rule out a trade. Solarte is embarking on a minor league rehab assignment this weekend and has drawn interest from other clubs, per Rosenthal. Solarte, 30, was San Diego’s hottest hitter in mid-June (.337/.427/.589, seven homers in 26 games/110 PAs) before incurring an oblique strain from which he has not yet returned. The switch-hitting Solarte can handle both second base and third base, and may even spend some time at short during his rehab, Dennis Lin of the San Diego Union-Tribune tweets. That versatility at the plate and in the field both looked highly marketable prior to his injury — as did his contract. Solarte is earning just $2.625MM this season with a $4.125MM salary in 2018 plus a pair of club options for 2019 ($5.5MM) and 2020 ($8MM).
Recent indications are that Mets infielder Asdrubal Cabrera will be dealt, and he’s still drawing interest from at least a trio of rivals, per Mike Puma of the New York Post (via Twitter). The odds that he’ll be targeted perhaps also increased with an injury suffered on Wednesday by Phillies infielder/outfielder Howie Kendrick. As MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki writes, Kendrick did not suffer a fracture when he was hit by a pitch on the hand. But it’s not yet known if he’ll miss time. Given that he has already missed two extended stretches with other health issues, Kendrick will perhaps need to reenter the lineup and show he’s at full speed to factor into the deadline shopping spree. (Even if he doesn’t, he’d be a candidate to move in August.)

Heyman’s Latest: Royals, Lynn, Gray, Rockies, Brewers

By Steve Adams | July 27, 2017 at 9:12pm CDT

In his Inside Baseball column today, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag takes a look at some of the most important remaining trade deadline scenarios. He also runs down some news and notes from both the American League and National League. Among the highlights with relevance to the trade market:

The Royals remain on the hunt for rotation help even after netting Trevor Cahill, Heyman writes. (That much may be evidenced by their apparent talks for Francisco Liriano, which are reportedly progressing.) Heyman notes that Kansas City even called the Athletics on Sonny Gray and the Rangers on Yu Darvish, though the team was realistic about the fact that it doesn’t have much of a chance of outbidding the competition for either player.
If the Cardinals ultimately make Lance Lynn available, the Yankees would have interest in the right-hander, though Sonny Gray remains New York’s top target. Lynn is a free agent at season’s end, and as such wouldn’t help fill any of the upcoming voids in the Yankees’ rotation after the 2017 season.
The Braves have scouted Gray more than any team in the league, per Heyman, though they’re not currently believed to be the favorite to land him. Heyman notes that the money saved in the Jaime Garcia deal could help facilitate the acquisition of Gray, which is a suggestion that has been made in recent days. It seems worth bearing in mind, though, that Gray is only earning $3.575MM in 2017. Plus, any financial crunch the Braves had would only have been present due to the fact that the team acquired Garcia (and Bartolo Colon and R.A. Dickey) as stopgaps in the first place.
Starting pitching remains a target area for the Rockies after picking up Pat Neshek in a trade, and Colorado even considered Darvish as an option, though the Rockies are unsurprisingly on Darvish’s no-trade list. (That’s not a knock on the Rockies by any means, but I’d imagine that most pitchers, if given the opportunity, would want to safeguard themselves from being traded to pitch at Coors Field.)
Brewers owner Mark Attanasio is more willing to part with top prospects in order to land Sonny Gray than his front office is, according to Heyman. General manager David Stearns and his staff are reluctant to part with the club’s very top prospects, and Attanasio has been deferring to the preferences of his baseball operations staff. The Athletics are eyeing center field prospect Lewis Brinson, Heyman continues, but it seems that the Brewers’ front office isn’t keen on parting with that level of talent.
It’s been reported that the Mets are likely to hang onto lefty Jerry Blevins, and Heyman notes that GM Sandy Alderson’s rationale is that if he traded Blevins, he’d merely be looking to fill that void with a free agent in a market where most relievers will enter the offseason seeking three-year deals. (Of course, that logic could also be used to argue that Blevins’ value is all the higher, and the Mets managed to pick up Blevins on a one-year guarantee even though he reportedly sought three years himself early last offseason. Boone Logan, who also signed a one-year deal in Cleveland, was also reportedly seeking three at one point.)

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